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Old 23rd January 2021, 08:26 AM   #3241
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
No, you seem to consider the BBC to be a mouthpiece and cheerleader.

If it was then the BMA's criticism wouldn't see the light of day. Your complaint appears to be that it doesn't provide a continuous litany of criticism of the government. That's not its job.
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yet they are one of the few that seem to pretty much always mention that the figure is for a single dose not for being vaccinated. Seems strange with your views that they are going against what the UK government is trying to do.

Well, let's just agree to disagree on that. This isn't a thread about the BBC, and the points you highlight are well made.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 08:30 AM   #3242
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes. The government will screw up the rollout completely.

I hope the devolved governments can plot their own course but I fear that they'll come under increasing pressure if England's vaccination rate is twice theirs, never mind that the devolved governments are vaccinating effectively and the English vaccination programme is just window dressing.

I don't know about Wales, but Scotland isn't doing any better on the second dose issue as far as I can see. They're currently being monstered by the Tories for "lagging behind", but this isn't because they're giving people their second injections, it's because they're prioritising care home residents, who take longer to reach, and leaving the over-80s who are healthy and living independently until the care homes have been largely covered.

Scotland has meekly fallen into line on the one-dose-will-do-for-now diktat, and I fear it is all going to end very badly.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 09:10 AM   #3243
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I don't know about Wales, but Scotland isn't doing any better on the second dose issue as far as I can see. They're currently being monstered by the Tories for "lagging behind", but this isn't because they're giving people their second injections, it's because they're prioritising care home residents, who take longer to reach, and leaving the over-80s who are healthy and living independently until the care homes have been largely covered.

Scotland has meekly fallen into line on the one-dose-will-do-for-now diktat, and I fear it is all going to end very badly.
Wales is being criticised for its slow vaccination rate. Wales is currently pursuing the same single vaccine strategy. I agree that it's likely to end badly.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 01:01 PM   #3244
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Wait. The scientists and medics who designed the vaccines carefully calculated the exact composition and dosage needed. They specifically said the second application should be within six weeks . The Health Standards regulators carefully studied the results of the trials and their effectiveness and released the vaccination for use by the general public.

Now, I respect Christ Whitty and Jonathan Van Tam, but it seems they have sat down with Bozo and Matthew Hancock, and decided that to get it to as many people as possible they would stretch it to twelve weeks instead, which one suspects might be extendable again. Of course, they are panicking because of the sheer numbers of new deaths, hospital admissions and deaths, but the truth is this amounts to gross misuse of office to override the drug and vaccination regulating bodies. The people who had jab no.1 ( William Shakespeare, et al) are now at Day 42. They have been lied to and the contract of a second vaccination by Day 42, breached. As this hasn't been trialed, nobody knows the effect of changing the prescribed parameters.

The BBC only looks good because the rest of the press is so bad. It drives me nuts getting 'notifications' about 'Boris' hailing this or blasting that, as though he is a cuddly teddy bear-like figure whom everybody looks upon affectionally, like Paddington Bear, as though he is some kind of loveable rogue. No! Alex Johnson is a scoundrel, there is nothing loveable about him, cast from the same mould as Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. He is a complete and utter rake.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 02:31 PM   #3245
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Grant Shapps under fire as ...

"Ministers are at the centre of an explosive row over their failure to protect workers from Covid-19 as the Observer reveals the largest workplace outbreak of the virus has taken place at a top government organisation.

More than 500 cases have been recorded at the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency’s offices in Swansea, where employees claim people with symptoms were encouraged to return to work while vulnerable workers have had requests to work from home turned down.
...
A complaint received by Public Health Wales’s outbreak control team claims DVLA workers were asked to turn off their test-and-trace apps “so that their phones do not ping”.

It also says absences relating to Covid have been counted against workers’ sick leave, with anything over 10 days triggering a warning." The Guardian

Utterly appalling. How will he spin his way out of this?
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Old 23rd January 2021, 03:28 PM   #3246
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And don't forget that is an organisation that will do everything by the book and the employees have strong unions.

