Merged: Canadian politics: the Justin Trudeau years

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

What did any of that have to do with my question about Erin O'Toole?

He can't conceive of someone opposing the conservatives for any reason other than they love "Prince Justin" and are "Trudites" that are "exactly the same as the Trumpers in the US". Completely ignoring the fact that quite a few of us - as I mentioned in my post above - are former conservative voters who have been driven away from the current Conservative party because of exactly his kind of stupid fact-free nonsense.

As for your first impression being favourable, based on the quoted report, it's pretty simple. He says nice things when he has to, but then his actions belie those words. He went out of his way to recruit the guy behind the "Ontario Proud" and "Canada Proud" memes for his campaign. Those memes are exactly the sort of alt-right propaganda that demonizes immigrants and promotes hate for anyone not on the "right" side of the political spectrum, without regard for the facts. They will lie, distort and spin anything they have to in order to sow division between Canadians, exactly like their alt-right and Trump counterparts in the US. They are everything that's wrong with conservative politics today, and embracing them shows that anything else O'Toole might say is just words.

Plus, there's the "Take Canada Back" slogan. Back from what? From who? More racist dog whistling.

If I thought his words counted more than his actions, I might actually consider voting for him. But I don't.

And I'm not some "Trudite" who "loves Prince Justin". I didn't even vote for him the first time round, and have been looking for an alternative I can vote for in good conscience for years. I even registered to vote in the previous Conservative leadership race that gave us Scheer because I'd hoped to produce a more reasonable option. The fact that I'm almost certainly going to vote Liberal next time is entirely down to the fact that the Conservatives have been going out of their way to drive me away from their party for years now. That's all on them, and has nothing to do with rockinkt's fantasies about why I won't vote for O'Toole.

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by rockinkt

Because this THREAD is about Canadian Politics. Because it doesn't matter what evidence you give about any member of any party that is not Liberal or NDP - the Liberals will always bring up comparisons to Trump and the Republicans because the Liberal supporters are brain dead sycophants exactly like the Trump supporters.

Well, I'll have you know Prince Justin has been annoited by God to run this country, the same as his father Saint Pierre de Trudeau was a generation ago. Wherever the Prince walks flowers spontaneously sprout from the ground, the rain stops to allow him passage, and the (mountain) lion lays down with the lamb. Under his brilliant leadership Canada has been vaulted to the forefront of the nations, and Canadians everywhere are lauded for their wisdom is choosing such a man as he to lead them and be a shining light on a hill for the nations.

[/sarcasm]

I'm still a supporter of small-L liberal ideas, but for sure the shine has gone off Trudeau. He reminds me a lot of what might happen if I got that job: a heart of good intentions, but a tendency to step into the dog poop. Every few months something happens that embarrasses him personally, and a lot of is seems to be an inability to think ahead and foresee potential problems. The blackface stuff was wall before he likely even thought of becoming prime minister. Since then? The Christmas vacation to the Aga Khan's island, the bumbled India trip, the little "elbow-gate" kerfuffle, the SNC-Lavain affair, and now the WE controversy ... Trudeau just keeps tripping up.

And aside from medical aid in dying and the decriminalization of marijuana, he's had a less than stellar legislative output. You could say that at least nowhere near as much of his legislation has been thrown out by the courts (Harper's record on that was pretty poor,) but mostly that's because he hasn't really done anything.

I believe his government did an excellent job negotiating the new free trade deal, especially in the face of a very hostile opponent lead by an ignorant buffoon. He's done a fair job on the pandemic; it looks great when compared to the disaster that's taken hold south of us, but to me Germany stands out as the country to be envied.

Now just because I prefer liberal ideas to conservative ones (look how well the current brand of conservatism has served the States,) I'd prefer not to be lumped in brain-dead sycophants. Both liberals and conservatives have useful things to contribute to politics as long as they don't stray too far left or right. Unfortunately, "too far" is really hard to define. Your "too far left" liberal is probably my "rigid centrist."


Also, I'd like to provide evidence for your allegations that WE is a scam charity. When I hear that word, I think of an organization that raises huge amounts of money for a good cause, only to have 80% of it evaporate into administrative costs and only 20% going to those the charity was intended to serve. Do you have evidence to that effect?

