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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , lawsuits , Michael Cohen , Stephanie Clifford , Stormy Daniels , Trump controversies

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Old 19th October 2018, 02:46 PM   #2201
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I'll link to the video, but just listening to a lawyer speak on this, the basic position is...

- Daniels can be seen as a political adversary
- Politicians should be able to use "rhetorical hyperbole" on adversaries (i.e. call each other lairs) without the threat of being sued for it.
- Daniel's suit was a threat to the free political discourse (for politicians to call each other names and liars)
- Thus the case was dismissed because it had the potential to harm free political discourse.

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I AGREE


So the upshot is that under the 1st amendment, politicians and their adversaries should be allowed to throw as much mud and spread whatever lies about each other as they like without the fear of being sued for it.

"- Daniels can be seen as a political adversary". Their chain of logic is absurd. It all rests on this condition and the truth of it has not been determined.
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Old 6th November 2018, 09:48 AM   #2202
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Avenatti asks to amend Stormy's lawsuit to drop the defamation claim.

This was done to evade Cohen's SLAPP motion which is similar to the motion Trump filed and which the same judge granted. In granting the motion, the Judge ordered Trump to file a fee petition which Stormy will be liable to pay.

They are trying to avoid the same result here. There is no way Avenatti told Stormy that she was going to end up owing these guys money. What a schlub.

Here are the motion papers.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...n-related.html
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Old 4th December 2018, 09:39 AM   #2203
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President Trump Seeks Nearly $800K From Stormy Daniels -- $390,000 in Legal Fees - And Equal Amount as Deterrent Against Future Frivolous Lawsuits!

No way he will get that all, but that should mean #basta to Stormy and her grifter lawyer.
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Old 4th December 2018, 11:59 AM   #2204
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
President Trump Seeks Nearly $800K From Stormy Daniels -- $390,000 in Legal Fees - And Equal Amount as Deterrent Against Future Frivolous Lawsuits!
No way he will get that all, but that should mean #basta to Stormy and her grifter lawyer.
He will not get anywhere close to it.

When courts award legal fees they generally do so based on a tariff schedule, plus allowable disbursements. The lawyers for both sides send their proposals to the other side and if they cannot come to an agreement, ask the court to fix costs.

The tariff schedules fix the number of hours that a lawyer can bill for each step of the process, and set caps on the hourly rate that can be billed. There are also restrictions on what you can claim are allowable disbursements - usually filing fees, fees for process servers, photocopying, binding of documents, etc.

Punitive damages (the highlighted portion) are NOT part of a costs award.
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Old 4th December 2018, 12:12 PM   #2205
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
He will not get anywhere close to it.

When courts award legal fees they generally do so based on a tariff schedule, plus allowable disbursements. The lawyers for both sides send their proposals to the other side and if they cannot come to an agreement, ask the court to fix costs.

The tariff schedules fix the number of hours that a lawyer can bill for each step of the process, and set caps on the hourly rate that can be billed. There are also restrictions on what you can claim are allowable disbursements - usually filing fees, fees for process servers, photocopying, binding of documents, etc.

Punitive damages (the highlighted portion) are NOT part of a costs award.
I have no idea where you are getting your idea that there is "tariff" schedule as respects the award of attorney fees. Further, under the Texas version of the Anti-Slapp suit, the Judge must sanction the plaintiff to deter similar suit. Stormy is Texas resident.

See here: https://www.rcfp.org/slapp-stick-fig...rnalists/texas

Not saying he will get all that , but your analysis is not consistent with the law.
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:47 AM   #2206
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I have no idea where you are getting your idea that there is "tariff" schedule as respects the award of attorney fees. Further, under the Texas version of the Anti-Slapp suit, the Judge must sanction the plaintiff to deter similar suit. Stormy is Texas resident.

See here: https://www.rcfp.org/slapp-stick-fig...rnalists/texas

Not saying he will get all that , but your analysis is not consistent with the law.
She may be a Texas resident, but the action was filed in California, meaning that California law is what is applicable.