I know pretty much before the current lockdown many large retailers had gone back to their usual "don't work, don't get paid, don't have a job" approach to all sickness.
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Old 24th January 2021, 07:09 AM   #3247
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I've changed my graphs to a 2-year timeperiod to capture the winter period

ONS England and Wales data



It's not looking pretty for January
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Old 24th January 2021, 07:12 AM   #3248
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I've changed my graphs to a 2-year timeperiod to capture the winter period

ONS England and Wales data

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsgMxPQX...png&name=small

It's not looking pretty for January
See the red lines are less than the other colours, so it shows all these so called extra deaths from covid don’t exist, if they did the redlines would be above the other deaths!

(Been practicing newspeak.)
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Old 24th January 2021, 07:42 AM   #3249
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
See the red lines are less than the other colours, so it shows all these so called extra deaths from covid don’t exist, if they did the redlines would be above the other deaths!

(Been practicing newspeak.)
I think the red line is mostly lockdown deaths - you can tell because they rise at the start of the lockdown and then craftily fall as the lockdown progresses.
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Old 24th January 2021, 08:50 AM   #3250
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I think the red line is mostly lockdown deaths - you can tell because they rise at the start of the lockdown and then craftily fall as the lockdown progresses.
You’re good at this.
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Old 24th January 2021, 09:21 AM   #3251
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Jenny Eclair the comedian has tweeted that her partner has been texted to make his covid jab appt at a hospital in London but he's already had his first dose at local clinic and was given a second appt in 12 weeks.
She made some enquiries and it seems that although it is all supposed to go through a system called 'Pinnacle' there is no single database.
People will get at least 2 invites. Public Health England are working to invite people to their nearest 'hub', and CCGs are inviting their patients from each general practice they oversee to a more local centre.
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Old 24th January 2021, 04:13 PM   #3252
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You’re good at this.
Sadly I have been spending a lot of time on Twitter @parkinjim attempting to counter what misinformation I can.

I seem quite good at getting under the skin of some of them*, and indeed getting trolled who end up blocking me.

*@FatEmperor for example, who is getting a good income from his Patraeon account and his kickstarter fund for a Covid denial video.

I never thought I'd be arguing on the same side as a Tufton Street think tank member.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 24th January 2021, 05:14 PM   #3253
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I have recently retweeted Piers Morgan and Andrew Neil. I commented approvingly on a blog post from Effie Deans. I unblocked Claire Heuchan and Frances Barber. These are weird times.
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:24 AM   #3254
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Jenny Eclair the comedian has tweeted that her partner has been texted to make his covid jab appt at a hospital in London but he's already had his first dose at local clinic and was given a second appt in 12 weeks.
She made some enquiries and it seems that although it is all supposed to go through a system called 'Pinnacle' there is no single database.
People will get at least 2 invites. Public Health England are working to invite people to their nearest 'hub', and CCGs are inviting their patients from each general practice they oversee to a more local centre.
I have more faith in the local CCGs, at least mine seem pretty efficient, based on the reports in the local press.

I recently had an invitation from the NHS to have a flu vaccination, ignoring the fact that I’d had one several months ago (at my own expense). The letter came from somewhere central, not from my GP (who should have been informed about my jab).
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Old 25th January 2021, 06:27 AM   #3255
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This website, from the right-wing of politics attempting to refute the shifting claims of Toby Young, Julia Hartley Brewer and other, mainly right wing grifters. Neil O'Brien, Tory MP, has leant his name to it.

Seems to be a very useful development
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Old 25th January 2021, 07:24 AM   #3256
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What is all this nonsense of a “lost generation of kids” if schools don’t open soon? Where does such crap come from? There are plenty of ways the missed months of schooling can be made up. Personally I’d say to repeat the current education year for all kids in secondary school.
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Old 25th January 2021, 07:42 AM   #3257
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What is all this nonsense of a “lost generation of kids” if schools don’t open soon? Where does such crap come from? There are plenty of ways the missed months of schooling can be made up. Personally I’d say to repeat the current education year for all kids in secondary school.
I think it's because the public don't seem to be warming to the "we've got to open the schools so the proles can go to work" message that the Conservatives have been promoting.

