Pandora Papers

Hlafordlaes · 3rd October 2021, 10:18 AM

The Guardian: Pandora papers: biggest ever leak of offshore data exposes financial secrets of rich and powerful

Quote:

Millions of documents reveal offshore deals and assets of more than 100 billionaires, 30 world leaders and 300 public officials

The secret deals and hidden assets of some of the world’s richest and most powerful people have been revealed in the biggest trove of leaked offshore data in history.

I am tickled pink. What a blow to so many and so deserving.

Gord_in_Toronto · 3rd October 2021, 10:52 AM

Here in Canada the Toronto Star is already on top of things (they are a member of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists).

https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...bal-elite.html

Even if much of this is legal, the ethics and appearance of manipulating your money to avoid taxes should be embarrassing to some. No matter what their lawyers have say.

theprestige · 3rd October 2021, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

What a blow to so many and so deserving.

I predict that the actual blow, if any, will amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Legal consequences will be minimal, and electoral consequences will be nil.

Dr.Sid · 3rd October 2021, 11:28 AM

Well Czech Prime minister is in there, 12M GBP deep. And parliament elections are coming up this Friday. So we'll see.
He has already let us know it was published specially to harm him in the elections.

Planigale · 3rd October 2021, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

The Guardian: Pandora papers: biggest ever leak of offshore data exposes financial secrets of rich and powerful

I am tickled pink. What a blow to so many and so deserving.

Who benefits from the leak?

The Atheist · 3rd October 2021, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I predict that the actual blow, if any, will amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Legal consequences will be minimal, and electoral consequences will be nil.

Yet again, we're in complete agreement, although you might have the nil and minimal back to front.

The only thing that surprises me is that people are either surprised or think it will make a blind bit of difference.

I'd be prepared to bet Prince Andrew will travel to America to face a trial over his underage sex exploits before there are any consequences of the Pandora Papers.

KDLarsen · 3rd October 2021, 12:50 PM

Quite. Most of it is legal on paper, though you're bound to get some questions asked here and there. The Blair couple avoiding a six-figure stamp duty when they bought a house might be legal, but doesn't look good if you're trying for good PR.

Hlafordlaes · 3rd October 2021, 11:43 PM

I happen to personally know two people with >$100 million in assets who are running scared, having been already hit hard by the tax penalities stemming from the 2012 (and ongoing) HSBC scandals. One has already lost over 60% of his assets to penalities and back taxes, the other is in court and she is about to go down. Because not every wealthy person is famous or newsworthy, you do not always hear about consequences, but this information is a treasure trove for tax collectors.

Hlafordlaes · 3rd October 2021, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Planigale

Who benefits from the leak?

Who benefits from crime fighting? The rule of law, for one. More broadly, however, your skepticism is fairly well-placed, as major political parties in the West depend on these same people.

Be it all as it may, you cannot successfully manage aggregate demand without deficit-driven boom-bust cycles, as is the case since Reagan, or without tackling the underlying problem of underconsumption by the very wealthy, regardless of any sort of moralizing.

Hlafordlaes · 4th October 2021, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Yet again, we're in complete agreement, although you might have the nil and minimal back to front.

The only thing that surprises me is that people are either surprised or think it will make a blind bit of difference.

I'd be prepared to bet Prince Andrew will travel to America to face a trial over his underage sex exploits before there are any consequences of the Pandora Papers.

What surprises me is how swiftly meek acquiescence is declared, and belief persists in the lack of real consequence. In this case, assume you are correct and it "makes no difference" in policy or practice. It will nevertheless make, and is making, a profound difference today. I realize this is hard, but should you care to do so, you might provide insights into the deficit-driven boom and bust cycles since 1980, just for starters, and provide your solution.

So far, not a soul has been able to put up any meaningful dukes.

timhau · 4th October 2021, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Well Czech Prime minister is in there, 12M GBP deep. And parliament elections are coming up this Friday. So we'll see.
He has already let us know it was published specially to harm him in the elections.

Well, boo hoo. Maybe he should have declared that Riviera mansion before campaign start.

As for legal consequences, I assume they will be minimal because the majority of the unearthed cases involving Western politicials don't actually involve anything illegal, and in a not insignificant portion the connection to Panama will be the main dubious factor. When it comes to e.g. Russian politicians or oligarchs, fraud sanctioned by Putin is de facto legal (but to balance things out, fraud not sanctioned by Putin will be penalized even when fictional).

