[Continuation] Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3 - Page 49

Bob001 · 17th September 2021, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows.

That's one specific conversation from almost 35 years ago. Got anything else?

W.D.Clinger · 17th September 2021, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

Stachyhs is confused about the meanings of the words "principle" and "principal", but is not confused about the events—although it is entirely possible Ziggurat, channeling Kellyanne Conway, is saying "version of events" when he/she means "alternative events".
.

No, I am not. I used "principle" correctly and not "principal". That was Lurch.http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post13601891

Originally Posted by carlitos

At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people.

As carlitos noted, Lurch used the word "principal" correctly. You, Stacyhs, used the word "principle" incorrectly.

Stacyhs · 17th September 2021, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows.

You mean this incident?

Quote:

CIA Director William Casey’s deathbed scene

Woodward claimed in his book “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA 1981-1987” that Casey admitted on his deathbed that he had known about the diversion of Iran arms sale money to the Contras.

But Casey’s daughter, Bernadette Casey Smith, claimed that Woodward “never got the deathbed confession,” according to the Houston Chronicle. In addition, Kevin Shipp, a member of Casey’s security detail, asserted in a self-published memoir that none of the agents standing guard over the Casey allowed Woodward into his hospital room at Georgetown University Hospital, and that in any case the former CIA director was not able to talk at the time Woodward cited.

In his defense, Woodward quotes William Donnelly, head of CIA administration, who said “Woodward probably found a way to sneak in,” and argues that the guards weren’t there 24/7 at the time.

So we have Bob Woodward, 2X Pulitzer Prize winner, vs. Casey's daughter, whose motive would be to protect her father's reputation and wasn't at his bedside 24/7, and a "self-published memoir" by a guy who claimed the guards, who weren't there 24/7, didn't let Woodward in and that Casey couldn't speak at the time. But that isn't true either:

Quote:

In addition, Kessler reported in his 2003 book "The CIA at War," any assertion that the CIA director “could not speak” at the time Woodward entered his room is mistaken.

“When I saw him in the hospital,” Robert Gates, Casey's deputy at the time, told Kessler, “his speech was even more slurred than usual, but if you knew him well, you could make out a few words, enough to get a sense of what he was saying. I briefed him on developments at the agency and the White House."

Gates related basically the same version in his own, 1996 memoir, “From the Shadows: The Ultimate Insider's Story of Five Presidents and How They Won the Cold War.”

But a number of CIA people, including Casey’s widow Sofia, still cannot bring themselves to believe Woodward’s account, if only because the CIA chief so fiercely advocated sending leakers to jail.

Quote:

But as both Woodward and Kessler point out, the CIA’s own internal records show that Casey talked with Woodward 43 times, either in person or on the phone, while the reporter was working on “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-87.”

Alex, I'll take "Who is more credible?" for a true double jeopardy.

Stacyhs · 17th September 2021, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people.

You are absolutely correct. Mea maxima culpa. Brain fart. It happens to us oldies but goodies. Color me

Originally Posted by carlitos

As for allegations about Trump's mental health from those around him ... I was reminded of these tidbits recently - from his communications directors, Secretary of State, etc.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...50abcb4b02.jpg

Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”
—White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh

“The White House has become an adult day care center”
—Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee

“Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth”
—former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss.

“Less a person than a collection of terrible traits”
—Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn.

“Someone who “sucks up and ***** down”
—former Fox News chief and confidant Roger Ailes.

Additionally:

Quote:

“A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.”

“Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.”

Tom Barrack, Friend and supporter,: "not only crazy, […] stupid"

Gary Cohh, Economic advisor: "an idiot surrounded by clowns"

H R McMaster, National security advisor: “An idiot [with the intelligence of] a kindergartener”

Sam Nunberg, Advisor: "this idiot"

Steve Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary: "an idiot"

Reince Preibus, Chief of Staff: "an idiot"

Stacyhs · 17th September 2021, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger

As carlitos noted, Lurch used the word "principal" correctly. You, Stacyhs, used the word "principle" incorrectly.

Yes, which I have acknowledged.

