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Tags bigfoot , bigfoot sightings , NAWAC

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Old 11th March 2015, 06:25 AM   #401
idoubtit
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Amazing amounts of pulled-out-of-your-behind speculation here...

I closed the comments because 200+ comments of back and forth arguing about belief is not the kind of discourse I want on my site (it was also difficult to moderate). Also, it's MY SITE, I can write my thoughts as I wish. I don't carry some sort of skeptic flag or toe a line, and am no "arch-Skeptic". I can, for example, have a reasonable discussion with Bigfooters without having them throw crap at me because I don't stick my feet in the ground and harumph. If that's your way, that's fine but I prefer to remain open to interesting multi-faceted ideas.

Entertaining the claim is not the same as endorsing it (however, I can now see how this was taken as endorsement and I'll try to rectify that.) I can't listen to about 90% of Bigfooters garbage but I find NAWAC at least reasonable to have a discussion. Your milage may vary.

I will look into the NAWAC situation a bit more and will likely follow up with another post on my personal site since it's not really appropriate for Doubtful News. I'm not impressed by the level of discussion here, so I'll not be participating. I'm not avoiding anything, not being paid by anyone, not on the take, and a "shill" in name only. If you want to have a decent exchange without all this nonsense, you can email me as a few have.
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Old 11th March 2015, 06:34 AM   #402
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Sharon, with all due respect, you have not answered the question, "What is compelling at Area X?"
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Old 11th March 2015, 06:55 AM   #403
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:12 AM   #404
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Sharon Hill, Is there a specific piece of evidence in the NAWAC report that you would consider convincing?
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:16 AM   #405
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Sharon, I'm not trying to pile on, but I am genuinely curious about what is different regarding the NAWAC claim versus any other unsupported bigfoot anecdote(s)? Is it the style of writing? The claims of shared experiences?

I am also curious why you seem to discount dishonesty from within the research group as a potential explanation for some events.
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:21 AM   #406
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I suspect that she does not want to engage here at all.
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:23 AM   #407
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Thanks Parcher.

I am just a simple man, and can't comment at Doubtful News anymore. So I thought I'd put it out there in the hopes that she doubles-back and decides to answer.
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:29 AM   #408
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Well how doubt that!
Kudus for having the brass to come here insult eveyone and dash...tah-tah you'll be a footer in no time
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:48 AM   #409
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So, putting the soap opera aside for a moment, Im wondering if NAWAC (if they want this monograph to be taken seriously as a scientific document) would be open to letting others try and replicate their results. It'd be interesting to approach them about this, to see whether they need to keep their super secret research area super secret, or if they're confident enough in what they've experienced to let someone else try and document the same to validate what they're claiming.

Last edited by Pterodactyl; 11th March 2015 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:53 AM   #410
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"Evidence" of the kind that they get is useless. Only biological samples are functional evidence. Rocks thrown, sounds and glimpses are totally worthless to a visiting guest "peer".
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:55 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
So, putting the soap opera aside for a moment, Im wondering if NAWAC (if they want this monograph to be taken seriously as a scientific document) would be open to letting others try and replicate their results. It'd be interesting to approach them about this, to see whether they need to keep their super secret research area super secret, or if they're confident enough in what they've experienced to let someone else try and document the same to validate what they're claiming.
I'm sure they would let Dr. Medrum, or John Bindernagel, or some other invested party come check it out.
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Old 11th March 2015, 07:56 AM   #412
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Wood apes give people something to do in the outdoors. I think a more enjoyable use of time in Oklahoma though, would be to set up a recliner on the road just above area-X and enjoy the scenery there. That bug infested forest isn't as fun as it looks.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:00 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I'm sure they would let Dr. Medrum, or John Bindernagel, or some other invested party come check it out.
A complete mystery why somebody like that hasn't been invited and gone there already.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:00 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
"Evidence" of the kind that they get is useless. Only biological samples are functional evidence. Rocks thrown, sounds and glimpses are totally worthless to a visiting guest "peer".
Im not sure I agree.
For instance, if I were a visiting peer and got a glimpse or a rock thrown at me, Id run down whoever threw it. That could shed some light on things.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:00 AM   #415
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I forget who it was, but someone explained the relevance of "wood ape" to me on this forum. Derp, apes live in woods. This would be the equivalent of "earth dog" or "water fish."
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:06 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Im not sure I agree.
For instance, if I were a visiting peer and got a glimpse or a rock thrown at me, Id run down whoever threw it. That could shed some light on things.
Useless unless running down includes getting biological material.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:07 AM   #417
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They've claimed the wood apes run faster than a bear and hide like some ninja at night when they're throwing those rocks.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:07 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Useless unless running down includes getting biological material.
I was thinking more along the lines of pulling the mask off a guy in a monkey suit and taking a picture.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:09 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Useless unless running down includes getting biological material.
The problem is, if you announce that you are going to run down one and obtain biological material, you are giving away your tactic to the hoaxers. The hoaxer, which probably has an inside contact, will know that one of the people there is going to chase them down with a bat, or a knife, and get some material.

