[Continuation] The Russian Invasion of Ukraine (3)

[shemp]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Maybe that's because pretty much everyone you read has an agenda to make Russia look bad while having no clue about their military objectives.

Seems like Putin has no clue about them either.

[shemp]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

so their military objective is to a lose a missile cruiser, hundreds and hundreds of tanks and tens of thousands of soldiers?

You are correct - their are right on track !

Indeed, Russia's winning the war!

[llwyd]

Well, Boris is kindly visiting Helsinki today and offering security guarantees (well, assurances) for the application period. Tomorrow the president and the prime minister will jointly announce that they support the membership. And then this coming Monday or Tuesday Finland and Sweden will jointly apply for Nato membership. This went really hugely well for Putin...

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by EaglePuncher

Yeah, like a youtube video, right?

Wow, that's just stupid. I mean, monumentally stupid.

YouTube is a platform, not a source. The source is whoever posted the video on YouTube.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Wow, that's just stupid. I mean, monumentally stupid.

YouTube is a platform, not a source. The source is whoever posted the video on YouTube.

Exactly

Here's a YouTube video from 2 months ago saying that even if Russia had captured Ukraine, that wasn't the same as holding it - and holding it was gooing to be difficult

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I'm not going to bother trying to defend any sources you won't even specify. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that someone in this thread used a source that was even worse than Moon of Alabama.

But it's not really relevant. A source's usefulness should be able to stand on its own, and yours doesn't. Their track record is complete garbage. They can't even acknowledge having been wrong about anything.

And neither can you.

I'm pretty sure that b has reflected on his previous views frequently. But I won't look it up for you. Because what you do is just window dressing. You never hold the "other side" accountable. I'm talking the tea leaves readers at the usual junk sources (BBC, CNN, Guardian etc). Shouldn't "Putin" have declared victory yesterday?

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Off topic content

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Maybe that's because pretty much everyone you read has an agenda to make Russia look bad while having no clue about their military objectives.

Would you care to state for the record what Russia's military objectives are ?

They seem to have changed significantly since the start of the invasion - unsurprisingly because with each Russian reversal, they seem to be scaled back.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by The Don

Would you care to state for the record what Russia's military objectives are ?

They seem to have changed significantly since the start of the invasion - unsurprisingly because with each Russian reversal, they seem to be scaled back.

Clearly they are making room for new tanks in their bases. They were full and they were like "well we either have to use these tanks up or scrap them" so they invaded ukraine.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by The Don

Would you care to state for the record what Russia's military objectives are ?

They seem to have changed significantly since the start of the invasion - unsurprisingly because with each Russian reversal, they seem to be scaled back.

I, like you and your "sources", have no idea.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by The Don

Would you care to state for the record what Russia's military objectives are ?

They seem to have changed significantly since the start of the invasion - unsurprisingly because with each Russian reversal, they seem to be scaled back.

Standard Negotiation Tactic: you start with a Big Demand, like the entire country, so that at the end of the negotiation you won't get thrown in jail as a war criminal.

[Jack by the hedge]

It's a test of faith. Since February Putin has been seeking out new and creative ways to punch himself in the cock at every turn. And it's all a test to see if the true believers can still bring themselves to say it's certainly all going to plan and oh, look a squirrel.

Going great so far, it seems.

[Ziggurat]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'm pretty sure that b has reflected on his previous views frequently.

I see no evidence of that.

Quote:

You never hold the "other side" accountable. I'm talking the tea leaves readers at the usual junk sources (BBC, CNN, Guardian etc). Shouldn't "Putin" have declared victory yesterday?

I don't pay attention to the BBC, CNN, or the Guardian. I especially don't pay attention to any predictions they might make. Am I Fisking you harder than other posters? Perhaps. You've been shilling for Putin, and that caught my attention. If that's unfair, so be it. Nevertheless, your source is still garbage, and your arguments based on that source are likewise garbage. That will remain true no matter how many other posts here may be garbage as well.

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Removed moderated content and response to such.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

[...] your arguments based on that source are likewise garbage.

I don't think I have made a single argument based on b's analysis. Maybe on his well-sourced facts. Remember that I earned the title of "no-claimer" a long time ago on another topic?

I post these links in a time of intensive censorship where "the common people" have a hard time to come across views countering the "narrative". They can take it, they can leave it.

[crescent]

The Russian propaganda/disinfo thing is weirder than usual today. They are claiming that the British took heavy casualties trying to take Snake Island from the Russians, and that multiple British and American officers have been captured or killed there.

It's like a fiction writers workshop. A really, really bad fiction writers workshop.

Another one, and another one.

Dozens more like that on twitter.

They like to set their accounts so that only people who follow them or are mentioned by them can reply.