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by Horatius

As for your first impression being favourable, based on the quoted report, it's pretty simple. He says nice things when he has to, but then his actions belie those words. He went out of his way to recruit the guy behind the "Ontario Proud" and "Canada Proud" memes for his campaign. Those memes are exactly the sort of alt-right propaganda that demonizes immigrants and promotes hate for anyone not on the "right" side of the political spectrum, without regard for the facts. They will lie, distort and spin anything they have to in order to sow division between Canadians, exactly like their alt-right and Trump counterparts in the US. They are everything that's wrong with conservative politics today, and embracing them shows that anything else O'Toole might say is just words.

Plus, there's the "Take Canada Back" slogan. Back from what? From who? More racist dog whistling.

If I thought his words counted more than his actions, I might actually consider voting for him. But I don't.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to keep my eye on him. Like you sad, actions speak louder than words. He has an opportunity to live up to the words I heard him say, but he could well end up acting badly.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to keep my eye on him. Like you sad, actions speak louder than words. He has an opportunity to live up to the words I heard him say, but he could well end up acting badly.

At this point, everyone in Canada can see exactly where this style of rhetoric leads - just by looking at the US. The people behind this know that they're playing with fire, and they no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The conservatives in Canada have had three chances now to distance themselves from this style of politics - the last two Federal Conservative leadership races, and the Ontario PC leadership race - and in every one, they've come down on the side of someone who at least panders to these people, if not outright embracing them, like O'Toole has done. At some point, you have to decide they're choosing these people because they actually approve of this.

If the Conservatives want my vote, they need to take active steps to curb this side of their party, and keep taking them long enough to convince me they're serious about it.

[Segnosaur]

Speaking of O'Toole... The conservative leader has tested positive for Covid19. Likely caught from a staffer. In self-isolation but feels fine. His family tested negative.

Maybe he was just jealous that Trudeau got to spend that time in quarantine months ago and wanted the same experience.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/eri...d-19-1.5730964

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

[Segnosaur]

A story that seems to have fallen by the wayside...

Former Prime Minister John Turner died September 19 at the age of 91. (Not sure what the cause of death is, but I assume something natural, given his age.)

Turner did not exactly have a good run as the head of the Liberal party....

- He had the second shortest time as Prime Minister, since he called an election (and lost) shortly after winning the leadership

- He lead the Liberals to what was its worst loss (at the time), going from being the ruling party to having only 40 seats (giving Mulroney one of the biggest majorities ever)

- He was beset by a series of gaffes, including: Patting a major Liberal leader on the behind , an election debate where he made the rather famous comment "I had no Option" (regarding various appointments that were made by the liberals), and a habit of flicking his tongue that made people think he was part ant-eater.

[Horatius]

So, fellow Canadians (I assume none of the Yanks read this thread, so we're safe here!), I have a question.

Considering the likelihood that the upcoming US election is a complete **** show, how do you think the Canadian Government should respond? Should we respond at all?


Possible scenarios:

1) Massive Trump Win.

Trump does the impossible, and actually wins bigly. Not just the EC, but a clear plurality, maybe even a majority of the popular vote. Least likely outcome, but possible.

2) Questionable Trump Win.

Pulls the EC win trick again, but there's credible evidence that several of the key states' votes were suppressed, or outright discarded. There is likely to be a Biden challenge in at least some cases.

3) Borderline Biden Win.

Biden wins enough states to take the EC, probably has a majority in the popular vote, but just one or two states being flipped could reverse the EC result. Trump goes all out in suing everyone in sight, declares every non-Trump vote a fraud, refuses to concede, does everything in his power (and then some) to overturn the election results. This is probably the worst case scenario.

4) Massive Biden Win.

Biden takes a decisive win in the EC, with a large majority nationally, and decent majorities in all the swing states. Everyone with a brain knows there's no amount of court challenges that could realistically overturn this vote. Of course, Trump tries anyways, but the Republican Party likely decides to cut their losses, and abandon him.


In 1 and 4, I think we're safe in publicly congratulating the winner as we usually do. Although in case 1, I expect Justin will be biting his tongue the whole time.

2 and 3 are a bit trickier. Were it not the US having these problems, I have no doubt that the Canadian government would be willing to make some sort of pronouncement of support for proper democratic norms, and would probably be willing to weigh in on who most likely won based on what sources we have available to us.

But with the US? Would we want to take the risk of coming down on the wrong side of Trump if he manages to stay in power?