My ego is not such that I cannot admit when I'm wrong. Facts is facts. (Yes, I know it's "are".

)

Craig4 · 17th September 2021, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not?

Because he's on the downhill slide of his four year term with no place to go but retirement. He doesn't have to pander to the petty complaints and false pearl clutching of the filthy Trumptrash who tried to steal our election and betrayed their nation. He said what he needed to and wanted to say to Woodward. He doesn't have to demean his office by humoring the traitors, people who aren't even Americans.

Stacyhs · 17th September 2021, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not?

He has through his spokesman:

Quote:

In a written statement, Milley’s spokesman, Col. Dave Butler, said Milley acted within his authority as the most senior uniformed adviser to the president and to the secretary of defense.

“His calls with the Chinese and others in October and January were in keeping with these duties and responsibilities conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability,” Butler said. “All calls from the chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency.”

Quote:

In the statement Wednesday, Milley’s spokesman said Milley had conferred with the senior officers about nuclear weapons protocols “to remind uniformed leaders in the Pentagon of the long-established and robust procedures in light of media reporting on the subject.” Butler, the spokesman, appeared to be referring to news reports of the Jan. 8 Milley-Pelosi phone call.

whoanellie · 17th September 2021, 04:55 PM

This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed:
https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html

It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read.

Bob001 · 17th September 2021, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by whoanellie

This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed:
https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html

It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read.

Not making excuses for Woodward, but the criticism there is that he gets the facts right, but interprets them in ways that others find misleading:

Quote:

Wired is an infuriating piece of work. There’s a reason Woodward’s critics consistently come off as hysterical ninnies: He doesn’t make Jonah Lehrer–level mistakes. There’s never a smoking gun like an outright falsehood or a brazen ethical breach. And yet, in the final product, a lot of what Woodward writes comes off as being not quite right—some of it to the point where it can feel quite wrong. There’s no question that he frequently ferrets out information that other reporters don’t. But getting the scoop is only part of the equation. Once you have the facts, you have to present those facts in context and in proportion to other facts in order to accurately reflect reality. It’s here that Woodward fails.

Belushi's friends saw him as a funny, smart, talented, lovable guy and they wanted to see him portrayed that way. Woodward focused on the life-long drug addictions that killed him. As a Yale-educated ex-naval officer and son of a state judge, Woodward likely brought his own prejudices and narrow life experience to his subject. Maybe Woodward short-changed Belushi and his friends. But what's most relevant here is that one of his most outspoken critics admits that Woodward gets the facts right.

Stacyhs · 20th September 2021, 02:08 PM

How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"?

carlitos · 20th September 2021, 02:15 PM

Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal?

Stacyhs · 20th September 2021, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal?

As a former POTUS, yes.

Bob001 · 20th September 2021, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

As a former POTUS, yes.

Only for official correspondence, not political or commercial purposes.

Quote:

A criminal complaint has been filed against Donald Trump’s Bedminster golf club, charging the facility with misusing the presidential seal.

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a watchdog group and frequent critic of the former president, filed the complaint with the U.S. Justice Department after an Instagram photo showed the seal on a tee marker at the golf course.

Federal law prohibits the use of the seal to give “a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States,” CREW said in its complaint. Trump lost the Nov. 3 election to Joe Biden.

https://www.nj.com/politics/2021/08/...aint-says.html

It actually appears that Trump has designed his own seal.
https://copyrightlately.com/trump-office-great-seal/

Stacyhs · 20th September 2021, 10:47 PM

Thanks for more detail on the use of the seal, Bob001.

As regarding the question from Carlitos, Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states.

varwoche · 21st September 2021, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

... If Haspel actually thought that [risk of coup], then she's an idiot.

Musings from an alternate universe. A universe where a coup attempt didn't subsequently occur.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2021, 02:20 AM

I ran across the video by an attorney who teaches people how to deal with narcissists. Sound familiar?

Ten Things Narcissists Do to Make Themselves Appear Smarter

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Darat · 27th September 2021, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I ran across the video by an attorney who teaches people how to deal with narcissists. Sound familiar?