The relevant section of the California law reads:

Quote:
2) A defendant who prevails on a special motion to strike in an action subject to paragraph (1) shall not be entitled to attorney's fees and costs if that cause of action is brought pursuant to Section 6259 , 11130 , 11130.3 , 54960 , or 54960.1 of the Government Code .  Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prevent a prevailing defendant from recovering attorney's fees and costs pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 6259 , or Section 11130.5 or 54960.5, of the Government Code .
And just to be complete:

s.6259(d): d) The court shall award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to the plaintiff should the plaintiff prevail in litigation filed pursuant to this section. The costs and fees shall be paid by the public agency of which the public official is a member or employee and shall not become a personal liability of the public official. If the court finds that the plaintiff’s case is clearly frivolous, it shall award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to the public agency.

s.11130.5: A court may award court costs and reasonable attorney’s fees to the plaintiff in an action brought pursuant to Section 11130 or 11130.3 where it is found that a state body has violated the provisions of this article. The costs and fees shall be paid by the state body and shall not become a personal liability of any public officer or employee thereof.

A court may award court costs and reasonable attorney’s fees to a defendant in any action brought pursuant to Section 11130 or 11130.3 where the defendant has prevailed in a final determination of the action and the court finds that the action was clearly frivolous and totally lacking in merit.

s.54960.5: A court may award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to the plaintiff in an action brought pursuant to Section 54960, 54960.1, or 54960.2 where it is found that a legislative body of the local agency has violated this chapter. Additionally, when an action brought pursuant to Section 54960.2 is dismissed with prejudice because a legislative body has provided an unconditional commitment pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of that section at any time after the 30-day period for making such a commitment has expired, the court shall award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to the plaintiff if the filing of that action caused the legislative body to issue the unconditional commitment. The costs and fees shall be paid by the local agency and shall not become a personal liability of any public officer or employee of the local agency.

A court may award court costs and reasonable attorney fees to a defendant in any action brought pursuant to Section 54960 or 54960.1 where the defendant has prevailed in a final determination of such action and the court finds that the action was clearly frivolous and totally lacking in merit.


Note that all of the sections state "court costs" and "reasonable attorney fees" are what is awarded. Court costs refer to filing fees and tend to be rather modest when compared to attorney fees. Reasonable attorney fees do NOT include punitive awards. Here in Canada, the various provincial courts and the Federal court have tariff schedules in their published Rules of Court that outline what the Court considers reasonable - both in Number of Hours for various procedures and upper limits on fees that can be claimed - the idea is not to make the use of the courts so financially prohibitive that only the very wealthy can pursue actions for the protection of their rights.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:38 PM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
She may be a Texas resident, but the action was filed in California, meaning that California law is what is applicable.
The action was filed in New York and transferred to California. The Judge used New York choice of law principles and applied Texas law.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...PP-Motion.html
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:24 AM   #2208
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The action was filed in New York and transferred to California. The Judge used New York choice of law principles and applied Texas law.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...PP-Motion.html
First, allow me to opine that the ruling is odd to me as a Canadian - a court ruling stating that a person is a citizen of a state which is a component of a nation state is ludicrous on its face as it does not follow how citizenship is recognized by well, anywhere else. It's like you want to maintain the fiction that your states are independent of a central government.

Second, the Texas law would appear to have the effect of rendering the use of courts where an elected official is alleged to have defamed a citizen to be problematic. Reasonable costs and disbursements isn't an issue - its the concept that unsuccessful parties must be penalized so as to "deter the party who brought the legal action from bringing similar actions ." The issue as I see it is not that frivolous or vexatious actions should not be deterred, but that cases that are simply not as strong (quite honestly, this one could have gone either way - calling someone a liar without proof can be considered defamatory, especially when one party exercises a privileged platform) are subject to penalties as well.

Frankly that has a chilling effect on the protection of one's rights - lack of success does not equate to frivolous or vexatious and should not result in excessive penalties (costs awards are a reasonable way to penalize an unsuccessful party). What it amounts to is a "win, or else" view and would reasonably be expected to deter practically anyone from bringing an action against public officials.
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Old 11th December 2018, 02:11 PM   #2209
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JUST IN: Federal judge orders Stormy Daniels to pay President Donald Trump $292,052.33 in attorney fees in her defamation case against the president, which the judge tossed out, plus $1000 in sanctions.

