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Old 5th March 2019, 12:08 PM   #1
Dancing David
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Canada: PM starting to smoldera nd veer or ready to crash?

As a person who loves Canadian vacations and a lover of Canada in general, I am dismayed by what has been alleged of Trudeau

Thought?
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:15 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
As a person who loves Canadian vacations and a lover of Canada in general, I am dismayed by what has been alleged of Trudeau

Thought?
It is bad, and he couldn't have handled it any worse. In a well functioning society he would be voted out in October. However, the opposition leaders are pretty incompetent so it is anyone's guess.
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
As a person who loves Canadian vacations and a lover of Canada in general, I am dismayed by what has been alleged of Trudeau

Thought?
What are we talking about? Isn't it customary to post a link and some information before asking such a question?
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
As a person who loves Canadian vacations and a lover of Canada in general, I am dismayed by what has been alleged of Trudeau

Thought?
I am assuming you are referring to the controversy over SNC-Lavalin. (It is a Quecec-based company that had been accused of various crimes, but Trudeau is accused of interfering in the case, supposedly to protect the jobs that would be lost if the company is found guilty.)

There has been some discussion of this in the general 'Canadian Politics' thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...299404&page=12 (starting with post 477)

My thoughts: Its not that surprising. The Liberals have a history of corruption (Adscam and the HRDC boondogle under chretien), and Trudeau is not exactly a political heavyweight. Plus, the company is Quebec-based, and since the Liberal's power base is in Quebec it would make sense for them to want to bend over backwards to help them.

It is, however, surprising that this type of implosion happened so soon (in Trudeau's first term). Last time the Liberals were deep into their 2nd and 3rd mandate before things really got messy, and even then you didn't see the type of cabinet revolt that you are seeing here.

Still, I think the Liberals can ride it out. Quebec tends to support their fellow Quebecers when it comes to electing the government (sweeping quebec brings the government half way to a majority) and the opposition seems to be a bit weak.

ETA: This is not the first scandal the Trudeau government has been involved in. There was a recent issue where Trudeau made a trip to India, and had a former convicted terrorist invited to a state dinner. And when the house of commons tried to investigate, the government blocked things.
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Last edited by Segnosaur; 5th March 2019 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 5th March 2019, 01:20 PM   #5
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If only this were what passed for a scandal here in the states.
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Old 5th March 2019, 03:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What are we talking about? Isn't it customary to post a link and some information before asking such a question?
Fair enough
Today's CBC
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jus...tion-1.5042920

A timeline
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...valin-affair-2

Back in February
https://montrealgazette.com/news/pol...0-0b19ca5867c1
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Old 5th March 2019, 03:23 PM   #7
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Didn't we have a poster here claiming he was gay a while back?
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Old 6th March 2019, 03:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Didn't we have a poster here claiming he was gay a while back?
I thought that was a requirement of the office.
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Old 6th March 2019, 05:01 PM   #9
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health issues

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this story about the Canadian Govt bankrolling Homeopaths to go to third world countries to spread their ideas in countries where the heath system is not up to the same standard as the first world. But it seems pertinent.



Quote:
Physicians who go on aid missions abroad want the federal government to review its funding of a program that sends homeopaths to Honduras because of the potential harm to local people.


Since 2015, Quebec-based Terre Sans Frontières (TSF) has been spending $70,000 annually in aid money from Global Affairs Canada to dispatch more than a dozen volunteer homeopaths to Honduras.


The money runs out in 2020. But Dr. Zain Chagla wants the federal government to review the homeopath program which claims to prevent and treat Chagas disease among other serious infections.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/stop-...uras-1.5039745
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Old 6th March 2019, 07:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I am assuming you are referring to the controversy over SNC-Lavalin. (It is a Quecec-based company that had been accused of various crimes, but Trudeau is accused of interfering in the case, supposedly to protect the jobs that would be lost if the company is found guilty.)

There has been some discussion of this in the general 'Canadian Politics' thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...299404&page=12 (starting with post 477)

My thoughts: Its not that surprising. The Liberals have a history of corruption (Adscam and the HRDC boondogle under chretien), and Trudeau is not exactly a political heavyweight. Plus, the company is Quebec-based, and since the Liberal's power base is in Quebec it would make sense for them to want to bend over backwards to help them.

It is, however, surprising that this type of implosion happened so soon (in Trudeau's first term). Last time the Liberals were deep into their 2nd and 3rd mandate before things really got messy, and even then you didn't see the type of cabinet revolt that you are seeing here.

Still, I think the Liberals can ride it out. Quebec tends to support their fellow Quebecers when it comes to electing the government (sweeping quebec brings the government half way to a majority) and the opposition seems to be a bit weak.

