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Tags donald trump , Mueller investigation , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , William Barr

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Old 3rd August 2019, 05:11 PM   #3321
theprestige
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I believe The Great Zaganza was referring to Mueller having the stamina of going through the courts to subpoena Trump's under oath testimony.
Ah, thanks. That makes sense.
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Old 3rd August 2019, 05:14 PM   #3322
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My position is that if he legitimately had the evidence - if he knew for an indictable fact - that Donald Trump had conspired to steal the election, then he should have gone for an indictment. Rules be damned. The man's retiring anyway. What does it matter to him if he gets cockblocked trying to bring Trump to justice? At least he would have done his best to make it right, instead of relying on Congress to read between the lines of his report and figure it out.
The problem is that your position doesn't describe the man that Mueller is. He has played it by the rulebook his entire life, so there was never any chance of him saying "Rules be damned." Your expectations of him go against the very grain of the man.

I would have loved to have seen him walk Trump out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs, but the fact is that he is driven by both a desire for Justice, and a desire to be perfectly fair. That meant that he was not only unable to indict because of the memo, but also that he had to remain fair to Trump and not directly say that Trump committed crimes. That he actually came out and said what he did, that they couldn't exonerate Trump of committing crime, probably already stretched his need to remain fair and impartial to its absolute limit as it was. To expect more really is to not understand the guy.
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Old 4th August 2019, 06:25 AM   #3323
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
All this shows is that a lot of people really had the totally wrong expectations of what Mueller was going to say. Anyone that had been paying attention to what was going on would not have been surprised by his performance. He masterfully wasted the questioner's time when he didn't want to answer the questions, he made the Republican questioners look like a bunch of crazed Conspiracy theists, and he gave the Democrats virtually no rope to use him as the executioner for Trump. He played it perfectly non-partisanly, and make sure that never side had sound-bites that they could use to claim victory, while at the same time making sure to stand by and confirm the report he and his people worked on. Anyone that expected more than that was fooling themselves. Anyone who honestly expecting him to declare that Trump committed crimes and should be Impeached was totally delusional, just as delusional as anyone that expected him to state that Trump had been exonerated.

I expect this is a typo. In the event that it is it remains remarkably apropos.

If it is not then it is brilliantly done.

In either case I will keep it in mind for later use.

Thanks.
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Old 4th August 2019, 12:33 PM   #3324
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Moved from another thread where it would have been off topic....

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
We have email exchanges in which a senior member of the Trump campaign gleefully accepts a meeting with someone offering the support of the Russian government.

We have the numerous lies that followed to cover up that meeting and hide its true to intent.

Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Well, with all of that evidence you have, I suggest you call the FBI and let them know that you have proof of conspiracy. 19 prosecutors and 40 FBI agents spent two years and $32 million unsuccessfully looking for what you have found.
Again, you either spin the facts to suit your narrative, or ignore them completely .

The 19 prosecutors and 40 FBI agents were successful in finding what they were looking for.....

1. That members of the Trump campaign were offered help from the Kremlin, and both accepted and used that help, and then lied about it while trying to keep it secret, and

2. That Trump made several blatant attempts to obstruct the investigation into him, and to tamper with witnesses against him.

These ARE the facts, and if you had bothered to actually read the Mueller Report (and I have more than once) you would know this.

INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE DOES NOT MEAN NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!!

The only reason that other members of the Trump campaign have not been prosecuted is that the evidence they DID find was not sufficient to meet the minimum "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" standard.

The only reason Trump has not been charged with obstruction of justice, is because of the OLC Memo that a sitting president cannot be indicted. However, we know that Trump can be indicted once he leaves office (Mueller told us that if you bothered to listen). Ergo, the evidence of obstruction of justice evidence DOES meet BRD standard.

Additionally, 1024 bipartisan former line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice, have now signed their names to an open letter stating that if Trump weren't president of the United States, he would have been indicted on multiple charges for obstruction of justice and witness tampering. All their opinions are based entirely on what Mueller stated in his report.

https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1
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Old 4th August 2019, 06:26 PM   #3325
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AND the Mueller investigation also scored a net positive of over $10-million.
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Old 4th August 2019, 06:32 PM   #3326
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AND the Mueller investigation also scored a net positive of over $10-million.
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Old 5th August 2019, 12:48 PM   #3327
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The problem is that your position doesn't describe the man that Mueller is. He has played it by the rulebook his entire life, so there was never any chance of him saying "Rules be damned." Your expectations of him go against the very grain of the man.

