Alien visitation and negative universals

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 01:54 PM

A negative universal is a claim to the effect of "X does not exist." If X were impossible, then X would not be able to exist, however if X is possible then the only way to prove that X does not exist (supposedly) is to look in the domain where X is supposed to be but notice it's absence. That would be feasible for small domains: a room if you're looking for a turtle, but for a domain such as the universe it would be hard to check.

I believe negative universals weaken the claim that aliens have not visited us due to the fact that one could not easily check all of human history to notice the absence, nor all places around Earth. What are your thoughts on this?

The Great Zaganza · 9th March 2018, 01:56 PM

Cellphone cameras.

The Greater Fool · 9th March 2018, 01:57 PM

Bored on this Friday afternoon, eh?

Hellbound · 9th March 2018, 02:00 PM

I believe pink bubble gum should be bubble gum flavored, not some weird kiwi-cherry or something.

I also believe Russell's teapot was chartreuse.

fagin · 9th March 2018, 02:04 PM

Turtle/snake. What's next?

Loss Leader · 9th March 2018, 02:04 PM

Third thread with the same logical mistake.

The claim isn't, "There are no aliens." The claim is, "I see no reason to believe in alien visitation without evidence." If you have no evidence, you have nothing.

fagin · 9th March 2018, 02:05 PM

ps answer here.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=327680

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Third thread with the same logical mistake.

The claim isn't, "There are no aliens." The claim is, "I see no reason to believe in alien visitation without evidence." If you have no evidence, you have nothing.

Would it be fair to say that the argument between skeptics and believers has reached a stalemate with all the tricks being exhausted?

Kings Full · 9th March 2018, 02:16 PM

/subscribe

: popcorn :

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:21 PM

This thread seemed to have died immediately. With that in mind, what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens? I know it's not a very strong argument, but I'm just curious.

fagin · 9th March 2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

Would it be fair to say that the argument between skeptics and believers has reached a stalemate with all the tricks being exhausted?

There are no tricks, show me the money or STFU.

fagin · 9th March 2018, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

This thread seemed to have died immediately. With that in mind, what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens? I know it's not a very strong argument, but I'm just curious.

Trump works for the government and lies every time he opens his mouth.

Next...

MikeG · 9th March 2018, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

........what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens?..........

Evidence that any such thing has ever happened?

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by MikeG

Evidence that any such thing has ever happened?

You mean evidence that whistle blowers have come forward or evidence that what they are saying is true? I can give you evidence of the first but not much for the second.

MikeG · 9th March 2018, 02:34 PM

The first. Be careful.

Kings Full · 9th March 2018, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

You mean evidence that whistle blowers have come forward or evidence that what they are saying is true? I can give you evidence of the first but not much for the second.

By 'not much' you mean what exactly?

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kings Full

By 'not much' you mean what exactly?

I haven't researched the whistleblower's claims or evidence so I can't really say how strong their case is.

William Parcher · 9th March 2018, 02:40 PM

The aliens may have come to visit the earth every day of the week back when we had dinosaurs. Some of those alien dudes may have grifted and charged admission fees to other aliens when an earth visit was supposed to be free. We don't know if that happened. We don't see obvious evidence that there was alien dinosaur-watching but we can't really know.

The other thing we can't really know is if aliens came here to have secret sex. This would be like when you were a youngster and you took your girlfriend somewhere private to be able to feel her body under her clothes but not have other people knowing that you did it. There were hidden or remote places that you could walk or ride your bikes or even drive to do that sort of thing. Earth may have been a place where aliens fooled around with each other, so to speak.

It makes you think and really wonder. A person could think about this so intensely that they stop paying their mortgage or stop buying food for their children. It really makes you stop and think.

This forum is for people who stop and think. Like you.

MikeG · 9th March 2018, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

I haven't researched the whistleblower's claims or evidence so I can't really say how strong their case is.

There's an implied acceptance in this sentence of at least the claim that they are whistleblowers. That is enough to suggest that you aren't approaching their story with sufficient scepticism. I'd need evidence that they are who they claim they are, worked for who they claimed they worked for, and that they had access to whatever they claim access to........before I even got to the stage of calling them a whistleblower, let alone giving any credence to their claims.

