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Tags D.I.D. , Dr. Phil , false memory syndrome , Judy Byington , mind control , mpd , multiple personalities , recovered memory therapy , satanic ritual abuse

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Old 24th March 2015, 08:37 PM   #2081
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Originally Posted by Son of Inigo View Post
So just how are memories held neurologically?

Lovingly, tenderly, in the palm of the brain's hand.

Seriously, that's a question LI proponents should be willing and able to answer. It might be worth writing their developer/contact person, Peggy Pace (who can be reached here: ppace@LifespanIntegration.com ) to ask that. If approached gently, there's a chance she might even respond. Then again, it might be more satisfying to make your skepticism obvious. You could pass along a link to this thread.

I'll leave you with this work of art from Ms Pace's informative article, The Neuroscience of Lifespan Integration Therapy:

This diagram represents a fragmented self system of separated neural networks. There is no solid core or ‘center’ of the self.
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Old 25th March 2015, 07:36 PM   #2082
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Lovingly, tenderly, in the palm of the brain's hand.

Seriously, that's a question LI proponents should be willing and able to answer. It might be worth writing their developer/contact person, Peggy Pace (who can be reached here: ppace@LifespanIntegration.com ) to ask that. If approached gently, there's a chance she might even respond. Then again, it might be more satisfying to make your skepticism obvious. You could pass along a link to this thread.

I'll leave you with this work of art from Ms Pace's informative article, The Neuroscience of Lifespan Integration Therapy:

This diagram represents a fragmented self system of separated neural networks. There is no solid core or ‘center’ of the self.
http://i.imgur.com/gAhZYfC.jpg
Isn't that the logo of the Intergalactic Trans-planetary Olympics?
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Old 26th March 2015, 08:05 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Isn't that the logo of the Intergalactic Trans-planetary Olympics?

No. It's missing the infrared circle.
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Old 5th May 2015, 06:47 AM   #2084
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Mercy Ministries: The Wild West of Recovered Memory Therapy

Hey JRE-- er, ISers, please consider reading and signing the petition linked at the top of this page:

The Devil and Mercy Ministries: A Conversation with Chelsea Darhower

To my knowledge, Mercy Ministries hasn't been mentioned here, or perhaps only in passing. They are generally upstaged by places like Castlewood Treatment Center, which was getting a lot of publicity with the lawsuits filed against them.

Mercy Ministries combines the worst of faith-based malpractice with the worst of the Recovered Memory techniques. They are keen to accept applicants who are diagnosed with DID, not because it will guarantee them years of steady income with long-term treatment, but because the founder, Nancy Alcorn is obsessed with "deliverance sessions" (casting out demons) and she believes (and hires staff who agree with her) that the "alters" are demons. This gets her a lot of traction among the Pentecostal sect and among many Christians who still believe in such things, and think shes performing some miraculous service. Many of the residents also leave having "recovered" memories of "extreme abuse", Ritual Abuse, or "memories" of having been a victim of human trafficking. Repressed/recovered memories of human trafficking is replacing repressed memories of Satanic Ritual Abuse in these circles.

Unlike places like Castlewood, Mercy Ministries is not an accredited, licensed mental health care facility. They are, in fact, listed as a charity. While Castlewood at least has some standards they must adhere to, Mercy Ministries doesn't even have that -- there is no oversight at all, and the residents who leave more broken than they arrived are left with no recourse.

Please take a moment to read, or at least skim, the conversation with Chelsea Darhower, former Mercy Ministries resident, and consider signing the petition to the Governor of Tennessee requesting that he investigate and hold Mercy to some standard of practice (or better, simply shut them down).
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Old 5th May 2015, 09:16 AM   #2085
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Signed.

Thanks for posting the link.
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Old 5th May 2015, 05:10 PM   #2086
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Signed. The comments from the signers - both people who were "treated" at Mercy Ministries as well as their family - are heart wrenching.
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Old 5th May 2015, 08:28 PM   #2087
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
From an open letter to Dr Phil by Douglas Mesner at Examiner:

http://www.examiner.com/article/jour...-health-menace





Just this week, Dr Phil was promoting the use of psychics in missing persons cases. Now this?!

The man is a menace, alright. Disgusting.
Him, Dr. Oz, Montel Williams - and so many more. All slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools.
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Old 6th May 2015, 06:20 AM   #2088
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Xterra and ddt, heartfelt thanks to both of you.