Statement from Trump's lawyer, Charles Harder: "The court’s order, along with the court’s prior order dismissing Stormy Daniels’ defamation case against the President, together constitute a total victory for the President, and a total defeat for Stormy Daniels in this case."

Basta!
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Old 11th December 2018, 02:19 PM   #2210
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here is a copy of the order

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...otion-for.html

Seems to me like that stormy gal needs a better lawyer....
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Old 11th December 2018, 03:57 PM   #2211
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Statement from Trump's lawyer, Charles Harder: "The court’s order, along with the court’s prior order dismissing Stormy Daniels’ defamation case against the President, together constitute a total victory for the President, and a total defeat for Stormy Daniels in this case."

And yet, the payment from Cohen to Daniels has already formed the basis of Cohen's conviction for campaign finance violations, and the basis for Cohen's assertion that he made the payments at the direction of candidate Trump.

What's the price of impeaching and then indicting a sitting President? Is it more than $292,000? Because I'll chip in twenty bucks for that.
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Old 11th December 2018, 04:05 PM   #2212
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And yet, the payment from Cohen to Daniels has already formed the basis of Cohen's conviction for campaign finance violations, and the basis for Cohen's assertion that he made the payments at the direction of candidate Trump.

What's the price of impeaching and then indicting a sitting President? Is it more than $292,000? Because I'll chip in twenty bucks for that.
If this is what Trump calls winning, I'd like more of it, please.
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Old 11th December 2018, 04:17 PM   #2213
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oof, this is really bad... Avenatti claims that Trump will have to pay Stormy for attorney fees she has not paid and will never pay, and therefore she will come out ahead on the $293k she has to pay Trump!

That is absolutely not how that works Mike, what an incompetent buffoon...

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1072612378712391686
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:21 PM   #2214
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Yet more lawsuits involving the Stormy one:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-c...rotect-n958496
Adult film star Stormy Daniels has filed a federal lawsuit against the Ohio police officers who arrested her at a strip club last summer, accusing them of engaging in a conspiracy to protect President Donald Trump.

Not really sure if that's the right way to go here... I mean, she certainly may have a claim about harassment, but tying this specific thing into Trump may be a bit of a long shot.
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Old 20th July 2019, 02:29 AM   #2215
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I'm not really sure if this is the right thread for this any more, but Hope Hicks may be in trouble for perjury re the Stormy Daniels hush payments
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Old 23rd July 2019, 03:47 AM   #2216
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Hope Hicks should be in prison, along with Trump and Barr.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 06:59 AM   #2217
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Good. Lock her up! (to borrow a phrase).
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Old 1st August 2019, 08:11 AM   #2218
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5 Columbus, Ohio, police officers face discipline in Stormy Daniels strip club arrest

Quote:
Five Columbus, Ohio, police officers face disciplinary measures in connection with the July 2018 arrest of Stormy Daniels at a local club, police said Wednesday.

"Chief Tom Quinlan made this decision because these officers violated the Columbus Division of Police rules of conduct," police said in a news release without specifying the violations or naming the officers, all members of the now disbanded vice section.

The officers may face a reprimand, suspension, demotion or termination, the release said. Quinlan will make a recommendation, and the director of public safety will make the final decision based on that.

Police charged Daniels with three misdemeanor counts of illegally touching a patron at the Sirens Gentlemen's Club. She was detained for 12 hours, posted $6,054 bail and was released.

The charges were dropped because the law did not apply to her as she was a guest performer and did not regularly appear at the club, the Columbus city attorney said at the time.

Daniels, whose legal name is Stephanie Clifford, in January filed a suit against several members of the police department, seeking more than $1 million in compensatory damages and more than $1 million in punitive damages and costs and fees associated with the case.