Instead of worrying about their share dividends, the Tories have decided to pretend to care about children's educational welfare - though obviously not about whether or not they eat.
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Old 25th January 2021, 08:26 AM   #3258
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think it's because the public don't seem to be warming to the "we've got to open the schools so the proles can go to work" message that the Conservatives have been promoting.

Instead of worrying about their share dividends, the Tories have decided to pretend to care about children's educational welfare - though obviously not about whether or not they eat.
Yep.

And of course the government approach of “let them eat cake” sorry “let them work” ends up with the poorest dying at a much higher rate than the comfortable class:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b6fe97669dd57d

.... Manual labourers, nurses and transport workers have some of the highest death rates involving Covid-19 compared to other professions, new figures suggest.

The figures differ for men and women but, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), manual labour had the highest death rate for men: 699 deaths per 100,000 male workers in that sector.....
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Old 25th January 2021, 08:44 AM   #3259
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yep.

And of course the government approach of “let them eat cake” sorry “let them work” ends up with the poorest dying at a much higher rate than the comfortable class:
Let the proles die......

Quote:
Men working in processing plants had the highest rates of Covid-19 deaths in England and Wales last year, according to figures published by the Office for National Statistics.

The factory workers recorded a rate of 143.2 deaths per 100,000 males, compared with a rate of 31.4 deaths among men of the same age in the wider population.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-5...ost_type=share
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Old 25th January 2021, 09:06 AM   #3260
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Meanwhile in a lighter vein


https://twitter.com/garius/status/1353737518672470016
Quote:
John Bull
@garius
Replying to
@ParkinJim
and
@brightsider123
"I've apologised to the Prime Minister, my constitutiency chair, my wife and my children and I think it's important now to just move on from this."

Worth reading the thread that this is referring to
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Old 25th January 2021, 09:09 AM   #3261
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Sir Norman Fry

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:10 PM   #3262
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According to Helsingin Sanomat, quoting the German newspaper BILD, the AstraZeneca vaccine has only been approved by the EU for under-65's only, claiming it is only about 8% effective for those over that age.


Quote:
German media: Astra Zeneca's vaccine would only be approved by the EU for people under the age of 65 due to poor efficacy in its parents The coronavirus vaccine, developed by Astra Zeneca and the University of Oxford, may only be approved for vaccination of people under the age of 65, according to the German newspaper Bild. According to German government sources interviewed by Bild, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) may only approve vaccination of people under the age of 65 with Astra Zeneca because the vaccine would provide little protection for the elderly. According to data received by Bild, the effectiveness of the vaccine in people over 65 years of age would be less than ten percent. According to information from government sources in the German business magazine Handelsblatt, the effectiveness of the vaccine in people over 65 is expected to be in the 8% range. This would not be close to the over 90% efficiencies reported by Pfizer / Biontech and Moderna, for example.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) is expected to give its assessment of the vaccine on Friday 29 January this week. According to Handelsblatt, the German Ministry of Health is already examining how the vaccination schedule should be adapted. Germany had originally planned to use Astra Zeneca specifically for the elderly, but this should be changed quickly if the terms of the marketing authorization do not recommend it.

A large number of Finns are also to be immunized with Astra Zeneca vaccines. Astra Zeneca responded to Bild’s request for comment on Sunday, saying the first study results published on the vaccine are based on results from subjects aged 18-55. However, according to the company, the vaccine is expected to be equally effective in all age groups. In November, the pharmaceutical company published preliminary research results on its vaccine. According to the company, its vaccine provides at least 70% protection against the symptoms of coronavirus disease. On the other hand, the same studies found that a protective effect of up to 90% can be achieved with a certain type of dosage.