Yes, in any write-up on Mercy Ministries where parents and former residents comment, one is bound to see the most heart-wrenching accounts

As an aside, since the formation of False Memory Facebook group, it's been an interesting and rather heartwarming experience to see so many religious people, many of them devout, so grateful and appreciative of the skeptics there who are interested in their plight and want to help them get justice. When the group was new, most of the (primarily religious) false memory retractors and the families who lost their children/spouses/siblings quickly became aware that a significant number in the group were nonbelievers and skeptics, but beyond a few civil discussions here and there, it has never been an issue. The conversations don't devolve into religion or atheism bashing. For those families, the experience has changed their view of atheists and skeptics in a positive way.
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:47 PM   #2089
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Old 10th May 2015, 09:53 PM   #2090
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Him, Dr. Oz, Montel Williams - and so many more. All slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools.
It bears noting that the article linked in the post you quoted was written before the show in question aired. In the show as it eventually aired, Dr. Phil projects an air of cautious skepticism of Judy's claims, and puts challenging questions to her at least twice. As a result the audience audibly disapproves of Judy's control over her victim's money. Judy looks around nervously as her credibility is questioned and undermined on national television. It's a pretty sweet moment.

Whether Dr. Phil deserves the branding of "slime that should be trodden underfoot or jailed for life for the idiocies they promote to capture their audiences of inept, incredulous, incompetent fools" is an open question, but from a reasoned perspective he did nothing objectionable in this particulat instance, beyond allowing Judy to appear on his show.
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:45 AM   #2091
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Thanks, Vortigern99!
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Old 15th May 2015, 09:08 AM   #2092
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Signed.
Thank you, Orphia

Fuelair, as others have noted, the Dr. Phil show turned out better than expected, and the fallout eventually prompted Judy Byington to mimic Doug with her own poorly-written Open Letter to Dr. Phil.

Having said that, I tend to agree with you about talk show hosts in general. They had a significant role in instigating the Satanic Panic the first time around, and it's disgraceful how many hack journalists are still giving positive press to charlatans (Teal Scott, aka Teal Swan, for example) who claim Satanic Ritual Abuse.

Here's one of Teal Scott's interviews with a FOX/ABC affiliate:
https://youtu.be/B1CxV_nISyE
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Old 15th May 2015, 12:22 PM   #2093
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Having said that, I tend to agree with you about talk show hosts in general. They had a significant role in instigating the Satanic Panic the first time around, and it's disgraceful how many hack journalists are still giving positive press to charlatans (Teal Scott, aka Teal Swan, for example) who claim Satanic Ritual Abuse.
Don't forget Geraldo Rivera who still has a job as a reporter to this day (almost three decades later).
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Old 15th May 2015, 11:35 PM   #2094
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I don't buy into the quoted material in the OP, however, there is such a thing as Satanism. And Satanists idolize and worship the Devil just as other religions deities are worshipped by their adherents.

Are they going to do extreme counterculture stuff, like weird ass perverse rituals? Yeah. Do they all? No, probably not. But just as we see in all religions, there is a certain percentage of the ideological community who take their beliefs very, very seriously.
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Old 15th May 2015, 11:43 PM   #2095
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Do you have evidence of such rituals being practiced? And when I mean such rituals, I am not talking about naked dancing around a fire. I am talking about actual perverse stuff, virgin/infant sacrifice and such.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:24 AM   #2096
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This one will get the Satanic ritual people going:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296682
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Old 5th August 2015, 06:17 PM   #2097
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Originally Posted by godless dave View Post
I don't know about that, but there have been plenty of studies showing that recovered "memories" are often fictional.

The recovered memory hysteria keeps on coming back. I suspect most of these are based on fictitious memory.


Now if Doctor Phil would only have come out against the Catholic priests, there would not be so much objection to these revelations.

I conjecture that a lot of this sexual abuse priest outrage is also based fictitious memory. There is more repressed anger at the Catholic church than repressed memories. People are being goaded to remember sexual abuse that sometimes didn't happened.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church. Further, I know that there has been a steady background of sexual abuse all through the Churches history. The celibacy custom amplifies the sexual abuse singal among clergy.

However, I have serious doubt that there has been more abuse than in the past. A sceptic could ask why all these repressed memories are surface now. It seems to me that the 'repressed memory' hysteria comes back in different forms.

No sooner than those alien abduction stories get mainstreamed but the Satanic cult stories start. Only a decade after the public gets bored with Satanic cults, then men start remembering the abuses of their priest.