The lawsuit alleges that the officers targeted her because they were "avowed supporters" of President Donald Trump and believed Daniels was "damaging President Trump and they thereafter entered into a conspiracy to arrest her during her performance in Columbus in retaliation for the public statements she had made" about Trump...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/31/us/st...ine/index.html
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Old 1st August 2019, 08:13 AM   #2219
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
5 Columbus, Ohio, police officers face discipline in Stormy Daniels strip club arrest



https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/31/us/st...ine/index.html
Cool, she can use it to help pay some of the damages that other ******* got her into. Avenatti.
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Old 1st August 2019, 04:56 PM   #2220
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In related news, it’s Shark Week!!!!
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Old 15th August 2019, 03:38 AM   #2221
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Missed this at the time: Court records unsealed a month ago state that the FBI has evidence directly tying Trump to the attempts to silence Daniels
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Old 15th August 2019, 05:02 AM   #2222
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Trump put a contract out on her?

Oh, wait, that's the Clintons' SOP.
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Old 15th August 2019, 06:29 AM   #2223
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
From the article:

The Justice Department told a judge Monday that it "effectively concluded" its investigation of the payoffs, signaling the end of one of the criminal inquiries that shadowed Trump's presidency. Federal prosecutors' decision to end the investigation relied at least in part on long-standing Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime, a person familiar with the matter said.
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Old 15th August 2019, 08:33 AM   #2224
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
From the article:

The Justice Department told a judge Monday that it "effectively concluded" its investigation of the payoffs, signaling the end of one of the criminal inquiries that shadowed Trump's presidency. Federal prosecutors' decision to end the investigation relied at least in part on long-standing Justice Department policy that a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime, a person familiar with the matter said.
That phrase seems to be saving his ass a lot these days.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:28 AM   #2225
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That phrase seems to be saving his ass a lot these days.
It's almost as though having someone above the law is a really bad idea.

Yes, I know that technically, the Queen is in the UK, but her power is very limited and I also think that's a bad idea.
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Old 15th August 2019, 10:35 AM   #2226
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Trump put a contract out on her?

Oh, wait, that's the Clintons' SOP.
You posted in the wrong section. Conspiracy theories are thataway ------>
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:33 PM   #2227
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It's almost as though having someone above the law is a really bad idea.
To be clear, the President is, at most, temporarily above the law. He or she is fair game on the day they leave office. Justice delayed is frustrating, but hope springs eternal.
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:42 PM   #2228
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
To be clear, the President is, at most, temporarily above the law. He or she is fair game on the day they leave office. Justice delayed is frustrating, but hope springs eternal.
Unless the statute of limitation has kicked in. Then they may get away with breaking the law.
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Old 15th August 2019, 04:45 PM   #2229
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Unless the statute of limitation has kicked in. Then they may get away with breaking the law.
True. Or if pardoned.

But like I said, we can only hope.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:18 AM   #2230
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
To be clear, the President is, at most, temporarily above the law. He or she is fair game on the day they leave office. Justice delayed is frustrating, but hope springs eternal.
still a bad idea.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:21 AM   #2231
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Unless the statute of limitation has kicked in. Then they may get away with breaking the law.
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
True. Or if pardoned.

But like I said, we can only hope.
And when a crime is unable to be prosecuted, the clock should stop for the statute of limitation.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:27 AM   #2232
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And when a crime is unable to be prosecuted, the clock should stop for the statute of limitation.
Agreed. I think a sealed indictment might be one way around that.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:28 AM   #2233
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Quote:
To be clear, the President is, at most, temporarily above the law. He or she is fair game on the day they leave office.
Unless the statute of limitation has kicked in. Then they may get away with breaking the law.
I wonder if there would be any sort of precedent about "normally we couldn't prosecute due to statute of limitations, but because Trump was untouchable while president, we will assume the 'clock had stopped' for those 4 years".)

Granted, it might be overturned by the Trump-friendly supreme court.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:29 AM   #2234
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And when a crime is unable to be prosecuted, the clock should stop for the statute of limitation.
I'm pretty sure that would defeat the whole purpose of the statute of limitation.
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Old 16th August 2019, 10:34 AM   #2235
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
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And when a crime is unable to be prosecuted, the clock should stop for the statute of limitation.
I'm pretty sure that would defeat the whole purpose of the statute of limitation.
Some people would consider a case where a criminal has deliberately put himself in a situation where they can't be prosecuted (such as getting themselves elected to an office where they have a well-know "No prosecution" rule) to be different than a case where a criminal can be arrested/prosecuted, but the government just prefers not to do so.
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Old 16th August 2019, 11:15 AM   #2236
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm pretty sure that would defeat the whole purpose of the statute of limitation.
Let's think about that.

