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Old 12th December 2020, 02:34 PM   #121
theprestige
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yet again you are conflating being anti-extra judicial murder with support.

I do not support the Iranian regime in any way - they're a crazy bunch of islamofascists.

But that doesn't give me, Israel or USA the right to kill them.
Fringe reset much?

The Iranian regime being actively at war with its neighbors and their allies is what justifies military action against them, up to and including strikes against their military commanders and key technical personnel. I guarantee you that if the Iranian regime gave up its nuclear ambitions and abandoned its program of warfare-by-terrorism, they'd get a lot better treatment.

Also you 'racism' argument is pure, unadulterated, pants-on-head-retarded dishonesty. Behold my evidences! Israel: Full of "brown people", gets good treatment. Saudi Arabia: Full of "brown people", gets good treatment. Kuwait: Full of "brown people", gets good treatment. Egypt: Full of "brown people", gets good treatment. India: Full of "brown people", gets good treatment.

But Iran? As you say, "they're a crazy bunch of islamofascists". And they're not peaceful about it, either. You ever stop to wonder if maybe that is why they get treated the way they do?

Last edited by theprestige; 12th December 2020 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 12th December 2020, 04:54 PM   #122
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
ah the content free unwillingness to self reflect
... he said, in a content-free post lacking any self reflection.
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Old 12th December 2020, 05:31 PM   #123
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Iranian regime being actively at war with its neighbors
You have a very strange concept of what "active war" means, and the statement is pure nonsense.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I guarantee you that if the Iranian regime gave up its nuclear ambitions and abandoned its program of warfare-by-terrorism, they'd get a lot better treatment.
Failing to answer my point that hostilities were minimal when USA was adhering to the agreement arranged by Obama. It was peaceful until your orange hero cancelled it.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Also you 'racism' argument...
You're getting me mixed up with someone else.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
But Iran? As you say, "they're a crazy bunch of islamofascists". And they're not peaceful about it, either. You ever stop to wonder if maybe that is why they get treated the way they do?
I repeat - there was peace until your boy Trump decided to unilaterally rip the agreement up.

Maybe it's you who should stop and think.
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Old 13th December 2020, 05:56 AM   #124
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I repeat - there was peace until your boy Trump decided to unilaterally rip the agreement up.
No, there was not. If you think there was, you were not paying attention.
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Old 13th December 2020, 07:07 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I don't believe that was in retaliation for the earlier attacks. They launched missiles at retaliatory targets and the shooting down of the airliner occurred days later.
I think his point was it is possible that thing similar to shootdown of civilian airplane (because of paranoid atmosphere after assassination of Suleiman) could happen again after assassination of that scientist.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Here come the Iranian fanboys.
Amaxzing how a right wing religoius regime has coneed so many on the left into supporting them.
You do not need to support Iran to note USA's role in shaping Iran as it is today (fervently denied by certain people here, of course, since it would mean USA has it's share of blame for Iran's current state and we can't have that, do we?).
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Old 13th December 2020, 10:00 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, there was not. If you think there was, you were not paying attention.
I've asked for evidence of Iran's aggressive acts during the duration of the agreement.

And nobody has posted any.

I've searched records online to find evidence of Iran's aggressive acts during the duration of the agreement.

And found none.

There is ample evidence of aggressive acts before and after the agreement was put in place.

I'm quite prepared to accept evidence of Iran's aggression in that period, but I've been unable to find any.

You clearly have that evidence.

Go ahead and show it.
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Old 13th December 2020, 10:14 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You have a very strange concept of what "active war" means, and the statement is pure nonsense.
I find it strange that so few other intelligent people don't see Iran's use of terrorism as warfare against its neighbors and their allies.

Quote:
Failing to answer my point that hostilities were minimal when USA was adhering to the agreement arranged by Obama. It was peaceful until your orange hero cancelled it.
Hostilities were minimal because Obama refused to take the regime to task for abrogating the agreement.

Iran is threatening violence to get its way. This is extortion, and Obama cooperated with extortionists. I'd rather have a little violence now in a good cause, then let Iran get to the point where it can back its extortion with nuclear weapons.

Quote:
You're getting me mixed up with someone else.
Yep! My bad.

Quote:
I repeat - there was peace until your boy Trump decided to unilaterally rip the agreement up.
No, there was not. Iran actively promotes and funds violence throughout the region. And they had already abrogated the agreement by the time Trump took office. It wasn't him that tore it up.

Quote:
Maybe it's you who should stop and think.
Stop and think about all of Iran's state-sponsored terrorism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_a...ther_countries
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Old 13th December 2020, 10:42 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I find it strange that so few other intelligent people don't see Iran's use of terrorism as warfare against its neighbors and their allies.
As those intelligent people can also see that things like Israel's terrorist activities are also warfare against their neighbours and their allies, it seems a reasonable thing to look for, although I haven't denied any of Iran's atrocities, so I don't know who you mean.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Hostilities were minimal because Obama refused to take the regime to task for abrogating the agreement.
Now we're getting somewhere slowly - you admit the hostilities dimmed to a flicker.

But do show how they abrogated the agreement - it looked to me as though they were complying right up your orange buddy ditching it.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Iran is threatening violence to get its way.
It's a bit tu quoque, but in a world where America, Russia, China, Israel and several dozen other countries use and threaten violence to get their own way, it's hardly something to single them out for.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stop and think about all of Iran's state-sponsored terrorism?
Maybe they'd ditch the terrorism if countries on the other side did likewise.