Ten Things Narcissists Do to Make Themselves Appear Smarter

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Number 11 - make annoying Youtube videos about how they are smarter than narcissists....

Ladewig · 27th September 2021, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8f824d80bf.jpg

I don’t think this should be a rhetorical question that can be passed over.
While I cannot claim that his letter a sign of mental illness, I am comfortable saying it is a sign that he should talk to mental health professionals for an evaluation.

Delvo · 27th September 2021, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states.

The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

JoeMorgue · 27th September 2021, 11:40 AM

Let's be honest though.

If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us?

Stacyhs · 27th September 2021, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Number 11 - make annoying Youtube videos about how they are smarter than narcissists....

I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist?

Stacyhs · 27th September 2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Delvo

The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

This is where it gets tricky because he is using the title and, through his claim that he really won the election, it could be argued that he is presenting himself as THE president and not as a former president. This would get into the legalities that a court would have to decide.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2021, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Let's be honest though.

If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us?

As Dr. Bandy Lee said:

Quote:

What attracts people to Trump? What is their animus or driving force?

The reasons are multiple and varied, but in my recent public-service book, Profile of a Nation, I have outlined two major emotional drives: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis. Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence—while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. When such wounded individuals are given positions of power, they arouse similar pathology in the population that creates a “lock and key” relationship.

“Shared psychosis”—which is also called “folie à millions” [“madness for millions”] when occurring at the national level or “induced delusions”—refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person’s symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence—even in previously healthy individuals. The treatment is removal of exposure.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...his-loyalists/

The rest of the interview is very interesting, too.

Darat · 27th September 2021, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist?

Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit.

Stacyhs · 27th September 2021, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit.

How so? I also don't think she is just "claiming" these behaviors are narcissistic as they are also included in the DSM IV-V check list for narcissism.

Stacyhs · 1st October 2021, 07:36 PM

The more of Peril I read, the more it demonstrates that Trump is an emotional five year old in a septuagenarian's body. He really never progressed beyond that emotional age. In the WH, he was basically concerned with two thing:

1) how did it affect his poll numbers and
2) did something make him look weak or strong.

It was all, me, me, me, me.

LondonJohn · 4th October 2021, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.

* Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS

Stacyhs · 4th October 2021, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.

* Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS

Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can.

Bob001 · 10th October 2021, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by LondonJohn

Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon.
....

It's pretty standard across the board to refer to people by the last government title they held. The TV military commentators are introduced as "Gen. So-and-So." An ambassador is always an ambassador. Hillary Clinton is Madame Secretary. We have President Carter, President Bush and President Obama. But they're courtesy titles. They don't carry any weight or authority.

Bob001 · 10th October 2021, 01:37 PM

The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.

Quote:

Trumpism is both a political cult and a manifestation of collective narcissism. Tens of millions of his followers now live in an alternate reality sustained by the Big Lie, an upside-down world in which Donald Trump is still the "real" president of the United States. Many of Trump's followers believe that he should be returned to power by any means available, including terrorism and political violence.

The Trump regime and Republican policies more generally have literally caused trauma — physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual — for millions of Americans, including of course the deaths of at least 700,000 people in the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

Norman Alexander · 10th October 2021, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can.

The same way retired admirals can still be addressed as "Admiral", but they don't have command of a Navy fleet.

Stacyhs · 11th October 2021, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

I totally agree. It's just as Dr. Bandy Lee said: a shared psychosis.

dudalb · 12th October 2021, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy.

https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

I would say political upheavel and violence worse then anything we have seen since the Civil War would not be good for mental health.
Which I am convinced is what would happen in a second Trump adminsitration. if anything the author of this piece is softballing what would happen.

jimbob · 19th October 2021, 12:26 PM

Perfectly normal

FCEN_bVXIAUhaqr.jpg

Norman Alexander · 19th October 2021, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Perfectly normal

Attachment 45553

Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

Crossbow · 19th October 2021, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

Oh! I am sure that they did look it over.

And after they reviewed it, all of them said something like "Sir! This is best condolence message in the entire history of the universe and you were the one who wrote it and only a very stable genius like you could have written such a wonderful statement!".

carlitos · 19th October 2021, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???