Astra Zeneca announced last week that it would not be able to supply the EU with nearly as many vaccines as planned in early spring. According to Bild, Astra Zeneca will only be able to deliver 31 million vaccine doses out of its promised 80 million. The European Union has called on Astra Zeneca to investigate the reasons for the shortfall and to supply the vaccines it has promised.
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000007759719.html ] Google translate


In other news, AstraZeneca will be meeting EU leaders on Monday - not sure if that's today or next Monday - to explain to the EU why there is a shortfall in the promised production and supply of the vaccine for the EU, with Ursula Von Der Leyen threatening to sue for breach of contract.
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:18 PM   #3263
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From Wednesday: Finland shuts its borders for 30 days. The current rate of infection is increasing at apx 4.5% per diem.

Quote:
THE NEW restrictions will take effect next Wednesday, January 27th. They are valid for 30 days until 25 February.

How are restrictions tightened?
FROM NEXT Wednesday, only necessary commuting, such as that is important for the functioning of society or security of supply, will be allowed across borders.

The entry of a foreign national from the restricted EU and Schengen countries is also allowed for certain family reasons.

Finnish citizens and residents of Finland can still cross the border under the Constitution.
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000007760518.html


Re the last sentence, only if they can find an airline or cruise ship/ferry that is available! I believe Finnair is still flying back from London journeys empty.

The newer more virulent strains - according to Israel and the USA, and as hinted by the UK - is deeply worrying to various governments, especially as the virus seems to like cooler temperatures.
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:23 PM   #3264
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Re the developing conflict between the EU and Astra Zeneca - with some hinting on social media that the pharmaceutical firm may have given preference to another client/country above the EU, hence the 60% shortfall in promised supplies.

Quote:
THE EUROPEAN Union asked the pharmaceutical company Astra Zeneca on Monday night for a new explanation as to why the company has cut its first vaccine deliveries to the Union and delayed getting vaccines to EU countries.

According to information received by the news agency Reuters, the President of the Commission Ursula von der Leyen called Pascal Soriot , the CEO of the pharmaceutical company, earlier on Monday and reminded him of the company's contracts with the Union.

EU Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides says on Twitter that the Commission is not happy with the company's explanations and that the EU people are planning to meet Astra Zeneca representatives on vaccines again on Monday night.
HS
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:58 PM   #3265
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This is quickly developing into a crisis. The EU hasn't ordered enough vaccines (300m). Astra-Zeneca - factory in the UK - can only deliver 31m for now. The French Pasteur Merck brand has been abandoned as being ineffective. However, Moderna has now been approved.

Let's get back to this 8% effectiveness rate for AstraZeneca. If it is the case that Alexander Johnson is giving over 70's 'a jab in the arm' just because AZ is British and its effectiveness is a poor 8% in that age group, people maybe being lulled into a false sense of security. (I understand the over 80's got the Pfizer jab which is 95% effective after two shots.)
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Old 25th January 2021, 11:26 PM   #3266
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Red face

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
This is quickly developing into a crisis. The EU hasn't ordered enough vaccines (300m). Astra-Zeneca - factory in the UK - can only deliver 31m for now. The French Pasteur Merck brand has been abandoned as being ineffective. However, Moderna has now been approved.

Let's get back to this 8% effectiveness rate for AstraZeneca. If it is the case that Alexander Johnson is giving over 70's 'a jab in the arm' just because AZ is British and its effectiveness is a poor 8% in that age group, people maybe being lulled into a false sense of security. (I understand the over 80's got the Pfizer jab which is 95% effective after two shots.)
Or the 8% number could be wrong. The counterpoint...

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...y-in-over-65s/
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Old 26th January 2021, 01:15 AM   #3267
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Wait. The scientists and medics who designed the vaccines carefully calculated the exact composition and dosage needed. They specifically said the second application should be within six weeks . The Health Standards regulators carefully studied the results of the trials and their effectiveness and released the vaccination for use by the general public.

Now, I respect Christ Whitty and Jonathan Van Tam, but it seems they have sat down with Bozo and Matthew Hancock, and decided that to get it to as many people as possible they would stretch it to twelve weeks instead, which one suspects might be extendable again. Of course, they are panicking because of the sheer numbers of new deaths, hospital admissions and deaths, but the truth is this amounts to gross misuse of office to override the drug and vaccination regulating bodies. The people who had jab no.1 ( William Shakespeare, et al) are now at Day 42. They have been lied to and the contract of a second vaccination by Day 42, breached. As this hasn't been trialed, nobody knows the effect of changing the prescribed parameters.