I would have loved to have seen him walk Trump out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs, but the fact is that he is driven by both a desire for Justice, and a desire to be perfectly fair. That meant that he was not only unable to indict because of the memo, but also that he had to remain fair to Trump and not directly say that Trump committed crimes. That he actually came out and said what he did, that they couldn't exonerate Trump of committing crime, probably already stretched his need to remain fair and impartial to its absolute limit as it was. To expect more really is to not understand the guy.
To me at least, there are 2 big questions:

1) Is it possible for someone to attempt to be SO unbiased that their unbias actually becomes a form of bias.

For example, lets say someone says "the earth is flat". You hire someone to determine if the earth is flat. They take all sorts of measurements, talk to all sorts of experts, and at the end they write a report that contains all sorts of technical information that discounts the flat earth theory, without explicitly saying "No dummy, the earth is round". That is giving more credence to the flat earth theory than is allowed.

Now, compare that to the Mueller situation.... there is more than enough evidence to surmise that Trump broke the law. Even if Mueller didn't come right out and say "Trump=guilty", he could have been a bit more direct in his statements, along the lines of "this would warrant charges if he were not the president". Or even give a more direct criticism of Barr's summary. (The law is not always black and white.. there is usually some wiggle room.)

2) Did Mueller go after everyone he could have. Even if Trump himself were off limits, he could have (for example) pursued perjury charges against Trump Jr. and Kushner (which should have fit within his mandate of laying charges in crimes he encounters during his investigations.)
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Old 5th August 2019, 03:57 PM   #3328
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The FOIA case for publicly releasing the redacted portions of the Mueller report has moved a step forwards
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Old 8th August 2019, 02:37 AM   #3329
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Not entirely sure if this is the right thread for this any more, but...: https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/stat...76245273341961

Quote:
BREAKING: Pelosi confirms in letter that Judiciary Committee will go to court TODAY to force Don McGahn to testify.

The suit -- which still hasn't posted publicly yet -- comes more than two months after McGahn first blew off a Judiciary Committee subpoena, deferring to the Trump White House's claim that he was immune from testifying.
Article embedded in tweet.
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Old 8th August 2019, 03:50 AM   #3330
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It's as good as any. I am guessing this court process could drag on for years?
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Old 17th August 2019, 12:17 PM   #3331
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The problem is that your position doesn't describe the man that Mueller is. He has played it by the rulebook his entire life, so there was never any chance of him saying "Rules be damned." Your expectations of him go against the very grain of the man..
If Mueller is such a straight cat, then it is strange that a federal judge, Dabney Friedrich, had to rebuke Mueller and the Justice department for making claims not backed up by any evidence regarding the IRA(Internet Research Agency), a Russian troll farm specializing in click-bait, and its supposed links to the Russian government.

"...in a newly unsealed July 1 ruling, a federal judge rebuked Mueller and the Justice Department for suggesting that the troll farm's social media activities "were undertaken on behalf of, if not at the direction of, the Russian government." U.S. District Judge Dabney Friedrich said Mueller's February 2018 indictment "does not link the [IRA] to the Russian government" and alleges "only private conduct by private actors." The judge added the government's statements violate a prohibiting lawyers from making claims that would prejudice a case."
RCI

"In short, the Court concludes that the government violated Rule 57.7 by making or authorizing the release of public statements that linked the defendants’ alleged activities to the Russian government and provided an opinion about the defendants’ guilt and the evidence against them. The Court will therefore proceed to consider the appropriate response to that violation, beginning with the possibility of contempt."

The government was ordered "...to refrain from making or authorizing any public statement that links the alleged conspiracy in the indictment to the Russian government or its agencies."

So did Mueller hold his May press conference to avoid a contempt charge? Tom McClintock asked him about his May press conference during his testimony.

McCLINTOCK: In -- in -- in fact, the judge considering -- considered holding prosecutors in criminal contempt. She backed off, only after your hastily called press conference the next day in which you retroactively made the distinction between the Russian government and the Russia troll farms. Did your press conference on May 29th have anything to do with the threat to hold your prosecutors in contempt the previous day for publicly misrepresenting the evidence?

MUELLER: What was the question?

McCLINTOCK: The -- the question is, did your May 29th press conference have anything to do with the fact that the previous day the judge threatened to hold your prosecutors in contempt for misrepresenting evidence?

MUELLER: No.

So did Mueller lie to Congress?

