US Officials Declare Eastern Cougar Extinct

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

The Connecticut cougar was also confirmed in Lake George, New York by tracks, hair and DNA.

Wild cougar passed through Lake George



This is the kind of confirmatory evidence that is available when real cougars are present. We have nothing like this for any other cougars in the East.

Yet................. It happened and not an escaped pet to match Drew's bs.....

You tanked another thread with honest commentary on things and want to believe you are the interweb police or something. This is why you are on ignore. This is why your agenda is useless, as much as your opinion.

Parcher = troll

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Yet................. It happened and not an escaped pet to match Drew's bs.....

You tanked another thread with honest commentary on things and want to believe you are the interweb police or something. This is why you are on ignore. This is why your agenda is useless, as much as your opinion.

Parcher = troll

Attacking the poster is bad form, and against the rules, and it appears desperate on your part.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Attacking the poster is bad form, and against the rules, and it appears desperate on your part.

Nope. The fact that Parcher seems to have the need to attack others rather than his usual know it all routine is a new low. Deal with it. I have nothing to be desperate about.

[William Parcher]

Case Report from New York State on the wandering cougar.

Quote:

The hair sample consists of 15 fine hairs in an unlabelled zip-loc style sandwich bag. The hairs range in length from 9 to 15mm and are tan with dark (black) tips; they appear to be underfur, no guard hairs are present. They have a dark thick medulla with some vacuoles present and brownish yellow ungranulated pigment. The track photos consist of 36 photographs of tracks in the snow, some with a yardstick for scale. The foot print measures approximately 4 1/4 inches long by 3 1/2 inches wide; a trilobed heel pad is clearly evident in some footprints. Based on the yardstick in some of the photos the stride is estimated at ~30 inches...

Five hairs were sent to Dr. Melanie Culver at the University of Arizona School of Natural Resources on February 9, 2011 for DNA analysis to determine species and subspecies if possible; results are still pending as of the date of this report. Four hairs were sent to Kristine Pilgrim at the US Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station on July 28, 2011 for DNA analysis to determine species and to determine if it was the same mountain lion that was killed in Milford Connecticut on June 11, 2011...

Quote:

It is interesting to note that this one lone mountain lion passing through New York was detected and confirmed through track photographs and DNA (and also detected and confirmed several times in other states) which is good evidence that if a population of mountain lions lived in the northeastern US they would likely be detected.

This cougar is powerful evidence that the bolded statement is meaningful.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Nope. The fact that Parcher seems to have the need to attack others rather than his usual know it all routine is a new low. Deal with it. I have nothing to be desperate about.

Dude, seriously you're looking like a complete loon with these posts. How can you call parcher the troll when his recent post actually brought new information to the thread and yours just, well, called him a troll? By definition, you are the one trolling and it's blatantly obvious to anyone reading the thread.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

This cougar is powerful evidence that the bolded statement is meaningful.

Agreed. So this is now the fourth independent confirmation of this one individual, right? The animal was confirmed in MI, WI, NY, and CT?

[LTC8K6]

If it was an 800 pound bipedal cougar, it would have gone undetected.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by The Shrike

Dude, seriously you're looking like a complete loon with these posts. How can you call parcher the troll when his recent post actually brought new information to the thread and yours just, well, called him a troll? By definition, you are the one trolling and it's blatantly obvious to anyone reading the thread.

YOU are brazenly choosing to ignore the part where he draws upon politics that are largely old news, none of his business from another forum, trolling is trolling and cherry picking your points is not helpful.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

YOU are brazenly choosing to ignore the part where he draws upon politics that are largely old news, none of his business from another forum, trolling is trolling and cherry picking your points is not helpful.

[William Parcher]

When the public cries mountain lion, these guys respond (Connecticut)

Quote:

...But since June, when the state's first recorded mountain lion appeared -- and then was struck dead by a car on a Milford highway -- the officers have busily tracked that species, too. Though they've found nearly every reported sighting lacking in evidence, or corresponding instead to bobcats or deer, the officers aren't writing off the prospect of confronting another mountain lion. "We're not saying no, we're just saying, 'Show us proof,' " said Capt. Raul Camejo, who oversees the 20 EnCon officers covering western Connecticut.

