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Tags 2022 elections , Georgia politics , Kandiss Taylor

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Old 19th February 2022, 01:08 PM   #41
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Wasn't that the name of a Warren Zevon song?
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Old 19th February 2022, 01:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
They forget, or likely never knew, that George Washington personally led troops armed under the provisions of the Second Amendment to put down a rebellion by farmers who were refusing to pay taxes.

But you have to remember that they approve of the right kind of tyranny. Probably the kind with Jesus, guns, and babies.
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Old 19th February 2022, 01:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
But you have to remember that they approve of the right kind of tyranny. Probably the kind with Jesus, guns, and babies.
Especially if it's led by a pathological liar, serial adulterer, racist, bigoted sociopath. You know, the kind of guy Jesus would choose.
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Old 19th February 2022, 01:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I saw video the other night of a woman at a school board meeting literally screaming at the board members -- it was a budget hearing -- how about family budgets? To treat the long term damage their kids will suffer from having had to wear face masks in the classroom. Other attendees were cheering her on.

They became so unruly they finally had to be escorted out by police. Fortunately, none of them were prepared to exercise their second amendment rights, though I'm sure most believed the school board was acting 'tyrannically.'
Not to derail, but her source might be a little left than you think. I heard the information about developmental problems due to young children wearing masks in school from...NPR.

I have NPR on most of the time when I'm driving and a few days ago they had a story about this. Apparently, masks hide a lot of visual cues that children need for learning and social development.
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Old 19th February 2022, 01:52 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Wasn't that the name of a Warren Zevon song?
Hmmm...it would almost work...

I went home with a waitress
And I took a little risk
Send Jesus Guns and Babies
Dad get me out of this
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Old 19th February 2022, 02:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Not to derail, but her source might be a little left than you think. I heard the information about developmental problems due to young children wearing masks in school from...NPR.

I have NPR on most of the time when I'm driving and a few days ago they had a story about this. Apparently, masks hide a lot of visual cues that children need for learning and social development.
COVID renders them dead, and that point fairly moot.
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Old 19th February 2022, 02:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Wasn't that the name of a Warren Zevon song?
Lawyers, guns and money. That is what Republican politicians bring to today's contests.
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Old 19th February 2022, 03:45 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, just no. The idea that the Founding Fathers wanted people armed to resist a central government is laughable.
Against whom did they want to have the militias armed?
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Old 19th February 2022, 04:09 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Against whom did they want to have the militias armed?
Native Americans, not to mention the Brits to the north and Spanish to the south.
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Old 19th February 2022, 04:17 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Against whom did they want to have the militias armed?
The kind of 'militias' the prepper movement puts together, to take a modern case. The militias of the time, being "well regulated" and an important adjunct to a Continental Army, would be presumed to be supportive of and loyal to the Republic. Any rabble who might raise arms against Her, or in numbers refuse their legal obligations such as paying taxes, could be the sort the then "well regulated militia" would be arrayed against.

While the Founders could envisage the eventuality for such as today's traitorous GOP to be **** out of the bowels of the nation's deplorables, and potentially needing a corrective administered by patriotic Americans, surely this could not be the sole purpose of an armed, "well regulated militia". Such a narrow remit of action against the State only would imply the 2A to be almost a suicide clause.
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Old 19th February 2022, 04:43 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Against whom did they want to have the militias armed?
The native people. The French who were still on the frontier. To really understand the 2nd Amendment you have to understand the Roman early Republican period and how much the Founding Fathers saw themselves as creating the second Roman Republic. It would be difficult to overstate the impact of having an education rooted in the Roman classical period on our Founding Fathers.

The 2nd Amendment is the only one of the first ten Amendments that speaks to the duty a citizen has to the state. In the Roman Republic, a citizen owned his own military equipment and in time of war, reported for duty with his gear. That's the vision of the Founders when writing the 2nd Amendment.

Our Founding Fathers were keenly aware of the impact of a professional, full time army on the end of the Roman Republic. The Founding Fathers knew that the young country needed an army but they didn't want a standing army. So, they wanted citizens to keep arms and then be formed into a "Well regulated militia" when needed.
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Old 19th February 2022, 04:47 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The native people. The French who were still on the frontier. To really understand the 2nd Amendment you have to understand the Roman early Republican period and how much the Founding Fathers saw themselves as creating the second Roman Republic. It would be difficult to overstate the impact of having an education rooted in the Roman classical period on our Founding Fathers.