This horrible Liz Harrington person puts these things out on Twitter with her name attached. I hope that she's financially set for life, because there ain't no PR or communications job for her in the private sector. Tobacco company flak, maybe.

Norman Alexander · 19th October 2021, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

This horrible Liz Harrington person puts these things out on Twitter with her name attached. I hope that she's financially set for life, because there ain't no PR or communications job for her in the private sector. Tobacco company flak, maybe.

Isn't she violating Twitter rules or something posting a banned user's stuff on their behalf?

Quote:

You can’t circumvent a Twitter suspension by operating, or having someone else operate on your behalf, an account which represents your identity, persona, brand or business persona for a different purpose.

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-an...es/ban-evasion

Stacyhs · 19th October 2021, 06:29 PM

Even in Powell's death, Trump can't help but make it all about himself.

As for his question as to whether he'll be treated thusly by the media, let's just hope we have an answer to that soon. Real soon.

kevbo · 19th October 2021, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Even in Powell's death, Trump can't help but make it all about himself.

As for his question as to whether he'll be treated thusly by the media, let's just hope we have an answer to that soon. Real soon.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits here also.

I never wanted Trump to die while in office, because I didn't want him to be martyred. Now, I could care less if the big city bus of life ran him down. Just sayin'.

I do like the suggestion above/or in another tread of maybe drafting hypothetical obituaries for him, and leaking them to social media. Anything that still brings him pain, brings me joy. I am probably not a nice person anymore.

17th September 2021, 03:34 PM	#1922
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,448	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger Stachyhs is confused about the meanings of the words "principle" and "principal", but is not confused about the events—although it is entirely possible Ziggurat, channeling Kellyanne Conway, is saying "version of events" when he/she means "alternative events". . No, I am not. I used "principle" correctly and not "principal". That was Lurch.http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post13601891 Originally Posted by carlitos At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people. As carlitos noted, Lurch used the word "principal" correctly. You, Stacyhs, used the word "principle" incorrectly.
W.D.Clinger Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,448	Last edited by W.D.Clinger; 17th September 2021 at 03:36 PM. Reason: corrected capitalization of a user name

17th September 2021, 04:08 PM	#1925
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger As carlitos noted, Lurch used the word "principal" correctly. You, Stacyhs, used the word "principle" incorrectly. Yes, which I have acknowledged. My ego is not such that I cannot admit when I'm wrong. Facts is facts. (Yes, I know it's "are".)
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 17th September 2021 at 04:09 PM.

20th September 2021, 02:08 PM	#1930
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"?
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 20th September 2021 at 02:22 PM.

21st September 2021, 07:18 AM	#1935
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 16,091	Originally Posted by Ziggurat ... If Haspel actually thought that [risk of coup], then she's an idiot. Musings from an alternate universe. A universe where a coup attempt didn't subsequently occur.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

27th September 2021, 06:58 AM	#1938
Ladewig I lost an avatar bet. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 28,469	Originally Posted by Stacyhs How detached from reality does a person have to be to send this letter when that person is literally under investigation for "attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia general election"? http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8f824d80bf.jpg I don’t think this should be a rhetorical question that can be passed over. While I cannot claim that his letter a sign of mental illness, I am comfortable saying it is a sign that he should talk to mental health professionals for an evaluation.
	__________________ I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

17th September 2021, 03:12 PM	#1921
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,500	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows. That's one specific conversation from almost 35 years ago. Got anything else?

