[Merged] Australian Politics - The Morrison Period - Page 9

arthwollipot · 24th October 2018, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Fraser Anning on verge of being dumped from Katter's Australian Party for views on race, non-European migration

Aaaand... they've kicked him out.

Wildy · 24th October 2018, 10:06 PM

Honestly that took far too long to do.

arthwollipot · 24th October 2018, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Katter Australia Party

Clearly Fraser wants the freedom to pursue his crusade, and we think it's best to give him this freedom.

Translation: don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Thor 2 · 25th October 2018, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Aaaand... they've kicked him out.

You beat me to it.

And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter.

quadraginta · 25th October 2018, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yep. So you would think enterprising resort designers would bear this in mind. It costs money to walk away from such a huge investment.

Sunk cost fallacy.

Norman Alexander · 25th October 2018, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Sunk cost fallacy.

Indeed.

arthwollipot · 25th October 2018, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

You beat me to it.

And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter.

As I've said before, I follow the Guardian liveblogs. They're pretty quick off the mark.

Norman Alexander · 25th October 2018, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter.

There's only room for one lunatic in the Katter Party and that's him...CROCODILES!!!1!

Thor 2 · 26th October 2018, 03:18 PM

According to Laura Tingle in the following article, it would seem it is ~~business~~ blundering as usual for Morrison and the Libs, after the Wentworth debacle. The cause of this is being laid at the feet of Turnbull by many.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...rison/10432928

Quote:

Instead, inside the "Canberra bubble" which the Prime Minister is so fond of talking about, yet seems to be the main inhabitant of, there was an earthquake and, miraculously, astonishingly, nothing happened.

rjh01 · 26th October 2018, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

According to Laura Tingle in the following article, it would seem it is ~~business~~ blundering as usual for Morrison and the Libs, after the Wentworth debacle. The cause of this is being laid at the feet of Turnbull by many.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...rison/10432928

Originally Posted by rjh01

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...19-p50apy.html

I wonder if Labour could get some legislation though parliament? That would be good. Get Labour and the independents to work together.

They can be in denial all they like. Until Federal Parliament meets and the Greens, with Labor and In dependant support pass a motion to create a federal anti-corruption commission. If that passes the lower house then life would be interesting. Could the Government even survive?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...ntrol/10430746

lionking · 26th October 2018, 09:52 PM

Katter would not vote with Labor. I don’t think Phelps would either. She hasn’t even taken her seat, so I doubt she would immediately commit hari kari.

psionl0 · 26th October 2018, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Katter would not vote with Labor. I don’t think Phelps would either. She hasn’t even taken her seat, so I doubt she would immediately commit hari kari.

Katter would vote with the devil if it got his party more bums in seats.

As for Phelps, I don't think that it would hurt her re-election prospects in Wentworth if she voted against the traitors who ousted their PM.

arthwollipot · 28th October 2018, 06:25 PM

NSW Nationals to purge white supremacists and neo-Nazis from party ranks

Quote:

The NSW Nationals will write to 20 members asking them to justify why they should not be expelled from the party over their alleged links to white supremacist and alt-right movements.

The party has investigated about 35 members, after the ABC revealed a push by people involved in the alt-right movement to join mainstream Australian political parties, in order to influence their policy agendas from within.

Some of those under investigation allegedly shared social media posts praising the Holocaust and Hitler, while others have been pictured in photos posing in white-power symbols.

Mr Cadell said it was likely 20 people would receive letters asking them to explain their actions.

"We would hope to write to them and have them justify why they should remain members of the National Party," Mr Cadell said.

rjh01 · 28th October 2018, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

NSW Nationals to purge white supremacists and neo-Nazis from party ranks

Tip for extremists - Do not post extremist material. Posting extremist material limits your options later.

On the other hand if the National party expelled all extremists then they might not have many members left.

arthwollipot · 29th October 2018, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

Tip for extremists - Do not post extremist material. Posting extremist material limits your options later.

On the other hand if the National party expelled all extremists then they might not have many members left.

I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least.

rjh01 · 30th October 2018, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least.

They did delay SSM for several years. Could start looking at what else they have done but do not see the point.

lionking · 30th October 2018, 12:22 AM

I know it’s not a federal issue, but Labor looks like winning comfortably in Victoria. Since Morrison, the LNP vote has sunk.

Thor 2 · 30th October 2018, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least.

