IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 1st April 2023, 06:02 PM   #321
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,661
The Foundation for Individual Rights & Expression has done a much longer article on the whole 'Sensitivity Reader' (aka Self-appointed Censorship Officer) phenomenon.


One of the points brought up in the linked article is just how inconsistent some of these changes can be, another is how it's ultimately rooted in the idea that 'Only X can Write about X' (To give the exaggerated example, only a murderer can write about murder.).



Anecdotally, I was speaking with someone while browsing through a bookshop, they had pretty strong opinions on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, but could not understand why Roald Dahl & Enid Blyton had to be rewriten and I should note they were aware of Roald Dahl's less savoury aspects.



Quote:
Remember censor bars? They were the black boxes often used in print and visual media to cover up words, phrases, or images deemed “inappropriate” or too “sensitive” for audiences.

The intention was to obstruct a graphic image, lewd gesture, or a taboo word. But, of course, they had the opposite effect. Nothing highlights a middle finger on TV like a big black bar, and nothing piques the interest of precocious children like redacted or bleeped out words.

But what if, rather than being covered up, they weren’t there at all? What if you read different words in your books and never even knew the original language was changed?

https://www.thefire.org/news/why-sen...rt-and-culture
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2023, 10:20 AM   #322
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,859
And now they've come for Plum:

Quote:
Jeeves and Wooster books have been rewritten to remove prose by PG Wodehouse deemed “unacceptable” by publishers, the Telegraph can reveal.

Original passages in the comic novels have been purged or reworked for new editions issued by Penguin Random House.

Trigger warnings have also been added to revised editions telling would-be Wodehouse readers that his themes and characters may be “outdated”.
Heavens to Betsy! You mean the English aren't a bunch of wealthy fops sponging off their rich relatives and spending weekends at castles in the country?

My initial reaction is "touch not one word of the master's prose!" But the Telegraph mentions one novel in particular, Thank You, Jeeves, and here I tend to agree that some editing is actually beneficial. A major subplot of that story involves a minstrel group that several of the characters including Bertie refer to as you-know-whats. Someone reading the novel today would be struck by how racist and low-class they sound, and that's certainly not the characterization that Wodehouse was going for.

The editors claim to have only changed the wording, not the "story," which sounds fine, but I do wonder how, since the plot in question includes several characters (Bertie included) wearing blackface.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2023, 09:22 PM   #323
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 23,553
It always has seemed ridiculous to me (and it always will) that some in society feel the need to hide what these authors wrote, and pretend they weren't the abject ******* racists and bigots they actually were.

IMO, they shouldn't be sanitized at all because if we keep doing so, we help society to forget what these people wrote - writings which spoke to who they were, and what the times they lived in were like. Before you know it, a few generations later, then, no-one will believe a person when they try to claim that Dahl, Kipling et al were racists. We are already seeing people try to rewrite history w.r.t. the Holocaust and Nazi Germany (anyone up for the job of sanitizing Mein Kampf ?)

The writings and attitudes if the likes of Rudyard Kipling should be used as teaching points about colonialism, jingoism, bigotry, racism, misogyny, anti-Antisemitism and imperialist warmongering.
__________________
What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

Last edited by smartcooky; 17th April 2023 at 09:58 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2023, 02:01 AM   #324
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 109,474
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It always has seemed ridiculous to me (and it always will) that some in society feel the need to hide what these authors wrote, and pretend they weren't the abject ******* racists and bigots they actually were.

IMO, they shouldn't be sanitized at all because if we keep doing so, we help society to forget what these people wrote - writings which spoke to who they were, and what the times they lived in were like. Before you know it, a few generations later, then, no-one will believe a person when they try to claim that Dahl, Kipling et al were racists. We are already seeing people try to rewrite history w.r.t. the Holocaust and Nazi Germany (anyone up for the job of sanitizing Mein Kampf ?)

The writings and attitudes if the likes of Rudyard Kipling should be used as teaching points about colonialism, jingoism, bigotry, racism, misogyny, anti-Antisemitism and imperialist warmongering.
All these decisions are about keeping the works profitable. Some have even kept the original text in print, which demonstrates how much this is about maximising the potential for profit. Your appeal for historical purity isn't going to work unless you can convince them that way is more profitable.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2023, 03:05 AM   #325
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,686
Over in the Ukraine war thread there are plenty of excoriating comments regarding the behaviour of the Russians, and many of these remark that this is typical Russian behaviour.

It occurred to me that if Russia should manage to collapse itself into a long term failed state, all of that writing is going to look a lot like racist punching down to future generations.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:14 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.