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Old 21st October 2019, 06:34 PM   #281
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What a complete crackpot this Velikovski bloke is, nobody sane would believe planets migrating through the solar system.


Planets were zipping around like billiard balls, ya say?
That is a model where the planets are taking millions of years to migrate. They are not being ejected from Jupiter, a week ago last Tuesday, and doing physics defying handbrake turns around the solar system!
When it comes to physics, Velikovsky was a complete moron. Which is why nobody takes that crap seriously.
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Old 21st October 2019, 07:04 PM   #282
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What a complete crackpot this Velikovski ...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity. Sol88 emphasizes how demented his cult is by implying he believes in the "complete crackpot" Velikovski! Sol88 doubles up on the insanity by linking to a web site listing EU debunking!
Main Electric Universe debunked articles

Sol88's complete insanity of comparing the science of planets migrating in the early Solar System to the insane delusions believed in by his demented cult. Sol88's insane religious dogma is that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

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Old 21st October 2019, 09:05 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
That is a model where the planets are taking millions of years to migrate. They are not being ejected from Jupiter, a week ago last Tuesday, and doing physics defying handbrake turns around the solar system!
When it comes to physics, Velikovsky was a complete moron. Which is why nobody takes that crap seriously.


Ahh, so a once upon a time, long long time ago over millions of year story...


Mean time in the real world, why was this model invoked again, Jonesdave116?

Direct implication for the electric comet/dirtysnowball debate.
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Old 21st October 2019, 09:12 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ahh, so a once upon a time, long long time ago over millions of year story...


Mean time in the real world, why was this model invoked again, Jonesdave116?

Direct implication for the electric comet/dirtysnowball debate.
There is no 'electric comet', and the dirty snowball has long since been ditched. Only you think it is of any relevance. There is no debate. Nobody, with any sort of scientific literacy, thinks the EC woo is anything other than pseudoscientific nonsense. The vast majority will never have heard of it. It doesn't exist in the scientific literature, and is not a creation of scientists. It is no more a scientific challenge to real cometary science than astrology is to astronomy. The difference being, that astrology has more adherents than the electric wooists.
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Old 21st October 2019, 11:46 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So they can be there.... cheers


Rock
Surface electric fields...


I like this new Dirtysnowball model, sounds very familiar.
Quit putting up your strawman "dirtysnowball".
I know you learn from "the best" with George W. Bush saying Irak Irak Irak for 9-11 (although it was Saudi Arabia) and naturally the Trumpster, repeating something so long till something sticks. It is dishonest and despicable! Especially if you want the answers you so greatly lack from the people you are insulting.

Then again, these electric fields (see e.g. Tom Nordheim's paper) cannot possibly do the things that the electric comet idea is claiming happens. But then again you would not know that all that cannot happen, because when people give you answers, you say "yes, thank you" but you think "no, frigging rubbish all that mathemagical drivel".

So. what is the use discussing with you?
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Old 21st October 2019, 11:50 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The inferred mostly icy comets is incorrect.

Comets are rocky objects able to MAKE WATER in situ....
It is physically and chemically impossible to "make water" in such quantities as are observed from the solar wind - comet interaction, especially when at high activity the solar wind does not reach the surface of cometary nucleus.

You know that we have gone through the calculations, even the science paper and the rebuttal have been discussed, many a month ago.

So, again, what is the use of discussing with you when you bring up all the same stuff again and again, when it was clearly shown to you that things do not work the way you and your EC friends want them to?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:51 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
There is no 'electric comet', and the dirty snowball has long since been ditched. Only you think it is of any relevance. There is no debate. Nobody, with any sort of scientific literacy, thinks the EC woo is anything other than pseudoscientific nonsense. The vast majority will never have heard of it. It doesn't exist in the scientific literature, and is not a creation of scientists. It is no more a scientific challenge to real cometary science than astrology is to astronomy. The difference being, that astrology has more adherents than the electric wooists.