And if we do take that risk - what exactly should we do? I have a few thoughts, but I'd like to see some others before I get into them.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Horatius

Considering the likelihood that the upcoming US election is a complete **** show, how do you think the Canadian Government should respond? Should we respond at all?

I think we should be polite, but take no crap. That pretty much covers all contingencies.

[Horatius]

Seems like I'm not the only one wondering about what Canada should be doing:

Quote:

Canada has no plans right now to send an official team of observers to the U.S. election, government sources have confirmed.

But with Donald Trump’s increasing reluctance to see the vote as legitimate, Canada might want to start rethinking that decision in the days ahead.

This country has sent election observers to all kinds of fragile democracies over the years. The sad fact is that the United States, thanks largely to Trump, is fast becoming one of them.

If Trump decides to dispute the results of the Nov. 3 vote — as he appeared to indicate during this week’s raucous presidential debate — Canada needs its own eyes and ears on the ground, and soon.

[AnonyMoose]

Canada needs to be doing what it should have started doing the minute Trump got elected the first time: Get the majority of our eggs out of the US basket.

We need to distance ourselves as far as possible from this sinking ship, lest it drag us down with it. New trade and alliance agreements with as many other countries as possible, particularly with our fellow commonwealth brethren. That commonwealth alliance may very well prove to be worth its weight in gold now at this particular time in history, more so than ever before?

The USA is no longer a stable trustworthy ally, thus we need to prepare ourselves accordingly. We need to make sure that country's instability and neverending soap opera has the least amount of negative impact on our bottom line as possible.

I hope our country's leaders are already well in front of that eight-ball as we speak.




Oh.... and build a wall!

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by AnonyMoose

Canada needs to be doing what it should have started doing the minute Trump got elected the first time: Get the majority of our eggs out of the US basket.

We need to distance ourselves as far as possible from this sinking ship, lest it drag us down with it. New trade and alliance agreements with as many other countries as possible, particularly with our fellow commonwealth brethren. That commonwealth alliance may very well prove to be worth its weight in gold now at this particular time in history, more so than ever before?

The USA is no longer a stable trustworthy ally, thus we need to prepare ourselves accordingly. We need to make sure that country's instability and neverending soap opera has the least amount of negative impact on our bottom line as possible.

I hope our country's leaders are already well in front of that eight-ball as we speak.

In my opinion, the current state of the US is an aberration from the norm. If Biden wins the upcoming election things will settle down a lot.

Quote:

Oh.... and build a wall!

And get the US to pay for it!

[AnonyMoose]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

In my opinion, the current state of the US is an aberration from the norm. If Biden wins the upcoming election things will settle down a lot.


And get the US to pay for it!

It doesn't matter if Biden wins or not. What Trump's presidency (laugh cough laugh) has taught us is that any idiot can get elected and then step into the White House and reverse everything the previous prez has done. But not only can that idiot reverse everything, he/she can come along and throw the entire chess board right out the window, rewriting the game in whatever way they damn well please. The USA has zero checks and balances on how their government operates. Those lack of internal controls impacts the rest of us.

This makes the USA unstable and unreliable as a trade partner and an ally.

The damage Trump has done goes much much deeper than just the current timeline that he's currently occupying... it doesn't matter who follows him after, the damage is done. The USA will never recoup their previous standing on the world stage, and that will have a permanent impact on every aspect of their global relationships with other nations.

The trust is gone.

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by AnonyMoose

... The damage Trump has done goes much much deeper than just the current timeline that he's currently occupying... it doesn't matter who follows him after, the damage is done. The USA will never recoup their previous standing on the world stage, and that will have a permanent impact on every aspect of their global relationships with other nations.

The trust is gone.

You may be closer to the truth than I'm willing to admit. One quote I've heard is, "It takes ten minutes to gain trust, ten seconds to lose trust, and ten years to gain it back again." That was in the context of individuals trusting other people.

One way to look at it is how long was it before Canadians and Americans started trusting Germany and Japan after WW II? Germany's rather well thought of on the world stage right now. We've been buying Japanese and Korean automobiles for years, even though their political image has taken a beating with their decade long recession and Fukushima.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Horatius

So, fellow Canadians (I assume none of the Yanks read this thread, so we're safe here!), I have a question.

Considering the likelihood that the upcoming US election is a complete **** show, how do you think the Canadian Government should respond? Should we respond at all?

