ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old 17th July 2019, 04:46 PM   #1401
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25,882
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Qur'an says that people will believe always make up partners.

12:106 Most of them will not acknowledge God without setting up partners.

16:3 He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth. Be He exalted above the partners they set up.

40:73 Then it will be said to them: "Where are those that you have set up as partners"
Who cares what the Qur'an says? Show of hands!


Why do you think we care what it says in the Hadith or the Qur'an or the Bible or the Veda...etc etc etc?

They have ess meaning to the a critical thinker than a comic book.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2019, 05:15 AM   #1402
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Who cares what the Qur'an says? Show of hands!


Why do you think we care what it says in the Hadith or the Qur'an or the Bible or the Veda...etc etc etc?

They have ess meaning to the a critical thinker than a comic book.
As a bonus, Comic Books inspire much better thought experiments.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2019, 05:25 AM   #1403
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The Qur'an says that people will believe always make up partners.

12:106 Most of them will not acknowledge God without setting up partners.

16:3 He has created the heavens and the earth with the truth. Be He exalted above the partners they set up.

40:73 Then it will be said to them: "Where are those that you have set up as partners"
That's nice.

I will counter with some of the Rules of Acquisition, a much more fitting holy text for the modern world.

Quote:
10 Greed is eternal.
This one was clearly observed by Mohammad:

Quote:
6 Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity
A LOT of them were clearly observed by Muhammad:

Quote:
34 War is good for business.
45 Expand or die.
62 The riskier the road, the greater the profit.
94 Females and finances don't mix.
111 Treat people in your debt like family… exploit them.
211 Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
Then there are some of the, well, we'll call them the ROA Apocrypha, as they're not part of the official listing, but they were clearly favored by Muhammad.

Quote:
Why ask, when you can take?
Exploitation begins at home.
These of course apply to the Koran (And the Bible, and other holy texts)
Quote:
A good lie is easier to believe than the truth
If that's what's written, then that's what's written.
The more I think about it, the more I realize MOST religious leaders of all faiths adhere far better to the Rules of Acquisition than any of the texts they claim are part of their holy writ.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2019, 06:01 AM   #1404
Pope130
Illuminator
 
Pope130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That's nice.

I will counter with some of the Rules of Acquisition, a much more fitting holy text for the modern world. ...snip....
And isn't "Praise the Lord", "God is Great", "Allah Akbar", and all it's variations requiring prayer, Rule 33; "It never hurts to suck up to the boss."?

Last edited by Pope130; 18th July 2019 at 06:05 AM.
Pope130 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2019, 07:58 AM   #1405
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
And isn't "Praise the Lord", "God is Great", "Allah Akbar", and all it's variations requiring prayer, Rule 33; "It never hurts to suck up to the boss."?
Yes. Yes they are.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 07:50 AM   #1406
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 775
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)

There is no consistent standard or time frame taught in the Bible. It is obvious that many of the Prophets in the Bible fasted, hence we must “be like them” but no clear guidance is within the Bible as to how long to fast.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:

“Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” (Quran 2:185)

Thus, the Holy Quran clarifies the standard date, time, reason, and method of fasting, unlike the Bible."

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 07:57 AM   #1407
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)

There is no consistent standard or time frame taught in the Bible. It is obvious that many of the Prophets in the Bible fasted, hence we must “be like them” but no clear guidance is within the Bible as to how long to fast.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:

“Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” (Quran 2:185)

Thus, the Holy Quran clarifies the standard date, time, reason, and method of fasting, unlike the Bible."

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
Sounds to me like the Koran is advocating laziness in fasting. The fasts are capped at a month. You get to eat after sunset. That's not really "fasting." That's just pretending to fast in order to make people irritable so they can pretend it's some sort of religious sacrifice.

In the Bible Jesus went 40 days and 40 knights without food. THAT'S fasting.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 08:22 AM   #1408
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,099
Fasting? Kid stuff! Anybody can fast!

But can you slow? Stop moving for 40 days 'n nights?