The purpose of the statute, as I understand it, is that when enough time has passed it is difficult to defend oneself. In this case, the prosecution would have evidence gathered contemporaneously, but the defense would have less than it otherwise would have (though more than in a typical case, since presidents keep rather more records than the average person).

Thus, if the indictment is sealed, there is an unnatural advantage to the prosecution.

One way to mitigate that advantage is to allow for prosecutions after the president has left office so long as (1) the indictment is sealed so that the public is unaware of the charges and (2) the president himself is aware of the contents of the indictment. The second part would allow the president to work in a defense while the events are relatively fresh.

The problem with this solution is that (2) would almost inevitably lead to the indictment becoming public knowledge, so that (1) is compromised. Furthermore, the point of not indicting the president is to ensure that he is not distracted from his official duties and golf game, thus nullifying the entire reason sitting presidents should not be indicted.

So, I tend to agree with you. My conclusion is that Congress should instead do its duty and impeach the president in cases like this, political considerations be damned. That's what impeachment is for.

I'm not altogether firm on that stance. I understand that it may genuinely be better for the nation not to impeach Trump since he will not be removed and impeachment is likely to improve his reelection odds. Nonetheless, failure to impeach due to political considerations rather than considerations of justice and merit of the case is a dangerous precedent to set.
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Old 16th August 2019, 11:29 AM   #2237
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
So, I tend to agree with you. My conclusion is that Congress should instead do its duty and impeach the president in cases like this, political considerations be damned. That's what impeachment is for.

I'm not altogether firm on that stance. I understand that it may genuinely be better for the nation not to impeach Trump since he will not be removed and impeachment is likely to improve his reelection odds. Nonetheless, failure to impeach due to political considerations rather than considerations of justice and merit of the case is a dangerous precedent to set.
That's the part that sucks for everyone involved. We sit here watching him break laws with literally no recourse. The Senate will never, ever kick him out, and doing what's right (impeaching him for his many crimes) is pathetically considered a losing strategy. There is no justice here.
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Old 16th August 2019, 06:15 PM   #2238
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
And when a crime is unable to be prosecuted, the clock should stop for the statute of limitation.
I'm pretty sure that would defeat the whole purpose of the statute of limitation.

And I'm pretty sure that someone holding an elected office which prevents the legal system from pursuing prosecution (of which only one such exists) defeats the whole purpose of the legal system.

Impeachment doesn't count. As has been clearly demonstrated by this Congress, impeachment is dependent on the vagaries of political and ideological tribalism, and is not related to our legal system of pursuing crimes and criminals in any meaningful fashion.
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Old 18th August 2019, 09:26 AM   #2239
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I wonder if there would be any sort of precedent about "normally we couldn't prosecute due to statute of limitations, but because Trump was untouchable while president, we will assume the 'clock had stopped' for those 4 years".)

Granted, it might be overturned by the Trump-friendly supreme court.
The general term is called "tolling" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolling_(law) ) and the wiki page doesn't specify the presidency; here following is an actual legal perspective about the current pres and tolling: https://www.lawfareblog.com/equitabl...tion-president

HTH


Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm pretty sure that would defeat the whole purpose of the statute of limitation.
Well, since tolling has been around since the times of common law and is firmly entrenched in American jurisprudence, I think we can safely say that the statute of limitations isn't threatened and Armageddon is still far, far away so there is no need to fear.
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Old 19th August 2019, 05:48 AM   #2240
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
The general term is called "tolling" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolling_(law) ) and the wiki page doesn't specify the presidency; here following is an actual legal perspective about the current pres and tolling: https://www.lawfareblog.com/equitabl...tion-president

HTH



Well, since tolling has been around since the times of common law and is firmly entrenched in American jurisprudence, I think we can safely say that the statute of limitations isn't threatened and Armageddon is still far, far away so there is no need to fear.
Thanks.
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