Gord_in_Toronto · 4th October 2021, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

Well, boo hoo. Maybe he should have declared that Riviera mansion before campaign start.

As for legal consequences, I assume they will be minimal because the majority of the unearthed cases involving Western politicials don't actually involve anything illegal, and in a not insignificant portion the connection to Panama will be the main dubious factor. When it comes to e.g. Russian politicians or oligarchs, fraud sanctioned by Putin is de facto legal (but to balance things out, fraud not sanctioned by Putin will be penalized even when fictional).

Today's long article in the Toronto Star points out that some of the activities violate the laws of the British Virgin Islands (strengthened after the Panama Papers came out) with respect to disclosure of the true ownership of accounts held there. There may some consequences, no mater how minor, if the BVI wants to pretend to uphold the rule of law.

Susheel · 4th October 2021, 01:22 PM

Some of Modi's biggest corporate cronies are on the list.

The Atheist · 4th October 2021, 03:24 PM

Little surprise there.

It does give him something in common with Imran, though. Maybe they could get together over a cup of tea?

Trebuchet · 4th October 2021, 03:35 PM

Meanwhile, Fox News is shocked, shocked I tell you!, that Tammy Duckworth doesn't pay property taxes on her home. Without mentioning that it's because she's a disabled veteran and that's the law.

Childlike Empress · 5th October 2021, 01:23 AM

U.S. Government Provides Another Trove Of Offshore Papers Of People It Dislikes

Originally Posted by b

[...] The published papers are a system's fake critique of itself. While they support U.S. foreign policy objectives by accusing people the U.S. does not like they will also lead to more support for financial surveillance and spyimg. By disgracing or eliminating overseas competition they promote U.S. tax havens like Alaska, Nevada and Delaware to foreign 'customers':

The Pandora Papers contains details on over 200 trusts set up in the U.S. in recent years. In dozens of cases, clients have abandoned more traditional havens, such as the British Virgin Islands and the Bahamas, in favor of the U.S.

The most popular destination has been South Dakota, where the past decade has seen the value of assets held in trusts reach more than $360 billion. State laws in South Dakota allow for the establishment of secret trusts which don’t have to pay a cent of tax to the state for any earnings. Unlike most states, which restrict the life of trusts to a century or less, South Dakota trusts are also “perpetual,” meaning they have no end date. This means they can continue making tax free gains and passing them on to future generations — theoretically forever.

So the U.S. set out to blame offshore tax havens and foreign leaders of corruption while it itself is the biggest sinner with regards to both. There is pattern in this. Whenever the U.S. accuses some foreign person or government of doing 'something' their is a high probability that 'something' is exactly what the U.S. is doing itself.

The Great Zaganza · 5th October 2021, 01:29 AM

the odd things is that authoritarians would be very disappointed if their leaders didn't grift at every opportunity.

Wudang · 5th October 2021, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by LizSly

Lots of countries have ordered investigations as a result of the Pandora Papers eg India, Pakistan, Spain, Australia, Mexico.
-Two countries that haven’t: Lebanon and the UK.
-The two countries with the most companies mentioned: Lebanon and the UK

https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/1445330284140957698

P.J. Denyer · 9th October 2021, 10:10 AM

Why would the Torys order an investigation into dodgy offshore accounts when they can just get together and compare monthly statements?

Dr.Sid · 9th October 2021, 11:29 AM

So current Czech PM Andrej Babis lost the election. I mean he's very near second, but he can't form majority. He didn't lose much compared to polls though, it's more like his potential partners lost, so Panama Papers didn't seem to play big role.

Susheel · 9th October 2021, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Wudang

https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/1445330284140957698

Well, in India the government is more focused on whether or not the son of an Indian bollywood superstar (who also happens to be muslim), may or may not have taken cochise at a party on a cruise in international waters.
No announcement has been made about investigations of the people on the list, many of whom are big supporters of Modi. The media too, most of which are run by Modi's cronies, have been silent.

Hlafordlaes · 11th October 2021, 11:01 PM

Systemic money laundering is a deep betrayal. Don't take my word for it.

Then again, maybe we do live in an atomized world, where nothing affects anything, no cause and effect is in play, no systems are operative, a world in which we might sit and gaze at stacks of gold on the hilltop, surrounded by fat men and whores, and while away the hours in bliss, if not orgasm, dreaming of gods who bestow favors, and rushing to bayonet any shrill voice.

SuburbanTurkey · 12th October 2021, 05:15 AM

Probably follow the same trajectory as the Panama papers. Nothing will happen, except that a journalist that dared expose the elite will get murdered.