Sez in my Koran, Sure-uh Abbagayah 5*2€~888, "For him that freezes on place tickleth Ullah's funny bone. The wahhhabite hurts no longer as he standeth still! He need not pronounce "hhh," nor " ' " nor all such sore-throat noises. Now drag somebody somewhere. Selah."

My Kuran is the FUN Qqran!
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 11:13 AM   #1409
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Excuse; None available.
Because it's not a problem in either Judaism or Christianity, neither of which considers it a point of doctrine to fast for a single, fixed length of time. It's left up to the individual and his personal inspiration. Your "must be like them" constraint is something you made up, not something the practitioners of these religions adopt.

Quote:
Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:
Specificity does not equate to divinity. Yes, you've shown how two religions are different. But your attempt to show that one is better than the other derives from you making up rules for other religions to follow and then trying to take them to task for not following them. Either you don't understand what other religions believe, or you simply don't care. And it doesn't matter, because you aren't listening to anyone but yourself.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 01:45 PM   #1410
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,227
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)

There is no consistent standard or time frame taught in the Bible. It is obvious that many of the Prophets in the Bible fasted, hence we must “be like them” but no clear guidance is within the Bible as to how long to fast.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:

“Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” (Quran 2:185)

Thus, the Holy Quran clarifies the standard date, time, reason, and method of fasting, unlike the Bible."

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
The Koran's fasting is vastly inferior. Daniel fasted for 3 weeks without food or water. Moses and Jesus did forty days. The Koran only has 30 days.
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 09:39 PM   #1411
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,227
Hey Emre_1974tr, how come you won't reply to the comments that Islam likes to attack and kill other peoples/empires?
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2019, 10:46 PM   #1412
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,793
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)

There is no consistent standard or time frame taught in the Bible. It is obvious that many of the Prophets in the Bible fasted, hence we must “be like them” but no clear guidance is within the Bible as to how long to fast.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:

“Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” (Quran 2:185)

Thus, the Holy Quran clarifies the standard date, time, reason, and method of fasting, unlike the Bible."

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
And yet, your all-knowing god forgot to include rules for people living outside of the middle east.
If you follow the rules given and happen to live above the polar circle you will either starve or not fast at all.
Almost as if it was written by someone who had no idea about length of day variation at different latitudes.
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2019, 01:41 AM   #1413
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,959
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)
Two different religions with different rules: who would have thought that?

Fasting may be beneficial to your health, but that does not seem to be the reason behind the fasting, and the strict rules of Islam in particular seem to be detrimental to the health: not to drink or eat during the day, but it is allowed to gorge on food during the night! Dehydration is a real danger here.

It is so much easier not to believe in these silly gods and their rules, and just follow good health advice.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2019, 04:55 PM   #1414
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 775
"Moses

Name means "newborn" in ancient Egyptian.

The Bible claims that "Moses" is a Hebrew name, however those who named him weren't Hebrew. Pharaoh and his family were Egyptians. Today Egyptologists discovered the Egyptian meaning of the word "Moses"."

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/moses_name.htm
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2019, 06:51 PM   #1415
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Moses

Name means "newborn" in ancient Egyptian.

The Bible claims that "Moses" is a Hebrew name, however those who named him weren't Hebrew. Pharaoh and his family were Egyptians. Today Egyptologists discovered the Egyptian meaning of the word "Moses"."

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/moses_name.htm
Why do you insist on trying to pontificate on languages you don't know? And why are you unable to provide any discussion on your own, and must rely simply on parroting pro-Islam sites that have no more expertise in the matter than you? Do you really think you're fooling anyone?
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2019, 07:56 PM   #1416
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,099
Well, Jay, I believe the poor soul is fooling himself.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2019, 10:33 PM   #1417
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 20,834
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Moses

Name means "newborn" in ancient Egyptian.

The Bible claims that "Moses" is a Hebrew name, however those who named him weren't Hebrew. Pharaoh and his family were Egyptians. Today Egyptologists discovered the Egyptian meaning of the word "Moses"."

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/moses_name.htm
Every part of that crap is comprehensively wrong. Just like your magic book.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 05:45 AM   #1418
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Moses

Name means "newborn" in ancient Egyptian.