I have no doubt that some of these 'anecdotes' are based on some reality. However, memories get distorted as well as repressed. The anecdotes get so twisted that the truth is lost.

The irony is that the Roman Catholic church pioneered the sexual abuse hysteria. The Roman Catholic church invented the Satanic cult as a tool of repression. They and the Protestants burnt many women on the basis of a repressed 'memory', often released by torture. It is ironic that many Roman Catholic priests are being persecuted now with as little evidence as when witch trials were trendy. It is both a miscarriage of justice and a form of justice that priests are now the victims of hysteria.

Anyway, I think there should be more work on recognition of abuse while it is happening. There should be more emphasis on preventing a pattern of abuse then in punishing supposed malefactors. 'Repressed memories' often acquire mistaken targets for justice.

Repressed memories should not be solicited. However, I think parents should pay more attention to what their children say in the here and now.

Anyone else see the movie 'Doubt'?
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:20 PM   #2098
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and, signed!!
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:30 PM   #2099
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
The recovered memory hysteria keeps on coming back. I suspect most of these are based on fictitious memory.


Now if Doctor Phil would only have come out against the Catholic priests, there would not be so much objection to these revelations.

I conjecture that a lot of this sexual abuse priest outrage is also based fictitious memory. There is more repressed anger at the Catholic church than repressed memories. People are being goaded to remember sexual abuse that sometimes didn't happened.

I am no fan of the Catholic Church. Further, I know that there has been a steady background of sexual abuse all through the Churches history. The celibacy custom amplifies the sexual abuse singal among clergy.

However, I have serious doubt that there has been more abuse than in the past. A sceptic could ask why all these repressed memories are surface now. It seems to me that the 'repressed memory' hysteria comes back in different forms.

No sooner than those alien abduction stories get mainstreamed but the Satanic cult stories start. Only a decade after the public gets bored with Satanic cults, then men start remembering the abuses of their priest.

I have no doubt that some of these 'anecdotes' are based on some reality. However, memories get distorted as well as repressed. The anecdotes get so twisted that the truth is lost.

The irony is that the Roman Catholic church pioneered the sexual abuse hysteria. The Roman Catholic church invented the Satanic cult as a tool of repression. They and the Protestants burnt many women on the basis of a repressed 'memory', often released by torture. It is ironic that many Roman Catholic priests are being persecuted now with as little evidence as when witch trials were trendy. It is both a miscarriage of justice and a form of justice that priests are now the victims of hysteria.

Anyway, I think there should be more work on recognition of abuse while it is happening. There should be more emphasis on preventing a pattern of abuse then in punishing supposed malefactors. 'Repressed memories' often acquire mistaken targets for justice.

Repressed memories should not be solicited. However, I think parents should pay more attention to what their children say in the here and now.

Anyone else see the movie 'Doubt'?
As far as I know, we are not usually talking about repressed memories with these cases. That would be one huge difference (not that it couldn't happen, of course).

As for your doubts regarding there being more sexual abuse by priests now than in the past, I also have my doubts about there being more autistic children now than in the past. The reason for the apparent discrepancies are similar. Autism spectrum disorder diagnostic criteria are simply broader now than they used to be years ago (as well as there simply being greater awareness). Likewise, more people are speaking up now than used to be the case before. 40 years ago (and sooner, for that matter) people simply didn't speak up. Most of the time, nothing was done beyond the making of distasteful jokes about it and looking the other way. That doesn't mean that it happened any less.

Jimmy Dore at this video does a good job of representing the attitudes back then including those of the adults.

It's not just about the signal; it's also about how you are looking for the signal.
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Old 8th August 2015, 06:15 PM   #2100
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
As far as I know, we are not usually talking about repressed memories with these cases. That would be one huge difference (not that it couldn't happen, of course).

As for your doubts regarding there being more sexual abuse by priests now than in the past, I also have my doubts about there being more autistic children now than in the past. The reason for the apparent discrepancies are similar. Autism spectrum disorder diagnostic criteria are simply broader now than they used to be years ago (as well as there simply being greater awareness). Likewise, more people are speaking up now than used to be the case before. 40 years ago (and sooner, for that matter) people simply didn't speak up. Most of the time, nothing was done beyond the making of distasteful jokes about it and looking the other way. That doesn't mean that it happened any less.

Jimmy Dore at this video does a good job of representing the attitudes back then including those of the adults.