YOU HAVE NO MODEL THEN!

What model do the mainstream use?

The high porous dusty nucleus with little to no ice model?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:05 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
It is physically and chemically impossible to "make water" in such quantities as are observed from the solar wind - comet interaction, especially when at high activity the solar wind does not reach the surface of cometary nucleus.

You know that we have gone through the calculations, even the science paper and the rebuttal have been discussed, many a month ago.

So, again, what is the use of discussing with you when you bring up all the same stuff again and again, when it was clearly shown to you that things do not work the way you and your EC friends want them to?
It is physically and chemically impossible to "make water" in such quantities as are observed from the solar wind - comet interaction, tell me all about the hydrocarbons observed on comets....


What we do have mobs is Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon...Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P

ESA/Rosetta/MPS for COSIMA Team

Quote:
According to the study, organic molecules (which are carbon-based molecules like proteins, carbohydrates, and nucleic acids) account for 45 percent of the total mass of all the collected dust. The team found the remaining 55 percent of the dust is in the form of inorganic minerals — mostly silicates.
No ice though...as noted

Quote:
The researchers also found that nearly all of the minerals were completely absent of water. “Of course, [Comet 67P] contains water like any other comet,” said Hilchenbach. “But because comets have spent most of their time at the icy rim of the solar system, it has almost always been frozen and [the water] could not react with the minerals.”
Of course it does because The water production rate of Rosetta target Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near perihelion in 1996, 2002 and 2009 from Lyman α observations with SWAN/SOHO says there must be sheds loads of ice because of all this Lyman-alpha around a comet.

Quote:
Starting with a simple spherical, monokinetic, steadystate model for the collisionless expansion of gas from a point source to vacuum(Haser, 1957), the number density of the gas as a function of distanceρfrom the source can be written as
Temporal deconvolution of the hydrogen coma I. A hybrid model

Ha hah hahhaaahhaa

Game on sport!

your model is WRONG!

You can not process "water" at that rate from the deflected solar wind!

Electron impact of the surface organics along with protonation of SiO2

More than enough ingredients for OH production all the ELECTRIC COMET needs is an electric field... as observed.
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Last edited by Sol88; 22nd October 2019 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:20 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
It is physically and chemically impossible to "make water" in such quantities as are observed from the solar wind - comet interaction, especially when at high activity the solar wind does not reach the surface of cometary nucleus.

You know that we have gone through the calculations, even the science paper and the rebuttal have been discussed, many a month ago.

So, again, what is the use of discussing with you when you bring up all the same stuff again and again, when it was clearly shown to you that things do not work the way you and your EC friends want them to?
Lets go alllllll the waaaayyyyy baaackkk, is there charge separation at comet 67P, Tusenfem?

as per Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction
with a Weakly Outgassing Comet
Jan Deca

Quote:
Although globally the dynamics of the solar wind-weak comet system is that of a four-fluid coupled system, we conclude that a multispecies
electron-kinetic description is a must to fully capture the complex global solar wind-comet interaction process.
Not done yet? Sorry cant say it cant happen then....

Solar wind is not need to allow electron impact ionization on the surface of a comet.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:13 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

your My model is WRONG!
FTFY

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

You can not process "water" at that rate from the deflected solar wind!
That's what I have been saying all the time, glad you finally accept that your water creation fantasy is over now.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:20 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Lets go alllllll the waaaayyyyy baaackkk, is there charge separation at comet 67P, Tusenfem?
Whatever floats your boat, dude, the electrons move away from the comet faster than the ions, and an ambipolar electric field is created, slowing down the electrons and accelerating the ions.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
as per Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction
with a Weakly Outgassing Comet
Jan Deca
I am sure Jan is working on this, there are all kinds of simulations being done, hybrid, pic, and other kinds.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Not done yet? Sorry cant say it cant happen then....
We don't need to numericaly model this (that involves lots of mathemagics, solly) we have the observations that show that your magical water source (which you already said is not working in your previous post) cannot possibly create the amount of observed water. (let alone the even more present CO2)

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Solar wind is not need to allow electron impact ionization on the surface of a comet.
Grammar please?
What electron-impact ionization on the surface, when all electrons are flying away from the comet??????????????
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:54 AM   #292
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Ions too! All flying away from the comet...