I made the mistake of announcing this when I got to the Michigan site.

There were no sightings that evening.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:17 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
So, putting the soap opera aside for a moment, Im wondering if NAWAC (if they want this monograph to be taken seriously as a scientific document) would be open to letting others try and replicate their results. It'd be interesting to approach them about this, to see whether they need to keep their super secret research area super secret, or if they're confident enough in what they've experienced to let someone else try and document the same to validate what they're claiming.
That's whats so goofy about 99.9% of these stories..the only secret is that eveytime they show up so does Bigfoot the area is as beat as Chris's secret world.
How doubt this NAWACKYs here's a challenge for you let's see ya put your money where your mouth is.
NAWACKY doesn't need more brains on site....they claim to basically have an ape trying to commit suicide on a regular schedule.....they need competent shooters!!!
You give me the GPS location of your site, eveyone abandons the site for two months. I have unfettered access to the location, your not going to know when I show up.
But I will guarantee if your monkey man is doing what you claim he's doing while I'm there....you'll be getting a call about what to do with all the bodies.
Also I will host the "Skeptics Crow Barbecue" and Sharon can serve me to first plate
PT you in?
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:18 AM   #421
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They should send Team HindenBLAARG to Area X. Surely the wood apes hiding days would be over in no time!

Last edited by dmaker; 11th March 2015 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:19 AM   #422
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You can't prove to the world that there are no Bigfoots at Area X. It's unfalsifiable. If you find a hoaxer the NAWAC will still say that they have real apes at the site. You will have to disprove everything that they claim as evidence.

They will absolutely not allow you to end their fantasy game.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:21 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
Amazing amounts of pulled-out-of-your-behind speculation here...

I closed the comments because 200+ comments of back and forth arguing about belief is not the kind of discourse I want on my site (it was also difficult to moderate). Also, it's MY SITE, I can write my thoughts as I wish. I don't carry some sort of skeptic flag or toe a line, and am no "arch-Skeptic". I can, for example, have a reasonable discussion with Bigfooters without having them throw crap at me because I don't stick my feet in the ground and harumph. If that's your way, that's fine but I prefer to remain open to interesting multi-faceted ideas.

Entertaining the claim is not the same as endorsing it (however, I can now see how this was taken as endorsement and I'll try to rectify that.) I can't listen to about 90% of Bigfooters garbage but I find NAWAC at least reasonable to have a discussion. Your milage may vary.

I will look into the NAWAC situation a bit more and will likely follow up with another post on my personal site since it's not really appropriate for Doubtful News. I'm not impressed by the level of discussion here, so I'll not be participating. I'm not avoiding anything, not being paid by anyone, not on the take, and a "shill" in name only. If you want to have a decent exchange without all this nonsense, you can email me as a few have.
Sharon,
With all due respect, it's quite disingenuous to claim that the conversation was out of control and not of the sort that you wished to see when:

A) You can control what gets through for posting.
B) All you had to do was steer the conversation to a more serious vein by responding to the genuine inquiries. Several have been quoted here and rephrased several times and simply responding to them would have done wonders for the content of the comments section.