The Bible claims that "Moses" is a Hebrew name, however those who named him weren't Hebrew. Pharaoh and his family were Egyptians. Today Egyptologists discovered the Egyptian meaning of the word "Moses"."

http://www.miracles-of-quran.com/moses_name.htm
Got a real source for that claim?
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 05:54 AM   #1419
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Every part of that crap is comprehensively wrong. Just like your magic book.
Well, not every part. Just the part that applies to this thread.

Jewish scholars have always found it problematic to suppose that Moses' name had a Hebrew etymology as the Torah suggests. There have been a lot of gymnastics proposed to account for it. Christians largely don't care. The Egyptian etymology is the strongest and most consistent option, assuming you actually believe there existed such a person as Moses. (There's no reason historically to suppose there did.)

The more hilarious problem with Emre's Muslim cheerleading site is that their attempt to bring it into an Arabic etymology -- and thus claim that the Qur'an is divinely inspired -- is even more tenuous and gymnastical than the Hebrew. Their conclusion is that the Qur'an must be from God because an illiterate Mohammed could not possibly have known the "correct" name of Moses. But their line of reasoning for how it's "correct" is comically bad. the name does not mean "newborn" in Egypt, as the site claims. It's just a patronymic, a common genitive.

Here we have a case where the Torah is quite probably wrong, but the Qur'an is certainly wrong. But since Emre doesn't read Hebrew, Arabic, Egyptian, or English -- the languages needed to discuss this problem intelligently at this forum -- we will hear nothing about it. He'll ignore this problem completely and then come back in a few days with a completely different "miracle" to prove his religion. He doesn't really understand the arguments, or whether the sites he's consulted are scholarly or polemic. He's just throwing stuff out there, cargo-cult fashion.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 07:05 AM   #1420
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
He doesn't really understand the arguments, or whether the sites he's consulted are scholarly or polemic. He's just throwing stuff out there, cargo-cult fashion.
Are we sure he's not a Christian? I saw behavior like that from most the Christians I knew growing up. Creationists in particular.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 08:36 AM   #1421
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Are we sure he's not a Christian? I saw behavior like that from most the Christians I knew growing up. Creationists in particular.
I've seen it in a number of fringe claimants, religious and secular. Among them it seems believed that it's a given that secular science, history, etc. support their beliefs even if they themselves don't rightly understand how. In this case, Emre sees a site that purports to make an argument in his favor using knowledge he doesn't natively understand. But he trusts the site and supposes that his opponents will be similarly hobbled by ignorance and must therefore respect what it says. For a secular example, consider some of the pseudo-engineering arguments proposed in 9/11 debates. And yes, I have seen such cargo-cult science used by Creationists too, as you note. I just don't believe it's unique to them, such that we can tar Emre with the brush of being secretly Christian.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 09:49 AM   #1422
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I just don't believe it's unique to them, such that we can tar Emre with the brush of being secretly Christian.

My apologies. I was trying to be facetious with my comment. I was not trying to seriously imply she/he/ze/they were a secret Christian. I was trying to mock their unthinking parroting of the flawed and ignorant claims of others.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2019, 01:42 PM   #1423
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
My apologies. I was trying to be facetious with my comment.
I missed the sarcasm. In that case, I should be apologizing to you.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 04:08 AM   #1424
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Ultimately this thread has boiled down to one person with no demonstrable comprehension of comparative religion listing differences between the Koran and the Bible and declaring victory, despite having given no objective evidence to support either text. We might as well be discussing if the DC or Marvel cosmology are better suited to storytelling.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2019, 05:38 PM   #1425
Nowhere Man
Critical Thinker
 
Nowhere Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 263
Pigeon chess.

Fred
__________________
Hey, you! "It's" with an apostrophe means "it is" or "it has." "Its" without an apostrophe means "belongs to it."