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by MikeG

The first. Be careful.

This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors:

http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by MikeG

There's an implied acceptance in this sentence of at least the claim that they are whistleblowers. That is enough to suggest that you aren't approaching their story with sufficient scepticism. I'd need evidence that they are who they claim they are, worked for who they claimed they worked for, and that they had access to whatever they claim access to........before I even got to the stage of calling them a whistleblower, let alone giving any credence to their claims.

Well, I don't believe them, it just makes one wonder.

fagin · 9th March 2018, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors:

http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp

Sounds like a badly written comedy sketch.

"M CASEY: Well, it appears everyone is, but as you will see Mr President, this stuff is pretty high up on the food chain. We call it ATS or "Above Top Secret." This stuff has its own classification and markings. We have a special container, special printers and copiers for this stuff. Every word of this material is printed on special paper then placed inside special covers. The caretakers have taken special efforts to protect all of this stuff from being released inadvertently or copied by some unauthorized person."

Sooper sekrit.

Jack by the hedge · 9th March 2018, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

This is from a whistleblowers website ...

Is "whistleblowers website" really the appropriate term?

Might I suggest "UFO fan fiction project" instead?

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by fagin

Sounds like a badly written comedy sketch.

"M CASEY: Well, it appears everyone is, but as you will see Mr President, this stuff is pretty high up on the food chain. We call it ATS or "Above Top Secret." This stuff has its own classification and markings. We have a special container, special printers and copiers for this stuff. Every word of this material is printed on special paper then placed inside special covers. The caretakers have taken special efforts to protect all of this stuff from being released inadvertently or copied by some unauthorized person."

Sooper sekrit.

Make of it what you will.

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Is "whistleblowers website" really the appropriate term?

Might I suggest "UFO fan fiction project" instead?

I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have?

MikeG · 9th March 2018, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

Well, I don't believe them

Good.

Quote:

it just makes one wonder.

Changed your mid already, I see.

MikeG · 9th March 2018, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

This is from a whistleblowers website

No, a UFO site

Quote:

and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors:.........

Wow. That's overwhelming. You've convinced me.

dasmiller · 9th March 2018, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors:

http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp

I concur with fagin. To first blush, it looks very fictional. Without going into specifics, that whole discussion about the classification (5th & 6th paragraphs) looks like it was made up by someone with very little experience with classified programs.

And the dialog looks . . . amateurish in places.

And the science is just wrong.

abaddon · 9th March 2018, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have?

We have actual fan fiction. What evidence do you have for your claims?

sphenisc · 9th March 2018, 03:35 PM

As to the logic of the OP, the equivalent argument applies to positive Universal's "X exists everywhere". It is the universality that's relevant not the parity.

abaddon · 9th March 2018, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

Make of it what you will.

Well, no, we don't have to do that because we have a public site of the same name. Said site throws out any amount of crankery. The fact that this supposed report name drops ATS is a big hint. Go to ATS if you value your sanity so little. But I bet you are a denizen there already.

ETA: Bet you read GLP too.

Jack by the hedge · 9th March 2018, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have?

I have an opinion that it's fan fiction, because that's what it looks like to me.

That opinion is formed in part by the evidence we have for alien visitations, which is of course none.

fibbermcgee · 9th March 2018, 03:58 PM

According to wikipedia:
"Project Serpo is a science fiction fantasy launched as though true onto several UFO-oriented web forums starting in November 2005. Gullible UFO "researchers" such as Bill Ryan, Kerry Cassidy and Linda Moulton Howe were totally bamboozled by this fiction. Author Len Kasten swallowed the story so ..."

fagin · 9th March 2018, 04:03 PM

Oops.

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Well, no, we don't have to do that because we have a public site of the same name. Said site throws out any amount of crankery. The fact that this supposed report name drops ATS is a big hint. Go to ATS if you value your sanity so little. But I bet you are a denizen there already.

ETA: Bet you read GLP too.

What's GLP?

Wonder234 · 9th March 2018, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

I have an opinion that it's fan fiction, because that's what it looks like to me.

That opinion is formed in part by the evidence we have for alien visitations, which is of course none.