Depends on where you draw the line for extremists. I suggest it's fluid and arbitrary.

Norman Alexander · 30th October 2018, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I know it’s not a federal issue, but Labor looks like winning comfortably in Victoria. Since Morrison, the LNP vote has sunk.

I don't think ScoMo is the reason for that. He's just being dragged along for the toboggan ride to hell. More likely it's Abbott, Dutton, etc. and their types that have made the LNP stink like a week-old roadside 'roo carcass.

arthwollipot · 30th October 2018, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

They did delay SSM for several years. Could start looking at what else they have done but do not see the point.

Opposing SSM was not an extremist position.

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Depends on where you draw the line for extremists. I suggest it's fluid and arbitrary.

But yeah, this. If you draw the line for extremists at opposing SSM, I can't see how you can avoid defining anyone other than left-wing liberal progressives as extremist.

rjh01 · 30th October 2018, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Opposing SSM was not an extremist position.

But yeah, this. If you draw the line for extremists at opposing SSM, I can't see how you can avoid defining anyone other than left-wing liberal progressives as extremist.

How about opposing something where there is no rational reason for opposing it? That is what SSM is. Then add in all their other policies, like moving public servants away from Canberra and making them work in MacDonalds for purely political reasons.

rjh01 · 31st October 2018, 02:04 PM

And then add this

Quote:

Joyce's actions ended up costing the lives of thousands of animals who died a horrendous death, effectively "cooking to death" in heatwave conditions on the high seas.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...Rz93i5ctTEyvCc

I do not think you can single out individuals. It is the whole party that is to blame.

arthwollipot · 31st October 2018, 03:39 PM

I'm not disagreeing that the Nationals have championed some truly awful causes. But "awful" does not mean "extremist". Opposition to SSM was not an extreme position. It was mainstream. That's why we had to have a ballot. If opposition to SSM was an extreme position, there wouldn't have been any problem.

arthwollipot · 31st October 2018, 04:34 PM

Here's a kicker for the coal-lovers in government.

Demand for Australia's thermal coal exports to be dire in future, IEEFA report warns

Quote:

Economists are predicting Australia's thermal coal exports to plummet faster than expected due to falling demand across Asia that appears permanent and irreversible.

The study found New South Wales, the source of nearly 70 per cent of thermal coal exports, should brace for disruption in energy markets.

Think anyone'll pay attention?

Thor 2 · 1st November 2018, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Here's a kicker for the coal-lovers in government.

Demand for Australia's thermal coal exports to be dire in future, IEEFA report warns

Think anyone'll pay attention?

Nah, the coal lovers will dismiss anything put out by IEEFA as just greeny propaganda and it will be business as usual, with the rallying cry of "chop down the wind turbines"....... as well as the trees.

lionking · 2nd November 2018, 10:31 AM

It turns out that Victorian Opposition Leader Matthew Guy is a bible basher of Morrison proportions. He has stated that he’s proud to be a Christian (big deal, the few things I’m proud of don’t make me a remarkable person) and has recently announced he will re-introduce religious instruction into our legally secular schools. He won’t win votes with this policy in my view. Bible bashers were already going to vote Liberal.

Thor 2 · 2nd November 2018, 01:35 PM

Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps?

novaphile · 2nd November 2018, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps?

I think it is because "the religious" could be as much as 10% of an electorate. (I'm counting "the religious" as the group of people who might changed their votes according to the religious views stated by a politician).

Seats regularly change hands on less than 10% of the votes, so politicians make more noise about being religious.

quadraginta · 2nd November 2018, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps?

Or perhaps the politicians opportunistically wear their claims of religiosity on their sleeves?

Religion has always been used by the ambitious as a tool to gain secular power.

lionking · 3rd November 2018, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Or perhaps the politicians opportunistically wear their claims of religiosity on their sleeves?

Religion has always been used by the ambitious as a tool to gain secular power.

I am convinced that Guy and Morrison are full-on Christians. Morrison has even said that his Christianity will guide his political decision-making.

These guys are seriously dangerous, and I predict both will crash and burn. And badly, in a way which will leave their party in opposition for many years.

Norman Alexander · 3rd November 2018, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I am convinced that Guy and Morrison are full-on Christians. Morrison has even said that his Christianity will guide his political decision-making.