17th September 2021, 03:52 PM	#1923
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Except he doesn't, as the controversy over Woodward's claimed deathbed confession of William Casey shows. You mean this incident? Quote: CIA Director William Casey’s deathbed scene Woodward claimed in his book “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA 1981-1987” that Casey admitted on his deathbed that he had known about the diversion of Iran arms sale money to the Contras. But Casey’s daughter, Bernadette Casey Smith, claimed that Woodward “never got the deathbed confession,” according to the Houston Chronicle. In addition, Kevin Shipp, a member of Casey’s security detail, asserted in a self-published memoir that none of the agents standing guard over the Casey allowed Woodward into his hospital room at Georgetown University Hospital, and that in any case the former CIA director was not able to talk at the time Woodward cited. In his defense, Woodward quotes William Donnelly, head of CIA administration, who said “Woodward probably found a way to sneak in,” and argues that the guards weren’t there 24/7 at the time. So we have Bob Woodward, 2X Pulitzer Prize winner, vs. Casey's daughter, whose motive would be to protect her father's reputation and wasn't at his bedside 24/7, and a "self-published memoir" by a guy who claimed the guards, who weren't there 24/7, didn't let Woodward in and that Casey couldn't speak at the time. But that isn't true either: Quote: In addition, Kessler reported in his 2003 book "The CIA at War," any assertion that the CIA director “could not speak” at the time Woodward entered his room is mistaken. “When I saw him in the hospital,” Robert Gates, Casey's deputy at the time, told Kessler, “his speech was even more slurred than usual, but if you knew him well, you could make out a few words, enough to get a sense of what he was saying. I briefed him on developments at the agency and the White House." Gates related basically the same version in his own, 1996 memoir, “From the Shadows: The Ultimate Insider's Story of Five Presidents and How They Won the Cold War.” But a number of CIA people, including Casey’s widow Sofia, still cannot bring themselves to believe Woodward’s account, if only because the CIA chief so fiercely advocated sending leakers to jail. Quote: But as both Woodward and Kessler point out, the CIA’s own internal records show that Casey talked with Woodward 43 times, either in person or on the phone, while the reporter was working on “Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA, 1981-87.” Alex, I'll take "Who is more credible?" for a true double jeopardy.

17th September 2021, 04:06 PM	#1924
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by carlitos At your link, Lurch correctly called the people in the room "principals." "Principles" can't issue refutations, because they are abstract concepts, not people. You are absolutely correct. Mea maxima culpa. Brain fart. It happens to us oldies but goodies. Color me Originally Posted by carlitos As for allegations about Trump's mental health from those around him ... I was reminded of these tidbits recently - from his communications directors, Secretary of State, etc. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...50abcb4b02.jpg Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants” —White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh “The White House has become an adult day care center” —Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee “Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth” —former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss. “Less a person than a collection of terrible traits” —Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn. “Someone who “sucks up and ***** down” —former Fox News chief and confidant Roger Ailes. Additionally: Quote: “A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.” “Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.” Tom Barrack, Friend and supporter,: "not only crazy, […] stupid" Gary Cohh, Economic advisor: "an idiot surrounded by clowns" H R McMaster, National security advisor: “An idiot [with the intelligence of] a kindergartener” Sam Nunberg, Advisor: "this idiot" Steve Mnuchin, Treasury Secretary: "an idiot" Reince Preibus, Chief of Staff: "an idiot"

17th September 2021, 04:38 PM	#1926
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,352	Originally Posted by Ziggurat But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not? Because he's on the downhill slide of his four year term with no place to go but retirement. He doesn't have to pander to the petty complaints and false pearl clutching of the filthy Trumptrash who tried to steal our election and betrayed their nation. He said what he needed to and wanted to say to Woodward. He doesn't have to demean his office by humoring the traitors, people who aren't even Americans.

17th September 2021, 04:54 PM	#1927
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Ziggurat But he's unwilling to back it up either. Why not? He has through his spokesman: Quote: In a written statement, Milley’s spokesman, Col. Dave Butler, said Milley acted within his authority as the most senior uniformed adviser to the president and to the secretary of defense. “His calls with the Chinese and others in October and January were in keeping with these duties and responsibilities conveying reassurance in order to maintain strategic stability,” Butler said. “All calls from the chairman to his counterparts, including those reported, are staffed, coordinated and communicated with the Department of Defense and the interagency.” Quote: In the statement Wednesday, Milley’s spokesman said Milley had conferred with the senior officers about nuclear weapons protocols “to remind uniformed leaders in the Pentagon of the long-established and robust procedures in light of media reporting on the subject.” Butler, the spokesman, appeared to be referring to news reports of the Jan. 8 Milley-Pelosi phone call.