"For shame, gentlemen, pack your evidence a little better against another time."
-- John Dryden, "The Vindication of The Duke of Guise" 1684
Nowhere Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:43 AM   #1426
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 21,041
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"To Fast

Contradiction; Fasting is for three weeks (Daniel 10:2-3) Vs Fasting is for forty days (Deuteronomy 9:9-18, Matthew 4:1-2)

There is no consistent standard or time frame taught in the Bible. It is obvious that many of the Prophets in the Bible fasted, hence we must “be like them” but no clear guidance is within the Bible as to how long to fast.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Unlike the Bible, the Holy Quran specifies the period for fasting as being one month:

“Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Quran, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.” (Quran 2:185)

Thus, the Holy Quran clarifies the standard date, time, reason, and method of fasting, unlike the Bible."

http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
Except your stupid ass god and his sick freak prophet failed to take into account people who live in complete light or complete darkness for months of the year in or near the Arctic Circle. And why should people fast to amuse your god? What kind of a dick tells people not to drink water in a desert? Your god is an *******.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 05:30 AM   #1427
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
What kind of a dick tells people not to drink water in a desert?
One into eugenics?
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th September 2019, 03:24 PM   #1428
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 775
"Joseph’s Prophecy

Contradiction; The Bible manifests an unfulfilled prophecy concerning Joseph’s dream;

Edited by kmortis:  Snipped to comply with Rule 4


http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/

Last edited by kmortis; 26th September 2019 at 05:08 AM.
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2019, 09:30 AM   #1429
Scorpion
Master Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Joseph’s Prophecy

Contradiction; The Bible manifests an unfulfilled prophecy concerning Joseph’s dream;

Edited by kmortis:  Snipped to comply with Rule 4


http://islamicbook.com/free/200-ways...cts-the-bible/
Having compared the bible story of Joseph in the bibles Genesis with the Quran, I can just about follow the story as described in sura 12. But as far as I can see, anyone who did not know the Genesis story could not possibly make sense of the tale of Joseph, as told in the Quran.

In the bible books of Genesis from chapter thirty seven to chapter fifty. the entire fourteen chapters are about Joseph. There are four hundred and fifty verses about the story in the bible, but in the quran sura 12 there are only one hundred and eleven verses.

The quranic version of the bible story of Joseph is a mumbling, incoherent, ill considered, and inaccurate muddle, and it does not even tell you who Joseph is. It just launches into Josephs dream at verse 4, after three verses that attempt to explain the story is being revealed in Arabic, presumably to make it available to Arabs.

The entire sura is peppered with completely unnecessary references to Allah which clutter the narrative, if you can call it a narrative. Because the bible story is clear and lucid, and rich in detail, and it has a comprehensible flow to it.


Sura 12.4 launches into a description of Josephs dream, with no explanation of who he is or how many brothers he has. What is more the dream described is the second of two dreams that are told in Genesis. But the entire point of the dream is that the eleven stars bowing down to Joseph are his eleven brothers. Genesis explains Josephs family tree so you can realize this, but the Quran says nothing about the matter. The Genesis story also says that Jacob made a coat of many colours for Joseph, and that is why his brothers were jealous of him, but the quran gives no reason or motives for Josephs brothers to hate him. Nor does it explain that Joseph has one other brother named Benjamin who had the same mother as himself, but the other ten brothers are step brothers. Nor does sura 12 explain this issue at any time, including when Joseph sends for him from Egypt.

So when Josephs brothers state at sura 12.8 When they said:" Verily Joseph and his brother are dearer to our father than we are, many though we be. Lo! our father is in plain aberration":
This makes absolutely no sense whatever to anyone that has not read the full account in Genesis.

Later in the story Joseph is put in power in Egypt, but sura 12 says nothing about him filling the granaries for seven years, it simply changes the subject to when his brothers amble into Egypt to trade, (sura 12.58) and it does not explain they are there because it is now during the seven years of famine. Then Joseph ask his brothers to send for a brother of who is a son of their father, this again makes no sense without an explanation of the family background.