These guys are seriously dangerous, and I predict both will crash and burn. And badly, in a way which will leave their party in opposition for many years.

They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it.

A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history.

lionking · 3rd November 2018, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it.

A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history.

While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s.

rjh01 · 3rd November 2018, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it.

A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history.

Originally Posted by lionking

While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s.

Do not count on a Labor victory. The Liberals won government making Abbott PM. Even if Labor does win do not expect a very bright PM. I read his Facebook feed and he has promised heaps of money to heaps of people. So where is he getting the money from?

Thor 2 · 3rd November 2018, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s.

I wonder about this. I wonder why Abbott was/is such an avid climate change denier. God has his hands on the helm so all is well maybe? God has given us all this coal and oil to burn?

Morrison may be more of a worry in this regard as a Pentecostal. Don't those guys go on about "end times" and such. Why worry about global warming if Jesus is going to do his spectacular return soon?

lionking · 3rd November 2018, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

Do not count on a Labor victory. The Liberals won government making Abbott PM. Even if Labor does win do not expect a very bright PM. I read his Facebook feed and he has promised heaps of money to heaps of people. So where is he getting the money from?

Money is not a problem. Companies profits (and company taxes) are at higher than predicted levels, as are mining royalties (predictions were that they would fall and they haven’t).

Is “where is the money from” your only evidence that Shorten is not bright? If so, you are wrong. If not, what evidence do you have?

In any case, it’s the cabinet which is the real measure of whether a government is successful or not. The LNP is in disarray, with even Joyce likely to become deputy PM. Labor is united.

rjh01 · 3rd November 2018, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Money is not a problem. Companies profits (and company taxes) are at higher than predicted levels, as are mining royalties (predictions were that they would fall and they haven’t).

Is “where is the money from” your only evidence that Shorten is not bright? If so, you are wrong. If not, what evidence do you have?

In any case, it’s the cabinet which is the real measure of whether a government is successful or not. The LNP is in disarray, with even Joyce likely to become deputy PM. Labor is united.

Yes, the government could increase spending a little without major harm, say by 1 or two %. Anything more and inflation could significantly increase. The government is currently running a small deficit now. See the link for the evidence of that.

https://tradingeconomics.com/austral...ernment-budget

What Shorten is promising is giving heaps of money to heaps of people. Just look at what he has said on his Facebook page. One small recent example women's' netball get $20 million dollars. Now every other women's sport will be asking for something similar.

https://www.facebook.com/BillShorten...43730/?__xts__[0]=68.ARB3512r2XveTvb1OT5nHHwsLVDtG0x-dJOm_xDTepJLGjmAwd2kldizOVQ6lMIugBX-84eB59pPOvE2LjX-5H7LB7QXxWMtGF_qECM_mjeZfOXosOkBeYF4k7nTcs714nDHRd GJLHq7urOhXuzfMY9P_trpysjYKDcwnQdxGRKBXOXYfIrgLWG6 FLUvR0LM_ZQ3_w18fRwLMzfif0jR3jHUDKThS_slyKlG&__tn_ _=-R

psionl0 · 3rd November 2018, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

Do not count on a Labor victory. The Liberals won government making Abbott PM.

There is a saying in politics: "oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them".

Labor was in quite a bit of trouble over the polls prior to the 2013 election and Kevin Rudd's success in booting Julia Gillard out only seemed to make matters worse. He was jaded and ran an uninspirational election campaign.

lionking · 3rd November 2018, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

Yes, the government could increase spending a little without major harm, say by 1 or two %. Anything more and inflation could significantly increase. The government is currently running a small deficit now. See the link for the evidence of that.

https://tradingeconomics.com/austral...ernment-budget

What Shorten is promising is giving heaps of money to heaps of people. Just look at what he has said on his Facebook page. One small recent example women's' netball get $20 million dollars. Now every other women's sport will be asking for something similar.

https://www.facebook.com/BillShorten...43730/?__xts__[0]=68.ARB3512r2XveTvb1OT5nHHwsLVDtG0x-dJOm_xDTepJLGjmAwd2kldizOVQ6lMIugBX-84eB59pPOvE2LjX-5H7LB7QXxWMtGF_qECM_mjeZfOXosOkBeYF4k7nTcs714nDHRd GJLHq7urOhXuzfMY9P_trpysjYKDcwnQdxGRKBXOXYfIrgLWG6 FLUvR0LM_ZQ3_w18fRwLMzfif0jR3jHUDKThS_slyKlG&__tn_ _=-R

Well I think you are utterly wrong. In the run up to the next election, both parties need to table their budget estimates. How much do you want to bet that Labor will budget for a surplus.