Do you consciously make an effort to believe only when evidence is favorable? I think that people don't really choose what to believe but are convinced of something. I lean towards belief that aliens have visited us because I don't think it's that unlikely. Give a civilization a million more years than ours and perhaps they can figure out a way to get around traveling faster than light. If they can get to Earth in a matter of months, weeks, or days, then there's a good chance they've visited us provided there's a lot of them. Do you really not believe aliens have not visited us because you only believe what you have evidence for or could it be something else? (I know that there's the whole thing about it seeming improbable, but considering what I've written a few sentences ago, it's probably not that improbable)

StackOverflow · 9th March 2018, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

Do you consciously make an effort to believe only when evidence is favorable? I think that people don't really choose what to believe but are convinced of something. I lean towards belief that aliens have visited us because I don't think it's that unlikely. Give a civilization a million more years than ours and perhaps they can figure out a way to get around traveling faster than light. If they can get to Earth in a matter of months, weeks, or days, then there's a good chance they've visited us provided there's a lot of them. Do you really not believe aliens have not visited us because you only believe what you have evidence for or could it be something else? (I know that there's the whole thing about it seeming improbable, but considering what I've written a few sentences ago, it's probably not that improbable)

The light of the sun is highly lethal for every living being except those who live on planet earth. therefore it is impossible that aliens have ever visited us. This is a fact, provided that everything I wrote before is true.

Kings Full · 9th March 2018, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

Do you consciously make an effort to believe only when evidence is favorable? I think that people don't really choose what to believe but are convinced of something. I lean towards belief that aliens have visited us because I don't think it's that unlikely. Give a civilization a million more years than ours and perhaps they can figure out a way to get around traveling faster than light. If they can get to Earth in a matter of months, weeks, or days, then there's a good chance they've visited us provided there's a lot of them. Do you really not believe aliens have not visited us because you only believe what you have evidence for or could it be something else? (I know that there's the whole thing about it seeming improbable, but considering what I've written a few sentences ago, it's probably not that improbable)

The Milky Way galaxy is ~ 100K LYs in diameter. Even if you travelled at 10x SoL it would take 10K years to traverse. Our nearest galaxy, Andromeda, is ~ 2.5M LYs away... do the math.

At best humans will travel to Mars, and I have my doubts that will actually happen. Space is an extremely hostile environment for humans and all vertebrates for that matter. There's no reason, whatsoever, to think it would be different for any species advanced enough to attempt it.

Not to mention the psychological implications of spending years, or a lifetime, aboard a relatively small craft.

The whole concept is preposterous. Unless, of course, you have a FM pill....

kellyb · 9th March 2018, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Wonder234

I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have?

Heya, Wonder.

I was an admin on the world's biggest UFO forum (alien-ufos/alien hub) for years and years. I started off "agnostic" on the topic when I started looking into ufos, and became increasingly skeptical of the evidence as time went on.

There really isn't any great evidence that we've been visited, although the strength of the evidence is kind of in the eye of the beholder, sometimes.

The strongest evidence favoring the "something has gone on" side is in the declassified military/air force transcripts and files. Pilots really were reporting some weird stuff, and saying things like "Whatever that is, it's moving in a way that nothing from Earth can!" (I personally think it might have been a small outbreak of true mass hysteria, or something like that.)

There are lots of now now confirmed as military aircraft sightings, too, that once looked like "proof" of UFOs.

So: my rule of thumb is, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Because of that, I think it's far more likely than not that the still-unexplained stuff has some mundane explanation.

Axxman300 · 9th March 2018, 07:23 PM

If you can't prove it, you can't make definitive claims of it happening.

Thems the rules.

9th March 2018, 01:54 PM	#1
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Alien visitation and negative universals A negative universal is a claim to the effect of "X does not exist." If X were impossible, then X would not be able to exist, however if X is possible then the only way to prove that X does not exist (supposedly) is to look in the domain where X is supposed to be but notice it's absence. That would be feasible for small domains: a room if you're looking for a turtle, but for a domain such as the universe it would be hard to check. I believe negative universals weaken the claim that aliens have not visited us due to the fact that one could not easily check all of human history to notice the absence, nor all places around Earth. What are your thoughts on this?
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 01:56 PM	#2
The Great Zaganza Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,735	Cellphone cameras.
	__________________ "When someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES"!"