Lukraak says no can happen.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:57 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
FTFY



That's what I have been saying all the time, glad you finally accept that your water creation fantasy is over now.
We don’t need the solar wind except to create electric currents and electric fields with the charged rocky nucleus.

Bit like a big LAP instrument.


Experts omitted that little chestnut on the probe they built.

Game, sir, is still on...
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:06 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
We don’t need the solar wind except to create electric currents and electric fields with the charged rocky nucleus.

Bit like a big LAP instrument.


Experts omitted that little chestnut on the probe they built.

Game, sir, is still on...
Nope. Complete gibberish. You cannot explain the water. You haven't explained the water. Fail. You have no electric woo. Fail. Thousands of tonnes of ice excavated at Tempel 1. Fail. Shed loads of it floating around Hartley 2. Fail. No rock. Fail. No EDM (LOL). Fail. No solar wind electrons or ions getting near the nucleus for months. Fail. Et cetera, et cetera. You failed. Only you believe you didn't. Nobody else believes you. You failed. Utterly. Totally. Massive fail.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:13 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It is physically and chemically impossible to "make water" in such quantities as are observed from the solar wind - comet interaction, tell me all about the hydrocarbons observed on comets....


What we do have mobs is Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon...Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P

http://www.astronomy.com/-/media/Ima...mw=1000&mh=800 ESA/Rosetta/MPS for COSIMA Team

No ice though...as noted



Of course it does because The water production rate of Rosetta target Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near perihelion in 1996, 2002 and 2009 from Lyman α observations with SWAN/SOHO says there must be sheds loads of ice because of all this Lyman-alpha around a comet.

Temporal deconvolution of the hydrogen coma I. A hybrid model

Ha hah hahhaaahhaa

Game on sport!

your model is WRONG!

You can not process "water" at that rate from the deflected solar wind!

Electron impact of the surface organics along with protonation of SiO2

More than enough ingredients for OH production all the ELECTRIC COMET needs is an electric field... as observed.
Jesus H. Christ! Where the hell did you get that pile of scientific fail? Been talking to the idiot Thornhill? Lol. Hydrocarbons! Turning into water! Christ, these loons just don't know when to stop embarrassing themselves! Asteroids have hydrocarbons. Hello, EU idiots? So, why are they not turning into comets? Another question you keep running away from. No model, no evidence, no science. Stick to Velikovsky. Science is not for you. Although it is entertaining!
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:15 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
We don’t need the solar wind except to create electric currents and electric fields with the charged rocky nucleus.

Yes you do. Go read the poster by the idiots-in-charge of your cult. Most definitely needed. And no rock. And asteroids are rock. And asteroids are charged permanently. Comets aren't. Et cetera. Same old unscientific crap. Ever thought of going back to school? Assuming you ever attended one. See if you can find an online course entitled 'Science for the delusional', or something similar.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:25 AM   #297
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Quote:
your model is WRONG!
No it isn't. And nobody is saying that it is. Other than a bunch of scientifically illiterate cultists. And nobody is listening to loons like that, in case you hadn't noticed.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:33 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
YOU HAVE NO MODEL THEN!

What model do the mainstream use?

The high porous dusty nucleus with little to no ice model?

You have been told what model. So quit with the lying. There is plenty of ice, as observed. Got it? Tempel 1? Remember that? Killed your woo stone dead. Except that the liar Thornhill didn't bother to tell his intellectually challenged followers about that observation. He was too busy making up crap about electrical woo that didn't happen. Just the same as the clown omitted to tell you about the Hartley 2 mission. Funny that, eh? Is he always this deceitful? How is it possible to be conned by such an obvious conman? Ah well, if you want to believe dishonest nonentities like him, that is your problem;

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Old 22nd October 2019, 09:31 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
We don’t need the solar wind except to create electric currents and electric fields with the charged rocky nucleus.

Bit like a big LAP instrument.


Experts omitted that little chestnut on the probe they built.

Game, sir, is still on...
just show me the money, dude, show that it can work, with your ions and your currents and all, then we might discuss again
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Old 22nd October 2019, 09:53 AM   #300
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Quote:
We don’t need the solar wind except to create electric currents and electric fields with the charged rocky nucleus.

Bit like a big LAP instrument.


Experts omitted that little chestnut on the probe they built.

Game, sir, is still on...
LAP instrument? What, you mean like this one?

RPC-LAP: The Rosetta Langmuir Probe Instrument
Eriksson, A. I. et al (2007)
https://link.springer.com/article/10...214-006-9003-3

They didn't have one on Philae, but they certainly had a magnetometer. No current woo was seen. Sod all of a magnetic field was seen. Zero, to all intents and purposes. So, what does that tell us about the cometary surface whilst Philae was operational, and whilst the solar wind still had access to it?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 11:01 AM   #301
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Of course it does because The water production rate of Rosetta target Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near perihelion in 1996, 2002 and 2009 from Lyman α observations with SWAN/SOHO says there must be sheds loads of ice because of all this Lyman-alpha around a comet.
And there is ice. As seen at Tempel 1. That is when this woo should have died for anybody with half a brain. And you think the only measurements of water at comets are from Lyman-alpha? Errrr, no. Detected definitively countless times since 1985.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:37 PM   #302
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of derailing from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:38 PM   #303
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:39 PM   #304
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
....
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:40 PM   #305
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:46 PM   #306
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

Lukraak stated the basic fact that the solar wind is electrons and positive ions traveling away together from the Sun. Sol88's demented cult destroys that solar wind with a massive solar electric field (massive enough to tear rock apart in their insanity about comets ).

Sol88 and his cult are insanely ignorant of what electric means in electromagnetism - electric fields accelerate positive ions one way and electrons the opposite way !
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:57 PM   #307
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

This is Sol88's insanity that expects on comets know about a demented, obscure cult spewing out insane delusions on the Internet.
Anyone who leans about physics knows that it is difficult to measure electric fields from a distance. Space and mass on a probe are limited so there are limits to what can be deployed on a mission. The experts do not have to include any instrument to placate an demented cult that they do not know exists .
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:14 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P.
Sol88's usual insanity of not citing the science he lies about to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

For others:
Organic molecules make up half of Comet 67P
Quote:
When a comet approaches the Sun, the frozen gases trapped beneath its surface quickly evaporate in a process called outgassing. This often dislodges tiny dust grains from the surface of the comet, which can then be carried into space by the escaping gas.
As expected for dust grains ejected form the surface of a comet because we already know that comets have organic molecules on their surface. No water in the dust grains was also expected.
Quote:
The researchers also found that nearly all of the minerals were completely absent of water. “Of course, [Comet 67P] contains water like any other comet,” said Hilchenbach. “But because comets have spent most of their time at the icy rim of the solar system, it has almost always been frozen and [the water] could not react with the minerals.”
It only takes the 2 brain cells Sol88 and his cult lack to understand this. There are dust grains in the outer solar system.. All the water there is frozen and the dust grains will not react with that ice. So the dust grains will not be hydrated (will lack water). The prediction is that dust grains that collect on the surface of comets when they are in the outer solar system will be dry. This is a confirmed prediction - those dust grains are measured to be dry !

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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:24 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The water production rate of Rosetta target Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near perihelion in 1996, 2002 and 2009 from Lyman α observations with SWAN/SOHO
Sol88's usual insanity of not citing the science he lies about to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

For others:
The water production rate of Rosetta target Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko near perihelion in 1996, 2002 and 2009 from Lyman α observations with SWAN/SOHO
The paper states that in 3 previous orbits, 67P produced water from water ices at similar rates "While the perihelion distance to sun decreased continuously".

Sol88's insane lie here is the paper states there are "loads of ice". The paper is about water production rates! It could be a small amount if water ices sublimating quickly or a large amount of water ices sublimating slowly.
Sol88's insanity about comets is that a solar electric field magically tears rock apart to produce water and comets get close to the Sun but Sol88 cites a constant rate for water production as a comet gets ever closer to the Sun during 3 orbits .

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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:32 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Temporal deconvolution of the hydrogen coma I. A hybrid model
Sol88's usual insanity of not citing the science he lies about to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

For others:
Temporal deconvolution of the hydrogen coma I. A hybrid model
Quote:
This paper describes a semi-analytical model, tentatively called the time-resolved model (TRM), for calculating the proper temporally resolved column density and Lyman-alpha intensity profiles of the extended cometary hydrogen coma, with potentially arbitrary number of photodissociation sources with different initial velocity profiles. The non-analytical part consists of a true 3D particle simulator whose results are used to obtain the necessary corrective parameters for the analytical, spherically symmetric formulas for the column density and intensity profiles. The hybrid approach provides a physically accurate and computationally effective method to recreate the extended coma profiles and supports a new analysis method that can provide hydrogen lifetime estimates and a much enhanced temporal resolution for the water production curve, for which a method is described. The ability to recreate the water production profile by different analysis methods is studied with a combination of real and simulated data. This is the first part of a two part publication with the second part dedicated to real data analysis.
This is standard physics. Create a computer model of a real-world situation using real physics. Test that model against real data (part 2 of the paper).
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:45 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction
with a Weakly Outgassing Comet
Jan Deca ... on the surface of a comet
Sol88's usual insanity of not citing the science he lies about to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

For others:
Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet
Quote:
Using a 3D fully kinetic approach, we disentangle and explain the ion and electron dynamics of the solar wind interaction with a weakly outgassing comet. We show that, to first order, the dynamical interaction is representative of a four-fluid coupled system. We self-consistently simulate and identify the origin of the warm and suprathermal electron distributions observed by ESA’s Rosetta mission to comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko and conclude that a detailed kinetic treatment of the electron dynamics is critical to fully capture the complex physics of mass-loading plasmas.
Anyone can read that this is a simulation of the solar wind interacting with outgassing from a comet, i.e. the comet coma. The PIC model used has only plasma and no comet nucleus at all !

Viewpoint: 3D View of a Comet’s Neighborhood describes the paper with graphics that make it clear that the solar wind is interacting with the comet coma.

Sol88's insane lie about this paper is that it supports Sol88's repeated insanity about electric fields on comet nuclei.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:57 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
You have been told what model. So quit with the lying. There is plenty of ice, as observed. Got it? Tempel 1? Remember that? Killed your woo stone dead. Except that the liar Thornhill didn't bother to tell his intellectually challenged followers about that observation. He was too busy making up crap about electrical woo that didn't happen. Just the same as the clown omitted to tell you about the Hartley 2 mission. Funny that, eh? Is he always this deceitful? How is it possible to be conned by such an obvious conman? Ah well, if you want to believe dishonest nonentities like him, that is your problem;

https://scx1.b-cdn.net/csz/news/800/spacecraftfl.jpg


Quote:
It is believed that this is the source of much of the water coming from the comet.
As long as YOU believe (have faith) this is true...

further

Quote:
The flyby of Hartley 2 showed that many of the icy grains in the coma are driven out by the outgassing of carbon dioxide. It is believed that this is the source of much of the water coming from the comet.
103P/Hartley

Not a viable mechanism as observed by Rosetta (the probe orbiting a comet for some time).

Quote:
The sublimation of not only water ice, but also of super-volatile ice (i.e., CO) is unable to remove dust grains for illumination conditions corresponding
to 1.3 AU. A way out of this impasse requires revision of the most common model assumption employed by the cometary community.
Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

So...the "ice" at 103P/Hartley is believed to be in line with the DIRTYSNOWBALL, because it WAS known that comet ARE MOSTLY ICE!!!

You know, this was the ONLY MODEL the mainstream have, apparently its not a viable model anymore (and no one here can point me in the wright direction to the NEW mainstream model), so...

Quote:
(c) What are comets made of?

At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly
rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative
model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving
more toward mostly rock
, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high
as 6 have been cited [3,4].
Comets: looking ahead

Comets are NOT leftovers from the formation of the solar system story.

They are rocky bodies...Cometary Dust

Quote:
the PUMA instrument (Dust Impact Mass Analyser) on board Vega-1 discovered dust particles to consist of rock-forming minerals, and also of carbon hydrogen-
oxygen-nitrogen compounds, so-called CHONs
Quote:
1. Although interstellar silicates are known from astronomical observations to be almost
entirely amorphous, approximately half of the silicates in 81P/Wild 2 samples are crystalline
(Westphal et al. 2009; Stodolna et al. 2014).

2. Among crystalline minerals, olivines, pyroxenes and Fe sulfides are the most abundant
minerals present in the 81P/Wild 2 samples.

3. Approximately 1% of the particles recovered from 81P/Wild 2 are assemblages of highly
refractory minerals, reminiscent of Calcium-Aluminum-rich Inclusions (CAIs) found in
chondritic meteorites, which are thought to be high-temperature condensates and perhaps
the first solids to have formed in the cooling inner solar nebula (Brownlee et al. 2006;
Zolensky et al. 2006; Joswiak et al. 2017).

4. The collection also contains numerous small igneous “rocks”—assemblages of minerals
that apparently cooled from a melt. These are reminiscent of chondrules, found in chondritic
meteorites, which are thought to be cooled melt droplets. The origin of chondrules
is unclear (and is controversial), but it is certain that they do not share a common origin
with CAIs, and generally appear to be a few Myrs younger than CAIs, based on 26Al
dating, although 26Al ages are controversial (Ogliore et al. 2015; Nakamura et al. 2008;
Kööp et al. 2016; Gainsforth et al. 2015).

5. 81P/Wild 2 samples contained large amount of fine-grained matrix (individual size of
minerals <1 μm) that did not survive well the impact. This fine-grained component got
mixed with melted aerogel in the walls of the impact tracks and contains olivine, pyroxenes
and Fe sulfides. The composition of this fine-grained component is close to the
chondritic CI composition (Leroux et al. 2008; Leroux 2012; Leroux and Jacob 2013).

6. Although not common, Fe–Ni metal particles at least up to 20 μm in size are present in
81P/Wild 2. One particle that was studied in detail has an unusual composition reminiscent
of metals found in ureilites, a family of meteorites that is poorly understood but may
have a composition consistent with smelting of silicates in a carbon-rich environment,
with Fe originally in silicates reduced to metal (Westphal et al. 2012; Humayun et al.
2015).

7. Small amounts of minerals possibly resulting from aqueous alteration have been identified
in 81P/Wild 2 samples, like magnetite grains (Stodolna et al. 2012), carbonates
(Flynn 2008; Flynn et al. 2009a; Mikouchi et al. 2007; Wirick et al. 2007; Leroux 2012),
and a copper iron sulfide (cubanite) in association with pyrrothite and pentlandite (Berger
et al. 2011). No hydrated silicates have been identified in 81P/Wild 2 samples.
AGAIN

Quote:
although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high
as 6 have been cited
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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:16 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
And there is ice. As seen at Tempel 1. That is when this woo should have died for anybody with half a brain. And you think the only measurements of water at comets are from Lyman-alpha? Errrr, no. Detected definitively countless times since 1985.
You are complete numpty on how Q is guestimated at!

It lead YOU to believe comets are mostly ice, dirtysnowballs.