Venom · 12th October 2021, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Probably follow the same trajectory as the Panama papers. Nothing will happen, except that a journalist that dared expose the elite will get murdered.

??

Manger Douse · 12th October 2021, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

??

Daphne Caruana Galizia -
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58012903

autumn1971 · 13th October 2021, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

??

Isn't the USA still the country with more detained journalists than any other?

Your confusion seems a bit anachronistic

theprestige · 13th October 2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by autumn1971

Isn't the USA still the country with more detained journalists than any other?

Your confusion seems a bit anachronistic

Betcha anything it's actually China and they're fudging their numbers.

autumn1971 · 13th October 2021, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Betcha anything it's actually China and they're fudging their numbers.

I honestly think you're absolutely right.

That said, "well China probably has more," isn't really reassuring.

The Great Zaganza · 13th October 2021, 10:05 PM

China followed by Turkey, followed by Egypt when it comes to jailing journalists.

Susheel · 13th October 2021, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

China followed by Turkey, followed by Egypt when it comes to jailing journalists.

Don't forget India...they are making quite a mark in this regard

Vixen · 14th October 2021, 03:48 PM

I am glad this is all coming out in the open. I worked in a firm investigating laundered money by organised criminals. The trail took us the Turks and Caicos and Curaco. Getting the funds back to the UK taxpayers - from who it had been stolen by organised tax fraud - was another nightmare as everything was top secret. In the end the courts in these countries were persuaded to freeze the assets and repay the laundered money, which was literally hundreds of millions of pounds. And do you know what? These are the same off-shore banks the world's tax-evading billionaires use. In effect, they are providing shelter for money launderers as well, most of whom have never been apprehended, probably. Why isn't this made transparent? Because the Blairs and the friends of Putin would also have to be transparent.

3rd October 2021, 10:18 AM	#1
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 16,692	Pandora Papers The Guardian: Pandora papers: biggest ever leak of offshore data exposes financial secrets of rich and powerful Quote: Millions of documents reveal offshore deals and assets of more than 100 billionaires, 30 world leaders and 300 public officials The secret deals and hidden assets of some of the world’s richest and most powerful people have been revealed in the biggest trove of leaked offshore data in history. I am tickled pink. What a blow to so many and so deserving.
	__________________ His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

3rd October 2021, 10:52 AM	#2
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,396	Here in Canada the Toronto Star is already on top of things (they are a member of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists). https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...bal-elite.html Even if much of this is legal, the ethics and appearance of manipulating your money to avoid taxes should be embarrassing to some. No matter what their lawyers have say.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

3rd October 2021, 11:18 AM	#3
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 58,550	Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes What a blow to so many and so deserving. I predict that the actual blow, if any, will amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Legal consequences will be minimal, and electoral consequences will be nil.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

3rd October 2021, 12:06 PM	#6
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,745	Originally Posted by theprestige I predict that the actual blow, if any, will amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Legal consequences will be minimal, and electoral consequences will be nil. Yet again, we're in complete agreement, although you might have the nil and minimal back to front. The only thing that surprises me is that people are either surprised or think it will make a blind bit of difference. I'd be prepared to bet Prince Andrew will travel to America to face a trial over his underage sex exploits before there are any consequences of the Pandora Papers.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

3rd October 2021, 12:50 PM	#7
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,722	Quite. Most of it is legal on paper, though you're bound to get some questions asked here and there. The Blair couple avoiding a six-figure stamp duty when they bought a house might be legal, but doesn't look good if you're trying for good PR.
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,722

3rd October 2021, 11:28 AM	#4
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,701	Well Czech Prime minister is in there, 12M GBP deep. And parliament elections are coming up this Friday. So we'll see. He has already let us know it was published specially to harm him in the elections.

3rd October 2021, 12:04 PM	#5
Planigale Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 5,609	Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes The Guardian: Pandora papers: biggest ever leak of offshore data exposes financial secrets of rich and powerful I am tickled pink. What a blow to so many and so deserving. Who benefits from the leak?