[jimbob]

Back on topic

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Originally Posted by theprestige

The thread is claims to explicitly that they're using an advanced and innovative system completely unlike the current US system.

Also, as far as I read, it was about tasking, not maneuver. It is about the time between target selection and initiating the fire mission. Not only about the time between fire mission and repositioning

US systems can have fire on target within seconds if the rules of engagement allow it.

Even we trained for it back in the 80s with the same system as was used from WW2.
We put a FOO ashore and he has a direct radio link with 'Guns' in the Ops room. We could have rounds down range within seconds of getting a fire order.
Probably faster than regular artillery can do it. Our guns were in fast training powered turrets and semi automatic in operation.

I think he's over thinking it.

He seemed to have some insight into maintenance and tyres, but now seems to be putting out a lot of clickbait-ish threads. So it's possibly trying for attention.

[Childlike Empress]

edit: ok, back on topic

[I Am The Scum]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

so their military objective is to a lose a missile cruiser, hundreds and hundreds of tanks and tens of thousands of soldiers?

You are correct - their are right on track !

Ever heard of psychological warfare? Those Ukrainian soldiers are gonna feel really bad about completely dominating a pathetic, inferior enemy. Within 20 years, the therapy bills will completely bankrupt the Ukrainian economy... and then phase 2 begins.

(This prediction is far more accurate than anything CE has posted)

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by crescent

The Russian propaganda/disinfo thing is weirder than usual today. They are claiming that the British took heavy casualties trying to take Snake Island from the Russians, and that multiple British and American officers have been captured or killed there.

It's like a fiction writers workshop. A really, really bad fiction writers workshop.

Another one, and another one.

Dozens more like that on twitter.

They like to set their accounts so that only people who follow them or are mentioned by them can reply.

First wave? how big does the poster think that island is?

3 corvette assault vessels lost?

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

First wave? how big does the poster think that island is?

I think we should quote these

Quote:

The British plan to retake #SnakeIsland failed miserably with the western allies losing 4 fighter jets, 4 helicopters, 29 drones and 3 corvette assault vessels, losing 50 troops including pilots
the wounded British may resort to something far more deadly
#WWIII #NuclearWar

Quote:

According source in the General Staff, an #American marine lieutenant colonel, as well as an #English major from the commando brigade of the marine corps, landed on #SnakeIsland together with #Ukrainian fighters.

Quote:

🇷🇺🇺🇦 On #SnakeIsland, #English and #American high-ranking officers disappeared during the landing. For their sake, the #Ukrainian military fought for two days. But it was not possible to return the officers, or at least their bodies

Just

Wow

Or

Quote:

It's like a fiction writers workshop. A really, really bad fiction writers workshop.

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

this

the difference being that India wants Russia on its side in a conflict with China, whereas China just want Russia to stay out of any conflict with India.
Oh, and Russia is just the junior partner in the relationship with China, as my Avatar is supposed to symbolize.

At this point India should be asking itself why it would want that.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I think we should quote these

Just

Wow

Or

That whole thing about the Moskva's sinking and that video footage about the pummeling the russian troops received at the snake island must have really hurt bad.

ETA: I do wonder though, when we will see the first claims about shot down Vril Reichsflugscheiben or some such.

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by lomiller

At this point India should be asking itself why it would want that.

They might at least make China waste some ammo.

[Jimbo07]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Besides, India and China are not Russia’s friends and if they are egging him on he would be a fool to think they are doing so because of moral support.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Xi and Modi are allies of convenience...

And given that Xi and Modi are themselves enemies of each other, it should be quite obvious that this isn't a trinity that will actually hold long term.

Originally Posted by lomiller

At this point India should be asking itself why it would want that.

I've been trying to read up and figure out what India's angle is. Aren't they a West/Eastern/Anglo "democracy"? From what I can figure out, it boils down to a few factors:
- India is afraid of China
- They see Russia as a counterbalance to China in the region
- The US is too far away to help, if the balloon goes up suddenly
- They're also mad that the US hasn't always been a rabid enemy of Pakistan
- Even so, the US is trying to draw India into its sphere by selling them more weapons (F-18s for the carriers, etc.), and draw down the Russian arms influence

Since India's two main concerns are border conflicts with Pakistan and China, and no land bridge to the US for help, it winds up in a strange situation where India is currently giving tacit support simultaneously to both China and Russia! Add in that China doesn't particularly care for Liberal Democracy, and politics has made strange bedfellows.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Jimbo07

I've been trying to read up and figure out what India's angle is. Aren't they a West/Eastern/Anglo "democracy"? From what I can figure out, it boils down to a few factors:
- India is afraid of China
- They see Russia as a counterbalance to China in the region
- The US is too far away to help, if the balloon goes up suddenly
- They're also mad that the US hasn't always been a rabid enemy of Pakistan
- Even so, the US is trying to draw India into its sphere by selling them more weapons (F-18s for the carriers, etc.), and draw down the Russian arms influence

Since India's two main concerns are border conflicts with Pakistan and China, and no land bridge to the US for help, it winds up in a strange situation where India is currently giving tacit support simultaneously to both China and Russia! Add in that China doesn't particularly care for Liberal Democracy, and politics has made strange bedfellows.

