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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 1st December 2019, 12:14 AM   #2881
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Get away from the hardcore political fandoms (otherwise known as "Most of America") and someone being "For the people" means a lot more then being "Off the people."
Any politician who wants to "Off the people." isn't going to have many supporters after a while.
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Old 1st December 2019, 01:25 AM   #2882
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Awwwww. If I assimilate will I win your approval?

Eta: to elaborate, no, you don't get to decide whether my opinion of Buttgieg's queerness is valid or not. He's the one who decided to run for office and use his sexuality in his bid for the job. So I, and all the other gays, can absolutely judge him on what kind of a gay he is. And in my opinion he's an assimilationist. Which --again, my opinion-- is not a good trait.
Judging him on "what kind of gay he is" is toxic rubbish. It doesn't matter if gays are doing it. Gays can be incredibly awful to one another, too.

We all like men. That is the sum total of our gayness. There's no "boring" sexuality. Gay people didn't patent clubbing, promiscuity, BDSM, or party drugs. To me, those things sound boring, and people who depend on being "queer" to be interesting are terribly dull.
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Old 1st December 2019, 06:28 AM   #2883
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Judging him on "what kind of gay he is" is toxic rubbish...
In addition, it's yet one more criticism based on characteristics that are irrelevant to the job. While an election bears many similarities to a reality show, that doesn't mean we should succumb to that.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:01 AM   #2884
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
In addition, it's yet one more criticism based on characteristics that are irrelevant to the job. While an election bears many similarities to a reality show, that doesn't mean we should succumb to that.
Except he's brought it up as relevant to the job, which makes it fair game for criticism.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:36 AM   #2885
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
We all like men. That is the sum total of our gayness.
No, it's not. That's one commonality we have with each other, but it's not the only difference we have from the rest of society.

This isn't the site for queer theory but take a long look at the rainbow flag. What some people see is a celebration of differences others see as a symbol of conformity: you can be any shade you want so long as you occupy the space allocated to you in the pattern and all the colors march in the same direction. Toleration! to a precise degree. Diversity! be as different as you wish but act the same as everybody else.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:39 AM   #2886
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No, it's not. That's one commonality we have with each other, but it's not the only difference we have from the rest of society.



This isn't the site for queer theory but take a long look at the rainbow flag. What some people see is a celebration of differences others see as a symbol of conformity: you can be any shade you want so long as you occupy the space allocated to you in the pattern and all the colors march in the same direction. Toleration! to a precise degree. Diversity! be as different as you wish but act the same as everybody else.
I'm gonna need a lot more coffee or a lot more pot for this to make sense.
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Old 1st December 2019, 08:44 AM   #2887
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I'm gonna need a lot more coffee or a lot more pot for this to make sense.
Don't bother, this isn't the place for it and in any case it'd be a massive derail.

tl;dr: I don't like Buttgieg for multiple reasons, some of which other people think are ridiculous, but it's irrelevant because he's not going to be the candidate.
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Old 1st December 2019, 10:46 AM   #2888
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Don't bother, this isn't the place for it and in any case it'd be a massive derail.



tl;dr: I don't like Buttgieg for multiple reasons, some of which other people think are ridiculous, but it's irrelevant because he's not going to be the candidate.
How do you go from running someone down for not fitting your version of how gay people should act and then turn around and complain about the terrible oppressive conformity of the gay community symbols?
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Old 1st December 2019, 12:50 PM   #2889
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Don't bother, this isn't the place for it and in any case it'd be a massive derail.

tl;dr: I don't like Buttgieg for multiple reasons, some of which other people think are ridiculous, but it's irrelevant because he's not going to be the candidate.
Yeah and I didn't think Obama or Trump would be the nominees either. Pete is too conservative for me. He's also a bit green. But if he wasn't gay, I think he would win this election easily. This kid is smart, well spoken and has integrity. He's exactly what middle America loves.