And $20m for Australia’s most popular female sport? That’s money found in the back of the couch.

fromdownunder · 3rd November 2018, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by psionl0

There is a saying in politics: "oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them".

Labor was in quite a bit of trouble over the polls prior to the 2013 election and Kevin Rudd's success in booting Julia Gillard out only seemed to make matters worse. He was jaded and ran an uninspirational election campaign.

I felt at the time that the change to Rudd actually would save a few seats, and I think he did. Gillard was so on the nose that something had to be done. Rudd maybe should have done far better than he did, but as you say, he did not behave like a potential winner, but like the boy and the dyke.

Norm

rjh01 · 3rd November 2018, 11:36 PM

May the fun start soon
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...04-p50dw8.html

Quote:

Kerryn Phelps will be declared the winner of the Wentworth byelection, pushing the Coalition into minority government after a fortnight of counting.

Parliament sits for the period between 26 November and 6 December. We will see who gets Christmas presents. I want to see question time. I love a good blood sport.
Ref: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...nd_Proceedings

24th October 2018, 10:00 PM	#321
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Fraser Anning on verge of being dumped from Katter's Australian Party for views on race, non-European migration Aaaand... they've kicked him out.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

24th October 2018, 10:06 PM	#322
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,017	Honestly that took far too long to do.
	__________________

24th October 2018, 10:12 PM	#323
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Originally Posted by Katter Australia Party Clearly Fraser wants the freedom to pursue his crusade, and we think it's best to give him this freedom. Translation: don't let the door hit you on the way out.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

25th October 2018, 02:11 PM	#324
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Aaaand... they've kicked him out. You beat me to it. And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

25th October 2018, 03:15 PM	#325
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,163	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Yep. So you would think enterprising resort designers would bear this in mind. It costs money to walk away from such a huge investment. Sunk cost fallacy.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

25th October 2018, 03:57 PM	#326
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,733	Originally Posted by quadraginta Sunk cost fallacy. Indeed.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

25th October 2018, 04:25 PM	#327
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Originally Posted by Thor 2 You beat me to it. And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter. As I've said before, I follow the Guardian liveblogs. They're pretty quick off the mark.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

25th October 2018, 10:51 PM	#328
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,733	Originally Posted by Thor 2 And I thought nobody could be too far to the right for Katter. There's only room for one lunatic in the Katter Party and that's him...CROCODILES!!!1!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

26th October 2018, 03:18 PM	#329
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	According to Laura Tingle in the following article, it would seem it is ~~business~~ blundering as usual for Morrison and the Libs, after the Wentworth debacle. The cause of this is being laid at the feet of Turnbull by many. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...rison/10432928 Quote: Instead, inside the "Canberra bubble" which the Prime Minister is so fond of talking about, yet seems to be the main inhabitant of, there was an earthquake and, miraculously, astonishingly, nothing happened.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

26th October 2018, 08:24 PM	#330
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	Originally Posted by Thor 2 According to Laura Tingle in the following article, it would seem it is ~~business~~ blundering as usual for Morrison and the Libs, after the Wentworth debacle. The cause of this is being laid at the feet of Turnbull by many. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...rison/10432928 Originally Posted by rjh01 https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...19-p50apy.html I wonder if Labour could get some legislation though parliament? That would be good. Get Labour and the independents to work together. They can be in denial all they like. Until Federal Parliament meets and the Greens, with Labor and In dependant support pass a motion to create a federal anti-corruption commission. If that passes the lower house then life would be interesting. Could the Government even survive? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-...ntrol/10430746
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26th October 2018, 09:52 PM	#331
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	Katter would not vote with Labor. I don’t think Phelps would either. She hasn’t even taken her seat, so I doubt she would immediately commit hari kari.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

26th October 2018, 11:59 PM	#332
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 16,988	Originally Posted by lionking Katter would not vote with Labor. I don’t think Phelps would either. She hasn’t even taken her seat, so I doubt she would immediately commit hari kari. Katter would vote with the devil if it got his party more bums in seats. As for Phelps, I don't think that it would hurt her re-election prospects in Wentworth if she voted against the traitors who ousted their PM.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