All that - plus:
- India buys a lot of military hardware from Russia. India benefits from Russian defense R&D spending that way.
- India seems to be tilting away from being democratic.
- India still hasn't forgiven the U.S. for betting on the wrong horse during the Bangladeshi independence war (1971). The hammer forgets, but the nail remembers.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by crescent

All that - plus:
- India buys a lot of military hardware from Russia. India benefits from Russian defense R&D spending that way.

You would think the war in Ukraine would make them think twice about their defence spending on Russian equipment.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You would think the war in Ukraine would make them think twice about their defence spending choices.

They did cancel a purchase of some helicopters not long after this started. The stated reason was to focus on building up Indian domestic manufacturing - but the timing and context makes one suspicious.

I think a lot of India's stance is just tradition. Many Indian political parties have had a Russian-lean for a long time, despite the democracy/dictatorship divide.

[Craig4]

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...414c159c824b5d

Great news. The Ukrainians destroyed two pontoon bridges the Russian gangsters built to continue their unlawful invasion. It appears that the Ukrainians were able to to time their strike to destroy the bridge while the Russian gangsters had vehicles on it. By my count, the Ukrainians destroyed four tanks so that's about a dozen Russian criminals dead. A great day for freedom and Ukraine.

In other good news. The Ukrainians advanced close enough to take Belgorod under fire with US supplied artillery. Belgorod is a key hub supporting the Russian gangsters invading Ukraine. The more Russians gangsters the Ukrainians kill there, the fewer they have to kill in Ukraine. More great news. I'm proud that through my tax dollars, I have Russian blood on my hands up to my elbows.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by Craig4

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...414c159c824b5d

Great news. The Ukrainians destroyed two pontoon bridges the Russian gangsters built to continue their unlawful invasion. It appears that the Ukrainians were able to to time their strike to destroy the bridge while the Russian gangsters had vehicles on it. By my count, the Ukrainians destroyed four tanks so that's about a dozen Russian criminals dead. A great day for freedom and Ukraine.

It was much worse than that:

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...13089579511808Six tanks, 14 BMPs, 7 MT-LBs, a tugboat, and five other armored vehicles.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...73487955484675: Plus three more BMPs, "some transport trucks" and the bridging equipment itself.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...80592288653313: Another tank and three more BMPs documented

Added up:
7 tanks
20 BMPs
7 MT-LBs
5 other assorted armored vehicles
two pontoon bridges
Assorted trucks
A pontoon engineering boat

That's just what's visible - right there in those twitter links, anyone can see for themselves. There might be more under the water or hidden by the tree canopy. That's more than half a Battalion Tactical Group's equipment. Some seems intact but is on the Ukrainian-controlled side of the river, albeit in a no-man's land. All in the space of probably just a few hours or less. No bodies visible in the imagery. There is a suggestion that once artillery started hitting near the bridges, the troops used what was left of the bridges to run back across to the Russian-controlled side - or swam. Or tried to swim.

Russia is still gaining ground in Donbas, but they're taking very heavy casualties in the process. Time will tell if they can sustain that or even put up any sort of defense much longer.

[TJM]

Originally Posted by crescent

Added up:
7 tanks
20 BMPs
7 MT-LBs
5 other assorted armored vehicles
two pontoon bridges
Assorted trucks
A pontoon engineering boat

To be fair, Russian forces shot a missile that managed to take out a key Ukrainian tractor - it's thought to be responsible for several Russian tank abductions since the onset of hostilities and as one can clearly see, its subversive tank-towing days are no more.



https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/11-may...eld-in-kharkiv

Russia stronk!

[crescent]

Originally Posted by crescent

It was much worse than that:

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...13089579511808Six tanks, 14 BMPs, 7 MT-LBs, a tugboat, and five other armored vehicles.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...73487955484675: Plus three more BMPs, "some transport trucks" and the bridging equipment itself.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...80592288653313: Another tank and three more BMPs documented

Added up:
7 tanks
20 BMPs
7 MT-LBs
5 other assorted armored vehicles
two pontoon bridges
Assorted trucks
A pontoon engineering boat

This guy went through the pics and marked 58 destroyed or abandoned vehicles at the bridge site. And a "tactical canoe":

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...13089579511808 (tweet seems to be in Polish but I used the Universal Translator/Google Translate.)