The BBC only looks good because the rest of the press is so bad. It drives me nuts getting 'notifications' about 'Boris' hailing this or blasting that, as though he is a cuddly teddy bear-like figure whom everybody looks upon affectionally, like Paddington Bear, as though he is some kind of loveable rogue. No! Alex Johnson is a scoundrel, there is nothing loveable about him, cast from the same mould as Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. He is a complete and utter rake.
As I previously pointed out the idea of giving as many people as possible a first dose and deferring a second dose was not something that came from the government. The JCVI is a four nation body with independent specialists and there is no suggestion they were 'forced' into following a government diktat. The same applies to MHRA, the people involved are independent professionals again there is no suggestion they were forced into following a political line. I know some of the people involved, they are doctors whose first concern is for their patients; that their patient are the UK population makes no difference to their ethical responsibility. You would have seen resignations if this was a political rather than scientific and medical decision.

There is no evidence that Pfizer looked at any other regimes. Doing studies on different regimes would have delayed completion of studies. You over assume the science behind the regime choice. AZ certainly have data showing that a three month interval may be better than a shorter interval. We know that in most vaccines a longer interval is better.

I have been invited for my second dose. i will put my money where my mouth is and defer my second dose as long as possible - actually 2 months is the latest I can book.
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Old 26th January 2021, 01:25 AM   #3268
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Jean Freeman has really screwed up. Apparently (however it was fixed) the UK had got preferential access to European supplies of vaccine; which is why EU is complaining it has insufficient and the UK has sufficient. Having leaked this there is considerable concern that the UK will lose promised supplies of vaccine now that other countries know how much vaccine the UK is getting and will put pressure on particularly Pfizer to supply proportionately to the EU.
In part the current EU threat to block export of vaccines may be a response to this. It was certainly predicted that this might happen.

The UK (proportionate to population) subsidised vaccine development to a greater extent than the EU. To some extent I am told that those countries who provided greater support in funding vaccine development did get priority in ordering. I am not sure how Israel got priority, it certainly paid a very high price to Pfizer, but it also approved early.

Certainly I worry that if the EU blocks vaccine export then other countries may do so. The US might do so, and if the UK has limited access to Pfizer and Moderna vaccines then there will certainly be pressure to keep AZ doses 'at home'. This threat by the EU is politically very dangerous opening up as it does the possibility of a global covid cold war. Certainly expect some stern words from WHO and NGOs.
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Old 26th January 2021, 01:38 AM   #3269
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Today's WTF moment comes from United Nations, crying because muslins in Sri Lanka are seeing their family members who died of Covid cremated instead of buried in terms of their sky-daddy's wishes: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...uman-rights-un
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:03 AM   #3270
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Or the 8% number could be wrong. The counterpoint...

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...y-in-over-65s/
Truth is, the figure is neither right nor wrong because there were so few people in the older age group in the trials - and two of them contracted Covid19 - the scientists were unable to provide a confidence level figure for this demographic.

I suspect the EU regulators have taken the literal view and said, OK it's proven 70% effective for the age groups as described in the UK trials but the older age group has only been trialled up to the 8% level for certain.

It's all very well for scientists to extrapolate and say well if it is 70% for the other age groups, we can assume it is similar for the older groups.

However, there are many many variables that can affect immunity: previous infections, general health, previous compromises to the immune system, allergies, having had the BGC (TB shot), the flu vaccination in the previous year - all of these have been shown to be possible factors in how well one's body fights a virus infection.

For example, influenssa might be of no consequence for the average person yet for someone over a certain age it could be much more serious. There are several illnesses - mumps, chicken pox, polio - which are far more serious in adults than in children, so we can see why the EMA EU regulators are looking at age groups.
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:12 AM   #3271
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Today's WTF moment comes from United Nations, crying because muslins in Sri Lanka are seeing their family members who died of Covid cremated instead of buried in terms of their sky-daddy's wishes: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...uman-rights-un
In a country like Sri Lanka which is such a tinderbox, it's understandable that such a thing could cause offence especially when the official and majority religion, Buddhism, supports the "enforced" method of body disposal - especially when there's no evidence that burial is an issue from a public health perspective.