The 2nd Amendment is the only one of the first ten Amendments that speaks to the duty a citizen has to the state. In the Roman Republic, a citizen owned his own military equipment and in time of war, reported for duty with his gear. That's the vision of the Founders when writing the 2nd Amendment.

Our Founding Fathers were keenly aware of the impact of a professional, full time army on the end of the Roman Republic. The Founding Fathers knew that the young country needed an army but they didn't want a standing army. So, they wanted citizens to keep arms and then be formed into a "Well regulated militia" when needed.
They certainly could have worded it better and made their intentions clearer.
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Old 19th February 2022, 05:18 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The concept of resistance to tyranny has always been part of the 2A landscape. Like...since the beginning.
The people who argue for this almost exclusively turn a blind eye to actual tyranny such as police killing back Americans in absurdly high numbers.
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Old 19th February 2022, 05:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Against whom did they want to have the militias armed?
My understanding is that the founding fathers considers a large standing army to represent a direct threat to freedom and that state run militia were thought of as an alternative to the large federally run army that they feared. The militia, therefor, would do all or nearly all the things a standing army would normally do.

Again, though. In today's context how many of the "gun rights" people actually support radically downsizing the US military?
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Old 19th February 2022, 05:33 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
The people who argue for this almost exclusively turn a blind eye to actual tyranny such as police killing back Americans in absurdly high numbers.
It goes without saying, I'd have thought, that the definition of tyranny was always equivocal, or the amendment would have excused the mass assassination of slaveowners from the start, and even if we manage to squeak out of that, excuses of excluded groups diminish after emancipation. It's not surprising that the Black Panthers are considerable contributors to the revival of attention to the amendment. One might consider it generous of them to have stuck to the literal part and not taken the interpretation as far as some right wingers have been doing.
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Old 19th February 2022, 06:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Native Americans, not to mention the Brits to the north and Spanish to the south.
Okay, the latter two examples don't undermine the idea that militias were intended as a safeguard against monarchical tyranny.
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Old 19th February 2022, 06:38 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The concept of resistance to tyranny has always been part of the 2A landscape. Like...since the beginning.
And democracy IS tyranny when our side doesn't win!
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Old 19th February 2022, 07:01 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
...The 2nd Amendment is the only one of the first ten Amendments that speaks to the duty a citizen has to the state. In the Roman Republic, a citizen owned his own military equipment and in time of war, reported for duty with his gear. That's the vision of the Founders when writing the 2nd Amendment...
Extremely well put. I'm sure that's exactly the way the courts viewed the second amendment for decades.

Originally Posted by shemp View Post
They certainly could have worded it better and made their intentions clearer.
That's actually a frequent criticism by Constitutional scholars.

If you've been around a while you know that the emphasis on people arming themselves was an outgrowth of the crime wave of the 1960s-1980s. When I first joined this forum there were several 'gun threads' going on. The pro-gun people always mentioned crime. One post I remember from a pro-NRA poster was -- he wrote this any number of times -- you and your family are accosted in the street by thugs. Without a handgun what would you do? Cower and turn over your valuables? Try not to watch as they assault your wife or daughter? Or, newyorkguy, would you run away, leaving your family to the mercy of the thugs?

Now it's suddenly all about resisting tyranny. But who gets to define 'tyranny.'

Them?
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Old 19th February 2022, 07:22 PM   #59
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The problem with strict 'originialist' interpretation of the Constitution is that times change, conditions change, threats change, technologies change. The Founding Fathers could no more envisage our times than we can envisage 300 years from now. What we can interpret is the spirit of their vision.
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Old 19th February 2022, 07:47 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The problem with strict 'originialist' interpretation of the Constitution is that times change, conditions change, threats change, technologies change. The Founding Fathers could no more envisage our times than we can envisage 300 years from now. What we can interpret is the spirit of their vision.
The Constitution is very clear that when it comes to apportioning Congressional representation the Borg all together only count as one person.
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Old 19th February 2022, 08:13 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm just imagining what a girls' night out with Kandiss, Lauren, and Marjorie would be like.
Kind of like Dick Cheney hunting quail.
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Old 19th February 2022, 08:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Kind of like Dick Cheney hunting quail.
Dan?
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Old 20th February 2022, 02:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
The kind of 'militias' the prepper movement puts together, to take a modern case. The militias of the time, being "well regulated" and an important adjunct to a Continental Army, would be presumed to be supportive of and loyal to the Republic. Any rabble who might raise arms against Her, or in numbers refuse their legal obligations such as paying taxes, could be the sort the then "well regulated militia" would be arrayed against.