17th September 2021, 04:55 PM	#1928
whoanellie Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,083	This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed: https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read.

17th September 2021, 08:37 PM	#1929
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,500	Originally Posted by whoanellie This just happened to come up on my Twitter feed: https://slate.com/culture/2013/03/bo...r-scandal.html It's a take on the accuracy of Woodward's Wired his book about Belushi. It's a very interesting read. Not making excuses for Woodward, but the criticism there is that he gets the facts right, but interprets them in ways that others find misleading: Quote: Wired is an infuriating piece of work. There’s a reason Woodward’s critics consistently come off as hysterical ninnies: He doesn’t make Jonah Lehrer–level mistakes. There’s never a smoking gun like an outright falsehood or a brazen ethical breach. And yet, in the final product, a lot of what Woodward writes comes off as being not quite right—some of it to the point where it can feel quite wrong. There’s no question that he frequently ferrets out information that other reporters don’t. But getting the scoop is only part of the equation. Once you have the facts, you have to present those facts in context and in proportion to other facts in order to accurately reflect reality. It’s here that Woodward fails. Belushi's friends saw him as a funny, smart, talented, lovable guy and they wanted to see him portrayed that way. Woodward focused on the life-long drug addictions that killed him. As a Yale-educated ex-naval officer and son of a state judge, Woodward likely brought his own prejudices and narrow life experience to his subject. Maybe Woodward short-changed Belushi and his friends. But what's most relevant here is that one of his most outspoken critics admits that Woodward gets the facts right.

20th September 2021, 02:15 PM	#1931
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 24,381	Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal?

20th September 2021, 02:22 PM	#1932
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by carlitos Does he get to use the Presidential seal on stationary, or is that a lookalike seal? As a former POTUS, yes.

20th September 2021, 09:38 PM	#1933
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,500	Originally Posted by Stacyhs As a former POTUS, yes. Only for official correspondence, not political or commercial purposes. Quote: A criminal complaint has been filed against Donald Trump’s Bedminster golf club, charging the facility with misusing the presidential seal. Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a watchdog group and frequent critic of the former president, filed the complaint with the U.S. Justice Department after an Instagram photo showed the seal on a tee marker at the golf course. Federal law prohibits the use of the seal to give “a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States,” CREW said in its complaint. Trump lost the Nov. 3 election to Joe Biden. https://www.nj.com/politics/2021/08/...aint-says.html It actually appears that Trump has designed his own seal. https://copyrightlately.com/trump-office-great-seal/

20th September 2021, 10:47 PM	#1934
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Thanks for more detail on the use of the seal, Bob001. As regarding the question from Carlitos, Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states.

27th September 2021, 11:39 AM	#1939
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 10,360	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Trump is entitled to use it as long as Trump’s “'Office of the Former President'continues to recognize that he’s the former president and doesn’t falsely suggest that he’s the current president, its use of the seal shouldn’t run afoul of the law” as your link states. The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President.

27th September 2021, 11:40 AM	#1940
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 40,000	Let's be honest though. If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us?
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

27th September 2021, 11:49 AM	#1941
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Darat Number 11 - make annoying Youtube videos about how they are smarter than narcissists.... I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist?

27th September 2021, 11:54 AM	#1942
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Delvo The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President. This is where it gets tricky because he is using the title and, through his claim that he really won the election, it could be argued that he is presenting himself as THE president and not as a former president. This would get into the legalities that a court would have to decide.

27th September 2021, 12:01 PM	#1943
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Let's be honest though. If Donald Trump is legit mentally ill doesn't it mean that ~40% of the voting population is as well? Where does that put us? As Dr. Bandy Lee said: Quote: What attracts people to Trump? What is their animus or driving force? The reasons are multiple and varied, but in my recent public-service book, Profile of a Nation, I have outlined two major emotional drives: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis. Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence—while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. When such wounded individuals are given positions of power, they arouse similar pathology in the population that creates a “lock and key” relationship. “Shared psychosis”—which is also called “folie à millions” [“madness for millions”] when occurring at the national level or “induced delusions”—refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person’s symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence—even in previously healthy individuals. The treatment is removal of exposure. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...his-loyalists/ The rest of the interview is very interesting, too.