[Drewbot]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/715b22ed.jpg

More of this please.

[William Parcher]

Loren Coleman nurtures Eastern Cougar conspiracy theorists...

Retro-Explaining: Dead Connecticut Cougar Said To Have Been In New York…As Well As Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota And South Dakota!

Originally Posted by Coleman on Cryptomundo

Why do I get the creepy feeling that this one dead cougar in Connecticut is now being used by U.S. wildlife officials to explain several recent confirmed puma sightings in the Midwest and East – sort of like how a confessed serial killer is used to "clear the books" on unsolved murder cases?

Yeah, we've got a bunch of cougars bopping around in the East and those government bastards are trying to make it look like it was only this one.

[Drewbot]

I cant wait to read this, what are the comments saying?

[dropzone]

There was a time when I read the chronicles of "White" folk held by "Indians" 300 years ago. What it described was a world filled with people covering 30 miles a day. It happened. Probably the only animal that might leave us in the dust is the wolf.

[dropzone]

Parcher, accept that there is no significant genetic difference between the Eastern Cougar and the Western Cougar and leave this alone. Animals screw, especially if they are closely related.

[Drewbot]

Originally Posted by dropzone

Parcher, accept that there is no significant genetic difference between the Eastern Cougar and the Western Cougar and leave this alone. Animals screw, especially if they are closely related.

I think he accepts this. His point is: that there is no breeding population of COUGARS in the east. Correct me if I'm wrong on that WP.

(Other than the Florida population of course)

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by dropzone

Parcher, accept that there is no significant genetic difference between the Eastern Cougar and the Western Cougar and leave this alone. Animals screw, especially if they are closely related.

Attack of the Non Sequiturs From Left Field.

[Drewbot]

This guy says it perfectly;

Quote:

Hynes wrote that the matter provides good insight on the status of cougars in the region.
"It is interesting to note that this one lone mountain lion passing through New York was detected and confirmed through track photographs and DNA (and also detected and confirmed several times in other states), which is good evidence that if a population of mountain lions lived in the northeastern U.S. they would likely be detected,"

Read more: http://poststar.com/news/blotter/dec...#ixzz1WhhNkWXO

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Attack of the Non Sequiturs From Left Field.

how typically dismissive

[leonAzul]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

how typically dismissive

mikeyx, please accept that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is using the word "extinct" in this context to describe a category of breeding population, not a taxonomic species nor clade, in order to most effectively allocate conservation resources.

In the sense that your comments fail to grasp the significance of context, they do indeed represent a non sequitur.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by leonAzul

mikeyx, please accept that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is using the word "extinct" in this context to describe a category of breeding population, not a taxonomic species nor clade, in order to most effectively allocate conservation resources.

In the sense that your comments fail to grasp the significance of context, they do indeed represent a non sequitur.

no, you guys accept that Parcher and others are dickering over semantics. This is but one of many injustices going on here.

[Drewbot]

MikeyX Parcher has clearly stated the position he subscribes to. It is a position from logic and common sense. Your position is that of anecdotal testimony and emotional outrage. It is clear you cannot comprehend the simple, straightforward arguments being presented.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

MikeyX Parcher has clearly stated the position he subscribes to. It is a position from logic and common sense. Your position is that of anecdotal testimony and emotional outrage. It is clear you cannot comprehend the simple, straightforward arguments being presented.

nope, just that your egos wont let you stop beating a semantical horse to death.

[Drewbot]

It's not semantical.

You believe there are cougars breeding in the East, Parcher does not. How is it semantical?

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

It's not semantical.

You believe there are cougars breeding in the East, Parcher does not. How is it semantical?

No, I beleive they are here and the body proves it. You haven't proven the impossibility, you just presume to state my beliefs for me, which should be worth an infraction, and neither you or Parcher addressed sufficiently the subspecies vs. extinction argument. YOU were the one who said Eastern and Western were genetically indistinguishable.