Where else would the Hydrogen come from??????

and Oxygen???

And Carbon???



Ummmmmm..... all from "ice????, for the love of ...

Quote:
The all-sky hydrogen Lyman-alpha camera, SWAN (Solar Wind Anisotropies), on the SOlar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) satellite makes observations of the hydrogen coma of comets. Most water molecules produced by comets are ultimately photodissociated into two H atoms and one O atom producing a huge atomic hydrogen coma that is routinely observed in the daily full-sky SWAN images in comets of sufficient brightness. Water production rates are calculated using our time-resolved model (Mäkinen & Combi, 2005, Icarus 177, 217), typically yielding about 1 observation every 2 days on the average for each comet over the brightest part of its apparition. Here we describe the progress in analysis of observations of comets observed in 2016 and 2017. These include comets 2P/Encke, 41P/Tuttle-Giacobini-Sresak, 45P/ Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova, and C/2015 ER61 (PanSTARRS). A status update on the entire SOHO/SWAN archive of water production rates in comets will also be given.SOHO is an international cooperative mission between ESA and NASA. Support from grants NNX15AJ81G from the NASA Solar System Observations Planetary Astronomy Program and a previous grant NNX13AQ66G from the NASA Planetary Mission Data Analysis Program are gratefully acknowledged, as is support from CNRS, CNES, and the Finnish Meteorological Institute (FMI).
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2017DPS....4941407C
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“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

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Old 22nd October 2019, 06:28 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
You have been told what model. So quit with the lying. There is plenty of ice, as observed. Got it? Tempel 1? Remember that? Killed your woo stone dead. Except that the liar Thornhill didn't bother to tell his intellectually challenged followers about that observation. He was too busy making up crap about electrical woo that didn't happen. Just the same as the clown omitted to tell you about the Hartley 2 mission. Funny that, eh? Is he always this deceitful? How is it possible to be conned by such an obvious conman? Ah well, if you want to believe dishonest nonentities like him, that is your problem;

https://scx1.b-cdn.net/csz/news/800/spacecraftfl.jpg
Do you agree with these papers, jonesdave116?

Investigation of dust and water ice in comet 9P/Tempel from Spitzer observations of the Deep Impact event

A large dust/ice ratio in the nucleus of comet 9P/Tempel 1

Ice is inferred because
Quote:
The corresponding dust/ice mass ratio is probably larger than one, suggesting that comets are ‘icy dirtballs’ rather than ‘dirty snowballs’ as commonly believed. High dust velocities (between 110 m s-1 and 300 m s-1) imply acceleration in the comet's coma, probably by water molecules sublimated by solar radiation.
So is ok now, if I call the mainstream model of comets icy dirtballs?

THE DUST IS CHARGED...so , implying acceleration in the comet's coma, probably by water molecules sublimated by solar radiation is adhering to the dirtysnowball model!
Quote:
although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock
.

Now, if only there there was an electric field to act on this 4.5 charged dust...it would make things easier than trying to invoke little sublimation rockets on the refractory dust?

wOW sublimation!!!!

Amazing..
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:15 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

Lukraak stated the basic fact that the solar wind is electrons and positive ions traveling away together from the Sun. Sol88's demented cult destroys that solar wind with a massive solar electric field (massive enough to tear rock apart in their insanity about comets ).

Sol88 and his cult are insanely ignorant of what electric means in electromagnetism - electric fields accelerate positive ions one way and electrons the opposite way !
Lukraak Sisser, Reality check, Joenesdave116, you do know you look like absolute dorks
Quote:
Lukraak stated the basic fact that the solar wind is electrons and positive ions traveling away together from the Sun. Sol88's demented cult destroys that solar wind with a massive solar electric field (massive enough to tear rock apart in their insanity about comets

You do know in the ELECTRIC SUN model (Proven by SAFIRE) quasi-neutrality is EXPECTED