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
1. That members of the Trump campaign were offered help from the Kremlin, and both accepted and used that help, and then lied about it while trying to keep it secret,
Can you provide some more details on members of the Trump campaign being offered help from the Kremlin and accepting and using that help?
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Old 17th August 2019, 12:22 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
If Mueller is such a straight cat, then it is strange that a federal judge, Dabney Friedrich, had to rebuke Mueller and the Justice department for making claims not backed up by any evidence regarding the IRA(Internet Research Agency), a Russian troll farm specializing in click-bait, and its supposed links to the Russian government.

"...in a newly unsealed July 1 ruling, a federal judge rebuked Mueller and the Justice Department for suggesting that the troll farm's social media activities "were undertaken on behalf of, if not at the direction of, the Russian government." U.S. District Judge Dabney Friedrich said Mueller's February 2018 indictment "does not link the [IRA] to the Russian government" and alleges "only private conduct by private actors." The judge added the government's statements violate a prohibiting lawyers from making claims that would prejudice a case."
RCI

"In short, the Court concludes that the government violated Rule 57.7 by making or authorizing the release of public statements that linked the defendants’ alleged activities to the Russian government and provided an opinion about the defendants’ guilt and the evidence against them. The Court will therefore proceed to consider the appropriate response to that violation, beginning with the possibility of contempt."

The government was ordered "...to refrain from making or authorizing any public statement that links the alleged conspiracy in the indictment to the Russian government or its agencies."

So did Mueller hold his May press conference to avoid a contempt charge? Tom McClintock asked him about his May press conference during his testimony.

McCLINTOCK: In -- in -- in fact, the judge considering -- considered holding prosecutors in criminal contempt. She backed off, only after your hastily called press conference the next day in which you retroactively made the distinction between the Russian government and the Russia troll farms. Did your press conference on May 29th have anything to do with the threat to hold your prosecutors in contempt the previous day for publicly misrepresenting the evidence?

MUELLER: What was the question?

McCLINTOCK: The -- the question is, did your May 29th press conference have anything to do with the fact that the previous day the judge threatened to hold your prosecutors in contempt for misrepresenting evidence?

MUELLER: No.

So did Mueller lie to Congress?



Can you provide some more details on members of the Trump campaign being offered help from the Kremlin and accepting and using that help?

Dabney Friedrich; Trump appointed lackey

No surprises there
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Old 21st August 2019, 03:01 AM   #3333
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A collection of essays summarising the Mueller report
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Old 22nd August 2019, 12:38 AM   #3334
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

There are some particularly interesting essays in there, especially with regards to Mike Flynn

This one by Mimi Rocah...
https://www.justsecurity.org/65863/e...s/#IncidentOne

...and this one by Barb McQuade
https://www.justsecurity.org/65863/e...ithRussiaFlynn

Those members of the Trump Transition team (Flynn, KT McFarland, Bannon, Priebus etc) lied and cheated and broke the law routinely and with impunity, on a daily basis!
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Old 24th August 2019, 05:45 PM   #3335
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Mueller looks like a traitor himself, providing the report then turning prosecution over to the Criminal in Chief.


I've been listening to Trump's lawyers challenge to the House subpoenas of Deutsche Bank records on Trump, and the case the House is presenting. The Trump lawyers argument is claiming the House cannot investigate Trump's personal finances.

The House lawyers are arguing the Trump family is a "criminal enterprise" involved in money laundering on a massive scale.

How was this "criminal enterprise" not investigated by the FBI years ago?

Turns out Trump's tax records are included in the bank's records. They're going to get Trump's records one way or another.

I can see Rapey McRapeface paying Trump back ruling against the subpoenas, but I can't see Roberts ruling against them. Thomas is a criminal himself, he'll rule in Trump's favor. I have no idea how Alito views a massive "criminal enterprise": all power to the POTUS, or, good grief, I only signed on to rule against Roe v Wade.

This stuff doesn't seem to have blown up in the news yet. Or has it and it's not reaching DW and France 24?

From search:
Quote:
Bannon described Trump Organization as 'criminal enterprise ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ael-wolff-book
May 29, 2019 ... Former White House adviser says financial investigations will take down ... has described the Trump Organization as a criminal entity and predicted that ... Jared Kushner, campaign manager Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer. ... York state are now investigating its relationship with Trump and his family.

Why The Trump Organization Now Risks Being Charged As A ...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede...al-enterprise/
Mar 6, 2019 ... If the Trump Organization were to be convicted as a criminal enterprise ... Michael Cohen, testifies before the House Oversight Committee (Photo by ... in Trump's inaugural committee, while Congress has called on the FBI to ... When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, they have the ...