Here is the problem...

The Canadian government can do everything they can to suck up to Trump. Trudeau can get the CBC to show reruns of The Apprentice 24/7. They can declare Trump's birthday to be a National holiday. And Trump will be happy...

For a very short period of time.

Then the moment one of Trump's advisors whispers something different in his ear, or the moment he think its politically expedient, Trump will turn on Canada. We would have been no better off than if we simply gave a big "meh!"

[Segnosaur]

Annnndddd... its been approved.

From: CBC (The Mother Corp)
The federal government has given the green light to the Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine... Dr. Howard Njoo, Canada's deputy chief public health officer, said Wednesday 249,000 doses of the two-dose Pfizer vaccine will be on hand by year's end — shots primarily earmarked for long-term care home residents and the staff working there. Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading vaccination logistics at the national operations centre, said he expects the initial run of shots will be shipped from a Pfizer plant in Belgium on Friday....as many as six million doses will arrive in the first three months of 2021...The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) said today the country will begin immunizing non-priority populations — people other than the elderly, health care workers and some adults in Indigenous communities – in April 2021.

A few points:

- The distribution sort of makes sense (I am assuming front line health care workers to be some of the first recipients), although I can think of a few other at-risk groups (such as those involved in labor intensive service industries, like meat packing) that should also be a high priority

- Its good we are getting the vaccine from a European source. We've seen the U.S. government seize medical equipment that was produced in the states... last thing we need is to have Trump demanding the U.S. government confiscate any vaccines destined for other countries

[AnonyMoose]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Annnndddd... its been approved.

From: CBC (The Mother Corp)
The federal government has given the green light to the Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine... Dr. Howard Njoo, Canada's deputy chief public health officer, said Wednesday 249,000 doses of the two-dose Pfizer vaccine will be on hand by year's end — shots primarily earmarked for long-term care home residents and the staff working there. Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the military commander leading vaccination logistics at the national operations centre, said he expects the initial run of shots will be shipped from a Pfizer plant in Belgium on Friday....as many as six million doses will arrive in the first three months of 2021...The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) said today the country will begin immunizing non-priority populations — people other than the elderly, health care workers and some adults in Indigenous communities – in April 2021.

A few points:

- The distribution sort of makes sense (I am assuming front line health care workers to be some of the first recipients), although I can think of a few other at-risk groups (such as those involved in labor intensive service industries, like meat packing) that should also be a high priority

- Its good we are getting the vaccine from a European source. We've seen the U.S. government seize medical equipment that was produced in the states... last thing we need is to have Trump demanding the U.S. government confiscate any vaccines destined for other countries

Yup. I just finished reading the updated online covid info for Manitoba and it looks like the first rollout of vaccines will happen next week. This first rollout will only be enough for 900 persons, with front-line healthcare workers being the first recipients.

After that, the next supply will come sometime around mid December and each resupply will continue from there.

According to the MB government website, the priority lineup will be as follows:

#1 - Front-line healthcare workers
#2 - Elderly persons in care homes
#3 - People over the age of 80
#4 - Adults at risk in northern isolated Indigenous communities
#5 - High risk individuals (cancer patients etc)

... and so on down the line from there.

So over the next few months healthcare workers, elderly, and high risk individuals will be getting vaccinated first. And then the rest of us follow after that (based on age and overall health).

It sounds like this vaccine process will be happening over several months between now and the end of next year. We're finally starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.... but we still have a long ways to go before life starts to get back to normal.


As a side note: I tip my hat to the science communities around the world for how they've handled this nightmare and how quickly they were able to develop these vaccines for us.

Modern day science rocks!

[lomiller]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

In my opinion, the current state of the US is an aberration from the norm. If Biden wins the upcoming election things will settle down a lot.

Wishful thinking.

ANY Democratic President is just going to be a target for the right wing news outlets that created Trump in the first place. When the Republicans are in power it’s all but impossible for them to cover up just how flawed and morally bankrupt right wing ideology has become. When a Democrat is in power they don’t have to waste time defending their own failures and incompetence and can focus on blaming the Democrats foe anything and everything. If they can’t find something real they will invent a controversy and repeat it until their supporters start to believe it’s a real thing.

