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11th March 2015, 03:37 PM | #441 |
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It's a National Forest, part of the US Forest Service of our US Department of Agriculture. Yes, the information flows freely from the wazoo, for those interested in spending any time learning about the area.
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11th March 2015, 03:41 PM | #442 |
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Normal in a weird way. |
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11th March 2015, 03:44 PM | #443 |
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Believing in Bigfoot as a skeptic is like being gay in a Christian community. People will suspect it and you never really come out due to the consequences. Even then though, you're walking on egg shells...
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11th March 2015, 04:25 PM | #444 |
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My bold indicates what I think most are alluding to. It might be noted that many have asked what about this particular claim (the nawac bigfoot "situation") has you interested? Can you be specific as to what claims made this specific instance different than others? I would email you, but I prefer a public discourse unless it is no longer possible. I've enjoyed your posts here and your blog discussions as well. (although I'm not an active member there, I'm more of a reader or lurker) It seems that many skeptics are concerned that you have "drank the kool-aid" offered by the nawac group. I hope with more investigation you will discover that all bigfoot claims (including this one!) end the same. I would like to challenge you (or anyone else! skeptic or footer) to show that any bigfoot claim is resolved to anything but one of these three categories. 1) Hoaxing/lying/storytelling. 2) Deluded or mentally unstable individuals. 3) Very rarely, mistaken identity. (generally due to "interest" in the subject) In fact, all resolved bigfoot claims fall into these three categories. Bigfoot is no longer a mystery. We know what the "phenomenon" is now. The only mystery here is why would you give any bigfoot claim more than a giggle - or an article exposing it? |
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"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY "I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY |
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11th March 2015, 04:32 PM | #445 |
Show me the monkey!
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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11th March 2015, 05:21 PM | #446 |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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11th March 2015, 05:53 PM | #447 |
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11th March 2015, 06:20 PM | #448 |
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For sasquatch, better mount the 105mm in the blimp...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...U/PICT0161.jpg Faces blurred because they are gunning for the wood ape. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...al_Gunners.jpg |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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11th March 2015, 07:36 PM | #449 |
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11th March 2015, 08:55 PM | #450 |
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The Beginning of Area X -- part 1
I'll try to deconstruct the Area X phenomena. This is all speculation and opinion, of coarse. Food for thought, as it were.
First things first. How did NAWAC come to be in “Area X” in the first place? We are told that Alton Higgins, a biologist, Bigfoot enthusiast, and a member of BFRO at the time, was scouting around southeastern Oklahoma in the early 2000s because of previous sighting accounts. Here is NAWAC's report (page 10 of Monograph) on his endeavor (the highlighted comments are bolded by me): “After interviewing locals and receiving guidance from a retired forest service supervisor, Higgins and his team narrowed their search along a rocky, remote 'jeep trail' set among hundreds of thousands of acres of privately owned and government timberlands. After several days of encountering no other people and finding nothing of significance, the team discovered an anomalous series of humanoid tracks in a dried mud hole just off the trail that generally matched other descriptions of tracks reportedly made by the putative species. The tracks were complete with toes, and measured sixteen inches in length, seven inches at the ball, and four inches at the heel. This was enough to convince Higgins that the area was worthy of further investigation.” Here is NAWAC's account, written in 2007: http://woodape.org/reports/report/detail/457 More details from page 10 of NAWAC's report. “In May of 2001, Higgins made contact with a 'retired gentleman' who had built a cabin not far from where Higgins had discovered the tracks in the mud hole. The man told Higgins that he and his family stayed in the cabin a few times a year for several days at a time and that they often had disturbing experiences with a form of wildlife with which they were not familiar. Higgins was especially intrigued by the man’s anecdotes of 'strange occurrences,' 'strange, extremely loud vocalizations,' and rocks that were sometimes hurled 'from the nearby mountainside, occasionally even striking the roof of the cabin' (Higgins & Elliott, 2001, Background section). The man invited Higgins to stay in his cabin. Higgins accepted the invitation and after spending a night on-site, surveying the area, and interviewing other family members, Higgins decided the area was indeed 'worthy of an intense investigation' (Higgins & Elliott, 2001, Background section)." The “retired forest service sepervisor” and “retired gentleman” was Charles Branson. NAWAC members perhaps did not know at the time that Mr. Branson was claiming to be a Bigfoot enthusiast; if they did they do not mention it. Here is Branson commenting on Bigfoot for a television news broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYlMKAa1Og Higgins, being impressed with what he saw at Branson's site, decided to mount a projected week long stay at the location with a BFRO team. Here is his report on that stay: http://www.bfro.net/avevid/ouachita/opreport.asp So far, how can we intrepret the origin of NAWAC's research in Area X? To me, it looks like they were being set up by the property owner to have a Bigfoot experience. If the accounts they give of Branson's involvement are fully accurate, he made no claim to having knowledge of Bigfoot, only that there were strange anecdotal occurrences near his cabin. Remember, the cabin owner directed Higgins to the area, where Higgins almost immediately found tracks conveniently located along the road. Notice in the BFRO report, the cabin area was already arranged to suggest Bigfoot activity (the bent light, the mattress pulled out of a freezer used for storage) on their arrival. Notice too how the property owner did a misdirection by claiming such activity must have been the result of bears, and thereby allowing the team members to fortuitously impose their own interpretation (Bigfoot) on what they were looking at. (As an aside, it should be noted that the BFRO account has one of their members sleeping in his truck a couple of miles from the camp -- to possibly draw in a curious Bigfoot. He didn't stay all night because just before dawn logging trucks were rumbling down the dirt road. Logging trucks – two miles from Area X!) BFRO's shortened week in the area was less than compelling. But things purportedly heated up after they left the area, according to their report: “Postscript: In the next few weeks following the expedition, the BFRO received several independent reports of sasquatch activity near the study site. Observations submitted by witnesses included a hand print, footprints, suspected vocalizations, and a sighting. The sighting, made by a hunter retired from the military, was near the location of Simpson's encounter. The Oklahoma BFRO team intends to return to the study site.” We may ask: who was submitting the observations of “activity near the study site.” Branson? Branson's family members or friends? We know this much: the sighting “made by a hunter retired from the military” was from a relative of Branson's. To quote NAWAC: “A sighting report taken by Higgins in June 2002 also played a role in convincing him that the area surrounding the cabin site was habitat for a previously undescribed species. The individual who was interviewed for the report was a bow hunter and a relative of the 'retired gentleman' who owned the cabin. On October 27, 2001, the bow hunter had been hunting in a tree stand on the same mountain from which rocks were supposedly thrown, as asserted by the cabin owners, when he saw a black, chimp-like animal, 'three to four feet' in height, about sixty yards away up in a tree. The animal reportedly turned to look at the hunter before it quickly disappeared into dense foliage. The hunter told Higgins that what he saw reminded him of a chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). He also told Higgins that he had been a 'skeptic,' but now he knew that “something” was “going on” in the area.” (page 12 of M) |
11th March 2015, 09:07 PM | #451 |
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Meldrum spoke at NAWAC's last conference a year or so ago in Ft. Worth. Brown said Meldrum was invited to Area X but had not yet made plans to go.
It now seems, however, that Meldrum and John Green are trying to line up some prestige names to observe in Area X. My post somewhere above mentions that NAWAC is trying to bring aboard more mainstream scientists, especially if they are somewhat sasquatch friendly. |
11th March 2015, 09:35 PM | #452 |
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Let me speculate about Sharon Hill's neutral position concerning NAWAC. Let me say first that I do not agree with her: The report is not so strong as to require a neutral or agnostic position from a skeptic.
I think she is impressed by the people behind the report. These folks are not truck drivers doing weekend squatching. They are professionals with a wide degree of expertise, not all in relevant fields, but nevertheless serious appearing. Over the years, many different folks have been involved in this from college students to retired nurses to military men to wildlife biologists, a research microbiologist, private detective, clergyman, etc. This is not coming from a Dyer or Biscardi. |
11th March 2015, 11:16 PM | #453 |
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It turns out they've actually uploaded some of their trail cam efforts https://www.flickr.com/photos/tbrc/s...57623451529670. It's a shame there aren't any wood ape photos.
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12th March 2015, 04:10 AM | #454 |
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Nice work on the early timeline, Jerry. So the key players are Branson and Higgins: a retired forester and a guy who occasionally teaches "biology courses" in the Education Department of a hyper-Christian college that's fringe for Oklahoma. Are those two supposed to be supplying the scientifical chops that have caught the attention of Sharon Hill? Wingnut that he is, at least Meldrum is a real biologist, but I'm not gonna hold my breath for Sharon's endorsement of the Falcon Project.
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12th March 2015, 04:27 AM | #455 |
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There are no wood ape photos because there are no wood apes.
But according to Brian Brown when asked on Reddit why they haven't gotten an image of one "We haven't really been trying lately. We're focused on recording their behavioral traits and securing proof of their existence. In our collected opinion, a photo will never be "proof" of anything. We do practically nothing to try and capture one in an image." http://www.reddit.com/r/bigfoot/comm...ask_the_nawac/ |
12th March 2015, 05:36 AM | #456 |
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^Footer Kool-Aid! To me, there is no surer sign that someone is disingenuous in their claims of bigfoot than to not attempt to photograph them because a photo wouldn't "convince the skeptics."
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12th March 2015, 05:40 AM | #457 |
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If a game cam catches a photo of something, DNA is available in the vicinity.
When those biologists in CA got a photo of the Wolverine, they went out there and found like 25 poo samples within a week. This part about a "photo will never be 'proof'" is just a smokescreen for, they can't photograph a beast that is non existent. Another thing. When footers put out game cams, and the game cams go missing, it does not mean Bigfoot dismantled the camera and removed it. The cameras can probably be found in the residence of the person playing the hoax on the Footers. |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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12th March 2015, 05:48 AM | #458 |
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^^
The statement attributed to Brian Brown above would seem to reveal him in full BLAARG mode. How could a clear, high res picture not help their cause? |
12th March 2015, 06:00 AM | #459 |
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It's classic Brian Brown there are pages and pages of this on display at BFF (Bigfoot Fantasy w/Friends) along with Sunflower, Sasfooty, and our resident knower Chris right here.
Once they are comfortable jumping the shark on all scienctific protocol, ie bask in the glory of a BFF, blog, youtube, facebook fawning session....their "research" conclusions are validated by the masses. It's off to the races of glory and gold...consider that the bar of competency is Finding Bigfoot, Dyer, Biscardi, Munns, Meldrum it's not hard to see how someone falls down the rabbit hole. While I'm consider a denialist, scoffic, super skeptic my mind can be changed just show me the evidence that a 8-10', 500-800lb ape/monkey man exist in NA. Every piece I've seen so far including my own experiences can be kicked to the curb with a "most likely" reasonable alternative explanation. |
12th March 2015, 06:33 AM | #460 |
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12th March 2015, 06:42 AM | #461 |
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Branson is also the retired forest ranger who calls bigfoot " wonderful people ", "super smart" and that they can spiritually recognize people.
http://bigfootlives.blogspot.ca/2011...ouncement.html |
12th March 2015, 07:00 AM | #462 |
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12th March 2015, 07:26 AM | #463 |
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You sure....this is a group that claims bigfoot was running around in a tree and it snapped it off within 6' of the ground.... a 24" tree...they posted pictures of it.
They claim it leveraged a single tree branch in the canopy to snap the tree at the base...I'll go out on a limb here and say that was impossible. It was leverage...they got that right but it was wind load on all the branches in the canopy. What Sharon Hill needs to do is read some of her own positions on Bigfoot stories. Get control of her ego, emotions, and her potty mouth...while potty mouth talk is fun around the campfire and can be simulating in the bedroom, if one is trying to appear professional it's most unbecoming. Put herself in a sciencey frame of mind and examine this from a social construct pespective it's almost as fascinating as a monkey man running around NA. |
12th March 2015, 07:52 AM | #464 |
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Fascinating one can document numerous critters except for one the champion of hide and seek!
Oh and is this a Bigfoot Hunter Glamour shot nothing like playing army and don't get me wrong...I imagined myself a sniper a many a time taking out those terrorist deer reeking havoc on the countryside! Is it part of the package when you become a member....ok guys next week is photo day get your scruff on and your best bigfoot kit ready to go! |
12th March 2015, 08:01 AM | #465 |
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The odd thing about her post in this thread was the way it contained all the woo phrases we have come to love, "not skeptic enough, attacking the messenger, being personally insulting" and above all an air of superiority.
Anyone who does a 1800 turn can expect to be questioned about it, being not just defensive but attacking those who were formerly on your side raises huge red flags and any rational person can expect pushback. Silence breeds speculation. |
12th March 2015, 08:22 AM | #466 |
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It's very telling and for me indicative more of a profile that fits into some sort of Internet phenomenon.
She comes here insulting people...basically having a temper tantrum and storms off and yet numerous posters start off their post with "all due respect" what respect was she due when she makes a post like that? She lost all my respect and revealed herself here and on her own blog with statements that quite frankly reminds me of stuff a teenager would say, not a scientist. |
12th March 2015, 08:33 AM | #467 |
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12th March 2015, 08:35 AM | #468 |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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12th March 2015, 08:38 AM | #469 |
Show me the monkey!
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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
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12th March 2015, 08:43 AM | #470 |
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Indeed.....when I go to Bigfoot central I'm going to be rocking safety yellow from head to toe...you know for safety...a tin foil hat so bigfoot can't read my intentions and of course carrying my AR with all the appropriate do-dads for hunting Bigfeets...can't wait to see you guys on the trail!!
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12th March 2015, 08:45 AM | #471 |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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12th March 2015, 09:11 AM | #472 |
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It really doesn't matter what you wear. If the Wood Ape wants to find you, to huck rocks which land fairly close to you, it will find you. It can land large rocks, very close to you, there is no beast more accurate at landing rocks near a target.
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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12th March 2015, 09:11 AM | #473 |
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Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
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12th March 2015, 09:50 AM | #474 |
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12th March 2015, 09:57 AM | #475 |
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12th March 2015, 10:03 AM | #476 |
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Hey. At least they are recognizing these elusive athletes, with trading cards.
Dogderbek really made a great effort in 2012, with 49 consecutive near misses, without actually hitting one target, breaking the record of 43, set by Chappy, the year before. |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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12th March 2015, 10:09 AM | #477 |
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WARNING - DO NOT FEED THE BLAARGers! |
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12th March 2015, 11:14 AM | #478 |
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And puppies!
http://bigfootencounters.com/biology/fusch.htm Go down to "Other Reports" and the line that starts with, "Margie, an Anglo woman......" |
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Normal in a weird way. |
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12th March 2015, 11:44 AM | #479 |
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12th March 2015, 11:47 AM | #480 |
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https://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2015/...od-ape-report/
A new response from Sharon Hill. Maybe I missed the part where she answered what was compelling about the report. Please tell me if I did. |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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