How much more obvious can it be that the Quran is plagiarism, and it was taken from the Bible and other earlier sources. It is clear to me that Muhammad had Genesis read to him and sura 12 is his half remembered rehash of the story of Joseph.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by kmortis; 26th September 2019 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Edited previously moderated content
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2019, 01:21 PM   #1430
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,099
The antagonists in this thread are perfectly matched. As it says in Sura 123.34, the Bag, "Withdraw, ye faithfulists. Armageddipop is joined! Wah!"

Just so you know.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th September 2019, 10:06 AM   #1431
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Joseph’s Prophecy

(Apparent rule violation trimmed)

Isn’t there a forum rule against copying and pasting large blocks of text available elsewhere?

Emre_1974tr isn’t engaging in any kind of discussion. They’re just copying and pasting large blocks of text they’ve already proven they don’t understand. I’m tempted to start copying and pasting large blocks of text from Harry Potter fan-fiction and claiming it corrects the mistakes in JKR’s books. As long as I ignore most replies and insult anyone who I DO respond to I’d be doing a damn good impression of Emre_1974tr.
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2019, 12:21 AM   #1432
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,959
I agree. Emre_1974tr does not engage in debate. He only copies his stuff so that it will pop up in search results.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2019, 12:57 AM   #1433
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Southern hemisphere
Posts: 7,631
Been that way for some time now ...
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2019, 01:30 PM   #1434
Emre_1974tr
Muse
 
Emre_1974tr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 775
Reproducible Miracle

https://bookdown.org/gokmenaltay19/Q...Pg_3R_GxJEFgdk
Emre_1974tr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2019, 02:20 PM   #1435
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,227
Numerology garbage.

" I will demonstrate many reproducible evidences based on the codings of its text over number 19, which could only be realized and tested practically by the invention of computers."

"Also, this book uses the full text of Quran that was written in Arabic from the very beginning in 632 and all Muslims keep currently as printed in their homes or can buy from any bookstore or can access from any website about Quran. I declare here that I did not change or manipulated any part of Quran not even any of the letters of the original text. Therefore, this book has no relation to the early attempts on 19 based coding claims on the text of Quran, where acclaimed authors, unfortunately, manipulated parts of the text to end up with their own made up 19 system, which was unacceptable regarding data analysis. Because, once the text is manipulated to show the computed numbers match to 19, then it is not the evidence of the original text anymore but the numerology study of the manipulators. In the end, it is no surprise to get a desired result by manipulating any data! "

Last edited by Little 10 Toes; 9th November 2019 at 02:23 PM.
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th November 2019, 10:06 PM   #1436
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 20,834
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Did you not know that numerology works in all books?

It is a mere artefact of written language.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2019, 07:17 AM   #1437
halleyscomet
Penultimate Amazing
 
halleyscomet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,259
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post


Seriously?

Seriously?

Every half-assed conspiracy theorists can cook up far more convincing “proofs” of Illuminati conspiracies with the daily news.

“Truthers” claiming the 9/11 attacks were holograms make a better argument than you do.

There’s an entire genre of Bible apologetic writing using similar arguments to “Prove” the Christian Bible is “true.”
__________________
Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!
halleyscomet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2019, 09:06 AM   #1438
Scorpion
Master Poster
 
Scorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Number 19 theory. Isn't that Rashad Khalifa's pet theory? If so he altered the Quran by leaving out two verses, because they did not fit his theory.
Khalifa was accused of molesting a girl on the pretext of feeling her aura, and he was ultimately killed by Muslims for blasphemy.
__________________
You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
Scorpion is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2019, 10:53 AM   #1439
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,633
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Works just as well for the Torah . . . . . and War and Peace.
https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/ch...nWarPeace.html

I understand the Romans thought highly of the predictive power of chicken entrails.

__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th November 2019, 11:30 AM   #1440
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,791
Agreed: numerology garbage. I've programmed very powerful computers to "discover" allegedly statistical patterns in texts in all the languages I'm competent with. I never fail to find one, regardless of the supposed religious or philosophical significance of the text. I've found a surprising number of words describing genitalia in the U.S. Constitution using the techniques these religious pseudo-scientists employ.
JayUtah is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.