Come next election the Republicans will either nominate Trump again or nominate someone just as deranged and there is a good chance they will win because the right wing media will have spent the last 4 years attacking Biden while right wing politicians will have blocked any forward movement.

The US may be entering a right wing death spiral and the UK may not be far behind. Make no mistake, the same forces, tactics and ideas destroying those countries are at work in Canada.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by AnonyMoose

Yup. I just finished reading the updated online covid info for Manitoba and it looks like the first rollout of vaccines will happen next week.
...
According to the MB government website, the priority lineup will be as follows:
#1 - Front-line healthcare workers
#2 - Elderly persons in care homes
#3 - People over the age of 80
#4 - Adults at risk in northern isolated Indigenous communities
#5 - High risk individuals (cancer patients etc)

Ontario seems to have the same sort of priority list. I suspect it will be the same everywhere. (I'm not sure how they will do the vaccinations in the isolated Indigenous communities though... since the Pfizer vaccine needs to be kept extremely cold. (I wonder if they'll wait for one of the other vaccines, such as Moderna, which don't have the same requirements for being kept cold.)

Ontario has an extra little twist... it seems like priority here will be given to those in southern Ontario (Toronto/Peel region), because its being harder hit by Covid than the rest of the province. Those of us in Ottawa may have to wait a bit longer.

Quote:

As a side note: I tip my hat to the science communities around the world for how they've handled this nightmare and how quickly they were able to develop these vaccines for us.

Yes, truly amazing how far medical technology has come, and researchers are really doing some amazing things.

Such a far cry from "lets rub this cow on you to see if it stops Smallpox".

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by lomiller

Wishful thinking.

Well, I tend to be a bit of an optimist.

As for the rest of your post, my problem is I believe in a sense of fair play, which obviously the other side doesn't. Some people try to work for win-win, accepting some losses on their own side as long as things keep moving forward. "Two steps forward, one step back" means you're still moving forward, but more slowly than you'd like.

Then there are hard core "accept no loss, take no prisoners" type of people. What's noteable about them is if they get into power, things tend to work out very well—for them. Because they don't care about anyone else, and certainly not for the common good, they're blind to the suffering of those who are outside their little circle of power.

Here's a conundrum for me: do humans make progress in spite of the asshats or because of them? Look at ants. They're very highly organized, and within their own societies things seem to be harmonious: every ant knows its job and does it.* But ants really haven't evolved much in 60 million years. Humans? In a bit over 250,000 years we went from from being these dorky upright bipedal mutants to putting one of our own on the moon. Plus we created the internet, which we're using to communicate. When was the last time you got an email from an ant?

* I note sometimes ants do go on a rampage and try to forcibly take over other colonies. But as far as I know ant colonies generally don't fail due to internal strife.

[Segnosaur]

Former Conservative Prime Minister Mulroney had some emergency surgery...

From:CBC
Former prime minister Brian Mulroney is recovering after undergoing an emergency surgery on Friday.

I have no idea what the surgery was for. Pretty much every source just called it an "urgent Procedure". Chin reduction? Tuna poisoning?

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by lomiller

The US may be entering a right wing death spiral and the UK may not be far behind. Make no mistake, the same forces, tactics and ideas destroying those countries are at work in Canada.

Yeah, they surely are, but it seems like a parliamentary system is a bit harder to game than the US system. You couldn't have someone like Moscow Mitch acting as a roadblock to everything the Democrat House and President want to do, for instance.

Even in a minority government situation like we have now, we're not that bad off, because if someone really did try to pull this with the Liberal government, it's a near-certainly that the NDP would not play along.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Former Conservative Prime Minister Mulroney .... Tuna poisoning?

Now there's an old-school political jibe!

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Horatius

Yeah, they surely are, but it seems like a parliamentary system is a bit harder to game than the US system. You couldn't have someone like Moscow Mitch acting as a roadblock to everything the Democrat House and President want to do, for instance.

I think the opposite is true...

A parliamentary system (especially one like Canada's) would be much easier to game...
- People regularly become prime minister with ~40% of the vote
- The leader of the party has an incredible amount of control over his caucus, including the ability to block them from running for the party
- Party leaders can enforce solidarity (at least in the states, congress critters don't HAVE to vote along party lines.)
- Since the leader of the executive controls the house of commons, the prime minister has a much bigger role in actually passing laws
- The non-fixed election dates gives the incumbent significant power. (Yes, we passed a law that gives us fixed election dates, but there is nothing preventing a prime minister from changing it in the future.)