[LTC8K6]

The body proves that one traveled here. It's not the same.

It's like having a bird fly to where it isn't supposed to be found and then claiming that bird is normally found there.

[The Shrike]

If one would like to recognize an "eastern" (non-Peninsular Florida) subspecies of cougar as distinct from the "western" form, so be it. The available evidence suggests that all native cougars in the eastern U.S. north of peninsular Florida were hunted to extinction in the early 20th Century.

In recent decades, anecdotal accounts of cougars in the region say, east of the Great Plains and north of Florida have been almost universally erroneous. For the very small number of cases in which the sightings could be confirmed as a real animal, the source has been released South/Central American stock or dispersers from the western U.S. Even the cougars that have been confirmed in the eastern U.S. have not been confirmed to be part of the "eastern" subspecies.

Thus, the declaration of the "eastern" cougar's extinction is fully supported by the available data. Although it is always a tricky business to decide when the lack of new evidence for a species leads one to conclude the species is extinct, there is nothing to suggest that the "eastern" subspecies persists anywhere.

This declaration, however, does NOT mean that there are no cougars in the eastern U.S. We are seeing, especially over the last 5 years or so, cougars showing up and being confirmed in the East. Thusfar, there is no evidence of a breeding population, only wandering individuals dispersing far outside their normal range. Could there be one outside, I don't know, Charlotte, NC today? Sure, but there's no evidence for one there, and where cougars go they leave evidence.

One can take the information on long-range dispersal in cougars and presume that there is a small number of "cougars in the East." William Parcher's contention is that such a presumption is presumptuous - where cougars go they leave evidence. Unless we have that evidence, we should presume that cougars are NOT there. I tend to agree with him, but am willing to allow that there may be a couple of cougars in the East who might have sneaked in under the radar - their inevitable confirmation awaits.

I don't see what's so difficult about this?

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

The body proves that one traveled here. It's not the same.

It's like having a bird fly to where it isn't supposed to be found and then claiming that bird is normally found there.

That doesnt address one poster's stated another's belief's without accuracy.

Edited to say; Don't tell me what I believe...... and the breeding thing is mute if the South AMerican progenitor accounts for the populations east and west. It's not extinct, it's just rare in the east. The rest is backpedaling over semantics.

[The Shrike]

There's no such thing as a breeding population of cougars in the eastern U.S. anymore, outside of Peninsular Florida. There hasn't been for decades. That could change in the future, but as of today, there's simply no evidence that this is happening.

(And the word is "moot", btw.)

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

That doesnt address one poster's stated another's belief's without accuracy.

Edited to say; Don't tell me what I believe...... and the breeding thing is mute if the South AMerican progenitor accounts for the populations east and west. It's not extinct, it's just rare in the east. The rest is backpedaling over semantics.

Cougars are extinct in the eastern US, with the exception of the Florida version.

There now, I didn't say "Eastern Cougar".

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Cougars are extinct in the eastern US, with the exception of the Florida version.

There now, I didn't say "Eastern Cougar".

Bull puckey, body found, they drop by if nothing else, and even if a western they are genetically the same many of you said so, done.

parcher, wrong.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Bull puckey, body found, they drop by if nothing else, and even if a western they are genetically the same many of you said so, done.

parcher, wrong.

I leave NC to drop by my relatives in PA too. If a SEPTA bus takes me out, it doesn't mean that I lived in Philly.

[Drewbot]

There is no population of cougars in the east. (other than FL)

There was a cougar in the East, it is dead.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

There is no population of cougars in the east. (other than FL)

There was a cougar in the East, it is dead.

over simplification and dismissive.

[Old man]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

over simplification and dismissive.

But concise and absolutely true.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Old man

But concise and absolutely true.

Nope just more proof that Parcher brand skepticism

a) cant see past the tip of his own nose
b) this whole began as a veiled shot at footers, his favorite pastime.

