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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 9th February 2019, 06:30 PM   #4521
Marcus
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
What is more contemptible behaviour, to keep a fraud going or accuse someone of fraud who is not engaged in fraud? That's a tough one.

The latest BLP video of the SunCell was released yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uic25ZGeMMQ

Half of the sphere is bright cherry red by 20 seconds. Input power is from capacitors. Guesstimating a mass of the sphere to be about 25 kg and assuming an iron like specific heat, and knowing that the bright cherry colour occurs about 800C, and assuming the other dark half is about 400C and the starting temp was 20C, I arrive at a power output of 325kW delivered over 20 seconds.
Didn't you promise to give it up and admit you were wrong right about now if no products were forthcoming?
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:43 PM   #4522
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Didn't you promise to give it up and admit you were wrong right about now if no products were forthcoming?
The promise was:

Originally Posted by Markie View Post
I promise to come back and eat humble pie before you, without a fork.
I expect to see a video.
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:46 PM   #4523
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
The promise was:
I expect to see a video.
That's not the promise he made for this month. That one hasn't expired yet.

Quote:
If there no satisfactorily proven, working prototype in 48 months, I promise to come back and eat humble pie before you, without a fork. My Google Calendar for Friday, February 26th 2021 now has an entry.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1693
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:54 PM   #4524
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That's not the promise he made for this month. That one hasn't expired yet.
The date was later revised:

Originally Posted by markie View Post
The entry on Tuesday, Feb 26 2019 of my Google Calendar reads:

"Visit International Skeptics Forum and Eat Humble Pie if prototype SunCell is not proven to work."
Same promise (except for the lack of a fork.)

Added: Humble Pie Recipe

Last edited by jrhowell; 9th February 2019 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 9th February 2019, 07:02 PM   #4525
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Oh, didn't know that. I thought he'd set a different goal for this month. Thanks.
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Old 10th February 2019, 02:20 AM   #4526
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post

I want to eat humble pie too! That looks delicious.

I offer to eat my hat and I even offered to eat crow if I was proven wrong!

Somehow I got hornswaggled into a rip off!
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Old 10th February 2019, 11:14 AM   #4527
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
It would have to be really solid capacitor bank to deliver this much energy. Why bother ? Imho it's simple propane burner inside, above the ball. Exhaust is taken from bottom.
That explains the 'shadow' under the pipe going in. The pipe is continuing inside, blocking the hot gas from contact with the wall. It clearly demonstrates the heat is coming from up, and is in gas form.
Don't think it is a fraud in that sense. I'm sure he is producing arcs and probably plasma but it's like Red Baron Farms has described several times: you can produce plasma etc. doesn't mean you are producing excess energy.

He will probably for many more years remain needing just one more engineering kink to be straightened out and then the generator will start to produce excess power. Remember his background is the "over unity" community.
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Old 10th February 2019, 11:15 AM   #4528
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
The date was later revised:



Same promise (except for the lack of a fork.)

Added: Humble Pie Recipe
OK, OK, you found me and my pie out. While confessing I may as well say there will be a large serving of pralines and cream ice cream placed beside my pie, making a fork rather superfluous when a single spoon will do.
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Old 10th February 2019, 11:26 AM   #4529
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
What is more contemptible behaviour, to keep a fraud going or accuse someone of fraud who is not engaged in fraud? That's a tough one.

The latest BLP video of the SunCell was released yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uic25ZGeMMQ

Half of the sphere is bright cherry red by 20 seconds. Input power is from capacitors. Guesstimating a mass of the sphere to be about 25 kg and assuming an iron like specific heat, and knowing that the bright cherry colour occurs about 800C, and assuming the other dark half is about 400C and the starting temp was 20C, I arrive at a power output of 325kW delivered over 20 seconds.
I've since discovered that the sphere is probably just 10kg. So my 325kW will have to be adjusted down to 325*(10/25)kW = 130kW. And now a further refinement : Assuming an emissivity of .4 for the spherical surface, there will be an average of about 80kW in radiative power loss over the span of 20 seconds, putting the power output more appropriately to about 200kW.
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Old 10th February 2019, 12:04 PM   #4530
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've since discovered that the sphere is probably just 10kg. So my 325kW will have to be adjusted down to 325*(10/25)kW = 130kW. And now a further refinement : Assuming an emissivity of .4 for the spherical surface, there will be an average of about 80kW in radiative power loss over the span of 20 seconds, putting the power output more appropriately to about 200kW.
markie, the video is a waste of time since it's a fraud.