Have a read if you struggle with the FACTS

Quote:
Primer on “Gas Discharges” Positive Column

This is the physically largest component of a normal discharge. The plasma is quasi-neutral. The electric field is weak, typically 1 V/cm (This is low considering that the terminal to terminal applied voltage can be of the order of 1000 V.) The electric field is just large enough to maintain a degree of ionization at its cathode end. The electron number density is about 1015 to 1016 electrons/m3, and the electron temperature is typically in the range of 1 to 2 eV. In air, the positive column plasma is pinkish blue. As the length of the discharge tube is increased at constant pressure, the length of the cathode structures remains constant, and the positive column lengthens. The positive column is a long, uniform glow mode discharge, except when standing or moving striations, or ionization (Alfvén) waves are triggered by a disturbance. All this, of course, is observed in the laboratory.

In the case of the plasma surrounding the Sun, the solar corona is the positive column. The Faraday dark space extends out from the end of the corona to the heliopause (virtual cathode). A DL may exist between the positive column and the anode glow especially in a cosmic plasma such as the solar wind. This DL would occur only if the applied voltage were extremely high valued. A significant fraction of this high voltage would appear across this DL.
You should be ready to graduate from primary school electrostatics now...
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:20 PM   #316
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

This persistent and insane lie is that a paper on cometary dust is anything to do with his comets are rock insanity.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:20 PM   #317
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So who cares if you can not understand basic plasma physics and you're still hung up on the Sun as a giant pith ball!


Quote:
3. Space Plasmas vs. Laboratory Experiments Several of the component structures observed in laboratory plasmas are in one-to-one correspondence with observed solar and cosmic phenomena. But there are at least two significant differences that must be recognized.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 22nd October 2019 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:25 PM   #318
Reality Check
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Location: New Zealand
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Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

Sol88 is insanely ignorant about comets and so has no idea how production rates (Q) are measured.

An insane lie that Q was why comets in the 1950's were thought to be more ices than dust. It was that the early solar system obviously had more ices than dust and comets retained that ratio.

An insane lie that jonesdave116 believes that comets are mostly ices when jonesdave116 has stated many times that this was shown not to be correct decades ago.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:27 PM   #319
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,018
Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's usual insanity of persistent and insane lies to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

Nothing Sol88 has cited in the last 10 years shows that comets are actual rock as in his cult's electric comet dogma.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 07:42 PM   #320
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26,018
Thumbs down The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. addressed over the last 10 years

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Lukraak Sisser, Reality check, Joenesdave116, ...
The usual insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. already addressed over the last 10 years.
The insane insults of the deceased Michael Francis A'Hearn by Sol88 linking him with demented dogma, etc.
Sol88's lies about the demented SAFIRE experiment about the Sun and a scientific experiment about the solar wind and Parker spiral
Yet more propaganda from the Thunderbolts cult on the insane SAFIRE project.
That conversation with Monty exposed that the already insane SAFIRE project is even more insane than collapsing the Sun to a white dwarf
Plasma has been explained to Sol88 many times over the last 10 or more years but he is too interested in drinking his cult's poison to understand that plasma is a partially ionized gas that is quasi-neutral. !

Sol88's insane insults of posters to derail from Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) !

We know at least high school level physics. Sol88 and his demented cult are insanely ignorant of high school level physics.
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Lukraak stated the basic fact that the solar wind is electrons and positive ions traveling away together from the Sun. Sol88's demented cult destroys that solar wind with a massive solar electric field (massive enough to tear rock apart in their insanity about comets ).

Sol88 and his cult are insanely ignorant of what electric means in electromagnetism - electric fields accelerate positive ions one way and electrons the opposite way !
The insanity is an electric field "massive enough to tear rock apart in their insanity about comets". If big enough that makes the solar wind into just electrons or just positive ions which is not the case .
Additional insanity of Sol88 and his demented cult not calculating the size of the required electric field or its effect on the solar wind.

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd October 2019 at 07:44 PM.
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