ETA: This is not the first scandal the Trudeau government has been involved in. There was a recent issue where Trudeau made a trip to India, and had a former convicted terrorist invited to a state dinner. And when the house of commons tried to investigate, the government blocked things.
Did Trudeau personally benefit from this. Governments through history have protected the "too big to fail" companies. Look at Wall Street during the financial crises of 2008. Most of them would have gone under without help.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Quote:
I am assuming you are referring to the controversy over SNC-Lavalin. (It is a Quecec-based company that had been accused of various crimes, but Trudeau is accused of interfering in the case, supposedly to protect the jobs that would be lost if the company is found guilty.)
Did Trudeau personally benefit from this
Not directly.

The chief benefit would be that if the company went out of business, it would harm Quebec's economy, which might harm the Liberal's chance of reelection (since much of the Liberal's support comes from the province of Quebec.)

However, it should be noted that SNC Lavalin was caught in a scheme to make illegal campaign donations to the Liberal Party. (The conservatives received donations too, but far less than the Liberals.) It wasn't directly related to this most recent scandal, but some might think it might explain why Trudeau was so keen to protect the company.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ele...neau-1.4984823
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:14 AM   #12
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Very poor showing by Trudeau at his presser this AM. Equally poor response by Scheer.
Canadian politics is in sad shape these days
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:22 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Didn't we have a poster here claiming he was gay a while back?
Baylor claimed that Trudeau was trans, a short while ago.
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Very poor showing by Trudeau at his presser this AM. Equally poor response by Scheer.
Canadian politics is in sad shape these days
Not if taken in relation to US politics!
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:27 AM   #15
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Ok having read a bit about it now, I'll echo Segnosaur: corruption in the liberal party isn't new. It's unfortunate that no change have occured since Chrétien's time. Seems like I'll have to take the federal liberals out of my potential voting choices for a few more cycles.
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Old 7th March 2019, 11:44 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Not if taken in relation to US politics!
I considered adding that, but I knew somebody else would. Our PM is just garden variety corrupt, not completely off his rocker.
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Baylor claimed that Trudeau was trans, a short while ago.
How can you even tell if a Canadian is trans?
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How can you even tell if a Canadian is trans?
There are ways...... but they are known only to Canadians.
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
There are ways...... but they are known only to Canadians.
Kinda like penguins, I guess. Makes sense, an adaptation to extreme cold environments.
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Kinda like penguins, I guess. Makes sense, an adaptation to extreme cold environments.
You are on the right track. I can say no more.
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How can you even tell if a Canadian is trans?
: duck :
Their lips are moving.

No, wait. That's how you can tell a Canadian is lying. Or apologizing? Damn. Turns out I don't even know where the capital of Canada is!
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Old 7th March 2019, 12:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Their lips are moving.
Their lips don't move. The entire top of their head does.

I saw it in a documentary.
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Old 7th March 2019, 03:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How can you even tell if a Canadian is trans?
I think you can tell by the tracks as they crawl to the next igloo looking for maple syrup
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Old 7th March 2019, 03:51 PM   #24
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They apologize first, and then bump into you in line at Tim Horton's.
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Old 7th March 2019, 03:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Turns out I don't even know where the capital of Canada is!
The capital of Canada is 'C'.
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Old 7th March 2019, 04:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The capital of Canada is 'C'.
/thread
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Old 7th March 2019, 06:32 PM   #27
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I just find it cute when Conservatives pretend to care about corruption and ethics.
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Old 7th March 2019, 06:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
I just find it cute when Conservatives pretend to care about corruption and ethics.
As opposed to all the sincere caring about corruption and ethics you've displayed in this thread?

Indeed your post could reasonably be construed as not giving a **** about corruption and ethics.
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Old 7th March 2019, 07:28 PM   #29
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It seems to me like a typical example of the opposition trying to get maximum altitude on their high-horse, chiding the opposition in a situation in which they would have acted exactly the same way. The rarity here is that the attorney general would refuse to tow the party line. Perhaps a consequence (and maybe a good one despite the backfire) of Trudeau disrupting the "good old boys club" cabinet structure.
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As opposed to all the sincere caring about corruption and ethics you've displayed in this thread?

Indeed your post could reasonably be construed as not giving a **** about corruption and ethics.
I'm not quite sure what your point is.

The OP asked for thoughts on the matter.

I gave them. I was pointing out that Conservatives seem to only care about corruption and ethics in others, and ignore their own issues.
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Old 8th March 2019, 05:52 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As opposed to all the sincere caring about corruption and ethics you've displayed in this thread?

Indeed your post could reasonably be construed as not giving a **** about corruption and ethics.
This
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Old 8th March 2019, 11:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by rustypouch View Post
I gave them. I was pointing out that Conservatives seem to only care about corruption and ethics in others, and ignore their own issues.
Not sure where exactly this is coming from.

Keep in mind:

- The idea that a party will condemn scandals in the opposition while ignoring their own problems is not unique to conservatives. After all, Chretien was quite adamant that the Liberals did nothing wrong when it came to the HRDC scandal for example.