3rd October 2021, 11:43 PM	#8
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 16,692	I happen to personally know two people with >$100 million in assets who are running scared, having been already hit hard by the tax penalities stemming from the 2012 (and ongoing) HSBC scandals. One has already lost over 60% of his assets to penalities and back taxes, the other is in court and she is about to go down. Because not every wealthy person is famous or newsworthy, you do not always hear about consequences, but this information is a treasure trove for tax collectors.
	__________________ His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

3rd October 2021, 11:57 PM	#9
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 16,692	Originally Posted by Planigale Who benefits from the leak? Who benefits from crime fighting? The rule of law, for one. More broadly, however, your skepticism is fairly well-placed, as major political parties in the West depend on these same people. Be it all as it may, you cannot successfully manage aggregate demand without deficit-driven boom-bust cycles, as is the case since Reagan, or without tackling the underlying problem of underconsumption by the very wealthy, regardless of any sort of moralizing.
	__________________ His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

4th October 2021, 12:24 AM	#10
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 16,692	Originally Posted by The Atheist Yet again, we're in complete agreement, although you might have the nil and minimal back to front. The only thing that surprises me is that people are either surprised or think it will make a blind bit of difference. I'd be prepared to bet Prince Andrew will travel to America to face a trial over his underage sex exploits before there are any consequences of the Pandora Papers. What surprises me is how swiftly meek acquiescence is declared, and belief persists in the lack of real consequence. In this case, assume you are correct and it "makes no difference" in policy or practice. It will nevertheless make, and is making, a profound difference today. I realize this is hard, but should you care to do so, you might provide insights into the deficit-driven boom and bust cycles since 1980, just for starters, and provide your solution. So far, not a soul has been able to put up any meaningful dukes.
	__________________ His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

4th October 2021, 03:29 AM	#11
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,949	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Well Czech Prime minister is in there, 12M GBP deep. And parliament elections are coming up this Friday. So we'll see. He has already let us know it was published specially to harm him in the elections. Well, boo hoo. Maybe he should have declared that Riviera mansion before campaign start. As for legal consequences, I assume they will be minimal because the majority of the unearthed cases involving Western politicials don't actually involve anything illegal, and in a not insignificant portion the connection to Panama will be the main dubious factor. When it comes to e.g. Russian politicians or oligarchs, fraud sanctioned by Putin is de facto legal (but to balance things out, fraud not sanctioned by Putin will be penalized even when fictional).
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

4th October 2021, 09:06 AM	#12
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,396	Originally Posted by timhau Well, boo hoo. Maybe he should have declared that Riviera mansion before campaign start. As for legal consequences, I assume they will be minimal because the majority of the unearthed cases involving Western politicials don't actually involve anything illegal, and in a not insignificant portion the connection to Panama will be the main dubious factor. When it comes to e.g. Russian politicians or oligarchs, fraud sanctioned by Putin is de facto legal (but to balance things out, fraud not sanctioned by Putin will be penalized even when fictional). Today's long article in the Toronto Star points out that some of the activities violate the laws of the British Virgin Islands (strengthened after the Panama Papers came out) with respect to disclosure of the true ownership of accounts held there. There may some consequences, no mater how minor, if the BVI wants to pretend to uphold the rule of law.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

4th October 2021, 01:22 PM	#13
Susheel Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,677	Some of Modi's biggest corporate cronies are on the list.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

4th October 2021, 03:24 PM	#14
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,745	Little surprise there. It does give him something in common with Imran, though. Maybe they could get together over a cup of tea?
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

4th October 2021, 03:35 PM	#15
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 33,943	Meanwhile, Fox News is shocked, shocked I tell you!, that Tammy Duckworth doesn't pay property taxes on her home. Without mentioning that it's because she's a disabled veteran and that's the law.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

5th October 2021, 01:23 AM	#16
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 20,003	U.S. Government Provides Another Trove Of Offshore Papers Of People It Dislikes Originally Posted by b [...] The published papers are a system's fake critique of itself. While they support U.S. foreign policy objectives by accusing people the U.S. does not like they will also lead to more support for financial surveillance and spyimg. By disgracing or eliminating overseas competition they promote U.S. tax havens like Alaska, Nevada and Delaware to foreign 'customers': The Pandora Papers contains details on over 200 trusts set up in the U.S. in recent years. In dozens of cases, clients have abandoned more traditional havens, such as the British Virgin Islands and the Bahamas, in favor of the U.S. The most popular destination has been South Dakota, where the past decade has seen the value of assets held in trusts reach more than $360 billion. State laws in South Dakota allow for the establishment of secret trusts which don’t have to pay a cent of tax to the state for any earnings. Unlike most states, which restrict the life of trusts to a century or less, South Dakota trusts are also “perpetual,” meaning they have no end date. This means they can continue making tax free gains and passing them on to future generations — theoretically forever. So the U.S. set out to blame offshore tax havens and foreign leaders of corruption while it itself is the biggest sinner with regards to both. There is pattern in this. Whenever the U.S. accuses some foreign person or government of doing 'something' their is a high probability that 'something' is exactly what the U.S. is doing itself.
	__________________ "They threw the babies out of the incubators!" - Vladimir Z