This forum says education, not insults.

[Old man]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Nope just more proof that Parcher brand skepticism

a) cant see past the tip of his own nose
b) this whole began as a veiled shot at footers, his favorite pastime.

This forum says education, not insults.

Yes, it does, and that's what people are trying to do.

Unfortunately, you can't tell the difference between the two.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

b) this whole began as a veiled shot at footers, his favorite pastime.

There's no need to veil shots against 'footers. They should be called out for their irrational beliefs just like any other group facing scrutiny in this forum.

Out-of-range cougars are very much relevant to discussions of bigfoot, because when you really examine the data, you find that the vast majority of reported sightings are based on misidentifications and other non-cougar explanations. The story of the CT cougar is especially relevant because it illustrates that when a real cougar does occur someplace unexpected, it leaves undeniable physical evidence behind, and in this case this happened multiple times along the animal's dispersal route.

Think about that. Just one, individual cougar was trackable as it dispersed away from its normal range. Now consider the centuries over which not a single piece of any of the entire populations of bigfoots that should have lived and died has ever been recovered and confirmed.

[Drewbot]

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Nope just more proof that Parcher brand skepticism

a) cant see past the tip of his own nose
b) this whole began as a veiled shot at footers, his favorite pastime.

This forum says education, not insults.

MikeyX, you are obsessed with how Parcher portrays footers, and ignoring the simple facts. When there is a cougar in the heavily populated, heavily driven eastern and Northeastern states, the situation gets resolved quickly. You can't deny that. Either they will find evidence of the existing cougar, or the cougar will end up dead in short order.

Do you think that there is a population of cougars evading human discovery? If this is so, then it is a distinct parallel between BIGFOOTERS, and YOURSELF.
Sorry for the following TEXTBURG
Both bigfooters, and yourself, would have to accept that a population of top predators, each being the largest of their respective order or family, on the continent, the Cougar of the Felidae family, and the Bigfoot of the Primate order, is intentionally avoiding discovery by humans, in one of the most explored, and utilized areaa of the world. The two beasts are not only avoiding discovery, but are not yielding any confirmatory evidence of their existence. The comparison is valid and true. You would rather try to label Parcher's comparison as invalid because of the nature of the comparison itself, than try to defend against Parcher's valid comparison with facts.

You are saying something like this: "PARCHER, your argument has no merit, because you are making fun of Bigfooters in the same breath as you are declaring no cougar population exists in the Eastern United States, therefore you are wrong, and I don't have to provide evidence of a breeding population."

I forget what this tactic is called, but I do think it is a known argument fallacy.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

MikeyX, you are obsessed with how Parcher portrays footers, and ignoring the simple facts. When there is a cougar in the heavily populated, heavily driven eastern and Northeastern states, the situation gets resolved quickly. You can't deny that. Either they will find evidence of the existing cougar, or the cougar will end up dead in short order.

Do you think that there is a population of cougars evading human discovery? If this is so, then it is a distinct parallel between BIGFOOTERS, and YOURSELF.
Sorry for the following TEXTBURG
Both bigfooters, and yourself, would have to accept that a population of top predators, each being the largest of their respective order or family, on the continent, the Cougar of the Felidae family, and the Bigfoot of the Primate order, is intentionally avoiding discovery by humans, in one of the most explored, and utilized areaa of the world. The two beasts are not only avoiding discovery, but are not yielding any confirmatory evidence of their existence. The comparison is valid and true. You would rather try to label Parcher's comparison as invalid because of the nature of the comparison itself, than try to defend against Parcher's valid comparison with facts.

You are saying something like this: "PARCHER, your argument has no merit, because you are making fun of Bigfooters in the same breath as you are declaring no cougar population exists in the Eastern United States, therefore you are wrong, and I don't have to provide evidence of a breeding population."

I forget what this tactic is called, but I do think it is a known argument fallacy.

No I am making the point that parcher couldn't make his point about cougars without getting in a dig at footers. You can stop trying to be my psychotherapist anytime btw.