ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags big cats , cougars , cryptozoology

Reply
Old 2nd March 2011, 01:27 PM   #1
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
US Officials Declare Eastern Cougar Extinct

This is in spite of a subculture of cryptozoologists and woos who argue that the Eastern Cougar still exists. As with Bigfoot, there are thousands of unsubstanciated sightings and non-confirmatory evidence... sometimes hoaxed.

U.S. officials declare eastern cougar extinct


Quote:
The eastern cougar, a large and elusive tawny wild cat that once prowled over wilderness in 21 states, is now extinct, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said on Wednesday.

Experts had long questioned the cougar's existence. Though it has been on the endangered species list since 1973, the animal likely has been extinct since the 1930's, said Dr. Mark McCollough, a senior scientist with the FWS.

Federal researchers had been studying whether the eastern cougar was present in the 21 states where it had a historical range. "(Researchers) found no information to support the existence of the eastern cougar," said Martin Miller, the FWS Northeast head of endangered species.

Since the charity's inception in 1998, years of field work to try to verify eastern cougar sightings have failed to produce a single confirmation, the group said on its website.

Now, the Fish and Wildlife agency is readying a proposal to remove the eastern cougar from the endangered species list, since extinct animals are not eligible for protection under the U.S. Endangered Species Act.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 02:16 PM   #2
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39,012
I suppose, is Wisconsin part of the East or the West?
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 02:23 PM   #3
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
The article is about the animal known as "Eastern Cougar". It is extinct in all states that it once occured within.

Cougars found in Wisconsin in modern times would be from the West or captive release/escape.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 02:30 PM   #4
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
More new info...

Eastern Cougar Fact Sheet

Full Report.

It seems that in reference to the Eastern Cougar, Wisconsin is considered "East".
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 02:54 PM   #5
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,388
I don't think it's really comparable to Bigfoot.

- We know it did exist at one point
- We know a fair bit about how it developed, how it lived, and how/why it died off
- Similar critters (cougars, pumas, mountain lions, etc) are found in relative abundance
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 02:59 PM   #6
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
The similarity is that many people insist that it exists without any functional evidence. There is also a similarity in that people do intentionally hoax evidence for Eastern Cougar.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 03:00 PM   #7
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Did they try looking in certain bars in New York. My information suggests they are loaded with cougars
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 03:04 PM   #8
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Did they try looking in certain bars in New York.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 03:18 PM   #9
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
I'm having trouble coming up with anything other than "cool story, bro." Is there a point you wish to make regarding this article?
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 03:27 PM   #10
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Eastern Cougars and "panthers" have long been a topic of skepticism. You can find discussions about them here on JREF and on cryptozoology sites and forums. The article is significant because the government is officially saying no.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 03:31 PM   #11
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I said cougar, not dinosaur lol
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2011, 05:34 PM   #12
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
This is significant, simply because some have been claiming that a govt cover up was ocurring wrt the E. cougar, because if the govt admitted they existed, it would ruin state's endangered species budget. Cover up cougar's existence, because if it exists, then they must protect it. If it is off of the E.S.ACT, then they do not need to protect it if they admit cougars are in their state.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 09:07 AM   #13
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
The conspiracy theories are a comin'. see the Bigfoot Forums
http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/...769#entry43769
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 09:40 AM   #14
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I don't think it's really comparable to Bigfoot.

- We know it did exist at one point
- We know a fair bit about how it developed, how it lived, and how/why it died off
- Similar critters (cougars, pumas, mountain lions, etc) are found in relative abundance
More similar to the red panda escapee then : people seeing animals where in reality it is something else.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 12:41 PM   #15
AlaskaBushPilot
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
There are missing aircraft nobody has ever found.

So there are still Duck-billed Platypus and Eastern Cougar, passenger pigeon, and etc. all over the place.
AlaskaBushPilot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 12:52 PM   #16
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
So there are still Duck-billed Platypus and Eastern Cougar, passenger pigeon, and etc. all over the place.
Which of these is not like the others?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 01:13 PM   #17
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
It's really pretty amazing and unprecedented in modern times. A large North American animal is declared extinct by the government and many hundreds, if not thousands of citizens say they are wrong.

They are saying that the Eastern Cougar is not extinct because: they have seen them or know somebody who has seen them, photographed or filmed them, seen tracks or poop or other sign, killed them or found dead, found evidence of their predation on other animals, etc.

But nobody has produced any confirmatory evidence that the animal is not extinct. That is all it would have taken and yet... nothing.

This Yahoo News article has more information and over 3,500 comments. Many of those comments are folks saying that the Eastern Cougar is not extinct for various reasons. The web is full of forums, blogs and articles with great numbers of people saying the cat isn't extinct.

Quote:
Ray Sedorchuk, 45, an avid hunter and outdoorsman, said he got an excellent look at a cougar last June in rural Bradford County, in northern Pennsylvania. He was in his truck when a reddish-brown animal with a long tail crossed the road. He said he jammed on the brakes, and the cougar stopped in its tracks.

"I could see the body, the tail and the head, the entire animal, perfectly. It's not a bobcat, it's not a housecat, it's a cougar," he said. "It's a sleek animal. It ran low to the ground and stealth-like. It moved with elegance."

Sedorchuk, a freelance writer who spends copious amounts of time in the woods, said he'd always been skeptical of the eastern cougar's existence, even as two of his friends insisted to him that they had seen them in the wild.

And now?

"I believe that they're here, without even thinking twice about it," he said. "I believe there aren't that many, but there are enough where they can get together and breed."
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 01:47 PM   #18
Moon-Spinner
Graduate Poster
 
Moon-Spinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,581
If they really want to prove that the Eastern Cougar isn't extinct, then I suggest that the next time they see one, they should shoot it and bring in the carcass for examination!
Moon-Spinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 02:37 PM   #19
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner View Post
If they really want to prove that the Eastern Cougar isn't extinct, then I suggest that the next time they see one, they should shoot it and bring in the carcass for examination!
It is not endangered anymore, so I guess it is fair game.

Can you get busted for shooting an extinct animal?
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 03:36 PM   #20
AlaskaBushPilot
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Which of these is not like the others?
You tell me. I have no ego at stake here. I love learning, and being corrected makes me a better person.

So I enjoy being helped - but there isn't any reason to be coy about correcting someone unless you want to relish the idea of keeping them ignorant, or thinking that they are going to squirm because you know something they don't.

Sooo... out with it.
AlaskaBushPilot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 03:46 PM   #21
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
The platypus is the one which isn't extinct.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 124088250341hd2zh.jpg (24.9 KB, 12 views)
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd March 2011, 06:45 PM   #22
AlaskaBushPilot
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The platypus is the one which isn't extinct.
Oh how interesting! I remember reading as a boy that it was extinct. Now my curiosity is aroused.
AlaskaBushPilot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 07:53 AM   #23
The Shrike
Illuminator
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,565
The announcement seems like it will muddy the waters, not clarify them. The folks claiming cougar sightings are not reporting eastern cougars, just cougars that happen to be in the East. There's nothing here to refute the sightings people report, only the specification that the cougars people do report in the East are of western or other stock.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 08:48 AM   #24
roger
Penultimate Amazing
 
roger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,465
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
The announcement seems like it will muddy the waters, not clarify them. The folks claiming cougar sightings are not reporting eastern cougars, just cougars that happen to be in the East. There's nothing here to refute the sightings people report, only the specification that the cougars people do report in the East are of western or other stock.
Well, muddy waters is not the real concern here of people back east. This blog shares some of the concerns. It's a lot to read, and not well written, so, to summarize, with the cougar delisted they are concerned that there is no more protection for the species. They want to repopulate the cougar population of the east, and are concerned that now the cougar will have no federal level protection. They are also bickering about whether it was a true subspecies or not. Don't ask me what a 'true' subspecies is - places like here claim there is no way to distinguish the subspecies, but I find their claims dubious. The fact that is is hard to visually identify a subspecies in the woods doesn't mean that a subspecies doesn't exist. On the DNA front I have no comment because it is not my field.

I haven't read enough to really understand all of this, nor will I (life is short). I'm not sure if they are right or not. If only this subspecies was on the endangered list, then I guess their concerns make sense. If, on the other hand, several subspecies or the entire species is on the endangered list, then the cougar in general will still be protected. I dunno.

Anyway, we should expect to see this play out over the next several years to decades in the political and environmental fronts.
__________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.
Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir
roger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 08:57 AM   #25
The Shrike
Illuminator
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,565
Originally Posted by roger View Post
. . . with the cougar delisted they are concerned that there is no more protection for the species. . .
Sure, but that kind of rings hollow considering the expansion of western cougars (from hunted populations) into the eastern U.S. If western cougars dispersing to the East fail to establish a breeding population, my money would be on road mortality as the culprit, not hunting pressure.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 09:13 AM   #26
Mark6
Philosopher
 
Mark6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,255
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What does "s.t.a.u.n.c.h." stand for?
__________________
Gamemaster: "A horde of rotting zombies is shambling toward you. The sign over the door says 'Accounting'"
Mark6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 09:18 AM   #27
Skwinty
Philosopher
 
Skwinty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,593
Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
What does "s.t.a.u.n.c.h." stand for?
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/5379da6e.jpg

"Damn, your mates girlfriend is HOT!. Keep her away from me or she is so getting staunched..."
__________________


What is reality? Nothing but a collective hunch.
--Lily Tomlin

Last edited by Skwinty; 4th March 2011 at 09:19 AM.
Skwinty is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 09:20 AM   #28
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,955
According to the report PARCHER posted in post #4:

1. They are concerned that there is no way to distinguish between E. and W. cougars genetically.

2. They talk about Western cougars moving in from Canada and the plains states, as though they will 'repopulate' the Eastern ranges. So this tells me that they consider them to be one species and not a bunch of subspecies.

Unrelated to the report:

3. CITES lists 3 P. concolor on their list. Go here http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/...e?init=Species
Type in cougar, and check 'common name' then search.

1. Puma concolor, which is shown as distributed throughout the former range of the E. cougar, perhaps they are saying they are all one species.

2. Puma concolor couguar, (eastern cougar), which is shown as basically extirpated from the ranges.

3. Puma concolor (population #1) this is how future cougars will probably be recognized, I think. a Cougar found east of the Mississippi, will probably be labeled Cougar from pop.#1, and those west will be pop#2, and perhaps Florida will be labeled Pop. #3, S. America #4 etc...
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 10:36 AM   #29
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
What does "s.t.a.u.n.c.h." stand for?

It's how you spell staunch. From one of the greatest documentaries in the history of filmmaking.

"In dealing with me, the relatives didn't know that they were dealing with a staunch character. And I tell you if there's anything worse than a staunch woman... S.T.A.U.N.C.H. There's nothing worse. I'm telling you. They don't weaken - no matter what. But they didn't know that. Wow, what they didn't know..."

Little Edie Bouvier Beale in Grey Gardens.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg little-edie-bathing-suit.jpg (25.4 KB, 9 views)
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 07:01 PM   #30
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The similarity is that many people insist that it exists without any functional evidence. There is also a similarity in that people do intentionally hoax evidence for Eastern Cougar.
Or the western ones just moved east, is that so unlikely, Parcher?
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 07:03 PM   #31
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Eastern Cougars and "panthers" have long been a topic of skepticism. You can find discussions about them here on JREF and on cryptozoology sites and forums. The article is significant because the government is officially saying no.
to keep from having to move funds from pet project to fund protection for something alledgedly isnt there.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th March 2011, 07:05 PM   #32
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's really pretty amazing and unprecedented in modern times. A large North American animal is declared extinct by the government and many hundreds, if not thousands of citizens say they are wrong.

They are saying that the Eastern Cougar is not extinct because: they have seen them or know somebody who has seen them, photographed or filmed them, seen tracks or poop or other sign, killed them or found dead, found evidence of their predation on other animals, etc.

But nobody has produced any confirmatory evidence that the animal is not extinct. That is all it would have taken and yet... nothing.

This Yahoo News article has more information and over 3,500 comments. Many of those comments are folks saying that the Eastern Cougar is not extinct for various reasons. The web is full of forums, blogs and articles with great numbers of people saying the cat isn't extinct.
you oversimplify and you routinely do, I for one, am not advocating eastern cougars, its more like cougars are in the east, they are out there. They may have simply come east, but they are here, despite Parcher's usual sarcasm and condescension

Last edited by mikeyx; 4th March 2011 at 07:06 PM.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 08:24 AM   #33
quarky
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
I wonder how cougars cross the Mississippi river?
quarky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 08:57 AM   #34
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
 
Akhenaten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia
Posts: 29,674
Originally Posted by quarky View Post
I wonder how cougars cross the Mississippi river?


On catamarans, of course.
__________________


Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon
Akhenaten is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 09:29 AM   #35
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by quarky View Post
I wonder how cougars cross the Mississippi river?
There are a number of possible ways.

Swim
Cross on a bridge
Cross on ice

Quote:
Q: Does the Mississippi River ever completely freeze over, or do the locks prevent that from happening? If it ever has frozen over, when did that happen?

A: According to Roald Tweet, a retired English professor at Augustana College, Rock Island, and noted local historian who has written extensively about the river, the Mississippi River has indeed frozen over many times throughout history, but not in recent memory. Tweet said he believes that in 1853, a train actually slid onto the ice to unload its cargo onto a barge.

However, the river does act as a natural barrier. You can see this by looking at the cougar map...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Eastern%20Cougar%20Map.htm_txt_total.jpg (38.2 KB, 12 views)
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 09:58 AM   #36
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Sure, but that kind of rings hollow considering the expansion of western cougars (from hunted populations) into the eastern U.S. If western cougars dispersing to the East fail to establish a breeding population, my money would be on road mortality as the culprit, not hunting pressure.

It wouldn't be, and presently isn't, roadkill or hunting - it's lack of females. There is a distinct differential in dispersion away from established breeding populations based on gender. Females don't wander/roam.

It makes no difference how many males cross the Mississippi River as a consequence of their wandering. Without any females, there cannot be an expansion of anything other than desperate horny young males who ain't gonna get any tail.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 11:42 AM   #37
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,923
Originally Posted by mikeyx View Post
...I for one, am not advocating eastern cougars, its more like cougars are in the east, they are out there.
So, you aren't saying there are cougars in the eastern U.S., you're just saying that there are cougars in the eastern U.S.?
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 12:29 PM   #38
quarky
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,121
Of course there are cougars in the eastern U.S.
They are evidently refugees from a different sort of cougar-dem.

Eventually, Darwin willing, these western cougars in the east will become eastern cougars.
That's what I love about science.
quarky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 02:02 PM   #39
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by quarky View Post
I wonder how cougars cross the Mississippi river?
again, oversimplification as a dodge.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2011, 02:03 PM   #40
mikeyx
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
So, you aren't saying there are cougars in the eastern U.S., you're just saying that there are cougars in the eastern U.S.?
Im saying that you dont need to make the case for a native Eastern population, they can migrate from elsewhere, and they have. They are here. Deal with it.
mikeyx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:09 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.