But you might argue that if Pete wasn't gay, he'd of unlikely got this far. He might have become lost in the crowd.
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Old 1st December 2019, 06:44 PM   #2890
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah and I didn't think Obama or Trump would be the nominees either. Pete is too conservative for me. He's also a bit green. But if he wasn't gay, I think he would win this election easily. This kid is smart, well spoken and has integrity. He's exactly what middle America loves.

But you might argue that if Pete wasn't gay, he'd of unlikely got this far. He might have become lost in the crowd.
"smart" and "well spoken " are far from unusual, particularly when dealing with a crowd that includes several professional public speakers and at least 2 Rhodes Scholars. "Integrity" is very much in question.

When it came to Beto, my main argument is that, while he'd be a great Texas Senate candidate, he just didn't stand out in a crowd like this. I somewhat like Booker, but said that he was corny as hell and a bit too tied to Wall Street (see: he was infamously made sick by Obama's supposed Billionaire-Bashing). Bloomberg's just a calmer and more intelligent version of Dolt 45, he's still a bigoted authoritarian, I don't even see why he's around aside from protecting his precious Scrooge McDuck-style money bin.

With Pete...I just don't see why he's around aside from vanity and backing from some very wealthy people. He's been the mayor of a college town, and a lot of his residents are pissed because of the job he did (particularly the nonwhite residents) - and I said this soon after he showed up and the residents started speaking out.
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Old 1st December 2019, 07:32 PM   #2891
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According to Emerson, Bernie Sanders is tied with Biden nationwide at 27 percent as of last week, followed by Warren and then Buttigieg. Though they do share a sizable "old white man" vote, Sanders has Biden beat among women, Latinos, and people calling themselves "very liberal".

And Sanders is still the only candidate projected to beat Donald Trump in a head to head general election.

I predict as Biden starts to whither Sanders will take the lead.
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Old 1st December 2019, 07:37 PM   #2892
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
"smart" and "well spoken " are far from unusual, particularly when dealing with a crowd that includes several professional public speakers and at least 2 Rhodes Scholars. "Integrity" is very much in question.

When it came to Beto, my main argument is that, while he'd be a great Texas Senate candidate, he just didn't stand out in a crowd like this. I somewhat like Booker, but said that he was corny as hell and a bit too tied to Wall Street (see: he was infamously made sick by Obama's supposed Billionaire-Bashing). Bloomberg's just a calmer and more intelligent version of Dolt 45, he's still a bigoted authoritarian, I don't even see why he's around aside from protecting his precious Scrooge McDuck-style money bin.

With Pete...I just don't see why he's around aside from vanity and backing from some very wealthy people. He's been the mayor of a college town, and a lot of his residents are pissed because of the job he did (particularly the nonwhite residents) - and I said this soon after he showed up and the residents started speaking out.
I don't get this. How you present yourself wins elections. Most Americans don't look that closely. I also think you're selling Bloomberg a bit short. But he's not my choice. From an issue position Warren is my favorite. But like Hillary, she hasn't impressed me as a candidate.

Kamala Harris seems like a tough prosecutor but does not seem likable. That shouldn't be important, but I know that it is.

I like Booker and Warren more than I do Pete. But I'd support Pete over all the candidates this election if he wasn't gay because I think he would win. I want the candidate who will kick the snot out of Trump. I don't want an Adlai Stevenson or a George McGovern. I don't want to risk a super right wing court on someone I love, but who'll lose.
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Old 1st December 2019, 07:40 PM   #2893
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
According to Emerson, Bernie Sanders is tied with Biden nationwide at 27 percent as of last week, followed by Warren and then Buttigieg. Though they do share a sizable "old white man" vote, Sanders has Biden beat among women, Latinos, and people calling themselves "very liberal".

And Sanders is still the only candidate projected to beat Donald Trump in a head to head general election.

I predict as Biden starts to whither Sanders will take the lead.
I don't think there's a chance in hell of that happening.
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Old 1st December 2019, 10:22 PM   #2894
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I also think you're selling Bloomberg a bit short.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:16 AM   #2895
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't get this. How you present yourself wins elections. Most Americans don't look that closely. I also think you're selling Bloomberg a bit short. But he's not my choice. From an issue position Warren is my favorite. But like Hillary, she hasn't impressed me as a candidate.