9th March 2018, 01:57 PM	#3
The Greater Fool Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way Posts: 3,401	Bored on this Friday afternoon, eh?
	__________________ - "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']

9th March 2018, 02:04 PM	#5
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	Turtle/snake. What's next?
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 02:04 PM	#6
Loss Leader Do you want to date my Avatar? Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 25,000	Third thread with the same logical mistake. The claim isn't, "There are no aliens." The claim is, "I see no reason to believe in alien visitation without evidence." If you have no evidence, you have nothing.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

9th March 2018, 02:00 PM	#4
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Somewhere between the central U.S. and Hades Posts: 12,168	I believe pink bubble gum should be bubble gum flavored, not some weird kiwi-cherry or something. I also believe Russell's teapot was chartreuse.

9th March 2018, 02:05 PM	#7
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	ps answer here. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=327680
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 02:12 PM	#8
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Third thread with the same logical mistake. The claim isn't, "There are no aliens." The claim is, "I see no reason to believe in alien visitation without evidence." If you have no evidence, you have nothing. Would it be fair to say that the argument between skeptics and believers has reached a stalemate with all the tricks being exhausted?
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 02:16 PM	#9
Kings Full Scholar Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Texas Posts: 122	/subscribe : popcorn :

9th March 2018, 02:21 PM	#10
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	This thread seemed to have died immediately. With that in mind, what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens? I know it's not a very strong argument, but I'm just curious.
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 02:22 PM	#11
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	Originally Posted by Wonder234 Would it be fair to say that the argument between skeptics and believers has reached a stalemate with all the tricks being exhausted? There are no tricks, show me the money or STFU.
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 02:23 PM	#12
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	Originally Posted by Wonder234 This thread seemed to have died immediately. With that in mind, what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens? I know it's not a very strong argument, but I'm just curious. Trump works for the government and lies every time he opens his mouth. Next...
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 02:30 PM	#13
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 22,832	Originally Posted by Wonder234 ........what do you have to say about various whistleblowers who've worked for the government and came out and claimed to have witnessed aliens?.......... Evidence that any such thing has ever happened?
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

9th March 2018, 02:33 PM	#14
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by MikeG Evidence that any such thing has ever happened? You mean evidence that whistle blowers have come forward or evidence that what they are saying is true? I can give you evidence of the first but not much for the second.
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 02:34 PM	#15
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 22,832	The first. Be careful.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

9th March 2018, 02:35 PM	#16
Kings Full Scholar Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Texas Posts: 122	Originally Posted by Wonder234 You mean evidence that whistle blowers have come forward or evidence that what they are saying is true? I can give you evidence of the first but not much for the second. By 'not much' you mean what exactly?

9th March 2018, 02:39 PM	#17
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by Kings Full By 'not much' you mean what exactly? I haven't researched the whistleblower's claims or evidence so I can't really say how strong their case is.
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 02:40 PM	#18
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 19,724	The aliens may have come to visit the earth every day of the week back when we had dinosaurs. Some of those alien dudes may have grifted and charged admission fees to other aliens when an earth visit was supposed to be free. We don't know if that happened. We don't see obvious evidence that there was alien dinosaur-watching but we can't really know. The other thing we can't really know is if aliens came here to have secret sex. This would be like when you were a youngster and you took your girlfriend somewhere private to be able to feel her body under her clothes but not have other people knowing that you did it. There were hidden or remote places that you could walk or ride your bikes or even drive to do that sort of thing. Earth may have been a place where aliens fooled around with each other, so to speak. It makes you think and really wonder. A person could think about this so intensely that they stop paying their mortgage or stop buying food for their children. It really makes you stop and think. This forum is for people who stop and think. Like you.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

9th March 2018, 02:43 PM	#19
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 22,832	Originally Posted by Wonder234 I haven't researched the whistleblower's claims or evidence so I can't really say how strong their case is. There's an implied acceptance in this sentence of at least the claim that they are whistleblowers. That is enough to suggest that you aren't approaching their story with sufficient scepticism. I'd need evidence that they are who they claim they are, worked for who they claimed they worked for, and that they had access to whatever they claim access to........before I even got to the stage of calling them a whistleblower, let alone giving any credence to their claims.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