- Not sure if your view is being affected by what is happening in the United States, but Canadian politics is different than American. Our "conservative" party would probably be more equivalent to the Democrats in the united states, and while there may be a few questionable individuals and policies that have come through the party, they haven't quite gone off the deep end like the GOP in the U.S.
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Old 10th March 2019, 05:10 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
... and while there may be a few questionable individuals and policies that have come through the party, they haven't quite gone off the deep end like the GOP in the U.S.


No, not yet, but they're definitely climbing the ladder to the high-diving board. Every trend points towards them moving the same direction as the GOP, they just got started later, as is usual for Canada.

I'll say this for the right wing, both in Canada and the US: they've finally convinced me we are in a culture war. Unfortunately for them, they've also convinced me I'm on the other side.
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Old 11th March 2019, 05:04 AM   #34
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The first thing to do in any Canadian political scandal recently is to figure out what the devil everyone's talking about.

Initial takeaways - Deferred Prosecution Agreements (DPA) appear at first glance to be a good thing - essentially an agreement by the Crown Prosecutor and the defendant corporation to correct the illegal activity by a certain date and to refrain from said activity in the future in exchange for a sentence that doesn't involve the corporation being forcibly dissolved, or alternately no prosecution in exchange for the correction of activity "x".

This makes sense for certain offences - environmental offences where the corporation bears the clean up costs for instance - less so for others.

What I note out of all this is the amount of virtue signalling from the opposition parties (to be expected), and the lack of clear explanation in the press of the issues until the whole thing has been in the news cycles for at least a week.

Makes me long for something like the Pacific Scandal to ensure ease of public understanding.
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Old 11th March 2019, 05:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
The first thing to do in any Canadian political scandal recently is to figure out what the devil everyone's talking about.

Initial takeaways - Deferred Prosecution Agreements (DPA) appear at first glance to be a good thing - essentially an agreement by the Crown Prosecutor and the defendant corporation to correct the illegal activity by a certain date and to refrain from said activity in the future in exchange for a sentence that doesn't involve the corporation being forcibly dissolved, or alternately no prosecution in exchange for the correction of activity "x".

This makes sense for certain offences - environmental offences where the corporation bears the clean up costs for instance - less so for others.

What I note out of all this is the amount of virtue signalling from the opposition parties (to be expected), and the lack of clear explanation in the press of the issues until the whole thing has been in the news cycles for at least a week.

Makes me long for something like the Pacific Scandal to ensure ease of public understanding.
And in this case, part of the penalty of regular conviction would be being barred from bidding on government contracts for 10 years. The company in question is one of very few Canadian companies capable of bidding on some major development projects, so conviction would mean less competition and increased likelihood of contracting foreign companies for municipal construction and development work.
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:18 PM   #36
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Personally speaking, I think Trudeau is dead in the water.

I'll be very surprised if he doesn't get voted out in the next election. If there's one thing the opposition is damn good at, it's preaching and screeching loudly from their soapbox high-horses, feigning the moral high ground, and thus, rallying the rest of the country behind them... they're kinda like US republicans in that sense.

Trudeau is toast, IMO.
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:20 PM   #37
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Yeah, I expect you are right. Certainly we have seen that trend in the provincial elections recently.
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:27 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by attempt5001 View Post
Yeah, I expect you are right. Certainly we have seen that trend in the provincial elections recently.
Yup.

And it's a shame really. Because I think Trudeau's heart is in the right place, so I'd like to see what this kid might be able to accomplish over the next several years for our country.

But judging by the sounds I'm hearing from other people and the media, he won't get that chance.
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Personally speaking, I think Trudeau is dead in the water.

I'll be very surprised if he doesn't get voted out in the next election. If there's one thing the opposition is damn good at, it's preaching and screeching loudly from their soapbox high-horses, feigning the moral high ground, and thus, rallying the rest of the country behind them... they're kinda like US republicans in that sense.

Trudeau is toast, IMO.
You are probably right. The election is only 7 months away. That is not enough time to recover or have the issue fade from voters' memory.
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Old 16th March 2019, 06:45 PM   #40
attempt5001
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Yup.

And it's a shame really. Because I think Trudeau's heart is in the right place, so I'd like to see what this kid might be able to accomplish over the next several years for our country.

But judging by the sounds I'm hearing from other people and the media, he won't get that chance.
I agree that he's trying. I have to admit that I'm not fond of the idea of electing politicians based on their name (I don't think Trudeau's credentials would have given him a shot at the party leadership if it's wasn't for his family background). And I think some of the naïveté that comes with being promoted too quickly has dogged him throughout his time as prime minister. That said, electing someone who isn't already experienced in "playing politics" isn't a totally bad idea.

I fairly fiscally conservative, but socially moderate/liberal and environmentally conscientious. As such, I think I've voted for every political party out there at some point in my life, both provincially and nationally, and I have a hard time supporting any one party with much enthusiasm. I currently live in a riding that is extremely dominantly liberal as well, both provincially and nationally, so while I consider my votes carefully and make sure to cast my ballots, I feel like it has zero impact.

Anyway, I think the next election will be very interesting.
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