The fact that Canada hasn't fallen into a U.S.-styled ****-hole run by a bigoted con-artist has more to do with the population and society in general than anything special about our political system. Even the "right wing" conservative party has no interest in challenging abortion or same sex marriage.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I think the opposite is true...

A parliamentary system (especially one like Canada's) would be much easier to game...
- People regularly become prime minister with ~40% of the vote
...

The fact that Canada hasn't fallen into a U.S.-styled ****-hole run by a bigoted con-artist has more to do with the population and society in general than anything special about our political system. Even the "right wing" conservative party has no interest in challenging abortion or same sex marriage.

Well, yeah, but that's part of it. Sure, in theory, someone like Trump could win with 40% of the vote. But that assumes the other 60% all vote without considering the possibility of a Trump-like win. But strategic voting comes into play. If enough 2nd and 3rd party voters decide to vote locally for the candidate most likely to defeat the 1st party candidate, it makes it much harder to win a solid majority in Parliament.

And a minority Conservative government that ruled in a Trump-like fashion would be far more likely to fail a confidence vote than a Liberal or NDP government supported by the other party.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Horatius

Quote:

A parliamentary system (especially one like Canada's) would be much easier to game...
- People regularly become prime minister with ~40% of the vote
...
The fact that Canada hasn't fallen into a U.S.-styled ****-hole run by a bigoted con-artist has more to do with the population and society in general than anything special about our political system. Even the "right wing" conservative party has no interest in challenging abortion or same sex marriage.

Well, yeah, but that's part of it. Sure, in theory, someone like Trump could win with 40% of the vote. But that assumes the other 60% all vote without considering the possibility of a Trump-like win. But strategic voting comes into play. If enough 2nd and 3rd party voters decide to vote locally for the candidate most likely to defeat the 1st party candidate, it makes it much harder to win a solid majority in Parliament.

That's assuming strategic voting actually works.

It assumes that the 2 opposition parties are 1) close enough in policy that a voter could easily switch between them, and 2) far enough apart in policies that the vote would otherwise be a 3-way split instead of a 2-way split.

I just don't think enough people would think to vote that way, and would continue to vote for "their favorite", even if they are likely to end up in 3rd place.

Quote:

And a minority Conservative government that ruled in a Trump-like fashion would be far more likely to fail a confidence vote than a Liberal or NDP government supported by the other party.

Yes, I was assuming that the "Canadian Trump" was the head of a Majority government, as opposed to a minority government. Yes, a minority government would curtail the abuses of a problematic Prime Minister, and minority governments do happen. But Majorities are much more frequent in Canadian politics than Minority governments.

[Delvo]

A major part of how Trump got where he is is the two-party system, for two reasons. First, having one other party to treat as The Enemy Who Must Be Destroyed At All Costs, instead of just one of a few alternatives, makes party unification easier even when a party is stuck with a non-unifying figure. Second, with only one party to "oppose" him, if that one party makes any bad moves, there's no backup.

Another part is the fact that rampant bribery is not just legal but standard operating procedure here, which has incentivized that one other party to make plenty of bad moves.

Finally, even decades before Trump's 2016 Presidential run, there's been a mythos among conservatives/Republicans that the ideal person is a businessperson and politicians are parasites and the reason why government gets things wrong is that it isn't run like a business so the way to straighten government out is to hand it over to a businessperson. In Trump's case, this also depended on a lot of help from media to prop up the myth that Trump was a "businessman" at all, but that wouldn't have mattered politically if one of our two major political categories hadn't been looking for that kind of ultimate-businessman image in the first place; the illusion would have only made him a curiosity for fans of things like "Lifestyles Of The Rich & Famous", not a Messiah-like perfect fit for what a lot of people were already hoping would come to politics someday.

Those three things are Canada's main protection against trumps. Without those, this other stuff yall are talking about in the last few posts are nothing to worry about.

[Horatius]

I think here in Ontario, we may have hit Peak COVID Stupidity: I saw someone on Facebook calling Doug Ford a Communist because of the Ontario lockdown orders.

And he wasn't joking.

[Segnosaur]

Canada's leader steps down!!!

No, it wasn't Trudeau. His hair still inhabits the office of Prime Minister...