Personally I don't care what happens to me after my death and I don't particularly care what happens to those I love (so long as there's a degree of respect) but I also understand that there are people who deeply care and who think that if their dead body isn't handled correctly then there will be consequences in the afterlife. Superstitious nonsense IMO, but if there's no harm in acceding to their wishes (and in this case there appears not to be) then why not do so ?
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:17 AM   #3272
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
As I previously pointed out the idea of giving as many people as possible a first dose and deferring a second dose was not something that came from the government. The JCVI is a four nation body with independent specialists and there is no suggestion they were 'forced' into following a government diktat. The same applies to MHRA, the people involved are independent professionals again there is no suggestion they were forced into following a political line. I know some of the people involved, they are doctors whose first concern is for their patients; that their patient are the UK population makes no difference to their ethical responsibility. You would have seen resignations if this was a political rather than scientific and medical decision.

There is no evidence that Pfizer looked at any other regimes. Doing studies on different regimes would have delayed completion of studies. You over assume the science behind the regime choice. AZ certainly have data showing that a three month interval may be better than a shorter interval. We know that in most vaccines a longer interval is better.

I have been invited for my second dose. i will put my money where my mouth is and defer my second dose as long as possible - actually 2 months is the latest I can book.
As I see it the are three separate issues here:
  • weighing up costs versus benefits
  • being careful not to alarm the anti-vaxxers and the public in general
  • how effective is the Astra Zeneca vaccine really?

For the first issue, one has to weigh up the pros and the cons. Say you have a patient who will almost certainly die if you do not perform an urgent operation which has a proven risk level of say, 70% success. Weighing up the benefits versus the cost of doing nothing, of course, you undertake the emergency operation, which one might not perform under normal circumstances.

Faced with - at the time - near 70,000 mortalities and a soaring infection rate, of course the regulators will take a view that there was nothing to lose in releasing the vaccine because after all, of those who went on to contract Covid19, all were relatively mild cases. So, of course, you roll out the vaccine urgently as a matter of public interest.

HOWEVER, that is not to say there are no reservations. There is a view in the press and the mass media, one must not say anything that might undermine public confidence in the AstraZeneca vaccine but the fact is, the trial dosages were not as per the planned schedules and accidentally halved for the British volunteer cohort and the ensuing results seeming to be better than for the Brazilian one, which again had different parameter to the British trials.

Under normal circumstances the regulators would demand the trial be run again testing the new hypothesis of only needing half the prescribed original dose. But hey, here we have an emergency, let's just apply it en masse and assume everything will be all right based on common sense and weighing up the costs versus the benefits (which as sceptics we should recognise is Business Enterprise and Politics and NOT science, so please don't persuade us it is science).
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:24 AM   #3273
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Faced with - at the time - near 70,000 mortalities and a soaring infection rate, of course the regulators will take a view that there was nothing to lose in releasing the vaccine because after all, of those who went on to contract Covid19, all were relatively mild cases. So, of course, you roll out the vaccine urgently as a matter of public interest.
In the UK, the decision to maximise the number of first vaccines at the expense of doing second vaccines was a political decision, not one which was driven by science. The science has subsequently been bent to fit, with varying degrees of success. Indeed, it seems the closer one is to actual subject matter expertise, the less likely one is to support the 12 week gap between vaccinations (and does anyone believe for one moment that the government will be happy for the number of first vaccinations to drop precipitously in 2-3 months time as the second vaccinations fall due ?).

IMO as usual the government has been spooked by bad headlines, has chosen a course of action which is designed to generate the most positive headlines and may have been shown to have made a very poor choice in the medium term.
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:29 AM   #3274
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
In part the current EU threat to block export of vaccines may be a response to this. It was certainly predicted that this might happen.