27th September 2021, 01:00 PM	#1944
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,514	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I don't get your point. Do you think the lawyer who made the video is a narcissist? Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

27th September 2021, 01:22 PM	#1945
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Darat Well she portrays many of the behaviours she claims narcissists exhibit. How so? I also don't think she is just "claiming" these behaviors are narcissistic as they are also included in the DSM IV-V check list for narcissism.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 27th September 2021 at 01:26 PM.

1st October 2021, 07:36 PM	#1946
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	The more of Peril I read, the more it demonstrates that Trump is an emotional five year old in a septuagenarian's body. He really never progressed beyond that emotional age. In the WH, he was basically concerned with two thing: 1) how did it affect his poll numbers and 2) did something make him look weak or strong. It was all, me, me, me, me.

4th October 2021, 03:03 PM	#1947
LondonJohn Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19,365	Originally Posted by Delvo The giant box at the top of the letter calls him the President. Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon. * Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS

4th October 2021, 03:50 PM	#1948
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by LondonJohn Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon. * Obv "herself" would/will be applicable in the event of a female POTUS Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can.

10th October 2021, 01:33 PM	#1949
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,500	Originally Posted by LondonJohn Not to send things off on a tangent.... but custom and practice (at least within the past 60 years or so) has it that any former US president a) should be referred to as "President XYZ" and b) is entitled to term himself* "President XYZ". Even Nixon. .... It's pretty standard across the board to refer to people by the last government title they held. The TV military commentators are introduced as "Gen. So-and-So." An ambassador is always an ambassador. Hillary Clinton is Madame Secretary. We have President Carter, President Bush and President Obama. But they're courtesy titles. They don't carry any weight or authority.

10th October 2021, 01:37 PM	#1950
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,500	The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy. Quote: Trumpism is both a political cult and a manifestation of collective narcissism. Tens of millions of his followers now live in an alternate reality sustained by the Big Lie, an upside-down world in which Donald Trump is still the "real" president of the United States. Many of Trump's followers believe that he should be returned to power by any means available, including terrorism and political violence. The Trump regime and Republican policies more generally have literally caused trauma — physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual — for millions of Americans, including of course the deaths of at least 700,000 people in the coronavirus pandemic. https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/

10th October 2021, 04:53 PM	#1951
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,792	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Yep...as long as they don't present themselves as the 'current' president and use the Great Seal "a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, they can. The same way retired admirals can still be addressed as "Admiral", but they don't have command of a Navy fleet.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

11th October 2021, 02:12 AM	#1952
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 25,282	Originally Posted by Bob001 The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy. https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/ I totally agree. It's just as Dr. Bandy Lee said: a shared psychosis.

12th October 2021, 02:50 PM	#1953
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,563	Originally Posted by Bob001 The writer argues that "the Trump effect" has made America crazy. https://www.salon.com/2021/10/10/wha...-nothing-good/ I would say political upheavel and violence worse then anything we have seen since the Civil War would not be good for mental health. Which I am convinced is what would happen in a second Trump adminsitration. if anything the author of this piece is softballing what would happen.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 12th October 2021 at 02:55 PM.

19th October 2021, 12:26 PM	#1954
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,133	Perfectly normal FCEN_bVXIAUhaqr.jpg
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

19th October 2021, 02:19 PM	#1955
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,792	Originally Posted by jimbob Perfectly normal Attachment 45553 Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out???
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

19th October 2021, 02:26 PM	#1956
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,119	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out??? Oh! I am sure that they did look it over. And after they reviewed it, all of them said something like "Sir! This is best condolence message in the entire history of the universe and you were the one who wrote it and only a very stable genius like you could have written such a wonderful statement!".
	__________________ "But Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President." - Judge Chutkan On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.

19th October 2021, 03:40 PM	#1957
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 24,381	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Did none of his "staff" check this before it went out??? This horrible Liz Harrington person puts these things out on Twitter with her name attached. I hope that she's financially set for life, because there ain't no PR or communications job for her in the private sector. Tobacco company flak, maybe.