5th October 2021, 01:29 AM	#17
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 17,691	the odd things is that authoritarians would be very disappointed if their leaders didn't grift at every opportunity.
	__________________ "Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food." - Robert M. Pirsig

5th October 2021, 03:57 AM	#18
Wudang BOFH Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 14,470	Originally Posted by LizSly Lots of countries have ordered investigations as a result of the Pandora Papers eg India, Pakistan, Spain, Australia, Mexico. -Two countries that haven’t: Lebanon and the UK. -The two countries with the most companies mentioned: Lebanon and the UK https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/1445330284140957698
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

9th October 2021, 10:10 AM	#19
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	Why would the Torys order an investigation into dodgy offshore accounts when they can just get together and compare monthly statements?
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,704	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

9th October 2021, 11:29 AM	#20
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 3,701	So current Czech PM Andrej Babis lost the election. I mean he's very near second, but he can't form majority. He didn't lose much compared to polls though, it's more like his potential partners lost, so Panama Papers didn't seem to play big role.

9th October 2021, 08:34 PM	#21
Susheel Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,677	Originally Posted by Wudang https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/1445330284140957698 Well, in India the government is more focused on whether or not the son of an Indian bollywood superstar (who also happens to be muslim), may or may not have taken cochise at a party on a cruise in international waters. No announcement has been made about investigations of the people on the list, many of whom are big supporters of Modi. The media too, most of which are run by Modi's cronies, have been silent.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

11th October 2021, 11:01 PM	#22
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 16,692	Systemic money laundering is a deep betrayal. Don't take my word for it. Then again, maybe we do live in an atomized world, where nothing affects anything, no cause and effect is in play, no systems are operative, a world in which we might sit and gaze at stacks of gold on the hilltop, surrounded by fat men and whores, and while away the hours in bliss, if not orgasm, dreaming of gods who bestow favors, and rushing to bayonet any shrill voice.
	__________________ His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

12th October 2021, 05:15 AM	#23
SuburbanTurkey Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 15,141	Probably follow the same trajectory as the Panama papers. Nothing will happen, except that a journalist that dared expose the elite will get murdered.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

12th October 2021, 09:55 PM	#24
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 5,771	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Probably follow the same trajectory as the Panama papers. Nothing will happen, except that a journalist that dared expose the elite will get murdered. ??

12th October 2021, 10:28 PM	#25
Manger Douse Muse Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 783	Originally Posted by Venom ?? Daphne Caruana Galizia - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58012903
Manger Douse Muse Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 783

13th October 2021, 04:25 PM	#26
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,686	Originally Posted by Venom ?? Isn't the USA still the country with more detained journalists than any other? Your confusion seems a bit anachronistic
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,686	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

13th October 2021, 04:50 PM	#27
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 58,550	Originally Posted by autumn1971 Isn't the USA still the country with more detained journalists than any other? Your confusion seems a bit anachronistic Betcha anything it's actually China and they're fudging their numbers.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

13th October 2021, 06:38 PM	#28
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,686	Originally Posted by theprestige Betcha anything it's actually China and they're fudging their numbers. I honestly think you're absolutely right. That said, "well China probably has more," isn't really reassuring.
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,686	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

13th October 2021, 10:05 PM	#29
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 17,691	China followed by Turkey, followed by Egypt when it comes to jailing journalists.
	__________________ "Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food." - Robert M. Pirsig

13th October 2021, 10:52 PM	#30
Susheel Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,677	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza China followed by Turkey, followed by Egypt when it comes to jailing journalists. Don't forget India...they are making quite a mark in this regard
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

14th October 2021, 03:48 PM	#31
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 28,928	I am glad this is all coming out in the open. I worked in a firm investigating laundered money by organised criminals. The trail took us the Turks and Caicos and Curaco. Getting the funds back to the UK taxpayers - from who it had been stolen by organised tax fraud - was another nightmare as everything was top secret. In the end the courts in these countries were persuaded to freeze the assets and repay the laundered money, which was literally hundreds of millions of pounds. And do you know what? These are the same off-shore banks the world's tax-evading billionaires use. In effect, they are providing shelter for money launderers as well, most of whom have never been apprehended, probably. Why isn't this made transparent? Because the Blairs and the friends of Putin would also have to be transparent.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend