General UK politics - Page 68

Captain_Swoop · 17th December 2021, 11:08 AM

Boris forced to get rid of the person investigating whether Boris hosted an illegal Christmas party because the person investigating whether Boris had an illegal Christmas party had an illegal Christmas party!

This is a Two Ronnies sketch!

Carrot Flower King · 17th December 2021, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

There was plenty of sensible tactical voting from Labour and Green supporters.

Tories didn't help themselves by dropping in someone from Birmingham who had to be kept away from the press because of his lack of knowledge of the constituency.

Already heard someone say it's not important because by-elections always go against the party in power and it's just a 'protest vote', nothing to do with Boris or his popularity.

I mean to say, there's mid-term blues and then there is one of the largest swings against the Tories ever seen and in one of the safest of safe seats.

And then there is what both Tory and Lib Dem canvassers (pacé various pieces in the Independent and Guardian) reported voters saying in the constituency about how annoyed they are with BlowJob...

But importing a Brummie to Oswestry was never going to down well and hints that Central Office know nothing and just looked at a map. Although that doesn't explain why the local Tories went along with it.

Mojo · 17th December 2021, 12:08 PM

Boris Johnson accepts responsibility for North Shropshire byelection mauling

No he doesn’t:

Quote:

However, Johnson went on to claim that the biggest problem of the last few weeks was that what “people have been hearing is a litany of stuff about politics and politicians and stuff that isn’t about them and things we can do to make life better”.

Mojo · 17th December 2021, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

"The civil servant tasked with investigating claims of a Christmas party at Downing Street last year held his own office party the day before.
Simon Case, the cabinet secretary, attended a Christmas party with a team of his officials on December 17 last year."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...arty-s3c9zxl0t

Quote:

Both Johnson and Tory chair Oliver Dowden have said they were sure Case’s investigation would find no wrongdoing.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...080842de5fbf87

Captain_Swoop · 17th December 2021, 05:06 PM

Simon Case has 'stepped aside' from the investigation.
Senior civil servant Sue Gray has taken over.
Apparently No 10 staff have already been interviewed as part of the investigation
What does Sue Gray do now? Start again? Or use evidence which might now seem tainted by being gathered by Case?

Case didn't step aside from the investigation when he knew he was compromised, he stepped aside when we knew.

GlennB · 17th December 2021, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Simon Case has 'stepped aside' from the investigation.
Senior civil servant Sue Gray has taken over.
Apparently No 10 staff have already been interviewed as part of the investigation
What does Sue Gray do now? Start again? Or use evidence which might now seem tainted by being gathered by Case?

Case didn't step aside from the investigation when he knew he was compromised, he stepped aside when we knew.

We need to investigate Sue Gray first though, in case she had a party. MrsB and I would like to volunteer as we definitely didn't have a party at Xmas last year, though you might want to investigate that.

Dragon · 18th December 2021, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Boris forced to get rid of the person investigating whether Boris hosted an illegal Christmas party because the person investigating whether Boris had an illegal Christmas party had an illegal Christmas party!

This is a Two Ronnies sketch!

More like The Thick of It I think. It's becoming very hard to satirise Johnson and his clown car of a government.

Vixen · 18th December 2021, 04:22 AM

When Boris Johnson announced that he, too, was 'furious' and that Simon Case would investigate, I think the whole length and breadth of the UK knew in that instance that Case was also 'making whoopee' at a Christmas party.

Nobody at all is surprised

he has 'recused himself'.

Darat · 18th December 2021, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Boris Johnson accepts responsibility for North Shropshire byelection mauling

No he doesn’t:

How he must lament that he can longer pull out a straight banana!

Surely the perfidious French are up to something that he can point to whilst he runs away?

Carrot Flower King · 18th December 2021, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

How he must lament that he can longer pull out a straight banana!

Surely the perfidious French are up to something that he can point to whilst he runs away?

Imposing travel restrictions which mean that this weekend's round of Heineken Cup matches are disrupted so none of the French teams can be beaten by plucky Brits or Irishies...

It's all so clear when you look.

Didn't save Cardiff from getting stuffed by Quins though.

Captain_Swoop · 18th December 2021, 12:53 PM

Mail On Sunday tweeted
@MoS_Politics
EXCLUSIVE: Brexit Minister Lord Frost has resigned from Boris Johnson’s Cabinet over the ‘political direction of his Government’. Full details in tomorrow’s Mail on Sunday.

catsmate · 18th December 2021, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Mail On Sunday tweeted
@MoS_Politics
EXCLUSIVE: Brexit Minister Lord Frost has resigned from Boris Johnson’s Cabinet over the ‘political direction of his Government’. Full details in tomorrow’s Mail on Sunday.

Oh look, a swimming rat....

The Don · 18th December 2021, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Oh look, a swimming rat....

Only because Boris Johnson is insufficiently cavalier over Covid and won't allow multimillionaires to avoid any tax increases.

Not a "good guy", more like an even worse guy.

catsmate · 18th December 2021, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

Only because Boris Johnson is insufficiently cavalier over Covid and won't allow multimillionaires to avoid any tax increases.

Not a "good guy", more like an even worse guy.

Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"?

The Don · 18th December 2021, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"?

As I said upthread, any positive impression of Ruth Davidson, may just be down to a lack of scrutiny.

There may be one or two backbenchers who have slipped through the net.

zooterkin · 18th December 2021, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"?

Rory Stewart was, though he's now independent.

Vixen · 18th December 2021, 04:30 PM

So Frost claims to have quit because:

Quote:

"Sources said that Lord Frost's bombshell has caused 'panic' inside No 10. The Government source said: 'Lord Frost has been among the strongest advocates inside the Cabinet for keeping the country open and for avoiding further legislative control measures to deal with the pandemic. He believes that vaccine passports are an inappropriate measure on principle."

DM

Downloading a vaccine passport is an extremely simple measure, no difficulty to it at all.

IMV the real reason Frost has quit is because of the sheer stress of dealing with Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocols, not to mention the fishing rights.

Come the New Year: Chaos comes into effect.

He's got his knighthood, handsome pension. He's wants to put his feet up.

Garrison · 19th December 2021, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

So Frost claims to have quit because:

DM

Downloading a vaccine passport is an extremely simple measure, no difficulty to it at all.

IMV the real reason Frost has quit is because of the sheer stress of dealing with Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocols, not to mention the fishing rights.

Come the New Year: Chaos comes into effect.

He's got his knighthood, handsome pension. He's wants to put his feet up.

I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in our rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point.

Darat · 19th December 2021, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Garrison

I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in out rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point.

Not reading the agreement negotiated apparently by him.....

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 04:02 AM

Brexit minister Lord Frost has resigned from the UK government over "concerns about the current direction of travel".
In a letter to Boris Johnson, the peer, who led Brexit negotiations, said he hoped the PM would "not be tempted" by "coercive measures" to tackle Covid.

Health Secretary Sajid Javid said Lord Frost was an "outstanding public servant", telling the BBC's Andrew Marr programme that while he disagreed with his remarks, the minister had "resigned out of principle... and we have to respect that".

The Mail on Sunday, which first reported the news, said he handed in his resignation a week ago, partly in disagreement with Covid curbs.
But in his letter to the prime minister, Lord Frost said now the arrangement to exit in January had been made public, he would leave with "immediate effect".
He wrote that Mr Johnson had been "an outstanding leader" during turbulence over Brexit, and the pair had a "close common understanding" on their aims in that area.

But after saying "Brexit is now secure", he added: "You know my concerns about the current direction of travel.
"I hope we will move as fast as possible to where we need to get to: a lightly regulated, low-tax, entrepreneurial economy, at the cutting edge of modern science and economic change."

Lord Frost moved on to his concerns over the government's handling of the virus, saying the country needed to "learn to live with Covid".

"I know that is your instinct too, you took a brave decision in July, against considerable opposition, to open up the country again.
Sadly it did not prove to be irreversible, as I wished, and believe you did too.
I hope we can get back on track soon and not be tempted by the kind of coercive measures we have seen elsewhere."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59714241

Darat · 19th December 2021, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

...snip...

"I hope we will move as fast as possible to where we need to get to: a lightly regulated, low-tax, entrepreneurial economy, at the cutting edge of modern science and economic change."

....snip...

He can hopefully grab a few consultancies with the Chinese, after all he clearly wants us to become like China...

Carrot Flower King · 19th December 2021, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Garrison

I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in our rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point.

Just like all those play tough rebel wannabees, voting against any further Covid restrictions while knowing that Labour would support BlowJob, but nary a squeak about any of those other issues you mention.

Freedom...To take back-handers without any retribution...To pour **** into rivers...To drive the NHS into the ground so they can sell it off to their mates...To make spurious comparisons to both the Nazis and Stalin at the same time...To stick a "y" in your surname instead of "i" to make it look posher...

But wearing a mask, having a small needle in your arm, washing your hands and not having a Christmas party...Oh, noes, we cannot cope with that!

Vixen · 19th December 2021, 06:17 AM

The problem IMV is with the FPTP system, which I used to think was good. However, the two-party/three-party system doesn't really work, because with an 80-seat majority, the Opposition is ineffective and with the weight of the mass media right-wing owned press against it and in charge of a powerful hegemony that can exhort us - like the comic DAILY EXPRESS - to 'HAVE FAITH IN BORIS'.

The system in Northern Europe, which I had hitherto akinned to weakness, is actually much more democratic and powerful. For example, in Finland, we have an SDP majority party in power, with a Green Foreign Minister and a Swedish-Speaking Party Justice Minister, a Centre Party Home Secretary and a Left Party Education Minister. The Opposition consists of the Conservatives (Kokomus) and the Basic Finns, Perusuomalaiset (= similar to UKIP but with a strong belief in the welfare state). IMV this works well.

It would be great if the UK electoral system gave people like Caroline Lucas of the Greens a chance. Well, the Lib-Dem/Conservative Alliance with Cameron and Clegg was a nightmare but it could work with a broad alliance of the best persons instead of this dull uninspiring two-party fiasco.

Carrot Flower King · 19th December 2021, 11:21 AM

Hang on a mo!

If the men and women in grey suits do hand BlowJob the revolver and the glass of Scotch, triggering a leadership contest, who will be left holding the fort?

Lemme see now, who is the Officially Designated Deputy PM? **** me, it's Dominic "How clueless am I?" Raaaaaaaaaaaaaab.

I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I?

Hercules Rockefeller · 19th December 2021, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I?

The band or the state?

zooterkin · 19th December 2021, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Hang on a mo!

If the men and women in grey suits do hand BlowJob the revolver and the glass of Scotch, triggering a leadership contest, who will be left holding the fort?

Lemme see now, who is the Officially Designated Deputy PM? **** me, it's Dominic "How clueless am I?" Raaaaaaaaaaaaaab.

I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I?

Is that how it works? Doesn't the current leader stay until their replacement is elected? (Given how he somehow avoided any negative mention in Cummings' various revelations, Gove would appear to be in with a chance.)

Lothian · 19th December 2021, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Is that how it works? Doesn't the current leader stay until their replacement is elected? (Given how he somehow avoided any negative mention in Cummings' various revelations, Gove would appear to be in with a chance.)

Gove has been very very quiet recently.

I suspect there is a reason he is keeping out of the news.

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 01:52 PM

NEW: Downing Street staff and Boris Johnson pictured drinking wine in the No 10 garden last May when the rest of the country was limited to meeting just one other person socially outdoors.

Picture in link

https://theguardian.com/politics/202...en-in-may-2020

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 01:54 PM

Remember those two women that got arrested for sitting on a bench drinking their coffees?

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 02:31 PM

Don’t forget that May 2020 (when the picture of the latest Johnson piss up was taken) was a few weeks AFTER cummings trip for his eye test.
They really do think the rules don’t apply to them.

Darat · 19th December 2021, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Don’t forget that May 2020 (when the picture of the latest Johnson piss up was taken) was a few weeks AFTER cummings trip for his eye test.
They really do ~~think~~ know the rules don’t apply to them.

FTFY

Darat · 19th December 2021, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Gove has been very very quiet recently.

I suspect there is a reason he is keeping out of the news.

Presumably, he is out and about looking for his precious.

Darat · 19th December 2021, 02:48 PM

Deleted wrong thread!

Wudang · 19th December 2021, 02:49 PM

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/st...03437977792517

Quote:

The Financial Times says that while he was in California this week Rishi Sunak failed to attend a roundtable discussion with the UK hospitality sector. Treasury insiders said - and I kid you not - that the meeting clashed with a scheduled call with *US healthcare bosses*.

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Wudang

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/st...03437977792517

He, along with Boris skipped todays Cobra meeting too.

Captain_Swoop · 19th December 2021, 04:12 PM

Why would Boris call a Cobra meeting then not turn up? it's not like it wasn't at Downing Street?

Was he drunk or has he ****** off somewhere for the weekend?

Maybe they should have served wine and cheese.

Vixen · 19th December 2021, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

He, along with Boris skipped todays Cobra meeting too.

Stephen Baker was leading it. I wonder if he is going to throw himself into the leadership race, with Truss out of the way doing her trade deals and lumbered with Frost's old job.

P.J. Denyer · 20th December 2021, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

He can hopefully grab a few consultancies with the Chinese, after all he clearly wants us to become like China...

And if things get tight there's always the three hundred & whatever quid a day for showing up at the Lords. Gotta have dinner somewhere, right? May as well be the subsidised restaurant at the place where they pay you for signing in.

Tye only thing he's resigned from is the job he was about to face responsibility for when his 'efforts' hit the fan.

P.J. Denyer · 20th December 2021, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Why would Boris call a Cobra meeting then not turn up? it's not like it wasn't at Downing Street?

Was he drunk or has he ****** off somewhere for the weekend?

Maybe they should have served wine and cheese.

Can the country afford enough wine to bribe Johnson to do his bloody job?

Darat · 20th December 2021, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

And if things get tight there's always the three hundred & whatever quid a day for showing up at the Lords. Gotta have dinner somewhere, right? May as well be the subsidised restaurant at the place where they pay you for signing in.

Tye only thing he's resigned from is the job he was about to face responsibility for when his 'efforts' hit the fan.

He is now free to really lay into the idiots who negotiated this terrible deal with the EU!

17th December 2021, 12:08 PM	#2683
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,951	Boris Johnson accepts responsibility for North Shropshire byelection mauling No he doesn’t: Quote: However, Johnson went on to claim that the biggest problem of the last few weeks was that what “people have been hearing is a litany of stuff about politics and politicians and stuff that isn’t about them and things we can do to make life better”.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

17th December 2021, 12:10 PM	#2684
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 35,951	Originally Posted by Nessie "The civil servant tasked with investigating claims of a Christmas party at Downing Street last year held his own office party the day before. Simon Case, the cabinet secretary, attended a Christmas party with a team of his officials on December 17 last year." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...arty-s3c9zxl0t Quote: Both Johnson and Tory chair Oliver Dowden have said they were sure Case’s investigation would find no wrongdoing. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...080842de5fbf87
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

17th December 2021, 05:06 PM	#2685
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Simon Case has 'stepped aside' from the investigation. Senior civil servant Sue Gray has taken over. Apparently No 10 staff have already been interviewed as part of the investigation What does Sue Gray do now? Start again? Or use evidence which might now seem tainted by being gathered by Case? Case didn't step aside from the investigation when he knew he was compromised, he stepped aside when we knew.
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 17th December 2021 at 05:09 PM.

17th December 2021, 05:36 PM	#2686
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 28,002	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Simon Case has 'stepped aside' from the investigation. Senior civil servant Sue Gray has taken over. Apparently No 10 staff have already been interviewed as part of the investigation What does Sue Gray do now? Start again? Or use evidence which might now seem tainted by being gathered by Case? Case didn't step aside from the investigation when he knew he was compromised, he stepped aside when we knew. We need to investigate Sue Gray first though, in case she had a party. MrsB and I would like to volunteer as we definitely didn't have a party at Xmas last year, though you might want to investigate that.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut Last edited by GlennB; 17th December 2021 at 05:45 PM.

18th December 2021, 01:50 AM	#2687
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,610	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Boris forced to get rid of the person investigating whether Boris hosted an illegal Christmas party because the person investigating whether Boris had an illegal Christmas party had an illegal Christmas party! This is a Two Ronnies sketch! More like The Thick of It I think. It's becoming very hard to satirise Johnson and his clown car of a government.
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,610	__________________ "We must favour verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth." Richard Dawkins - The Enemies of Reason

17th December 2021, 11:08 AM	#2681
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Boris forced to get rid of the person investigating whether Boris hosted an illegal Christmas party because the person investigating whether Boris had an illegal Christmas party had an illegal Christmas party! This is a Two Ronnies sketch!

17th December 2021, 11:10 AM	#2682
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,496	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop There was plenty of sensible tactical voting from Labour and Green supporters. Tories didn't help themselves by dropping in someone from Birmingham who had to be kept away from the press because of his lack of knowledge of the constituency. Already heard someone say it's not important because by-elections always go against the party in power and it's just a 'protest vote', nothing to do with Boris or his popularity. I mean to say, there's mid-term blues and then there is one of the largest swings against the Tories ever seen and in one of the safest of safe seats. And then there is what both Tory and Lib Dem canvassers (pacé various pieces in the Independent and Guardian) reported voters saying in the constituency about how annoyed they are with BlowJob... But importing a Brummie to Oswestry was never going to down well and hints that Central Office know nothing and just looked at a map. Although that doesn't explain why the local Tories went along with it.

18th December 2021, 04:22 AM	#2688
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,175	When Boris Johnson announced that he, too, was 'furious' and that Simon Case would investigate, I think the whole length and breadth of the UK knew in that instance that Case was also 'making whoopee' at a Christmas party. Nobody at all is surprised ~~there are pictures of Case doing a knees up Muvver Brown with Coffey and Gove and a Let's Limbo Together with Bill and Bob, not to mention dancing on the table smashing dinner plates~~ he has 'recused himself'.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

18th December 2021, 07:49 AM	#2689
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Originally Posted by Mojo Boris Johnson accepts responsibility for North Shropshire byelection mauling No he doesn’t: How he must lament that he can longer pull out a straight banana! Surely the perfidious French are up to something that he can point to whilst he runs away?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

18th December 2021, 11:17 AM	#2690
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,496	Originally Posted by Darat How he must lament that he can longer pull out a straight banana! *Surely the perfidious French are up to something that he can point to whilst he runs away*? Imposing travel restrictions which mean that this weekend's round of Heineken Cup matches are disrupted so none of the French teams can be beaten by plucky Brits or Irishies... It's all so clear when you look. Didn't save Cardiff from getting stuffed by Quins though.

18th December 2021, 12:53 PM	#2691
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Mail On Sunday tweeted @MoS_Politics EXCLUSIVE: Brexit Minister Lord Frost has resigned from Boris Johnson’s Cabinet over the ‘political direction of his Government’. Full details in tomorrow’s Mail on Sunday.

18th December 2021, 01:04 PM	#2692
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,071	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Mail On Sunday tweeted @MoS_Politics EXCLUSIVE: Brexit Minister Lord Frost has resigned from Boris Johnson’s Cabinet over the ‘political direction of his Government’. Full details in tomorrow’s Mail on Sunday. Oh look, a swimming rat....
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th December 2021, 02:22 PM	#2693
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,424	Originally Posted by catsmate Oh look, a swimming rat.... Only because Boris Johnson is insufficiently cavalier over Covid and won't allow multimillionaires to avoid any tax increases. Not a "good guy", more like an even worse guy.

18th December 2021, 02:26 PM	#2694
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,071	Originally Posted by The Don Only because Boris Johnson is insufficiently cavalier over Covid and won't allow multimillionaires to avoid any tax increases. Not a "good guy", more like an even worse guy. Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

18th December 2021, 02:40 PM	#2695
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 34,424	Originally Posted by catsmate Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"? As I said upthread, any positive impression of Ruth Davidson, may just be down to a lack of scrutiny. There may be one or two backbenchers who have slipped through the net.

18th December 2021, 02:53 PM	#2696
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 52,406	Originally Posted by catsmate Can anyone with the UK conservative , except perhaps Ruth Davidson, be considered reasonably" good"? Rory Stewart was, though he's now independent.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

18th December 2021, 04:30 PM	#2697
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,175	So Frost claims to have quit because: Quote: "Sources said that Lord Frost's bombshell has caused 'panic' inside No 10. The Government source said: 'Lord Frost has been among the strongest advocates inside the Cabinet for keeping the country open and for avoiding further legislative control measures to deal with the pandemic. He believes that vaccine passports are an inappropriate measure on principle." DM Downloading a vaccine passport is an extremely simple measure, no difficulty to it at all. IMV the real reason Frost has quit is because of the sheer stress of dealing with Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocols, not to mention the fishing rights. Come the New Year: Chaos comes into effect. He's got his knighthood, handsome pension. He's wants to put his feet up.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

19th December 2021, 03:47 AM	#2698
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,795	Originally Posted by Vixen So Frost claims to have quit because: DM Downloading a vaccine passport is an extremely simple measure, no difficulty to it at all. IMV the real reason Frost has quit is because of the sheer stress of dealing with Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocols, not to mention the fishing rights. Come the New Year: Chaos comes into effect. He's got his knighthood, handsome pension. He's wants to put his feet up. I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in our rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX Last edited by Garrison; 19th December 2021 at 05:09 AM.

19th December 2021, 03:53 AM	#2699
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Originally Posted by Garrison I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in out rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point. Not reading the agreement negotiated apparently by him.....
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th December 2021, 04:02 AM	#2700
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Brexit minister Lord Frost has resigned from the UK government over "concerns about the current direction of travel". In a letter to Boris Johnson, the peer, who led Brexit negotiations, said he hoped the PM would "not be tempted" by "coercive measures" to tackle Covid. Health Secretary Sajid Javid said Lord Frost was an "outstanding public servant", telling the BBC's Andrew Marr programme that while he disagreed with his remarks, the minister had "resigned out of principle... and we have to respect that". The Mail on Sunday, which first reported the news, said he handed in his resignation a week ago, partly in disagreement with Covid curbs. But in his letter to the prime minister, Lord Frost said now the arrangement to exit in January had been made public, he would leave with "immediate effect". He wrote that Mr Johnson had been "an outstanding leader" during turbulence over Brexit, and the pair had a "close common understanding" on their aims in that area. But after saying "Brexit is now secure", he added: "You know my concerns about the current direction of travel. "I hope we will move as fast as possible to where we need to get to: a lightly regulated, low-tax, entrepreneurial economy, at the cutting edge of modern science and economic change." Lord Frost moved on to his concerns over the government's handling of the virus, saying the country needed to "learn to live with Covid". "I know that is your instinct too, you took a brave decision in July, against considerable opposition, to open up the country again. Sadly it did not prove to be irreversible, as I wished, and believe you did too. I hope we can get back on track soon and not be tempted by the kind of coercive measures we have seen elsewhere." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59714241

19th December 2021, 04:15 AM	#2701
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop ...snip... "I hope we will move as fast as possible to where we need to get to: a lightly regulated, low-tax, entrepreneurial economy, at the cutting edge of modern science and economic change." ....snip... He can hopefully grab a few consultancies with the Chinese, after all he clearly wants us to become like China...
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

19th December 2021, 05:34 AM	#2702
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,496	Originally Posted by Garrison I mean this the government action he finds unacceptable? Not corruption, second jobs, dumping sewage in our rivers, no trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed, that's his breaking point. Just like all those play tough rebel wannabees, voting against any further Covid restrictions while knowing that Labour would support BlowJob, but nary a squeak about any of those other issues you mention. Freedom...To take back-handers without any retribution...To pour **** into rivers...To drive the NHS into the ground so they can sell it off to their mates...To make spurious comparisons to both the Nazis and Stalin at the same time...To stick a "y" in your surname instead of "i" to make it look posher... But wearing a mask, having a small needle in your arm, washing your hands and not having a Christmas party...Oh, noes, we cannot cope with that!
	Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 19th December 2021 at 05:35 AM. Reason: Added snark