And it would be very easy to steer the conversation here onto similarly productive ground; just show a willingness to discuss rather than bridling at comments that you find prickly.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:27 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
That's whats so goofy about 99.9% of these stories..the only secret is that eveytime they show up so does Bigfoot the area is as beat as Chris's secret world.
How doubt this NAWACKYs here's a challenge for you let's see ya put your money where your mouth is.
NAWACKY doesn't need more brains on site....they claim to basically have an ape trying to commit suicide on a regular schedule.....they need competent shooters!!!
You give me the GPS location of your site, eveyone abandons the site for two months. I have unfettered access to the location, your not going to know when I show up.
But I will guarantee if your monkey man is doing what you claim he's doing while I'm there....you'll be getting a call about what to do with all the bodies.
Also I will host the "Skeptics Crow Barbecue" and Sharon can serve me to first plate
PT you in?
Well, there's no way Im actually going to take a shot at a "hominid" on 2 legs in the woods of Oklahoma. But yes Id visit the site, of course.
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Old 11th March 2015, 08:41 AM   #425
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There is no guy in a costume waiting there for you. That would be absurd. If it's a hoax, the NAWAC would have to be making it up (as a story).
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Old 11th March 2015, 09:25 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
Amazing amounts of pulled-out-of-your-behind speculation here...

I closed the comments because 200+ comments of back and forth arguing about belief is not the kind of discourse I want on my site (it was also difficult to moderate). Also, it's MY SITE, I can write my thoughts as I wish. I don't carry some sort of skeptic flag or toe a line, and am no "arch-Skeptic". I can, for example, have a reasonable discussion with Bigfooters without having them throw crap at me because I don't stick my feet in the ground and harumph. If that's your way, that's fine but I prefer to remain open to interesting multi-faceted ideas.

Entertaining the claim is not the same as endorsing it (however, I can now see how this was taken as endorsement and I'll try to rectify that.) I can't listen to about 90% of Bigfooters garbage but I find NAWAC at least reasonable to have a discussion. Your milage may vary.

I will look into the NAWAC situation a bit more and will likely follow up with another post on my personal site since it's not really appropriate for Doubtful News. I'm not impressed by the level of discussion here, so I'll not be participating. I'm not avoiding anything, not being paid by anyone, not on the take, and a "shill" in name only. If you want to have a decent exchange without all this nonsense, you can email me as a few have.
LOL @ "interesting multi-faceted ideas." What's the difference between entertaining this bollocks and the average bollocks we see coming out of the Crypto-world every single day? That's what I'd like to know. I find your stance hilarious and pretty hypocritical.
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Old 11th March 2015, 09:27 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
They've claimed the wood apes run faster than a bear and hide like some ninja at night when they're throwing those rocks.
Isn't that pretty much all Bigfoot in general?
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Old 11th March 2015, 09:31 AM   #428
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It would have to be.
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Old 11th March 2015, 09:51 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
I can, for example, have a reasonable discussion with Bigfooters without having them throw crap at me because I don't stick my feet in the ground and harumph.
I've had reasonable discussions with believers and my feet are firmly in place on the ground.

I can't recall being attacked by a believer, either. There have been a lot of bigfoot threads here though, so I may have forgotten.

Very few believers have made me want to stop talking to them.

Sweaty Yeti and ChrisBFRPKY are the two that come immediately to mind.

And Bill Munns.

And even those are not because the subject was bigfoot. The subject could have been anything.
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Old 11th March 2015, 10:40 AM   #430
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The best way to analyze the data from Area X would be I think to compile the collected publications of the Ouachita National Forest as the lynchpin to a demonstration of human land use history in the vicinity. I don't think the NAWACers (and evidently Sharon Hill) have but the faintest understanding of the work that has and still does go on there, sans bigfoot.