Dems ask FBI to probe if Trump Org is 'criminal enterprise'
https://www.apnews.com/bdf6e4d32aa74c1b9c7b1860cfb66f49
Feb 13, 2019 ... NEW YORK (AP) — A group of House Democrats asked the FBI on Wednesday to ... President Donald Trump's company is a "criminal enterprise" after mass firings at two ... “Our employees are like family but when presented with fake ... Earlier this month, New York Attorney General Letitia James called for ...

'30-year criminal enterprise:' Investigations look at Trump's life from ...
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/3...gles-1.6747323
Dec 17, 2018 ... Investigations now entangle Donald Trump's White House, campaign, transition, ... All of this with the first special counsel investigation against a president in 20 years hanging ... At worst, the probes are a threat to the presidency, Trump's family and his business interests. ... “I call it the everybody conspiracy.

Steve Bannon allegedly described President Trump's business ...
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/29/ste...al-enterprise/
May 29, 2019 ... Trump's former chief strategist says the president runs a "criminal enterprise" ... described the real estate mogul's business empire as a "criminal enterprise" ... in the conference room on the 25th floor with no lawyers," Bannon told Wolff. ... to think it's all of that — you should have called the FBI immediately.".

Trump the mob boss wants protection - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...28d_story.html
Aug 23, 2018 ... “I feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. ... A few days earlier, Trump had referred to John Dean, the White House counsel whose ... Trump speaks as though the Trump Organization, the Trump campaign and the Trump administration were one long continuing criminal enterprise.

Trump Is Running A 'Criminal Enterprise' And Mueller Is 'On the ...
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-runni...c-chair-760129
Dec 27, 2017 ... Instead, he was putting his faith in special counsel Robert Mueller's probe into ... "I think he's running a criminal enterprise out of the White House, and I ... while some customers called out the low quality of her merchandise.

Steve Bannon Thinks Trump's Business Career Is Criminal Enterprise
https://www.newsweek.com/thats-donal...e-says-1442240
Jun 5, 2019 ... Former presidential adviser Steve Bannon believed that Donald Trump headed a criminal enterprise, the author of the latest White House ...

Howard Dean: Trump is running a 'criminal enterprise out of the ...
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...t-of-the-white
Dec 27, 2017 ... During a segment an MSNBC host said Trump is "constantly vacationing to promote his own properties. ... "I think he's running a criminal enterprise out of the White House and I ... Special counsel Robert Mueller is currently investigating the ... his campaign and Russia and has called the probe a "witch hunt.

Joe Lockhart: 'Trump Was Running a Criminal Enterprise Out of the ...
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/joe-lock...-organization/
Feb 22, 2019 ... CNN contributor and former White House Press Secretary Joe Lockhart offered harsh ... on Dancing With the Stars One Judge Called Him an 'Awful Mess' ... expected to be revealed by the former Trump Organization lawyer under oath ... out of the Trump organization, that's really where the mother load is.”.
(The links may not work if they are truncated but you guys can figure it out.)
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Old 26th August 2019, 02:32 AM   #3336
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Mueller looks like a traitor himself, providing the report then turning prosecution over to the Criminal in Chief.
He turned it over to his boss, which is the opposite of being disloyal.
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Old 26th August 2019, 03:17 AM   #3337
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Mueller looks like a traitor himself, providing the report then turning prosecution over to the Criminal in Chief.
What was he supposed to do with it?
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Old 26th August 2019, 06:52 AM   #3338
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What was he supposed to do with it?
Leak it to the press.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:20 AM   #3339
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Quote:
Mueller looks like a traitor himself, providing the report then turning prosecution over to the Criminal in Chief.
What was he supposed to do with it?
Speaking for myself, there were a couple of things he could have done:

1) Been more aggressive in his prosecutions and investigations. Yes, during his investigation, Mueller had a lot of indictments handed down. But there was more he could have done. Go after more people in Trump's inner circle. (Supposedly Kushner and Trump Jr. were 'saved' because it was determined they were too incompetent to conspire. But, there's evidence that they were guilty of things like perjury. So go after them for that (and whatever else they might be found in your investigations.) Push harder for an interview with Trump. (I know he wouldn't have cooperated, but it would have been more obvious that Trump was being deceptive.) And I'm sure there was a lot more that could have been uncovered and more people charged: For example, Butina was only a footnote in the investigation, whereas it could have uncovered a whole can of worms with regards to Russian interference, the NRA and the GOP.