From: CBC
Gov.-Gen. Julie Payette and her secretary, Assunta di Lorenzo, are resigning after an outside workplace review of Rideau Hall found that the pair presided over a toxic work environment....The Privy Council Office launched the unprecedented third-party review in July in response to a CBC News report featuring a dozen public servants and former employees confidentially claiming Payette belittled, berated and publicly humiliated Rideau Hall staff.

To anyone unfamiliar with how Canada works... Our political leader is the Prime Minister, but our "head of state" is the Queen. However, since she can't be here all the time, we have the Governor General, who is the Queen's representative, and does all the ceremonial things she would do... dissolve's parliament, greets foreign leaders, etc. So, Trudeau must find someone new to be appointed to the post.

ETA:
Its kind of surprising... usually the office of Gov. General is pretty free from scandal. Other than the occasional rumblings about how we should get rid of the monarchy and the Gov. General, there usually aren't problems with the particular individuals selected for the post.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Canada's leader steps down!!!

No, it wasn't Trudeau. His hair still inhabits the office of Prime Minister...

From: CBC
Gov.-Gen. Julie Payette and her secretary, Assunta di Lorenzo, are resigning after an outside workplace review of Rideau Hall found that the pair presided over a toxic work environment....The Privy Council Office launched the unprecedented third-party review in July in response to a CBC News report featuring a dozen public servants and former employees confidentially claiming Payette belittled, berated and publicly humiliated Rideau Hall staff.

To anyone unfamiliar with how Canada works... Our political leader is the Prime Minister, but our "head of state" is the Queen. However, since she can't be here all the time, we have the Governor General, who is the Queen's representative, and does all the ceremonial things she would do... dissolve's parliament, greets foreign leaders, etc. So, Trudeau must find someone new to be appointed to the post.

ETA:
Its kind of surprising... usually the office of Gov. General is pretty free from scandal. Other than the occasional rumblings about how we should get rid of the monarchy and the Gov. General, there usually aren't problems with the particular individuals selected for the post.

Guess the queen is gonna be kinda pissed at Justin for recommending the b****.

[Davidlpf]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Canada's leader steps down!!!

No, it wasn't Trudeau. His hair still inhabits the office of Prime Minister...

From: CBC
Gov.-Gen. Julie Payette and her secretary, Assunta di Lorenzo, are resigning after an outside workplace review of Rideau Hall found that the pair presided over a toxic work environment....The Privy Council Office launched the unprecedented third-party review in July in response to a CBC News report featuring a dozen public servants and former employees confidentially claiming Payette belittled, berated and publicly humiliated Rideau Hall staff.

To anyone unfamiliar with how Canada works... Our political leader is the Prime Minister, but our "head of state" is the Queen. However, since she can't be here all the time, we have the Governor General, who is the Queen's representative, and does all the ceremonial things she would do... dissolve's parliament, greets foreign leaders, etc. So, Trudeau must find someone new to be appointed to the post.

ETA:
Its kind of surprising... usually the office of Gov. General is pretty free from scandal. Other than the occasional rumblings about how we should get rid of the monarchy and the Gov. General, there usually aren't problems with the particular individuals selected for the post.

Right now the head of Supreme Court of Canada can do all the administrative duties but for a while the government has bigger issues to deal with. It was bit of a shocker thou.

[Blue Mountain]

Yet another instance of Trudeau leaping before looking. There were red flags about Payette even before she was appointed Governor-General. While I like some of Trudeau's policies (not hostile to science, decriminalization of marijuana, and MAID), as Prime Minister he's been a disappointment due to all the egg he's managed to accumulate on his face.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

Yet another instance of Trudeau leaping before looking. There were red flags about Payette even before she was appointed Governor-General..

It is kind of ironic, since Trudeau made such a big deal of creating committees and groups to make other government appointments (such as selecting senators).

[Segnosaur]

A little more controversy for the Liberal party...

From: CBC
Brampton Centre MP Ramesh Sangha has been removed from the Liberal Party caucus....Sangha made disparaging comments about Liberal MP Navdeep Bains, who is Sikh...The National Post reported in 2019 that Sangha accused the Liberal government of "pandering" to Sikh separatists in a way that threatened to derail Canada's relationship with India.

Canada's relationship with India seems to be a problem for the Liberals, doesn't it. (Remember Trudeau's trip there a few years ago, where he was criticized for dressing "native", and meeting people that were... sketchy.)