Personally, I've enjoyed my opportunities to conduct what limited field work I have in the area. I would much prefer, however, to not be in the woods with those people on the off chance that they are weaponized as they claim to be, and in search of a tall, bipedal quarry.
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Old 11th March 2015, 11:33 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Useless unless running down includes getting biological material.
If you have a .454 Cassull with you and use it properly, You should have a lot of biological material to work with.
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Old 11th March 2015, 11:41 AM   #432
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Fuelair, it has been shown that NAWAC are pretty bad shots.
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:11 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Well, there's no way Im actually going to take a shot at a "hominid" on 2 legs in the woods of Oklahoma. But yes Id visit the site, of course.
If we go the only thing we'll be shooting is line
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:42 PM   #434
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At this point I think it's time to listen to this NAWAC guy telling his bigfoot story again (with all due respect of course ).
Go to 57'00"
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I AGREE
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:45 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
They should send Team HindenBLAARG to Area X. Surely the wood apes hiding days would be over in no time!
Heck ya lets go all out......
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:51 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by Castro View Post
At this point I think it's time to listen to this NAWAC guy telling his bigfoot story again (with all due respect of course ).
Go to 57'00"
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
I'd imagine Bigfoot would cover at least 100 yards before that guy gets off his chair.
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Old 11th March 2015, 12:59 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
I still think it has something to do with her new business venture.
After her response (below), I'm convinced of it.

Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
...
So far, she seems to be responding to the dust up as an example of us skeptics not being good skeptics but instead engaging in denialism.

Meanwhile, at Area X . . . a decided lack of bigfoots.
There is no Bigfoot, yet we're the one's in denial?! That's the sort of disorder that needs harder drugs than I can supply. I suppose Obama put her up to this.

Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
This seems to be the consensus here, and I agree with it.

I found the following half-remembered quote, attributed to Upton Sinclair:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
It has various corollaries.

Being skeptical isn't a profitable vocation else I think there would be a lot more skeptics. And what exactly is "skeptical consulting" anyway?
Excellent quote. The proverbial conflict of interest. Which is surely what's happened here. Though not necessarily for just "money".

Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
Amazing amounts of pulled-out-of-your-behind speculation here...

<pablum snip>

I will look into the NAWAC situation a bit more and will likely follow up with another post on my personal site since it's not really appropriate for Doubtful News. I'm not impressed by the level of discussion here, so I'll not be participating. I'm not avoiding anything, not being paid by anyone, not on the take, and a "shill" in name only. If you want to have a decent exchange without all this nonsense, you can email me as a few have.
Yes of course, the nerve of us to "speculate" on your 180º stance reversal in the absence of a more reasonable and rational explanation coming from you. We MUST BE punished.

Oh and please stop with the condescension. You probably need to re-examine the notion that in the end you will be the only one looking like a FOOL. So don't mistake your 'not being impressed' here with what your ultimate "public relations" nightmare is really gonna be. You'll need more than good luck ma'am.

And just so I'm as clear (as you pretended to be), I couldn't give a flying **** less if you moved in and married a whole gaggle of Oklahoma Bigfeet. You could be their token "skeptic" "human" and "write" about it on just your "personal website" any way "you" want to "write nonsense" about "it".
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Old 11th March 2015, 01:07 PM   #438
Drewbot
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Oh they went all out.
The ground team (NAWAC) has the ebidence. And the Falcon project outfitted their blimp with some 30mm chain guns.

__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
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Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
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Old 11th March 2015, 01:10 PM   #439
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No doubt her new business making things all sciencey sounding and the first outing gets pummeled on her own blog Opps apply tourniquet!!...that's the only reason I can think to shut down the conversation.
Then come here and take a big emotional dump of gibberish didn't really help her case.

Dang Drew I knew I should have left it up to the experts...that rocks!
TAKE THAT BIGFEETS!

Last edited by Cervelo; 11th March 2015 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 11th March 2015, 03:26 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
The best way to analyze the data from Area X would be I think to compile the collected publications of the Ouachita National Forest as the lynchpin to a demonstration of human land use history in the vicinity. I don't think the NAWACers (and evidently Sharon Hill) have but the faintest understanding of the work that has and still does go on there, sans bigfoot.

Personally, I've enjoyed my opportunities to conduct what limited field work I have in the area. I would much prefer, however, to not be in the woods with those people on the off chance that they are weaponized as they claim to be, and in search of a tall, bipedal quarry.
Well if this park is like most such parks, there should be reports, studies coming out of wazoo to read, and plenty of Park Employees, researchers etc., to interview. So why haven't these "researchers", it seems, done any of that?
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