The UK (proportionate to population) subsidised vaccine development to a greater extent than the EU. To some extent I am told that those countries who provided greater support in funding vaccine development did get priority in ordering. I am not sure how Israel got priority, it certainly paid a very high price to Pfizer, but it also approved early.

Certainly I worry that if the EU blocks vaccine export then other countries may do so. The US might do so, and if the UK has limited access to Pfizer and Moderna vaccines then there will certainly be pressure to keep AZ doses 'at home'. This threat by the EU is politically very dangerous opening up as it does the possibility of a global covid cold war. Certainly expect some stern words from WHO and NGOs.
The UK was urgently getting its supplies from the Belgian factory just before Christmas under a cloak of some secrecy do to fears of attracting the attention of racketeers and delivered via the Eurotunnel to the UK depots.

The AstraZeneca plant in Belgium which it shares with Nova..?? (_sp?) has now informed the EU that it can now only provide 31m shots instead of the contracted 100m. ISTM the EU threat to bar export of Pfizer and Moderna to the UK is because it smells a rat and suspects that the UK has pulled a fast one, and taken the EU's designated share of the supplies. This may be why it has demanded to examine AstraZeneca's records which it has a legal right to do. Bear in mind it invested heavily in the development of the vaccine. AstraZeneca is now setting up a production line in Wrexham, UK so it no longer needs to rely on Belgian/Netherland supplies.

As a possible sanction against the apparent breach of contract the EU are threatening to withhold the EU manufactured Pfizer/Moderna vaccines from the UK, being a 'third country' due to the scarcity of the AstraZeneca one, and which is unlikely to pass the EU regulators for the >65 age group.

This is something that could escalate into a political crisis quite quickly, what with the Dutch and the Danes rioting in the streets over the continued lockdowns and curfews.
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:30 AM   #3275
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Today's WTF moment comes from United Nations, crying because muslins in Sri Lanka are seeing their family members who died of Covid cremated instead of buried in terms of their sky-daddy's wishes: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...uman-rights-un
It's not just Muslims, you know, many Christians also prefer burial to cremation.
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Old 26th January 2021, 03:17 AM   #3276
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
... and does anyone believe for one moment that the government will be happy for the number of first vaccinations to drop precipitously in 2-3 months time as the second vaccinations fall due ?
This is what gets me.
There's no avoiding the drop in vaccination rate, you can only postpone it.
They have essentially postponed the inevitable drop in rate by 6 weeks.

At 24 weeks the same number of people will have been vaccinated with at least 1 shot whether you had 12 weeks or 6 if there's no increase in rate.
If there is an increase in rate you've bought yourself 3 or 4 weeks. That's if the rate increases steadily, which is unlikely. We'll have bottlenecks.
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Old 26th January 2021, 03:24 AM   #3277
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Third night of anti lockdown riots across cities in the Netherlands.

Tear gas and water cannons are being used.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55799919
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Old 26th January 2021, 03:41 AM   #3278
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
This is what gets me.
There's no avoiding the drop in vaccination rate, you can only postpone it.
They have essentially postponed the inevitable drop in rate by 6 weeks.

At 24 weeks the same number of people will have been vaccinated with at least 1 shot whether you had 12 weeks or 6 if there's no increase in rate.
If there is an increase in rate you've bought yourself 3 or 4 weeks. That's if the rate increases steadily, which is unlikely. We'll have bottlenecks.
Well, one factor is the rate of vaccine production, which I think is the main limiting factor at the moment, and it's possible that may be expected to ramp up in the next few weeks.

Secondly, if they get the 9 listed categories all done with their first jab, it may then be sensible to do the second injection for them before moving on to the under 50s.
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Old 26th January 2021, 03:45 AM   #3279
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Even then, though, that has much the same effect at 12 or 6 week cycles.
You only gain 3 weeks or so.
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Old 26th January 2021, 04:21 AM   #3280
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Matt Hancock describing “enhanced” contact tracing: getting people to self isolate, getting their contacts to self isolate, providing so the support they need.
Isn’t that just how contact tracing should work when it cost £22 billion?
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