ETA: And in replies to the tweet, four more are marked. 61 vehicles documented, plus a dozen or more pontoon segments.

Russia had previously claimed to have built four bridges across that river, and this shows at least two and maybe a third one right next to each other and destroyed. Some commenters suggest that it appears that the Russians backed some of the vehicles into the water to protect them from side-hitting weapons. That seems odd to me as it was artillery fire that took them out. But I'm not a military guy, maybe they knew something I don't.

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by Craig4

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...414c159c824b5d

Great news. The Ukrainians destroyed two pontoon bridges the Russian gangsters built to continue their unlawful invasion. It appears that the Ukrainians were able to to time their strike to destroy the bridge while the Russian gangsters had vehicles on it. By my count, the Ukrainians destroyed four tanks so that's about a dozen Russian criminals dead. A great day for freedom and Ukraine.

In other good news. The Ukrainians advanced close enough to take Belgorod under fire with US supplied artillery. Belgorod is a key hub supporting the Russian gangsters invading Ukraine. The more Russians gangsters the Ukrainians kill there, the fewer they have to kill in Ukraine. More great news. I'm proud that through my tax dollars, I have Russian blood on my hands up to my elbows.

Just to poke at one of the bridging attempts that Ukraine stopped -

Quote:

Russian forces sustained remarkable losses from the failed bridging attempt over the Siverskyi Donets River.

We count 6x T-72B-series MBT, 14x BMP-1/2 variants, 7x MT-LB, a tugboat & 5+ other armoured vehicles destroyed/abandoned/damaged. Note precise ID is very hard.

ETA: Oops. Ninja'd. Good job, crescent.

[arthwollipot]

There's some pretty cool footage out there showing Russian tank turrets being launched into orbit.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by crescent

It was much worse than that:

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...13089579511808Six tanks, 14 BMPs, 7 MT-LBs, a tugboat, and five other armored vehicles.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...73487955484675: Plus three more BMPs, "some transport trucks" and the bridging equipment itself.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...80592288653313: Another tank and three more BMPs documented

Added up:
7 tanks
20 BMPs
7 MT-LBs
5 other assorted armored vehicles
two pontoon bridges
Assorted trucks
A pontoon engineering boat

That's just what's visible - right there in those twitter links, anyone can see for themselves. There might be more under the water or hidden by the tree canopy. That's more than half a Battalion Tactical Group's equipment. Some seems intact but is on the Ukrainian-controlled side of the river, albeit in a no-man's land. All in the space of probably just a few hours or less. No bodies visible in the imagery. There is a suggestion that once artillery started hitting near the bridges, the troops used what was left of the bridges to run back across to the Russian-controlled side - or swam. Or tried to swim.

Russia is still gaining ground in Donbas, but they're taking very heavy casualties in the process. Time will tell if they can sustain that or even put up any sort of defense much longer.

I'm glad I was wrong in saying it was four tanks. That's a much better figure.

[Klimax]

So far, Russian advances in Donbas are slower than snail in Saharan desert.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Klimax

So far, Russian advances in Donbas are slower than snail in Saharan desert.

And literally every source except for the Russian ones are reporting that.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Well, there are three things where Russia is clearly superior.
1: The willingness to sacrifice it's own soldiers to stroke the ego of a single man, regardless of how many families lose a son or daughter.
2: The willingness to inflict civilian casualities.
3: The ability to turn neutral countries into NATO members. I mean, Putin managed to make Finland overturn 70+ years of neutrality in 3 months time. That's a win I guess.

[jimbob]

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...48245539393539

Thread pointing out that the Russian AFV that was destroyed here was well behind the Russian lines and where they probably would have considered safe.

Beau of the Fifth Column has pointed out that Afghanistan is not really the best analogue, but Vietnam, where there was an effective conventional force as well as irregular forces facing off against the more powerful conventional force.

[Nessie]

Russian soldiers shoot unarmed civilians

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61425025

Caught on CCTV.

[crescent]

Russian state controlled media suggests that Russia can withdraw recognition of Lithuania as an independent nation. The article suggests that such an action (or the threat thereof) would cause Lithuania to "turn back" and abandon insulting words targeting Russia and its actions (like referring to the planned elimination of Ukrainian culture as genocide).

https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1524723270674698240/photo/1

Proof once again that Russia continues to be NATOs greatest cheerleader.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I think we should quote these

Just

Wow

Or

29 drones? That makes no sense. And what even are amphibious assault corvettes? At least when western propaganda lists Russian losses, it lists types the Russians actually have, in numbers reasonably expected in the area.