Instead, by stopping when he did, Mueller passed responsibility for a lot of the remaining investigations and prosecutions on to Barr and the Trump administration.

2) Been more assertive in defending his work and rebuking critics. When Trump claimed the report 'Totally exonerated' him, what we got from Mueller was a lot of silence, and eventually a 'neither condemns nor exonerates' statement. Every time Trump used the word 'exonerate' Mueller should have been right there to say "Trump is lying. The report doesn't exonerate him." And state (in plain words) that Trump did not cooperate with the investigation. And he could have stated that Barr's initial letter explaining the report to congress was bunk.

I remember seeing a news clip with Mueller addressing congress. One of the Democrats asked Mueller to read a section of the report. (That's a common thing to happen with these interviews... you would have had a clip of Mueller personally giving a section of the report with his own voice.) Instead Mueller said no, and had the Democrat read the section of the report instead. (The information still made it into the official records, but it wasn't as effective in drawing attention to the issue compared to Mueller reading it himself.)

By failing to rebuke Trump and point out when Trump and his allies were lying, he let them control the dialog.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:26 AM   #3340
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I seem to recall a whole narrative coming up around Manafort's(?) indictment on charges having nothing to do with the Russian Collusion question, as being part of a deal whereby Manafort was giving up the goods on the Russian Collusion in exchange for the lesser charges. We needed to wait until the report was published, to see the full extent of Mueller's strategy.

Now the report has been published. It turns out those indictments for unrelated crimes and process crimes were actually the high water mark for Mueller's investigation.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:32 AM   #3341
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I seem to recall a whole narrative coming up around Manafort's(?) indictment on charges having nothing to do with the Russian Collusion question, as being part of a deal whereby Manafort was giving up the goods on the Russian Collusion in exchange for the lesser charges. We needed to wait until the report was published, to see the full extent of Mueller's strategy.

Now the report has been published. It turns out those indictments for unrelated crimes and process crimes were actually the high water mark for Mueller's investigation.
Given the fact that the version of the Mueller report that's been released to the public is heavily redacted (with the redaction being controlled by people within the Trump administration), I think it is at best premature (if not totally incorrect) to think that there wasn't more dirt uncovered via Manfort's role.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:41 AM   #3342
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A Russian Collusion of the Gaps theory?
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:47 AM   #3343
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A Russian Collusion of the Gaps theory?
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:52 AM   #3344
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A Russian Collusion of the Gaps theory?
No, a "keys to the chicken coup turned over to the foxes" theory.

The Mueller report was given to people in the Trump administration. Those same people:
1) have a motive to engage in covering up damaging information
2) have been known to engage in deceiptful activities, both outside of the Mueller report/Russian investigation, and following its release.

We know Trump lied... about the results of the report (exonerate!). We know Barr lied too, for example regarding the white house "fully cooperating" with the investigation. When you have individuals who have lied, and then redacted a report, its natural to be suspicious for the reasons for the redacted sections.
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Old 26th August 2019, 09:20 AM   #3345
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A Russian Collusion of the Gaps theory?
Yep

"You are only allowed to look for Collusion in this Gap, and if there isn't incontestable proof there, I'm innocent."
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Old 26th August 2019, 09:29 AM   #3346
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Given the fact that the version of the Mueller report that's been released to the public is heavily redacted (with the redaction being controlled by people within the Trump administration), I think it is at best premature (if not totally incorrect) to think that there wasn't more dirt uncovered via Manfort's role.
More to the point, there are several other ongoing investigations, including a counterintelligence investigation, that Mueller has passed information on to.
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Old 26th August 2019, 09:40 AM   #3347
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Quote:
Given the fact that the version of the Mueller report that's been released to the public is heavily redacted (with the redaction being controlled by people within the Trump administration), I think it is at best premature (if not totally incorrect) to think that there wasn't more dirt uncovered via Manfort's role.
More to the point, there are several other ongoing investigations, including a counterintelligence investigation, that Mueller has passed information on to.
The problem is, some of the people that have taken up some of the ongoing investigations are influenced by the Trump administration. For example, anything that's been turned over to the Department of Justice might get squashed by Barr, regardless of the merits of the case.
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Old 26th August 2019, 09:51 AM   #3348
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Everything turned over to the Justice Department HAS been squashed by Barr. He terminated every Mueller spinoff investigation in his purview withing 10 days of assuming his role.
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Old 26th August 2019, 11:10 AM   #3349
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Rob Porter has been subpoena'd by the House Judiciary Committee, though I see this ending like all of the others. With Trump claiming executive privilege over the communications and Porter declining to show up. After all, nothing major has happened to the others that have done the same:

Originally Posted by NBCNews
WASHINGTON — The House Judiciary Committee issued a subpoena Monday to Rob Porter, a former White House aide whose close proximity to President Donald Trump is potentially of significant value to Democratic lawmakers amid growing calls for a formal impeachment inquiry.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:10 PM   #3350
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He turned it over to his boss, which is the opposite of being disloyal.
Seriously, why are you bothering with this dishonest apologetics?
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:14 PM   #3351
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What was he supposed to do with it?
Well let's see. He could have spoken up that anyone in the Trump admin he turned it over to should recuse themselves.

He could have gone to Congress (the House) instead of Trump/Barr.

He could have released it directly to Congress and Barr at the same time.

He could have followed his conscience and did what Mark Felt did.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:16 PM   #3352
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A Russian Collusion of the Gaps theory?
That's an idiotic analogy!
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:17 PM   #3353
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
More to the point, there are several other ongoing investigations, including a counterintelligence investigation, that Mueller has passed information on to.
Are those the same investigations Barr shut down?
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:20 PM   #3354
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Rob Porter has been subpoena'd by the House Judiciary Committee, though I see this ending like all of the others. With Trump claiming executive privilege over the communications and Porter declining to show up. After all, nothing major has happened to the others that have done the same:
Meanwhile, the House is fighting the DoJ and Trump's attorneys to subpoena Deutsche Bank records, and they have a good case against Trump's "criminal enterprise."
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:10 PM   #3355
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Given the fact that the version of the Mueller report that's been released to the public is heavily redacted (with the redaction being controlled by people within the Trump administration), I think it is at best premature (if not totally incorrect) to think that there wasn't more dirt uncovered via Manfort's role.
How come the unredacted version hasn't been leaked yet?
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:56 PM   #3356
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's an idiotic analogy!
It's pure sophistry. Trump supporters don't care that Trump and his goons have successfully obstructed the Mueller investigation. As long as their guys win, they don't care if crimes were committed.
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Old 26th August 2019, 08:57 PM   #3357
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
How come the unredacted version hasn't been leaked yet?
Mueller's team has too much integrity to do so and now that Barr has it, there is no way it will leak until long after Trump is out of office. Barr did this kind of cover-up before, that's why he was hired.
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Old 26th August 2019, 10:21 PM   #3358
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I seem to recall a whole narrative coming up around Manafort's(?) indictment on charges having nothing to do with the Russian Collusion question, as being part of a deal whereby Manafort was giving up the goods on the Russian Collusion in exchange for the lesser charges. We needed to wait until the report was published, to see the full extent of Mueller's strategy.

Now the report has been published. It turns out those indictments for unrelated crimes and process crimes were actually the high water mark for Mueller's investigation.
In fair part because Mueller specifically declined to actually do anything about the campaign finance felonies (even the ones that ample evidence was found to support despite not specifically seeking such and actually could be irrefutably called collusion) on the basis of reasoning that had already been specifically disallowed by Congress because of how obviously wrong-headed it was and has been ruled against in court. Yes, Mueller definitely did disappoint us by making an error like that. By the look of it, Mueller very likely didn't even look at Trump's tax returns, which also seems like it would be a pretty overwhelmingly glaring error when the mandate was to check for links/coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia.

Democrats largely did hold onto hope and trusted that Mueller was a Republican who wouldn't make such obvious major errors. That was our bad and feel free to laugh at us for our naivety there.
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Old 27th August 2019, 01:31 AM   #3359
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Whether or not Barr has ended any particular investigations has no bearing on whether or not Manafort provided evidence to Mueller that Mueller passed off to other agencies because it was outside the narrow remit that he interpreted his investigation to have.
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Old 27th August 2019, 01:40 AM   #3360
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Whether or not Barr has ended any particular investigations has no bearing on whether or not Manafort provided evidence to Mueller that Mueller passed off to other agencies because it was outside the narrow remit that he interpreted his investigation to have.

There is nothing to stop another AG under the next President (presuming its a Democrat) from reopening those investigations.

There is also noting to stop another AG from releasing the full Mueller Report including all redactions (except for the Grand Jury testimony for which he could go to court to get it released, and if the Republican weighted courts rule against them, the Dems should do it anyway).
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