28th October 2018, 06:25 PM	#333
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	NSW Nationals to purge white supremacists and neo-Nazis from party ranks Quote: The NSW Nationals will write to 20 members asking them to justify why they should not be expelled from the party over their alleged links to white supremacist and alt-right movements. The party has investigated about 35 members, after the ABC revealed a push by people involved in the alt-right movement to join mainstream Australian political parties, in order to influence their policy agendas from within. Some of those under investigation allegedly shared social media posts praising the Holocaust and Hitler, while others have been pictured in photos posing in white-power symbols. Mr Cadell said it was likely 20 people would receive letters asking them to explain their actions. "We would hope to write to them and have them justify why they should remain members of the National Party," Mr Cadell said.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

28th October 2018, 11:14 PM	#334
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	Originally Posted by arthwollipot NSW Nationals to purge white supremacists and neo-Nazis from party ranks Tip for extremists - Do not post extremist material. Posting extremist material limits your options later. On the other hand if the National party expelled all extremists then they might not have many members left.
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29th October 2018, 04:36 PM	#335
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Originally Posted by rjh01 Tip for extremists - Do not post extremist material. Posting extremist material limits your options later. On the other hand if the National party expelled all extremists then they might not have many members left. I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

30th October 2018, 12:17 AM	#336
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least. They did delay SSM for several years. Could start looking at what else they have done but do not see the point.
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30th October 2018, 12:22 AM	#337
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	I know it’s not a federal issue, but Labor looks like winning comfortably in Victoria. Since Morrison, the LNP vote has sunk.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th October 2018, 01:46 PM	#338
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I don't think there's any evidence that a majority of National Party members are extremist. The article only mentioned 20 people in the entire NSW branch of the party. I don't know how many people that is, but I'm going to bet that it's in the hundreds at least. Depends on where you draw the line for extremists. I suggest it's fluid and arbitrary.
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

30th October 2018, 06:27 PM	#339
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,733	Originally Posted by lionking I know it’s not a federal issue, but Labor looks like winning comfortably in Victoria. Since Morrison, the LNP vote has sunk. I don't think ScoMo is the reason for that. He's just being dragged along for the toboggan ride to hell. More likely it's Abbott, Dutton, etc. and their types that have made the LNP stink like a week-old roadside 'roo carcass.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th October 2018, 08:37 PM	#340
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Originally Posted by rjh01 They did delay SSM for several years. Could start looking at what else they have done but do not see the point. Opposing SSM was not an extremist position. Originally Posted by Thor 2 Depends on where you draw the line for extremists. I suggest it's fluid and arbitrary. But yeah, this. If you draw the line for extremists at opposing SSM, I can't see how you can avoid defining anyone other than left-wing liberal progressives as extremist.
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30th October 2018, 11:16 PM	#341
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Opposing SSM was not an extremist position. But yeah, this. If you draw the line for extremists at opposing SSM, I can't see how you can avoid defining anyone other than left-wing liberal progressives as extremist. How about opposing something where there is no rational reason for opposing it? That is what SSM is. Then add in all their other policies, like moving public servants away from Canberra and making them work in MacDonalds for purely political reasons.
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31st October 2018, 02:04 PM	#342
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	And then add this Quote: Joyce's actions ended up costing the lives of thousands of animals who died a horrendous death, effectively "cooking to death" in heatwave conditions on the high seas. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...Rz93i5ctTEyvCc I do not think you can single out individuals. It is the whole party that is to blame.
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31st October 2018, 03:39 PM	#343
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	I'm not disagreeing that the Nationals have championed some truly awful causes. But "awful" does not mean "extremist". Opposition to SSM was not an extreme position. It was mainstream. That's why we had to have a ballot. If opposition to SSM was an extreme position, there wouldn't have been any problem.
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31st October 2018, 04:34 PM	#344
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,223	Here's a kicker for the coal-lovers in government. Demand for Australia's thermal coal exports to be dire in future, IEEFA report warns Quote: Economists are predicting Australia's thermal coal exports to plummet faster than expected due to falling demand across Asia that appears permanent and irreversible. The study found New South Wales, the source of nearly 70 per cent of thermal coal exports, should brace for disruption in energy markets. Think anyone'll pay attention?
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1st November 2018, 02:02 PM	#345
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Here's a kicker for the coal-lovers in government. Demand for Australia's thermal coal exports to be dire in future, IEEFA report warns Think anyone'll pay attention? Nah, the coal lovers will dismiss anything put out by IEEFA as just greeny propaganda and it will be business as usual, with the rallying cry of "chop down the wind turbines"....... as well as the trees.
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2nd November 2018, 10:31 AM	#346
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	It turns out that Victorian Opposition Leader Matthew Guy is a bible basher of Morrison proportions. He has stated that he’s proud to be a Christian (big deal, the few things I’m proud of don’t make me a remarkable person) and has recently announced he will re-introduce religious instruction into our legally secular schools. He won’t win votes with this policy in my view. Bible bashers were already going to vote Liberal.
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2nd November 2018, 01:35 PM	#347
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps?
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2nd November 2018, 06:03 PM	#348
novaphile Quester of Doglets Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 2,937	Originally Posted by Thor 2 Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps? I think it is because "the religious" could be as much as 10% of an electorate. (I'm counting "the religious" as the group of people who might changed their votes according to the religious views stated by a politician). Seats regularly change hands on less than 10% of the votes, so politicians make more noise about being religious.
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2nd November 2018, 06:08 PM	#349
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,163	Originally Posted by Thor 2 Strange that the degree of religiosity of politicians in our country, seems significantly higher than that of the general public. The religious feel driven to enter politics perhaps? Or perhaps the politicians opportunistically wear their claims of religiosity on their sleeves? Religion has always been used by the ambitious as a tool to gain secular power.
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3rd November 2018, 12:03 PM	#350
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	Originally Posted by quadraginta Or perhaps the politicians opportunistically wear their claims of religiosity on their sleeves? Religion has always been used by the ambitious as a tool to gain secular power. I am convinced that Guy and Morrison are full-on Christians. Morrison has even said that his Christianity will guide his political decision-making. These guys are seriously dangerous, and I predict both will crash and burn. And badly, in a way which will leave their party in opposition for many years.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd November 2018, 12:59 PM	#351
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,733	Originally Posted by lionking I am convinced that Guy and Morrison are full-on Christians. Morrison has even said that his Christianity will guide his political decision-making. These guys are seriously dangerous, and I predict both will crash and burn. And badly, in a way which will leave their party in opposition for many years. They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it. A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history.
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3rd November 2018, 01:30 PM	#352
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it. A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history. While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