How much Product Hydrino® “in a bottle” did BLP sell last year? Why didn't Mills prove to the world that hydrinos exist by simply showing them as he promised BLP would do a year ago? He's been claiming to be able to produce this stuff for at least a decade now. He's been claiming to have hydrino compounds for years. Last year, about this time, he said BLPs goal was to show them to the world in 2018. He also claimed to have Product Hydrino® “in a bottle".

And think back to the start of this scam in the last century. Mills stated reasons for pursuing this was to finance his cure for cancer, heart disease, herpes, and several other diseases. He also had a separate claim of a cheap imaging device that would revolutionize early detection of a wide range of conditions.

If Mills' claims over the past decade are true then Mills' has allowed a lot of needless deaths by not cashing out. He shouldn't be wasting his time trying to do whatever it is that is holding him up. Let other people do that. His discovery of the hydrino alone wold be worth billions.

But only if it weren't a huge pack of lies.
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Old 10th February 2019, 12:57 PM   #4531
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Exclamation markie fantasizes about a video of a cell blowing up yet again

Originally Posted by markie View Post
What is more contemptible behaviour, to keep a fraud going or accuse someone of fraud who is not engaged in fraud? That's a tough one.
Not really tough, markie. When a person promises something extraordinary for almost 30 years and fails several times to deliver it then they are either a fraud or deluded. Now we have probably yet another failure.
Some people here say fraud because Mills is getting money for his failures. I look at his ignorant, deluded and lying book and say deluded.

markie fantasizes about a video of a cell blowing up yet again!

Some basic science for you, markie.
A company propaganda video is not science.

What makes a power cell into a power cell is releasing more energy than it takes in. If Mills' SunCell releases X kW that does not mean anything if Mills powered it with >X kW.

Even if Mills has an actual power cell, this does not mean that it is economical, especially since it tends to blow up !

Even if Mills has a economical power cell, this does not mean that his hydrino delusion exists. It is more probable that chemical reaction(s) are causing the excess heat. Mills being a fraud or deluded or ignorant prevents him from finding those chemical reaction(s).

ETA: The idiocy of a video that is just a way to heat up a SunCell with a bank of capacitors! A small lie - the sphere with an unstated composition is red for about 10 seconds. Its temperature before then is unknown. Its temperature for the last 10 seconds is a guess.

Last edited by Reality Check; 10th February 2019 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:58 AM   #4532
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
ETA: The idiocy of a video that is just a way to heat up a SunCell with a bank of capacitors! A small lie - the sphere with an unstated composition is red for about 10 seconds. Its temperature before then is unknown. Its temperature for the last 10 seconds is a guess.
Videos like this serve only one purpose -- to keep the faithful in line, and maybe find a sucker for the next funding round.

Why did they need super-capacitors to provide the energy? Well, it is because they probably needed the 200KW that markie calculated (or something similar). Who knows what is in the gas, or how it reacts with what is in the chamber. The gas could be providing the extra energy OR the plasma created could have nothing to do with the energy. It could all be electrical, and the plasma is actually a way of moving energy to the surroundings quickly (energy transfer is a cooling for the electrodes).

I noticed a pressure gauge reading 35 or 40 PSI (and bouncing around a lot), right along the main input pipe. This could be quite a high rate of gas flow -- lots of fuel, if that is what they are using it for.

We also can't be sure that the video is running at real-time rate.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:02 AM   #4533
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Oh, didn't know that. I thought he'd set a different goal for this month. Thanks.
Entirely forgivable. The goal posts are rocket propelled at this point. The claim du jour will be different tomorrow.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:20 AM   #4534
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Entirely forgivable. The goal posts are rocket propelled at this point. The claim du jour will be different tomorrow.
I think we can expect with some certainty that, on the 26th February, markie will claim that the prototype SunCell has been proven to work to his personal satisfaction, and that therefore he wins. That will then buy him another six months of referring back to his own declaration before pointing out that the object shown to be doing something six months previously was not in fact a prototype of a fully marketable device, and a considerable amount of additional engineering will be needed before a commercial release is likely. No doubt there will be some peripheral part of the technology that, although a solved engineering problem for a century or so, is slightly beyond the ability of BLP to adapt to their surprisingly unique requirements.

tl;dr version: Rinse and repeat.