While the Founders could envisage the eventuality for such as today's traitorous GOP to be **** out of the bowels of the nation's deplorables, and potentially needing a corrective administered by patriotic Americans, surely this could not be the sole purpose of an armed, "well regulated militia". Such a narrow remit of action against the State only would imply the 2A to be almost a suicide clause.
Historically the Miltias were not very well organized and tended to be useless on the battlefield without a lot of training by the Regulars. Huge problem in the early days of the Civil war for both sides.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 12:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
When is Jesus going to gun the babies?
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Old 22nd February 2022, 12:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
When is Jesus going to gun the babies?
Tonight on Tucker Carlson's show.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 02:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Tonight on Tucker Carlson's show.
Or Alex Jones. People don't gun babies, Jesus does!
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11 and rule 12.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 06:21 PM   #67
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JESUS GUNS BABIES

Does Jesus shoot them out of a cannon cuz I'd pay to see that?
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Old 22nd February 2022, 07:53 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The concept of resistance to tyranny has always been part of the 2A landscape. Like...since the beginning.
Well, noooo.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 08:08 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I always thought Jesus was kind of a dick, but Jesus Christ, now he's gunning babies!
And in conclusion of this Master Class, let me leave you with one final example of how, with the right skill set, anyone can turn comedy into super comedy.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 08:12 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
JESUS GUNS BABIES

Does Jesus shoot them out of a cannon cuz I'd pay to see that?
I thought it meant Jesus bequeathed rocking biceps on the little ones.
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Old 22nd February 2022, 08:17 PM   #71
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I bet this hangs on the wall of some homes in Trumplandia:

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Old 22nd February 2022, 08:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I bet this hangs on the wall of some homes in Trumplandia:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5a737b4212.jpg
Now, for a limited time, the makers of the junior assault rifle bring you the PRINCE OF PEACEMAKER® in senior and junior sizes.

No more mister nice guy. He's coming back, and this time he's packing!
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Old 23rd February 2022, 10:30 AM   #73
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And of course the printers are gearing up for the new sticker. Who would Jesus Shoot?

66bdfy.jpg

No union bug on me, baby!
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:13 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The concept of resistance to tyranny has always been part of the 2A landscape. Like...since the beginning.
Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Well, noooo.
We've already gone through this upthread.

If the Second Amendment wasn't intended to arm the people against tyrants (e.g. George IIIWP of England and Charles III of SpainWP) what was it intended to do?
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Old 24th February 2022, 07:21 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
We've already gone through this upthread.

If the Second Amendment wasn't intended to arm the people against tyrants (e.g. George IIIWP of England and Charles III of SpainWP) what was it intended to do?
To secure a free State by the use of well regulated militias? As in putting down internal rebellions like the Whiskey and Fries's Rebelllions against the government?

Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
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Old 24th February 2022, 07:36 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
To secure a free State by the use of well regulated militias? As in putting down internal rebellions like the Whiskey and Fries's Rebelllions against the government?
And native Americans, and rebellious slaves.
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Old 24th February 2022, 07:57 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And native Americans, and rebellious slaves.
True. They were seen as threats to a 'secure State'.
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Old 24th February 2022, 08:27 PM   #78
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As in putting down internal rebellions like the Whiskey and Fries's Rebelllions against the government?
What evidence can be adduced that the authors had rebellions rather than despots in mind?

Britannica seems to think that the idea was to "provide for the defense of the nation, to provide a well-trained and disciplined force to check federal tyranny, and to bring constitutional balance by distributing the power of the sword equally among the people, the states, and the federal government."
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Old 25th February 2022, 12:29 AM   #79
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
We've already gone through this upthread.

If the Second Amendment wasn't intended to arm the people against tyrants (e.g. George IIIWP of England and Charles III of SpainWP) what was it intended to do?
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What evidence can be adduced that the authors had rebellions rather than despots in mind?

Britannica seems to think that the idea was to "provide for the defense of the nation, to provide a well-trained and disciplined force to check federal tyranny, and to bring constitutional balance by distributing the power of the sword equally among the people, the states, and the federal government."
I did not say that they did not include foreign threats. I did not say it was one or the other. You limited it to foreign 'tyrants" like George III and Charles III and asked "what was it intended to do?" I expanded it to include internal rebellions and other internal threats. Or do you think militias were only meant to confront foreign threats?
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Old 25th February 2022, 04:02 AM   #80
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It's like a parody of the GQP. Absolutely mental.
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