3rd November 2018, 01:52 PM	#353
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,503	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander They are no worse than that toad, Abbott. Already a religious zealot of mad Jesuit proportions, way too many shots to the head getting his boxing blue has left him with vindictive nastiness as the only higher function operating in his cerebral cortex. Even his own party members warned newcomers how personally vicious he could be. And ScoMo is in the big chair only because Abbott just had to get revenge on Malcolm getting him tossed out of it. A very nasty piece of work. Hopefully soon to be in the dustbin of history. Originally Posted by lionking While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s. Do not count on a Labor victory. The Liberals won government making Abbott PM. Even if Labor does win do not expect a very bright PM. I read his Facebook feed and he has promised heaps of money to heaps of people. So where is he getting the money from?
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3rd November 2018, 02:11 PM	#354
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,588	Originally Posted by lionking While I agree with all of this, to my recollection Abbott’s decisions were not guided by his faith. And neither were the Catholic Keating’s. I wonder about this. I wonder why Abbott was/is such an avid climate change denier. God has his hands on the helm so all is well maybe? God has given us all this coal and oil to burn? Morrison may be more of a worry in this regard as a Pentecostal. Don't those guys go on about "end times" and such. Why worry about global warming if Jesus is going to do his spectacular return soon?
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3rd November 2018, 02:25 PM	#355
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,967	Originally Posted by rjh01 Do not count on a Labor victory. The Liberals won government making Abbott PM. Even if Labor does win do not expect a very bright PM. I read his Facebook feed and he has promised heaps of money to heaps of people. So where is he getting the money from? Money is not a problem. Companies profits (and company taxes) are at higher than predicted levels, as are mining royalties (predictions were that they would fall and they haven’t). Is “where is the money from” your only evidence that Shorten is not bright? If so, you are wrong. If not, what evidence do you have? In any case, it’s the cabinet which is the real measure of whether a government is successful or not. The LNP is in disarray, with even Joyce likely to become deputy PM. Labor is united.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill