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Old 19th April 2018, 05:16 AM   #521
Darat
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
The joke is that, because if we only did that, rationalize afterwards, then your claim would be a rationalization after the fact and thus not a reasoned, with logic and evidence answer. So in your answer you gave evidence for that some humans use reason, logic and evidence and not just give a rationalization after the fact.
Or as the song puts it "I am what I am", whatever that is.
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Old 19th April 2018, 05:18 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Rationalize" while technically accurate, is too loaded.

Left Brain creates the best cognizant picture it can with the information it does have.
Perhaps:

We create a narrative to explain our behaviour.

Is a better way of putting it.
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:12 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
So being aware of your environment and interacting with it is one component of consciousness but it falls short of what we are trying to express. The missing component, in my opinion, is that you must also be aware of your position in relation to that environment. So a single cell organism could respond when the temperature of its environment got dangerously high but they are not necessarily aware of why they do that. A human, on the other hand, also has an automatic response to their skin being heated dangerously high, just like the single cell organism, but they are also aware of why they respond that way to the point that they don't need a temperature variation to avoid the situation, just seeing the indicators that such a situation could occur causes them to react.
Well, I asked about the qualitative difference between a simple and a complex brain. A single-celled organism does not have a brain. My personal assumption is that consciousness requires a brain. Probably a brain of some complexity.

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Old 19th April 2018, 12:36 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, I asked about the qualitative difference between a simple and a complex brain. A single-celled organism does not have a brain. My personal assumption is that consciousness requires a brain. Probably a brain of some complexity.

Hans
On the one hand, it sounds plausible when we think of biological organisms on earth.

Once we spread our interests to very different organisms or AI, it starts to get hard to say why a brain is necessary.

I think Searle argued for something like your position.
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, I asked about the qualitative difference between a simple and a complex brain. A single-celled organism does not have a brain. My personal assumption is that consciousness requires a brain. Probably a brain of some complexity.

Hans
The smallest brain belongs to the fruit fly and fruit flies show the rudiments of consciousness. Maybe the brain doesn't have to be that complex.

Brains are an evolutionary device that positions us in our environment and consciousness is a direct, and inevitable, result of having a brain. Without being aware of ourselves we cannot know our position in the environment. Probably every creature with a brain has a degree of consciousness.
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Old Yesterday, 10:56 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The evidence seems to be that much of what we do we rationalise afterwards, the split brain video Joemorgue provided shows this.
Perhaps but it is obvious we understand what is going to happen before it happens. Knowing our position in our environment has huge survival advantages and to be able to do that we need to be aware of ourselves. This allows us to, know the consequences of actions before they are undertaken, and foresee the results of events occurring in our immediate environment in order to take advantage of the results of those events. Without these abilities hunting is impossible and one relies on chance for food.
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Old Today, 01:04 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
The smallest brain belongs to the fruit fly and fruit flies show the rudiments of consciousness. Maybe the brain doesn't have to be that complex.

Brains are an evolutionary device that positions us in our environment and consciousness is a direct, and inevitable, result of having a brain. Without being aware of ourselves we cannot know our position in the environment. Probably every creature with a brain has a degree of consciousness.
I tend to agree. Again, much depends on how we decide to define consciousness.

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