IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags China-India relations , donald trump , India incidents , Narendra Modi , US-India relations , xi jinping

Reply
Old 17th June 2020, 01:00 AM   #41
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Excellent post, mate - from the metaphor to the description of the action.
Thank you...
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2020, 04:03 AM   #42
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,887
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
But no shots were fired.

Looks like the Chinese have loaded the front with 14k Triad.
The only reason shots weren't fired is because both sides have agreed not to allow them within (I think) 2km of the border.
I agree, though, that there must be some pretty badass Chinese soldiers there. India is saying 20 of its soldiers were killed, with fists, clubs and stones.
Should it actually come to war, India has no chance at all.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2020, 04:21 AM   #43
Jungle Jim
Graduate Poster
 
Jungle Jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,217
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
The only reason shots weren't fired is because both sides have agreed not to allow them within (I think) 2km of the border.
I agree, though, that there must be some pretty badass Chinese soldiers there. India is saying 20 of its soldiers were killed, with fists, clubs and stones.
Should it actually come to war, India has no chance at all.
The Indian army initially confirmed three casualties, but later said an additional 17 soldiers "exposed to sub-zero temperatures in the high altitude terrain have succumbed to their injuries." - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/asia/...hnk/index.html
Jungle Jim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2020, 06:11 PM   #44
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Should it actually come to war, India has no chance at all.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if China stacked the local regiment with Kung Fu black belts.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2020, 10:24 PM   #45
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
I would be called a traitor for saying this, but while the Indian army has stayed more or less up to date with regard to weapons and equipment, the "attitude" is still a remnant of its colonial roots. Training methods for soldiers are outdated and have made little or no attempts at modernization since the Brits left. Command structures also reflect the feudal legacy of pre-independent India. This is ok when fighting battles with enemies with a similar legacy, but up against a constantly modernizing and innovating force like China, they are on the back foot.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th June 2020, 11:08 PM   #46
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I would be called a traitor for saying this, but while the Indian army has stayed more or less up to date with regard to weapons and equipment, the "attitude" is still a remnant of its colonial roots.
That's sound entirely Indian.

Maybe you should arm the troops with cricket bats. And balls.

Hell, go all the way an put them in full batting gear - the pads would come in handy as well.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st June 2020, 10:42 AM   #47
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
Modi has declared that there was NO incursion. But he heaps praise on the brave soldiers of the 16 Bihars who were killed so that his party can use them to win the upcoming Bihar elections.
Meanwhile BJP party workers are going around vandalising shops selling chinese products even as the government coddles major Indian companies with massive chinese investment.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st June 2020, 11:59 AM   #48
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,286
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's sound entirely Indian.

Maybe you should arm the troops with cricket bats. And balls.

Hell, go all the way an put them in full batting gear - the pads would come in handy as well.
How amusing.

Except that is pretty much what happened. Given the ban on weapons in the area, both sides improvised all manner of blunt weapons from whatever materials were at hand.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2020, 09:46 PM   #49
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,249
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
The only reason shots weren't fired is because both sides have agreed not to allow them within (I think) 2km of the border.
I agree, though, that there must be some pretty badass Chinese soldiers there. India is saying 20 of its soldiers were killed, with fists, clubs and stones.
Should it actually come to war, India has no chance at all.
We donít know how many Chinese soldiers were injured or died. China isnít saying, but it isnít zero.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd June 2020, 11:07 PM   #50
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 26,503
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
How amusing.

Except that is pretty much what happened. Given the ban on weapons in the area, both sides improvised all manner of blunt weapons from whatever materials were at hand.
There are some very deadly weapons that are not firearms. For example a two handed sword (as used by King Richard the Lionheart) or long spear (as used by Alexander the Great) would be very deadly.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 01:58 AM   #51
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
I'd say the China clash is over - Modi's back to softer targets, like Pakistan diplomats.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 03:02 AM   #52
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'd say the China clash is over - Modi's back to softer targets, like Pakistan diplomats.
...and dissenters in India.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 01:48 PM   #53
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Well of course!

Aren't they permanently on the agenda?
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2020, 03:34 AM   #54
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 3,887
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'd say the China clash is over - Modi's back to softer targets, like Pakistan diplomats.
That doesn't mean the Chinese have given up, though. They are, I believe, still occupying some 60 square km of Indian territory.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2020, 11:55 AM   #55
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
That doesn't mean the Chinese have given up, though. They are, I believe, still occupying some 60 square km of Indian territory.
38,000 km2, according to India.

China has certainly built some structures in the area over the past few months. It looks a bit like their policy in the SC Sea - build the base and let someone try to remove it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53174887
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:11 PM   #56
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
In his address to the nation yesterday afternoon, Modi has announced the banning of 59 android apps as India's response to the Chinese incursion.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2020, 02:01 AM   #57
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
In his address to the nation yesterday afternoon, Modi has announced the banning of 59 android apps as India's response to the Chinese incursion.
It's an odd one - he's picked a target that will cost him votes. TikTok is the fastest-growing App around and an India-only alternative won't give the same reach. I don't see it causing China much harm.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2020, 03:25 AM   #58
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
It won't. However, this is the kind of grandstanding that his fanboys like. Also, the media has now got the terrorist attack in Kashmir to blow up. would be interesting to contrast the government and media responses.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2020, 11:05 AM   #59
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
China's taken to outright trolling India at the border now - this is hilarious:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/ch...e-63b9054d976b
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th September 2020, 08:43 PM   #60
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
After recent increasing tensions, both parties have kissed and made up.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54113306

Very sensible option for both parties. Let's hope it catches on.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2020, 12:34 AM   #61
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
Primary rhetoric of the ruling BJP for the Legislative Assembly elections in the state of Bihar:
1. Vote for us and we will provide the COVID vaccine for free.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/bihar...rBS7vMx0J.html

2. We have already fixed dates for commencing our war with China and Pakistan.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/78856910.cms

3. Opposition parties are resorting to black magic and tantric rituals to kill state BJP leaders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN3V9l6kj_A
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2020, 01:38 AM   #62
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Holy crap, it gets madder over there every day!
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2020, 01:06 PM   #63
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,307
I bet what happened is some Green Indian or Chinese Second Looey went off course a little and strayed where he should not have gone.
Old US Army Joke when I was in the US Army in the mid 80;s:
The most dangerous weapon in the Soviet Arsenel after nukes is a Green US 2nd Looey with a map and compass...I suspect things have not changed much.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2020, 04:21 PM   #64
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
More than likely.

Although I'd be surprised if Modi didn't drop a suggestion somewhere - Xi had no need to fire anything up, with USA, Taiwan & Hong Kong on the go, while Modi will always look for a chance to play tough guy.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2020, 10:34 AM   #65
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Mildly interesting development: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...dntsM6UWK.html
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2020, 02:44 PM   #66
Garrison
Philosopher
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 5,516
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Sorry but when a page tells me I need to turn off my adblocker I close the page.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2020, 03:54 PM   #67
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Here's the important part of the information in it:

Quote:
In the middle of a conflict with China, India has taken a significant step by authorising the defence forces to enhance their stocking of weapons and ammunition for a 15-day intense war now.

The authorisation to increase the weapon and ammunition reserves to minimum 15-I levels from the earlier existing 10-day stocking is to prepare the defence forces for a two-front war with both China and Pakistan.
Appears to come from Indian Government sources.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2020, 10:18 PM   #68
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
A couple of state elections and the current bad press from the farmer agitation, Modi has to show that he still is the "BIG MAN". Apart from the staged photoshoots and speeches at election rallies, Modi has really never spoken about issues. Since his election, Modi has done all of three interviews mainly with sycophantic interviewers asking him questions like what kind of mangoes he likes and whether he likes to suck on them (true story).
Particularly ironic since he and his accolytees constantly harped about how the previous Prime Minister Manmohan Singh never gave interviews, when in fact he gave more interviews to various papers both national and international, and also spoke at international forums with well prepared speeches. He did not spend his tenure as Prime Minister primarily as the propaganda machine for elections.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th December 2020, 11:25 PM   #69
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
A couple of state elections and the current bad press from the farmer agitation, Modi has to show that he still is the "BIG MAN".
Yeah, I noticed the timing of it when the strikes are happening.

He's certainly learnt the "change the talk" lesson.

Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
.. whether he likes to suck on them (true story).


He certainly sucks on something.

Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Particularly ironic since he and his accolytees constantly harped about how the previous Prime Minister Manmohan Singh never gave interviews, when in fact he gave more interviews to various papers both national and international, and also spoke at international forums with well prepared speeches. He did not spend his tenure as Prime Minister primarily as the propaganda machine for elections.
So many similarities with his American pal, who spent all 8 years of Obama's presidency crying about how much golf Obama played, then went and doubled it during his term without a shred of shame.

Why do we* keep electing these clowns?


*Pretty sure you and me aren't part of that "we".
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2020, 07:18 AM   #70
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
"We" as in humanity keeps electing clowns because they are skilled in fooling people.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2020, 04:15 PM   #71
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
"We" as in humanity keeps electing clowns because they are skilled in fooling people.
I don't believe a bar of that. Might be worth a new thread, but from the clowns I'm seeing in action, they're not capable of fooling people and never have been. Their votes are more of a **** you to other people than being sucked in to a whirlpool of nonsense.

Modi's a good example - he's ridden the wave of nationalism that was already running deep through India. He doesn't persuade people, or fool anyone, but he picked up a message that resonates with nationalists, of which there are many.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2020, 12:45 PM   #72
Mader Levap
Graduate Poster
 
Mader Levap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,576
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I don't believe a bar of that. Might be worth a new thread, but from the clowns I'm seeing in action, they're not capable of fooling people and never have been. Their votes are more of a **** you to other people than being sucked in to a whirlpool of nonsense.
No, no. Not "fooling" in sense they believe promises of these clowns. While there are idiots that actually believe in snake oil (clown oil?), majority as you say want to screw over those they blame for whatever.
And THIS is suicidal foolishness of highest order, because these clowns aren't interested in wellbeing of their electorate any more than in wellbeing of ones hated by them.

My prediction for far future is grim one - democracy is something that is considered not working out. New systems are in place that our culture would consider totalitarian.
__________________
Sanity is overrated. / Voting for Republicans is morally equivalent to voting for Nazis in early 30's.
Mader Levap is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2020, 10:04 PM   #73
Susheel
Graduate Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 1,754
In, India, the message that the BJP has for its followers is simple: Hey, it's ok to be casteist and hate non-Hindus. We are bringing back our glorious Hindu patriarchal "traditions".
The secular promises of development and progress are just talking points to be thrown at the non-acolytes.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2020, 10:20 PM   #74
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
In, India, the message that the BJP has for its followers is simple: Hey, it's ok to be casteist and hate non-Hindus. We are bringing back our glorious Hindu patriarchal "traditions".
Exactly mirroring Trump, Erdogan, China, and Russia, where things like blackness and gayness are often met with death, or worse.

Even in UK now, Johnson and Brexiteers built their movement on nationalism, racism and the exclusion of non-Britishness.

It does look like a world going backwards. One step forward, two back.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th January 2021, 02:01 AM   #75
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,222
Looks like the border isn't as settled as it might have appeared: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55793112
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:46 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.