It's not just about the signal; it's also about how you are looking for the signal.
The liberal media and law enforcement agencies are obviously in on the conspiracy. For the last fifty years at least, there have been no stories with hard evidence about sexual abuse and pedophilia from pagans including Satanists. However, it seems like every day that we here a story about sexual abuse concerning Catholic priests, Protestant ministers, Jewish Rabbis and of course Moslem clerics.

Hardly anything about sexual abuse from the Eastern religions, either. Yes, there have been some. Gurus with a tantric belief system, etc. With those few exceptions, almost no sexual abuse from the heathens.

It is a miracle!
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Old 11th August 2015, 12:09 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
Hardly anything about sexual abuse from the Eastern religions, either. Yes, there have been some. Gurus with a tantric belief system, etc. With those few exceptions, almost no sexual abuse from the heathens.
Not giving tantra any credence whatsoever, the reason for this is probably that consensuality (is that a word?) Is a very important part of the "philosophy". So since there should be no coercion the question of abuse is moot. On a more secular note...probably makes for some kinky fun times.
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Old 11th August 2015, 08:44 AM   #2102
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Not giving tantra any credence whatsoever, the reason for this is probably that consensuality (is that a word?) Is a very important part of the "philosophy". So since there should be no coercion the question of abuse is moot. On a more secular note...probably makes for some kinky fun times.
I don't know. As they become more and more popular, there does seem to be an increased probability of sexual improprieties. I guess the difference is that in the West you don't have to make it big to be a sex offender (I think the hypothesis that the same thing could be at play as in the West has to be considered, though: it may also be about how you are looking for the signal). Presently, in this country (USA) the one in the public eye seems to be Bikram Choudhury (though you could argue he's not a religious guru) with various sexual harassment and sexual assault allegations. Apparently, many Bikram associated studios are removing their association with the man because of this.

And, by the way, in India, in common usage, "tantra" seems to refer to the more "witchy" types of folk, not necessarily to anything sexual.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 10:14 AM   #2103
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Just this week, Dr Phil was promoting the use of psychics in missing persons cases. Now this?!

The man is a menace, alright. Disgusting.
Okay, no one can claim Dr. Phil is a good Christian!


Witchcraft is a belief that predates Christianity. Animists, for example, often believe in demonic possession and supernatural curses. Murdering/executing witches started among pagans. In fact, the Church in early medieval times condemned witch accusers. Many Christian kings and priests condemned the persecution of alleged witches and sorcerers.

Witchcraft ‘murders’ are quite common in aboriginal, pagan peoples even today. Many witchcraft murders occur in animist communities. The concept of witchcraft is often associated with the concept of jinx. If a people near a particular person are suffering misfortune, then the people near by will try to kill that person to get rid of the ‘curse’. The tribe may not even think the jinx does it on purpose. If the person didn’t plan it, then he is possessed. ‘Possessed people’ get killed, too. When witch hysteria starts to spread, the Church tends to hop on this animist bandwagon

The tide turned in the late medieval period. Towards the very end of the medieval period, just previous to the ‘Enlightenment’, there was a witch hysteria that by far exceeded anything witchcraft hysteria by pagans. The churches of the day, both Catholic AND Protestant, promoted the trial, imprisonment, torture and execution of witches for supernatural crimes. With the help of the Church, sincere Christians burned and hanged tens of thousands of people on the basis of magical crimes.

The Christian supported persecution far exceeded anything done before maybe because advances in technology and secular. The ‘burning times’ occurred very soon after Gutenbergs ‘invention’ of the printing press. Books on how to find and torment witches were widely circulated. The invention of a very efficient printing press (not the first printing press) impacted society much like the internet does today.


Further, the law was purposely slanted to find witches. The secular laws were twisted so that someone could be condemned for witchcraft for evidence that had been previously unacceptable. Evidence could be the testimony of someone being tortured. Evidence could be someone else bad dream. This started a chain reaction that soon generated tens of thousands of convictions.

I suspect that much of the resurgence in ‘witchcraft’ accusations is being driven by the Internet. Again, churches and mosques are jumping on the’witch-hunt’ bandwagon. I don’t think this will get very far unless the secular law starts to accommodate the witch hunters.

There were also translations of the Bible which talked about witches. There isn’t a word in Hebrew that precisely corresponds to the supernatural witch. The Bible condemns psychics, which are people who openly claim to have supernatural powers. The Bible condemns pagan priests, who claimed supernatural powers. However, this concept was more like heresy than supernatural witchcraft.