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Old 11th February 2019, 08:45 AM   #4535
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've since discovered that the sphere is probably just 10kg. So my 325kW will have to be adjusted down to 325*(10/25)kW = 130kW. And now a further refinement : Assuming an emissivity of .4 for the spherical surface, there will be an average of about 80kW in radiative power loss over the span of 20 seconds, putting the power output more appropriately to about 200kW.

What's the power input?

Why are you still assuming the video starts with the apparatus at room temperature, when the thing is already running at the start of the video?

Given that the arc is high current at low voltage, what do you think the capacitors are for?
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:26 AM   #4536
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Imho it's completely fake. It's all just theater. There are no capacitors. That's expensive. Dangerous. All you want is video of red glow ball. Burner will do it. If there is any electricity, it's electricity for igniting the burner.

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Old 11th February 2019, 09:40 AM   #4537
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Originally Posted by markie View Post
What is more contemptible behaviour, to keep a fraud going or accuse someone of fraud who is not engaged in fraud? That's a tough one.
Well in the case of Mills and his fanboys, it's keeping a fraud going.

Originally Posted by markie View Post
The latest BLP video of the SunCell was released yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uic25ZGeMMQ
Wow... More nonsensical crap.

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Half of the sphere is bright cherry red by 20 seconds. Input power is from capacitors. Guesstimating a mass of the sphere to be about 25 kg and assuming an iron like specific heat, and knowing that the bright cherry colour occurs about 800C, and assuming the other dark half is about 400C and the starting temp was 20C, I arrive at a power output of 325kW delivered over 20 seconds.
Og good grief, you have absolutely no idea, do you?

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And these figures come from where?
I believe answering that would breach the MA...

Originally Posted by markie View Post
I've since discovered that the sphere is probably just 10kg. So my 325kW will have to be adjusted down to 325*(10/25)kW = 130kW. And now a further refinement : Assuming an emissivity of .4 for the spherical surface, there will be an average of about 80kW in radiative power loss over the span of 20 seconds, putting the power output more appropriately to about 200kW.
You have no idea about science do you?
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Old 11th February 2019, 11:22 AM   #4538
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

You have no idea about science do you?
Worse still neither does Mills.
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Old 11th February 2019, 11:52 AM   #4539
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I think we can expect with some certainty that, on the 26th February, markie will claim that the prototype SunCell has been proven to work to his personal satisfaction, and that therefore he wins.
He was asked at the time for the criteria for a working device and he stated:

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Read the context - closed loop. No connection to the grid. That should be good enough for you.
So far even Mills isn't claiming to have that.

(Though of course markie could claim that the capacitors are only charged from the grid ahead of time and are not connected at the time the device is briefly running.)

Last edited by jrhowell; 11th February 2019 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 12:39 PM   #4540
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An idea occurred to me of where Mills might be going next.

Mills has been careful with his claims, staying just barely within the realm of plausibly mistaken results. I had been thinking that he would never claim to have a self-runner because that would eventually be shown to be trickery of some sort.

But what if he claimed to have a working self-running prototype, but with just one minor flaw: leakage causing it to consume hydrogen at a higher rate than expected. He could explain it away as a minor engineering problem that could be solved with just a bit more funding. That could work as long as he is careful not to disclose exactly how much extra hydrogen it actually takes to keep the device running.
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Old 11th February 2019, 01:39 PM   #4541
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Originally Posted by HappySkeptic99 View Post
I think it is likely that Mills believes his own theories,
Based on what?

The science on manipulative people demonstrates otherwise.

A guy who buys chicken liver in order to pretend he is pulling cancer out of a cancer victim does not believe he is healing them.

A person using electronics to "hear" prayer requests or whatever knows damned well his electronics, not superpowers, are doing the job.

Etc. Nobody knows better than the manipulative person himself that he is completely full of ****.
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Old 11th February 2019, 01:44 PM   #4542
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Mills has been careful with his claims, staying just barely within the realm of plausibly mistaken results. I had been thinking that he would never claim to have a self-runner because that would eventually be shown to be trickery of some sort.
That doesn't pan out because he's actually claiming to have a product he can sell.

'Product Hydrino® “in a bottle” identified by multiple analytical methods'

Announced in a quarterly report a year ago. Not getting much response from the Mills supporters about why there are no reports of sale or glowing reviews from the customers who've purchased it. He also claimed he was going to show the world the hydrino compounds he's been claiming to have for about a decade, maybe more. Not getting much explanation about how he failed to do such a simple thing since he's been claiming to actually them in the report.. Even included pictures of them. They look cotton candy'ish.
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:15 PM   #4543
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
An idea occurred to me of where Mills might be going next.