19th December 2021, 06:17 AM	#2703
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,175	The problem IMV is with the FPTP system, which I used to think was good. However, the two-party/three-party system doesn't really work, because with an 80-seat majority, the Opposition is ineffective and with the weight of the mass media right-wing owned press against it and in charge of a powerful hegemony that can exhort us - like the comic DAILY EXPRESS - to 'HAVE FAITH IN BORIS'. The system in Northern Europe, which I had hitherto akinned to weakness, is actually much more democratic and powerful. For example, in Finland, we have an SDP majority party in power, with a Green Foreign Minister and a Swedish-Speaking Party Justice Minister, a Centre Party Home Secretary and a Left Party Education Minister. The Opposition consists of the Conservatives (Kokomus) and the Basic Finns, Perusuomalaiset (= similar to UKIP but with a strong belief in the welfare state). IMV this works well. It would be great if the UK electoral system gave people like Caroline Lucas of the Greens a chance. Well, the Lib-Dem/Conservative Alliance with Cameron and Clegg was a nightmare but it could work with a broad alliance of the best persons instead of this dull uninspiring two-party fiasco.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

19th December 2021, 11:21 AM	#2704
Carrot Flower King Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 2,496	Hang on a mo! If the men and women in grey suits do hand BlowJob the revolver and the glass of Scotch, triggering a leadership contest, who will be left holding the fort? Lemme see now, who is the Officially Designated Deputy PM? **** me, it's Dominic "How clueless am I?" Raaaaaaaaaaaaaab. I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I?

19th December 2021, 12:25 PM	#2705
Hercules Rockefeller Woof! Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 3,880	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I? The band or the state?
	__________________ Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra

19th December 2021, 12:51 PM	#2706
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 52,406	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Hang on a mo! If the men and women in grey suits do hand BlowJob the revolver and the glass of Scotch, triggering a leadership contest, who will be left holding the fort? Lemme see now, who is the Officially Designated Deputy PM? **** me, it's Dominic "How clueless am I?" Raaaaaaaaaaaaaab. I'm going to wake up and find that I'm not in Kansas anymore, aren't I? Is that how it works? Doesn't the current leader stay until their replacement is elected? (Given how he somehow avoided any negative mention in Cummings' various revelations, Gove would appear to be in with a chance.)
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

19th December 2021, 01:27 PM	#2707
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 17,511	Originally Posted by zooterkin Is that how it works? Doesn't the current leader stay until their replacement is elected? (Given how he somehow avoided any negative mention in Cummings' various revelations, Gove would appear to be in with a chance.) Gove has been very very quiet recently. I suspect there is a reason he is keeping out of the news.

19th December 2021, 01:52 PM	#2708
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	NEW: Downing Street staff and Boris Johnson pictured drinking wine in the No 10 garden last May when the rest of the country was limited to meeting just one other person socially outdoors. Picture in link https://theguardian.com/politics/202...en-in-may-2020

19th December 2021, 01:54 PM	#2709
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Remember those two women that got arrested for sitting on a bench drinking their coffees?

19th December 2021, 02:31 PM	#2710
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Don’t forget that May 2020 (when the picture of the latest Johnson piss up was taken) was a few weeks AFTER cummings trip for his eye test. They really do think the rules don’t apply to them.

19th December 2021, 02:43 PM	#2711
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Don’t forget that May 2020 (when the picture of the latest Johnson piss up was taken) was a few weeks AFTER cummings trip for his eye test. They really do ~~think~~ know the rules don’t apply to them. FTFY
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19th December 2021, 02:44 PM	#2712
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Originally Posted by Lothian Gove has been very very quiet recently. I suspect there is a reason he is keeping out of the news. Presumably, he is out and about looking for his precious.
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19th December 2021, 02:48 PM	#2713
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 102,476	Deleted wrong thread!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 19th December 2021 at 02:50 PM.

19th December 2021, 02:49 PM	#2714
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 14,551	https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/st...03437977792517 Quote: The Financial Times says that while he was in California this week Rishi Sunak failed to attend a roundtable discussion with the UK hospitality sector. Treasury insiders said - and I kid you not - that the meeting clashed with a scheduled call with US healthcare bosses.
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

19th December 2021, 03:10 PM	#2715
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 42,813	Originally Posted by Wudang https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/st...03437977792517 He, along with Boris skipped todays Cobra meeting too.