Control of the weather was seen more as proof that the prophets were talking to God. In the Bible, the Prophets seem to have a direct in with the god of the storm. Ahab persecuted Elijah because he thought Elijah caused the drought. Ahab was pagan, accusing Elijah of witchcraft. It was the God of the Hebrews who was thought of as a ‘Devil’, not Baal of Tyre. Elijah didn’t believe that the priests of Baal had magic powers. It was the Hebrew Prophets who were accused of supernatural witchcraft, not the pagan priests.

Someone should tell the religious leaders.


Make no mistake, though. The belief in supernatural witchcraft is very fungible. Christians can easily


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt
‘Christianisation and Early Middle Ages[edit]
The Councils of Elvira (306), Ancyra (314), and Trullo (692) imposed certain ecclesiastical penances for devil-worship. This mild approach represented the view of the Church for many centuries. The general desire of the Catholic Church's clergy to check fanaticism about witchcraft and necromancy is shown in the decrees of the Council of Paderborn, which, in 785, explicitly outlawed condemning people as witches and condemned to death anyone who burnt a witch.
The Lombard code of 643 states:
"Let nobody presume to kill a foreign serving maid or female servant as a witch, for it is not possible, nor ought to be believed by Christian minds."[15]
This conforms to the teachings of the Canon Episcopi of circa 900 AD (alleged to date from 314 AD), which, following the thoughts of Augustine of Hippo, stated that witchcraft did not exist and that to teach that it was a reality was, itself, false and heterodox teaching. The Council of Frankfurt in 794, called by Charlemagne, was also very explicit in condemning "the persecution of alleged witches and wizards", calling the belief in witchcraft "superstitious", and ordering the death penalty for those who presumed to burn witches.[16]
Other examples include an Irish synod in 800,[17] and a sermon by Agobard of Lyons (810).[18]
King Kálmán (Coloman) of Hungary, in Decree 57 of his First Legislative Book (published in 1100 AD), banned witch hunting because he said, "witches do not exist".[19] The "Decretum" of Burchard, Bishop of Worms (about 1020), and especially its 19th book, often known separately as the "Corrector", is another work of great importance. Burchard was writing against the superstitious belief in magical potions, for instance, that may produce impotence or abortion. These were also condemned by several Church Fathers.[20] But he altogether rejected the possibility of many of the alleged powers with which witches were popularly credited. Such, for example, were nocturnal riding through the air, the changing of a person's disposition from love to hate, the control of thunder, rain, and sunshine, the transformation of a man into an animal, the intercourse of incubi and succubi with human beings and other such superstitions. Not only the attempt to practice such things, but the very belief in their possibility, is treated by Burchard as false and superstitious.
Pope Gregory VII, in 1080, wrote to King Harald III of Denmark forbidding witches to be put to death upon presumption of their having caused storms or failure of crops or pestilence. Neither were these the only examples of an effort to prevent unjust suspicion to which such poor creatures might be exposed.[note 1]
On many different occasions, ecclesiastics who spoke with authority did their best to disabuse the people of their superstitious belief in witchcraft. This, for instance, is the general purport of the book, Contra insulsam vulgi opinionem de grandine et tonitruis ("Against the foolish belief of the common sort concerning hail and thunder"), written by Agobard (d. 841), Archbishop of Lyons.[21] A comparable situation in Russia is suggested in a sermon by Serapion of Vladimir (written in 1274/5), where the popular superstition of witches causing crop failures is denounced.[22]’’


http://www.pctii.org/cyberj/cyberj10/onyinah.html
‘As was done in the past, protection from witchcraft activities has become a common concern.* Formerly such protection was sought from the priests of the gods or from sorcerers and medicine men.* From the early part of the twentieth century, however, a variety of exorcistic activities (anti-witchcraft shrine) have dominated African states.* Even when the colonial regimes suppressed witchcraft activities because they thought they hampered progress, they re-emerged within the Ingenious African Churches and later in a form of movement within the classical Pentecostal churches.[if !supportFootnotes][13][endif]* As soon as one of these movements expends itself, another of a similar nature springs up with a larger following.** As a result, at present, almost all churches include exorcistic activities, referred to as ‘deliverance’[if !supportFootnotes][14][endif] in their programmes, since failure to do so amounts to losing members to churches that include such activities.* Thus some scholars now observe the ‘Pentecostalisation’ of Christianity in Africa.[if !supportFootnotes][15][endif]’
*
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Old 3rd January 2016, 07:24 PM   #2104
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Recovered Memory Therapy used in troubled teen facilities

Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
Lifespan Integration is an example of one of the newer Repressed/Recovered Memory therapeutic models.