Mills has been careful with his claims, staying just barely within the realm of plausibly mistaken results. I had been thinking that he would never claim to have a self-runner because that would eventually be shown to be trickery of some sort.

But what if he claimed to have a working self-running prototype, but with just one minor flaw: leakage causing it to consume hydrogen at a higher rate than expected. He could explain it away as a minor engineering problem that could be solved with just a bit more funding. That could work as long as he is careful not to disclose exactly how much extra hydrogen it actually takes to keep the device running.
Generally the approach seems to be something perhaps read by someone recently. For example the concentrator photovoltaics shtick, someone might have read how efficient they can be so the 'suncell' centered on them. Evidently without understanding how and why they work so efficiently. Same with the purported MHD approach from one of the recent reports. Looks like someone read about an MHD generator and made up some drawings that indicate a lack of understanding about how such generators work.

So what's the latest buzz word technology going around?

http://www.rh.gatech.edu/features/12...p-power-future

Seeback generators (thermoelectric generator) may be the next buzzword tech for mills.


http://news.mit.edu/2018/topological...ectricity-0117

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ion_Technology


While 5-8 % efficient it's in the range of the suncell where you harvest only 1/4 of the energy with a 33% efficient device.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:13 PM   #4544
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I always thought this is based on the good old cold fusion ..
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:18 PM   #4545
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I always thought this is based on the good old cold fusion ..
I think it is more like Mills and proponents think the purported "cold fusion" results were based on hydrinos.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:59 PM   #4546
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Based on what?

The science on manipulative people demonstrates otherwise.

A guy who buys chicken liver in order to pretend he is pulling cancer out of a cancer victim does not believe he is healing them.

A person using electronics to "hear" prayer requests or whatever knows damned well his electronics, not superpowers, are doing the job.

Etc. Nobody knows better than the manipulative person himself that he is completely full of ****.
Very good point. Needs repeating, hence the quote.



Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Generally the approach seems to be something perhaps read by someone recently. For example the concentrator photovoltaics shtick, someone might have read how efficient they can be so the 'suncell' centered on them. Evidently without understanding how and why they work so efficiently. Same with the purported MHD approach from one of the recent reports. Looks like someone read about an MHD generator and made up some drawings that indicate a lack of understanding about how such generators work.

So what's the latest buzz word technology going around?

http://www.rh.gatech.edu/features/12...p-power-future

Seeback generators (thermoelectric generator) may be the next buzzword tech for mills.


http://news.mit.edu/2018/topological...ectricity-0117

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ion_Technology


While 5-8 % efficient it's in the range of the suncell where you harvest only 1/4 of the energy with a 33% efficient device.
Wouldn't the "dark matter" buzz also fit in there somewhere?
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Old 11th February 2019, 06:56 PM   #4547
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
That doesn't pan out because he's actually claiming to have a product he can sell.

'Product Hydrino® “in a bottle” identified by multiple analytical methods'
Announced, but never delivered, like many Mills promises over the years. As long as he doesn’t actually try to sell any fake hydrinos he is in the clear.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:17 PM   #4548
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Announced, but never delivered, like many Mills promises over the years. As long as he doesn’t actually try to sell any fake hydrinos he is in the clear.
I have no idea what possess Mills' fans to excuse his obvious lies. What excuses do you make for the money he has ripped off from investors.?
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:38 PM   #4549
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I have no idea what possess Mills' fans to excuse his obvious lies. What excuses do you make for the money he has ripped off from investors.?
I do not excuse his behavior. I just believe that he is canny enough to avoid prosecution.
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:42 PM   #4550
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I do not excuse his behavior. I just believe that he is canny enough to avoid prosecution.

You just said he was in the clear. Is he in the clear or not?
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Old 11th February 2019, 07:52 PM   #4551
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You just said he was in the clear. Is he in the clear or not?
I think he is a successful scammer. He may very well be in the clear legally.

Added: saying that they plan to sell something is a forward looking statement. I don’t believe that investors have any recourse if they (BLP) fail to accomplish their goals.