Kamala Harris seems like a tough prosecutor but does not seem likable. That shouldn't be important, but I know that it is.

I like Booker and Warren more than I do Pete. But I'd support Pete over all the candidates this election if he wasn't gay because I think he would win. I want the candidate who will kick the snot out of Trump. I don't want an Adlai Stevenson or a George McGovern. I don't want to risk a super right wing court on someone I love, but who'll lose.
I don't understand this reasoning at all. There is no indication that Pete has any meaningful support in the black community which is an absolutely essential component of the Democratic party.

I think it is very likely that Pete will perform well in Iowa and New Hampshire, then get absolutely crushed in South Carolina. I am very much looking forward to his surrogates and supporters suggesting that black homophobia is the reason he has no traction, rather than the fact that Pete's brand of technocratic neoliberalism has very limited appeal.

Pundits, elite neolibs, and conservative Democrats love Pete. That's not a winning coalition.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:27 AM   #2896
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't understand this reasoning at all. There is no indication that Pete has any meaningful support in the black community which is an absolutely essential component of the Democratic party.

I think it is very likely that Pete will perform well in Iowa and New Hampshire, then get absolutely crushed in South Carolina ... Pete's brand of technocratic neoliberalism has very limited appeal.

Pundits, elite neolibs, and conservative Democrats love Pete. That's not a winning coalition.
In broad strokes, I'm sure you're right. That said...

I haven't taken Mayor Pete seriously and I wouldn't vote for him because (1) I fear he would lose the general due to his sexuality and (2) he won't be nominated in any case. Maybe I'm in the dark and I'm missing something that justifies these labels you're attaching to him.

He's not on board with Medicare for all. That's smart and realistic. Medicare for all is a pipe dream on a good day. It's 200 proof, unadulterated fantasy. We may as well debate Lord of the Rings plot lines. Ditto free college for all.

It seems like "smart and thoughtful" have become dirty words.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:47 AM   #2897
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
In broad strokes, I'm sure you're right. That said...

I haven't taken Mayor Pete seriously and I wouldn't vote for him because (1) I fear he would lose the general due to his sexuality and (2) he won't be nominated in any case. Maybe I'm in the dark and I'm missing something that justifies these labels you're attaching to him.

He's not on board with Medicare for all. That's smart and realistic. Medicare for all is a pipe dream on a good day. It's 200 proof, unadulterated fantasy. We may as well debate Lord of the Rings plot lines. Ditto free college for all.

It seems like "smart and thoughtful" have become dirty words.
maybe my read is off, as far as I can tell, everyone to the right of Bernie is garbage.

Pete seems smart and thoughtful. He would surely be a competent administrator president, carefully implementing incremental reforms while largely maintaining the status quo. This is not the kind of person we need in office right now, nor is it the type of person to draw a lot of voter enthusiasm.

The status quo is not particularly popular right now. Trump's success is largely as a rejection of status quo politics, first defeating his crowded primary field and then Hillary. Decades of status quo is what allowed this situation to exist, where ordinary people seem to be doing worse every day. Obama's success was largely as presenting himself as a reformer president (Hope and Change), though his administration largely failed on that promise.

The political problems in this country are not from a lack of smart people in Washington. The country is in political crisis, society is crumbling, the future looks bleak. We need a Democratic candidate that can mobilize working people as a political and social power base, and Pete ain't that.

Technocratic centrism is totally ineffective in offering an alternative to the fascist right.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 09:10 AM   #2898
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I find this article a much more coherent version of what I was trying to say about technocrats and smart people finding solutions in our current system. This is framed around Warren's "Day one" plan, but I think it could easily apply to Pete as well. It's a longer article, but this passage stands out to me as a brief summary of my position:

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/12/execu...w-college-debt
Quote:
Whatever the motivation, “The Day One Agenda” reflects a tremendous and pervasive optimism about clever “solutions” among Warren’s natural support base. The highly credentialed are, unsurprisingly, predisposed to think that bad situations can be managed or avoided through informed or creative reasoning. So it should also be unsurprising that highly educated voters have been drawn to an impressively credentialed former legal academic who promises to solve this nation’s problems through policy and legal expertise. The problem, of course, is that we’ve tried this before.

President Obama, himself an impressively credentialed former legal academic, had only modest success in his attempts to make policy via executive action — for example, both his more ambitious deferred action immigration program and his Clean Power Plan were blocked or delayed by court challenges. That experience should give us reason to doubt that a broken Congress really can be cleverly sidestepped.

So, what to do? It seems that the only real answer is to fix our broken legislature. And, in contrast to Warren, Sanders does have a plan for that, albeit not an especially clever one. Sanders’s plan is based on political hard work and brute force, building and sustaining a mass movement to force government actors to enact ambitious policies.
Smart people like Pete aren't going to walk into office and find a solution by getting a bunch of clever advisers to think about the problem.

Building class consciousness is vital. We need people in power explaining, in painfully clear terms, why things like universal health care are "pipedreams" and how the interests of the rich are impoverishing the nation. Pete won't do that.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:11 AM   #2899
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't understand this reasoning at all. There is no indication that Pete has any meaningful support in the black community which is an absolutely essential component of the Democratic party.

I think it is very likely that Pete will perform well in Iowa and New Hampshire, then get absolutely crushed in South Carolina. I am very much looking forward to his surrogates and supporters suggesting that black homophobia is the reason he has no traction, rather than the fact that Pete's brand of technocratic neoliberalism has very limited appeal.

Pundits, elite neolibs, and conservative Democrats love Pete. That's not a winning coalition.
If it is a choice between Trump and Pete, the black community will choose Pete. I expect Pete to have issues winning the African American community over, but I think it can be done.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:13 AM   #2900
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The average American has seen through the fake nature of the current political system and strongly enough preferred a complete wildcard like Trump, who is not a politician and might finally break it, over a complete establishment figure like Killary. This disgust has only gotten worse since the last election, which is why other establishment clowns will lose to the Orange one again.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:18 AM   #2901
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
In broad strokes, I'm sure you're right. That said...

I haven't taken Mayor Pete seriously and I wouldn't vote for him because (1) I fear he would lose the general due to his sexuality and (2) he won't be nominated in any case. Maybe I'm in the dark and I'm missing something that justifies these labels you're attaching to him.

He's not on board with Medicare for all. That's smart and realistic. Medicare for all is a pipe dream on a good day. It's 200 proof, unadulterated fantasy. We may as well debate Lord of the Rings plot lines. Ditto free college for all.

It seems like "smart and thoughtful" have become dirty words.
It's not that they're dirty, it's that I genuinely don't see him as standing out from the rest of the field in those respects, and most certainly not above the rest. He's more well-spoken than Joe Biden, but that guy's been famous for foot-in-mouth disease. When it comes to policy, he's also "meh". He doesn't seem to get, for example, that restricting "free" public colleges to some arbitrary income level is just begging for it to be attacked - likely along racial lines, same as every other program for the poor.

All I've seen from Pete so far is "mayor of a college town" - and his two big programs were a failed housing restoration effort, and a million dollars spent in courts hiding tapes where racist cops apparently conspire with others to remake the PD Ferguson-style (possibly to hide the fact that some of his donors were among the "others", but we don't really know why). That puts him in the lower tier, frankly. He's not as completely odious as Tulsi Gabbard or Michael Bloomberg, but those two are the "How about you just join the GOP?" tier - and I think I've been clear on what I think about that party. He's also not "Um, I'm worried about your mental well-being these days" level with Biden. But compared to *any* of the rest? Nope. Not really seeing "likability" here either. This is the guy who all but told black activists that he didn't want their vote.

Um, what?

Now, I'll grant that there are a few candidates who I simply don't recognize when they show up, and can't even name. But I'd easily take Booker, Castro, Warren, Sanders, Harris, and likely Yang and Klobuchar before him, any day. I'd like a good doctor to spend some time with Biden, but as long as he's healthy, sure him too. Even if he's against legalizing weed at the federal level (state-level efforts are vastly more important here, in any case).
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:28 AM   #2902
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
If it is a choice between Trump and Pete, the black community will choose Pete. I expect Pete to have issues winning the African American community over, but I think it can be done.
That's true for literally any D candidate, black Americans don't vote for Republicans. Turnout, however, is a different story altogether, but the anti-Trump turnout might make up for a weak candidate.

Winning over black voters if vital for winning the primary though. If he can't win over at least some of the community soon, his campaign is dead in the water.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 11:54 AM   #2903
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While you all were freaking out about the electability of the top 4 against a red electoral college map, the guy with three state wide wins in a red state just stopped running.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:25 PM   #2904
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Steve Bullock and Joe Sestak have dropped out. Not that nearly any of us here likely paid any notable attention to either.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:47 PM   #2905
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Steve Bullock and Joe Sestak have dropped out.
Who?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:49 PM   #2906
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Who?
I think they were actors in one of the dozens of 1980s detective TV shows. Not Riptide but something similar.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:24 PM   #2907
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think they were actors in one of the dozens of 1980s detective TV shows. Not Riptide but something similar.
Democratic Primary Extras.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:25 PM   #2908
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's true for literally any D candidate, black Americans don't vote for Republicans. Turnout, however, is a different story altogether, but the anti-Trump turnout might make up for a weak candidate.

Winning over black voters if vital for winning the primary though. If he can't win over at least some of the community soon, his campaign is dead in the water.
...I'm going to say something about Harris' supposed "unlikability" that may get some people a bit huffy.

I've pointed out before that the anti-Harris ADOS crap was mostly coming from Russian bots. But that was them playing on racial issues again. There's something a bit similar going on here, though.

Ain't it a bit odd that the same people fixated on her supposed awful campaign never want to look into, say, Beto's sudden polling collapse? Or how Pete demoted a black police chief for listening to tapes of white supremacist cops, and effectively protected the cops? How did this fall to The Young Turks, a goofy Youtube group so badly managed that they somehow managed to launch the asinine punditry of both David Rubin *and* Jimmy Dore? Shouldn't NYT be looking into that rather extraordinary issue with the mayor?

Or are they giving another loving interview to some Nazi wannabe? Or, you know, another hit piece from the Bloomberg campaign (Oh, you didn't know)? Of course, these same people couldn't be bothered to look into Toupee Fiasco's extensive racism/mob ties/money laundering/tax and banking fraud/etc. either...

Isn't it a bit odd that, for all the caterwauling about how "mean" she was to Gabbard...she was absolutely correct to note how happily Gabbard just flat-out agreed with whatever right-wing lies her interviewers said, or that she was cozy with the likes of Steve Bannon and Tucker Carlson, which should be a severe concern to anyone who believes in equality under the law?

As obnoxious as Bernie Bros can be, when they say that MSNBC has all but frozen out Sanders...they do have a point.

Similarly, Harris online advocates are fierce, but when they say that the coverage of the only black woman in the race has been relentlessly negative almost from the start, despite still being ahead of several other people who are either ignored or treated more positively...they're right. And anyone who has seen how black women are often treated in the US will know exactly what's up here.

Is she perfect? Of course not, and I've pointed out several candidates that I also like.

But when I hear y'all wave her off and then talk about how Pete is just so smart and nice, I start to wonder if some of y'all are listening to punditry, instead of looking at the candidates themselves.

And as for the mystery of how Pete is unable to connect with black voters...it's no mystery at all. His record towards nonwhite people is garbage, and I've been saying it for months now - long before the Young Turks covered it, because people in South Bend were saying so, publicly and loudly. Not GOP-level "muslims should be banned from entering the country and should have to wear special armbands if their here" level, granted - which is to say, he doesn't actively invite Nazi comparisons, which isn't a bar so much as a buried power line in terms of getting over it. But definitely "Well, I do live in Maryland, I may vote for a third party, or just leave it blank" level.

And I'm speaking as a guy who grew up in a civil rights family, who was taught to vote in every election, and brought to the voting booth every election with my mother and grandfather as a child, and my extended family all call each other to demand that one another vote - only reason I don't vote early here is that it's faster in my pleasant suburb to go on election day.

(I'm also reminded of the fact that Sanders basically never bothered to try to win the black vote - a mistake which handed Clinton the entire south, and quite a few other states, in 2016.)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:59 PM   #2909
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Question

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Who?
The ones who beat republicans in states where republicans win.

But let's continue looking for people to beat republicans in the electoral college by looking at the states...

...checks notes
...

Delaware, Maryland, and Vermont.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:06 PM   #2910
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
...I'm going to say something about Harris' supposed "unlikability" that may get some people a bit huffy.

snipped for brevity
I think the the hatred of Copmala from the progressive wing of the party is quite real. Kamala's history as a DA is not seen as a positive. Given the disproportionate damage the criminal justice system does to black communities, I'm sure much of that distaste is very real. The "tough on crime" democrat is a bit of an outdated political model.

I can't say why she isn't more popular among the more conservative wings of the party that support Biden or Pete. I would agree with your analysis of Pete. His saving grace is that he was the mayor of a small town, so his racist police department doesn't make national headlines frequently enough to tar him as ineffective. If Biden were to start to seriously fail, I wonder if his support might transfer to her.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:08 PM   #2911
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The ones who beat republicans in states where republicans win.

But let's continue looking for people to beat republicans in the electoral college by looking at the states...

...checks notes
...

Delaware, Maryland, and Vermont.
Maybe they should just run a Republican. Is Romney available?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:28 PM   #2912
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I've been kind of changing my attitude on Klobuchar as positive, neutral, then positive as she seems to fade. I think she is a practical politician.

I don't mind Harris being a politician and she can see how far it goes, but somehow her speech manners always annoyed me. So when she starts to speak, I listen to the voice rather than what the words mean.

So a minor point. I hate Trump in 3 or 4 dimensions, in every possible way.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:39 PM   #2913
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
(I'm also reminded of the fact that Sanders basically never bothered to try to win the black vote - a mistake which handed Clinton the entire south, and quite a few other states, in 2016.)
Recent NYT interactive on point, explains why Biden is stronger than he might seem so long as he retains high levels of support among African American primary voters.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:08 PM   #2914
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's true for literally any D candidate, black Americans don't vote for Republicans. Turnout, however, is a different story altogether, but the anti-Trump turnout might make up for a weak candidate.

Winning over black voters if vital for winning the primary though. If he can't win over at least some of the community soon, his campaign is dead in the water.
It's not as vital in the primaries outside of a few Southern states like SC.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:13 PM   #2915
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Biden is really something.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:34 PM   #2916
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Looks like Beto's not completely out of the game -

Beto O'Rourke Launches Major Voter Registration Push To Flip The Texas State House From Red To Blue

And is pretty much doing exactly what he should be, by the look of it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 03:43 PM   #2917
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No, it's not. That's one commonality we have with each other, but it's not the only difference we have from the rest of society.
Straight or gay, a lot of people seem to be hard-wired to form couples. It's not necessarily out of pressure to conform.

I think Buttgieg is going to have a different problem: His name is too weird. But then, we elected Barack Hussein Obama 7 years after 9/11.

Do you think you'd dislike Buttgieg just as much of he were straight?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 04:05 PM   #2918
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Biden is really something.
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Wow, that is scary.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 04:31 PM   #2919
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think there's a chance in hell of that happening.
Why not?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 04:54 PM   #2920
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
I've been kind of changing my attitude on Klobuchar as positive, neutral, then positive as she seems to fade. I think she is a practical politician.

I don't mind Harris being a politician and she can see how far it goes, but somehow her speech manners always annoyed me. So when she starts to speak, I listen to the voice rather than what the words mean.

So a minor point. I hate Trump in 3 or 4 dimensions, in every possible way.
I hate Trump's speech cadence. But the problem really is I KNOW he's going to say something incredibly self centered, or awful or he will be lying. And sometimes all 3 at once.
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