"LI is body-based, and combines active imagination, the juxtaposition of ego states in time, and a visual time line of memories to facilitate neural integration and rapid healing. During the integrating phase of the protocol, the client ‘views’ a memory image for each year of his or her life. The Lifespan Integration technique causes memories to surface spontaneously, and because of how memories are held neurologically, each memory which surfaces is related to the emotional theme or issue being targeted. [...]

Excerpt of a client's review of LI therapy and the clinician who practiced it:

Some of you might be interested in knowing that Norm Thibault (scroll down a bit), formerly of Liahona Academy and Cross Creek Programs is practicing Lifespan Integration on at-risk adolescents at Three Points Center in Utah.

Three Points Center looks like an ordinary, reputable treatment facility, but it is part of a network of abusive programs (including Liahona) that make up the Troubled Teen Industry. It's located at the site of the former Cross Creek Programs which was shut down due to abuse allegations and lawsuits, with key staff members from Cross Creek and from other facilities in the same network. This practice -- opening a "new" program after one has been shut down, and selecting staff from the same group of people who work within the network -- is extremely common among these facilities.

Three Points Center, like many other Troubled Teen facilities, also subscribes to the Reactive Attachment Disorder diagnosis, which is perhaps even more highly criticized than Dissociative Identity Disorder, and the notably dangerous Attachment Therapy. (The horrific beating endured by Bobby Vernon, which left him in a vegetative state, was a direct result of his foster parents' use of attachment therapy and their rabid belief in Satanic Ritual Abuse)

Jean Mercer, an advocate fighting against dangerous forms of therapy, had this to say about RAD:

(source)

Originally Posted by Jean Mercer
"The material in this clip conveys to the public a view of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) that belongs to 'fringe' therapists and is not shared by professionals with serious training in psychology," Mercer wrote ABC. "In addition, this view has been used to support the use of potentially harmful interventions with children ... The opening scenes of the clip appear to show a method called 'holding therapy' or 'attachment therapy', which was strongly rejected in 2006 by a joint task force of the American Psychological Association (APA) and the American Professional Society on Abuse of Children (APSAC). This method has been associated with child deaths and injuries."

Also, in 2014 Trinity Hunt Partners, owners of the notorious Castlewood Treatment Center, acquired Family Help and Wellness, a company which currently owns 11 Troubled Teen/Tough Love facilities, many of which are confirmed as abusive.

A bit more about that in this post.
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Last edited by Dismember; 3rd January 2016 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Fixed a link
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Old 6th January 2016, 12:15 AM   #2105
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Thank you, Dismember, for your work trying to bring this abuse to light.
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Old 7th January 2016, 10:07 PM   #2106
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thank you, Dismember, for your work trying to bring this abuse to light.
I appreciate the kind words, Orphia. I know we all want to see abuse, in all its forms, eradicated.

What really drew me in were the striking parallels between that problem and this one. The same elements that got me interested in this issue also exist in the Tough Love/Troubled Teen industry. I see it as a variation of the same problem.

Edited to add that the former program residents I spoke with were very familiar with Mercy Multiplied (known as "Mercy Ministries" until a few months ago). Apparently Mercy Multiplied is pretty widely known and recognized as part of this abusive industry.
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Old 7th January 2016, 11:05 PM   #2107
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
No I didn't. I didn't think it would do any good. The lack of response to your email seems to be confirmation of my opinion.

There appears to be too much ambiguity about Haussler's position, and too much doubt about whether Mark Shurtleff himself would be willing to make a statement, which is what I think would be required. Such an appeal requires an unequivocal. irrefutable argument and statement of fact.*

in addition, the dismissal by the Department of Professional Licensing of the complaints against Byington weakens any such argument. [...]
Bringing back this little blast from the past (::sigh:: if only I had a time machine) to point out that, 3 years later, I've since learned that Mark Shurtleff never met a scam he didn't like. It's no surprise that Byington is able to get away with so much mischief in Utah.

The Salty Droid, a blogger who investigates MLM scams (and uses some colorful language, so this might be considered NSFW) has been calling out Shurtleff's shenanigans for quite awhile: Mark Shurtleff: Orange is the New Green

...including Shurtleff's role in the Troubled Teen Industry: Mark Shurtleff: For the Children

ETA: The Droid's excellent work in calling out scammers makes him a frequent target for complaints, and his website goes down on a fairly regular basis. Here are archives of the posts I linked above (minus the embedded video): Orange is the New Green, For the Children
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Last edited by Dismember; 7th January 2016 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Added archived webpages in case the original website goes offline
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Old 7th January 2016, 11:25 PM   #2108
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travel to the developing world, in Indonesia witchcraft is a real thing in daily life, whether you are Hindu, Muslim or Christian,
drives me NUTS
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Old 8th January 2016, 02:01 AM   #2109
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Witchcraft is a capital offence in Saudi Arabia. People are regularly executed for it.
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/0...-saudi-arabia/
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Old 8th January 2016, 09:26 AM   #2110
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
I've since learned that Mark Shurtleff never met a scam he didn't like. It's no surprise that Byington is able to get away with so much mischief in Utah.
Yeah, I have a special dislike for Shurtleff. During his tenure the Utah AG's office was generally considered a joke.
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Old 7th June 2016, 02:59 PM   #2111
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2016/06/the-satanic-temple-sent-observers-to-a-ritual-abuse-survivors-conference-this-is-what-they-found/


Quote:
Combatting child sexual abuse and human trafficking are unquestionably noble causes. It is for this reason that Grey Faction is so offended and distraught at seeing efforts toward such being co-opted by self-aggrandizing conspiracists. Predictably, when one calls “********” on lunatic claims of a Satanic mind-control conspiracy, the believers in such conspiracies conveniently cry out that in doing so, one is casting aspersions upon abuse victims. In this way, the conspiracists use victims of abuse as human shields against critical inquiry into their irrational, harmful claims.

While it is disturbing that Rape Crisis Counselling Centers would be party to propagating the lunacy put forward by Survivorship, it is nothing short of outrageous that licensed Mental Health professionals are granted Continuing Education Units for attending Survivorship conferences. Our agencies of Mental Health oversight are failing us dramatically.
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Old 9th June 2016, 03:37 PM   #2112
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
This article, and the readers' comments, convinced me that there actually exists a conspiracy network that traumatizes their victims. It's called the ISSTD. One of these clowns participates in the comments. The greatest retort: "it ducks like a quack".
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Old 15th June 2016, 11:41 PM   #2113
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I see Neil Brick has posted a "Survivorship" movie on his Facebook page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BONGdkCuSiw

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Can't stomach his bilge at the moment but maybe someone braver than me can watch it (12 minutes).
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Old 22nd June 2016, 11:33 AM   #2114
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It truly is an outrage that anyone can get continuing education credits for attending one of these conferences.

13 signatures left on the petition to reach 1000!


Quote:
For his part, Neil Brick has offered a "rebuttal" to our petition against him, which, unfortunately for him, only serves to affirm everything we've claimed to begin with. For instance, after objecting to our use of words such as "paranoid" to describe his narrative of Satanic Ritual Abuse and Government Mind-Control, Neil Brick goes on to explain that the electromagnetic beam-blocking hats his conference were selling were "sold for health reasons," and that Grey Faction blew "this one thing totally out of proportion to attack and insult the [...] ritual abuse conferences."

Quote:
Neil Brick claims our complaint about him is "factually inaccurate," yet he doesn't actually contest a single fact. Rather, he does his pathetic best to justify his lunacy. For example, in reply to the fact that he claims to have raped and killed while under the influence of mind-control, Neil Brick explains (referring to himself, as always, in the third person), "Neil Brick does write about being forced as a small child to kill in a cult. This was against his will and many others have written about being forced to kill as children in cults and gangs." He goes on to assure readers, "It is incorrect to extrapolate this further as an issue of moral character or adult competency." However, when Neil Brick claims that he would rape and kill under the influence of mind-control, and when he expresses fear that people merely touching their faces today can "trigger" his mind-control programming, his adult competency most certainly must be brought to question.


P.S. LOL at the shielding socks picture on the main page!
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Old 25th June 2016, 09:44 PM   #2115
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Quote:
Combatting child sexual abuse and human trafficking are unquestionably noble causes. It is for this reason that Grey Faction is so offended and distraught at seeing efforts toward such being co-opted by self-aggrandizing conspiracists. Predictably, when one calls “********” on lunatic claims of a Satanic mind-control conspiracy, the believers in such conspiracies conveniently cry out that in doing so, one is casting aspersions upon abuse victims. In this way, the conspiracists use victims of abuse as human shields against critical inquiry into their irrational, harmful claims.
Quite some time ago in this very thread I think I brought up the existence of this exact problem as I encountered it in a child abuse survivor support group I once spent some time with. This was not a group dedicated to satanic cults, ritual abuse, alien abductions or any such thing - it was strictly a child abuse support group. The entire purpose of such a setting is to provide a place for people to tell their stories and otherwise express themselves on relevant topics without worrying about being "judged", or made to feel their honesty was being questioned. It is, I've come to think, an irreparable vulnerability by nature of such groups and programs that occasionally people will post things they've read about cults and government sexual abuse conspiracies, or highly suspect "treatments" and "therapies", and these things go largely unchallenged because no abuse survivor wants to be the one to risk coming off looking like they're being a jerk toward another abuse survivor.
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Old 25th June 2016, 10:55 PM   #2116
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
... It is, I've come to think, an irreparable vulnerability by nature of such groups and programs that occasionally people will post things they've read about cults and government sexual abuse conspiracies, or highly suspect "treatments" and "therapies", and these things go largely unchallenged because no abuse survivor wants to be the one to risk coming off looking like they're being a jerk toward another abuse survivor.
That is sad, for truth likes nothing more than a challenge to better reveal its plumage.
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Old 27th June 2016, 07:42 AM   #2117
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The entire purpose of such a setting is to provide a place for people to tell their stories and otherwise express themselves on relevant topics without worrying about being "judged", or made to feel their honesty was being questioned. It is, I've come to think, an irreparable vulnerability by nature of such groups and programs that occasionally people will post things they've read about cults and government sexual abuse conspiracies, or highly suspect "treatments" and "therapies", and these things go largely unchallenged because no abuse survivor wants to be the one to risk coming off looking like they're being a jerk toward another abuse survivor.
This is why people promoting the "safe space" and "trigger warning" movements have far overstepped by trying to insist on such restrictions and censorship in public interactions. The "safe space" concept was, and is, valuable in a therapeutic group setting where vulnerable people are sorting through issues and/or trying to heal from psychologically traumatic events. I doubt anyone would deny that such "safe" places are sometimes necessary and helpful. In that context it is appropriate to suspend judgement and keep skepticism to ourselves.

When deeply misguided social justice advocates attempt to encroach on public discourse and even legal investigative procedures by proclaiming that skepticism and a thorough investigation "re-victimizes" accusers or self-identified victims, they leave the door wide open for the Neil Bricks and Alison Millers of the world.
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Old 2nd July 2016, 06:20 PM   #2118
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
This is why people promoting the "safe space" and "trigger warning" movements have far overstepped by trying to insist on such restrictions and censorship in public interactions. The "safe space" concept was, and is, valuable in a therapeutic group setting where vulnerable people are sorting through issues and/or trying to heal from psychologically traumatic events. I doubt anyone would deny that such "safe" places are sometimes necessary and helpful. In that context it is appropriate to suspend judgement and keep skepticism to ourselves.

When deeply misguided social justice advocates attempt to encroach on public discourse and even legal investigative procedures by proclaiming that skepticism and a thorough investigation "re-victimizes" accusers or self-identified victims, they leave the door wide open for the Neil Bricks and Alison Millers of the world.
QFT.
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Old 13th July 2016, 06:54 AM   #2119
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Hi all. I actually joined this forum because of this thread. I can't remember exactly what google search led me to this, might have been sylvia browne's son, but just spent a week reading everything. First question, is the facebook group still up and active? 2nd, did Robert ever do the Q&A he was planning? Are there any interesting updates? Is the crazy argument still going on over at Amazon?
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Old 13th July 2016, 07:05 AM   #2120
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Originally Posted by Dismember View Post
This is why people promoting the "safe space" and "trigger warning" movements have far overstepped by trying to insist on such restrictions and censorship in public interactions. The "safe space" concept was, and is, valuable in a therapeutic group setting where vulnerable people are sorting through issues and/or trying to heal from psychologically traumatic events. I doubt anyone would deny that such "safe" places are sometimes necessary and helpful. In that context it is appropriate to suspend judgement and keep skepticism to ourselves.

When deeply misguided social justice advocates attempt to encroach on public discourse and even legal investigative procedures by proclaiming that skepticism and a thorough investigation "re-victimizes" accusers or self-identified victims, they leave the door wide open for the Neil Bricks and Alison Millers of the world.
Salud! Well said.
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