Worked in Northern Ireland. Mostly.
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Old 13th December 2020, 01:43 PM   #129
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I've asked for evidence of Iran's aggressive acts during the duration of the agreement.

And nobody has posted any.

I've searched records online to find evidence of Iran's aggressive acts during the duration of the agreement.

And found none.

There is ample evidence of aggressive acts before and after the agreement was put in place.

I'm quite prepared to accept evidence of Iran's aggression in that period, but I've been unable to find any.

You clearly have that evidence.

Go ahead and show it.
For example:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN0UW1Q7
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Old 13th December 2020, 02:01 PM   #130
theprestige
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
As those intelligent people can also see that things like Israel's terrorist activities are also warfare against their neighbours and their allies, it seems a reasonable thing to look for, although I haven't denied any of Iran's atrocities, so I don't know who you mean.
I don't deny that Israel is at war with its neighbors.

I mean that you do deny that Iran is at war with its neighbors.
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Old 13th December 2020, 03:59 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post


Thanks for proving my point.

They arrested and released some sailors.

Quote:
The U.S. sailors, who were aboard two patrol craft, were detained by Iranís Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) on January 12 when they inadvertently entered Iranian territorial waters. They were released the next day after being held for about 15 hours.
Hardly an aggressive or violent act, and certainly not anything like an act of war or terrorism.

I'd be prepared to bet that anyone arrested after straying into US waters is going to be held for more than 15 hours, just going by the ICE cages and incarcerations.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't deny that Israel is at war with its neighbors.

I mean that you do deny that Iran is at war with its neighbors.
We just have the bar for "at war" set differently, but if that's where you want it set, then I'd agree Iran is at war with its neighbours and allies.

But clearly wasn't during the currency of the agreement, as Ziggurat has neatly evinced.
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Old 13th December 2020, 04:23 PM   #132
theprestige
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


Thanks for proving my point.

They arrested and released some sailors.



Hardly an aggressive or violent act, and certainly not anything like an act of war or terrorism.

I'd be prepared to bet that anyone arrested after straying into US waters is going to be held for more than 15 hours, just going by the ICE cages and incarcerations.



We just have the bar for "at war" set differently, but if that's where you want it set, then I'd agree Iran is at war with its neighbours and allies.

But clearly wasn't during the currency of the agreement, as Ziggurat has neatly evinced.
Evidenced*

And a slowing of operational tempo between major campaigns is not the same as not being at war. They didn't stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah during this period. They didn't stop supporting insurgents in Iraq during this period. And they didn't stop abrogating your precious agreement during this period.

The only reason they weren't causing more trouble directly for Obama was because he'd already given them a period of peace and quiet to advance their long-term strategy. They weren't going to **** that up for themselves, though Obama should have done it for them.
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Old 13th December 2020, 04:42 PM   #133
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And they didn't stop abrogating your precious agreement during this period.
That's what I don't get about supporters of the deal: the refusal to acknowledge that Iran has never actually abided by it.
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Old 13th December 2020, 05:30 PM   #134
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's what I don't get about supporters of the deal: the refusal to acknowledge that Iran has never actually abided by it.
Oh, but Obama never penalized them for it, so Peace For Our Time or something... Actually, that would make a lot of sense. The Munich Agreement was a huge success, thanks to the brilliant statesmanship of Neville Chamberlain, until that nasty old Winston Churchill called out poor Mister Adolf and started a war.
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Old 13th December 2020, 07:18 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Evidenced*
Nope.

I thought you might have noticed my custom title (or the last time you failed) and not bothered trying that kind of stuff again.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And a slowing of operational tempo between major campaigns is not the same as not being at war.
When it slows to zero, it is.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They didn't stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah during this period. They didn't stop supporting insurgents in Iraq during this period.
See my comment about NI - if Israel put down the guns first and treated claims to its occupied lands. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

If the ME situation was as easy as getting Hamas/Hezbollah to put their guns down even Jared Kushner could have solved it.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And they didn't stop abrogating your precious agreement during this period.
In. What. Way.

Please list your evidence of the ways they broke the agreement.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The only reason they weren't causing more trouble directly for Obama was because he'd already given them a period of peace and quiet to advance their long-term strategy. They weren't going to **** that up for themselves, though Obama should have done it for them.
With that kind of self-fulfilling prophecy you should have a go at writing a bible.

Just curious - where do you list Iran in threats to USA and/or world peace? Put this list in order, and feel free to add any:

North Korea
Russia
China
Afghanistan
Iran
ISIS
Al Qaeda
Al Shabaab/Boko Haram

Keeping in mind that Russia is still occupying Crimea and parts of Ukraine, North Korea is developing its nukes unhindered, China is still in charge of Honkers, and the Taliban is building an immense terrorist network thanks to all the lessons they've learned from America so far.
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Old 13th December 2020, 07:49 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oh, but Obama never penalized them for it, so Peace For Our Time or something... Actually, that would make a lot of sense. The Munich Agreement was a huge success, thanks to the brilliant statesmanship of Neville Chamberlain, until that nasty old Winston Churchill called out poor Mister Adolf and started a war.
Huh? Neville Chamberlain declared war, not Churchill.
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Old 14th December 2020, 09:10 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Huh? Neville Chamberlain declared war, not Churchill.
Heh. I guess it's true what they say about arguments from analogy. :-D
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:58 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
THis could get nasty with Iran swearing revenge.......
I just thought I'd check in and see how much vengeance they've done so far.
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