Last edited by jrhowell; 11th February 2019 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:00 PM   #4552
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I think he is a successful scammer. He may very well be in the clear legally.
Could you possibly be more confusing then? Most definitions of scam would imply an illegal fraud. And most definitions of "in the clear" would imply he's neither guilty of illegal or even legal trickery. Don't say that.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:09 PM   #4553
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Could you possibly be more confusing then? Most definitions of scam would imply an illegal fraud. And most definitions of "in the clear" would imply he's neither guilty of illegal or even legal trickery. Don't say that.
The law is imperfect. I believe that it is possible to behave dishonesty and trick people out of money while staying within the limits of the law. Mills may have managed to do that. In the end it will be up to investors to sue him and make their case in court if they think they have one.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:16 PM   #4554
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
The law is imperfect. I believe that it is possible to behave dishonesty and trick people out of money while staying within the limits of the law. Mills may have managed to do that. In the end it will be up to investors to sue him and make their case in court if they think they have one.
Well, that's all nice. But if you actually believe the guy is a scammer could you before more careful about posting things that say he isn't?
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:27 PM   #4555
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Well, that's all nice. But if you actually believe the guy is a scammer could you before more careful about posting things that say he isn't?
I didn’t think that my original statement would be misunderstood. I will try to be more clear in the future.
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Old 11th February 2019, 08:51 PM   #4556
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Added: saying that they plan to sell something is a forward looking statement. I don’t believe that investors have any recourse if they (BLP) fail to accomplish their goals.
I didn't see your "Added" until now. He did not say they planned to sell it, he said he has 'Product Hydrino® “in a bottle” identified by multiple analytical methods'. That's a statement of current status. It's wrong now if it hasn't been confirmed by multiple anlalytical methods. It's also wrong if it's not really a product right now.

Further, in the same quarterly reports, he said he planned to show the world the compounds he's been claiming to have for about a decade, possibly more. While technically that is a forward looking statement, it's a damn simple one to accomplish unless he's been lying about actually having them.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:46 PM   #4557
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Well, that's all nice. But if you actually believe the guy is a scammer could you before more careful about posting things that say he isn't?
I have always understood "in the clear" to mean more what jr howell meant - being technically within the law - and did not find it confusing in context.
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:57 PM   #4558
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
What's the power input?
Still don't know the power input, I can only guess. My ballpark guess is 5kW.

Quote:
Why are you still assuming the video starts with the apparatus at room temperature, when the thing is already running at the start of the video?
Yes it is running at the start of the video ; the liquid gallium is being pumped. But there is no hydrogen. Only when the hydrogen is added does the reaction proceed and the temperature start to rise.
A key to understanding how we can know it starts near room temperature is to see how quickly the shade of red changes. One can tell the temperature by the shade of red. 500C is a dark dull red. 800 is a bright glowing red.
See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._-_1300_C).svg
The video shows the top of the sphere going from about 500C to 800C in just 6 seconds or so. A temperature rise from 20C to 500C would take about 6*(500-20)/(800-500) =~ 10 seconds, which is roughly the time it takes to achieve a dull dark red at 500C once the hydrogen is turned on.

Quote:
Given that the arc is high current at low voltage, what do you think the capacitors are for?
Capacitors can do low voltage high current. See for instance
https://www.maxwell.com/products/ultracapacitors/cells
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:59 PM   #4559
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I think it is more like Mills and proponents think the purported "cold fusion" results were based on hydrinos.
And then there are some of us who disagree with Mills and say there is both hydrino and cold fusion phenomena.
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:12 PM   #4560
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I think we can expect with some certainty that, on the 26th February, markie will claim that the prototype SunCell has been proven to work to his personal satisfaction, and that therefore he wins. That will then buy him another six months of referring back to his own declaration before pointing out that the object shown to be doing something six months previously was not in fact a prototype of a fully marketable device, and a considerable amount of additional engineering will be needed before a commercial release is likely. No doubt there will be some peripheral part of the technology that, although a solved engineering problem for a century or so, is slightly beyond the ability of BLP to adapt to their surprisingly unique requirements.

tl;dr version: Rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
He was asked at the time for the criteria for a working device and he stated:



So far even Mills isn't claiming to have that.

(Though of course markie could claim that the capacitors are only charged from the grid ahead of time and are not connected at the time the device is briefly running.)
Well I don't think Mills will have it closed loop - to recharge the capacitors - by the end of February. Achieving a closed loop device that runs for several minutes at obviously very high power would sway some reasonable skeptics here. (There would have to be outside validators present as well.) But I can't see that happening within the month. So I'll lose the bet and, darn, have to eat my humble pie.
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