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Canada's relationship with India seems to be a problem for the Liberals, doesn't it. (Remember Trudeau's trip there a few years ago, where he was criticized for dressing "native", and meeting people that were... sketchy.)

Did any of that actually come from people in India, though? It seemed to me at the time that it was all the Usual Suspects in Canada looking for a reason to whine about him, like how they kept focusing on his fancy socks.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Horatius

Quote:

Canada's relationship with India seems to be a problem for the Liberals, doesn't it. (Remember Trudeau's trip there a few years ago, where he was criticized for dressing "native", and meeting people that were... sketchy.)

Did any of that actually come from people in India, though? It seemed to me at the time that it was all the Usual Suspects in Canada looking for a reason to whine about him, like how they kept focusing on his fancy socks.

From: BBC
...some people were beginning to notice a trend and were not quite sure it all worked, including the former chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Omar Abdullah. "Is it just me or is this choreographed cuteness all just a bit much now? Also FYI we Indians don’t dress like this every day sir, not even in Bollywood."
...

Shivam Vij: "Even if Trudeau was an Indian groom at his wedding reception he’d look ridiculously overdressed."
...
Even the media headlines considerably changed tone from "resplendent and festive" to "too flashy even for an Indian".

Now, maybe those comments were in the minority. Maybe most people in India liked him dressing up (although I don't see any evidence of that). But yea, there were at least some people who thought his outfits were a bit much.

[Segnosaur]

(Debated whether I should put this in one of the general covid / vaccine threads, but since its specific to Canada I thought it was best to go here.)

Anyone familiar with Canada knows that, despite being one of the first countries to approve a Covid vaccine, we have been very slow to actually get the vaccine distributed.

I had been giving the federal government the benefit of the doubt, but I recently read the following article that was a bit more... critical. (Its from the National Post, which does have a slight right-wing bias, but is generally accepted as factual.)

From: National Post
Recent analysis by The Economist found that while virtually all of Europe will be fully vaccinated by the end of this year, the earliest Canada can hope for is mid-2022.
...
Chinese pharma company CanSino had...one of the world’s most promising vaccine candidates...Ottawa struck a deal to have it undergo human trials in Canada... days after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced the arrangement, China shut off all shipments...in what is believed to have been a spiteful retaliation for the continued imprisonment of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou
...
(Canada) signed massive pre-orders for at least six approved or pending COVID-19 vaccines...with many of these contracts being inked after the collapse of the CanSino plan, Canada is lingering at the back of the line on these orders.
...
Ottawa poured $126 million into the Biologics Manufacturing Centre...Unfortunately, it won’t be complete until 2022 at the earliest....Ottawa had stuck to this plan despite offers from a Montreal company to manufacture millions of doses by the end of 2020. PnuVax...runs a Health Canada-approved facility...Calgary’s Providence Therapeutics had a similar story, saying that although it had developed a vaccine that successfully blocked COVID-19 transmission in mice, Ottawa ignored their appeals to have the treatment proceed

Not a very pretty picture when you get right down to it.

[Segnosaur]

And, Canada has just approved the AstraZeneca vaccine.

From: Global Television Network
Canada approved Oxford–AstraZeneca’s coronavirus vaccine on Friday, making it the third shot officially authorized in the country.

That means we now have 3 vaccine options (including the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines).

Canada's vaccine rollout has been horribly bad (largely because we messed up supply arrangements). While we were one of the first countries to approve the Pfizer vaccine (even before the United States), since that time we have fallen far behind in terms of vaccine doses given.

Approving the AZ vaccine seems to have taken a looooong time. We kept hearing on the news about how "approval is coming shortly", but... nothing.

Now the question is... where are we going to get the vaccine from. One of the manufacturing plants is in India, but we're in the middle of a diplomatic tiff with them (over Canada's support of protests), and the other plants may be providing their output to other countries.

[Segnosaur]

And now we have a 4th Covid vaccine which will be given to Canadians...some day. In the future.

From: CBC (A.k.a. the mother corp)
Health Canada has approved the use of Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine in Canada

Pretty much a foregone conclusion, considering that its already approved in several other Western countries. Still have to work out delivery schedules, and there is always the risk that production problems and "vaccine nationalism" will slow deployment. Still, more vaccine options are better than fewer.