9th March 2018, 02:48 PM	#20
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by MikeG The first. Be careful. This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors: http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 02:50 PM	#21
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by MikeG There's an implied acceptance in this sentence of at least the claim that they are whistleblowers. That is enough to suggest that you aren't approaching their story with sufficient scepticism. I'd need evidence that they are who they claim they are, worked for who they claimed they worked for, and that they had access to whatever they claim access to........before I even got to the stage of calling them a whistleblower, let alone giving any credence to their claims. Well, I don't believe them, it just makes one wonder.
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 03:00 PM	#22
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	Originally Posted by Wonder234 This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors: http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp Sounds like a badly written comedy sketch. "M CASEY: Well, it appears everyone is, but as you will see Mr President, this stuff is pretty high up on the food chain. We call it ATS or "Above Top Secret." This stuff has its own classification and markings. We have a special container, special printers and copiers for this stuff. Every word of this material is printed on special paper then placed inside special covers. The caretakers have taken special efforts to protect all of this stuff from being released inadvertently or copied by some unauthorized person." Sooper sekrit.
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 03:19 PM	#23
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 8,898	Originally Posted by Wonder234 This is from a whistleblowers website ... Is "whistleblowers website" really the appropriate term? Might I suggest "UFO fan fiction project" instead?

9th March 2018, 03:19 PM	#24
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by fagin Sounds like a badly written comedy sketch. "M CASEY: Well, it appears everyone is, but as you will see Mr President, this stuff is pretty high up on the food chain. We call it ATS or "Above Top Secret." This stuff has its own classification and markings. We have a special container, special printers and copiers for this stuff. Every word of this material is printed on special paper then placed inside special covers. The caretakers have taken special efforts to protect all of this stuff from being released inadvertently or copied by some unauthorized person." Sooper sekrit. Make of it what you will.
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 03:24 PM	#25
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge Is "whistleblowers website" really the appropriate term? Might I suggest "UFO fan fiction project" instead? I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have?
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221

9th March 2018, 03:25 PM	#26
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 22,832	Originally Posted by Wonder234 Well, I don't believe them Good. Quote: it just makes one wonder. Changed your mid already, I see.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

9th March 2018, 03:26 PM	#27
MikeG Now. Do it now. Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: UK Posts: 22,832	Originally Posted by Wonder234 This is from a whistleblowers website No, a UFO site Quote: and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors:......... Wow. That's overwhelming. You've convinced me.
	__________________ "The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.

9th March 2018, 03:32 PM	#28
dasmiller Just the right amount of cowbell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon Posts: 5,804	Originally Posted by Wonder234 This is from a whistleblowers website and is supposedly a transcript of a briefing to Ronald Reagan informing him of general information about alien visitors: http://www.serpo.org/release27a.asp I concur with fagin. To first blush, it looks very fictional. Without going into specifics, that whole discussion about the classification (5th & 6th paragraphs) looks like it was made up by someone with very little experience with classified programs. And the dialog looks . . . amateurish in places. And the science is just wrong.
	__________________ "In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

9th March 2018, 03:32 PM	#29
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,501	Originally Posted by Wonder234 I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have? We have actual fan fiction. What evidence do you have for your claims?
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

9th March 2018, 03:35 PM	#30
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,652	As to the logic of the OP, the equivalent argument applies to positive Universal's "X exists everywhere". It is the universality that's relevant not the parity.
sphenisc Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,652	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

9th March 2018, 03:39 PM	#31
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,501	Originally Posted by Wonder234 Make of it what you will. Well, no, we don't have to do that because we have a public site of the same name. Said site throws out any amount of crankery. The fact that this supposed report name drops ATS is a big hint. Go to ATS if you value your sanity so little. But I bet you are a denizen there already. ETA: Bet you read GLP too.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... Last edited by abaddon; 9th March 2018 at 03:41 PM.

9th March 2018, 03:43 PM	#32
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 8,898	Originally Posted by Wonder234 I don't know either way. But if you say it's fan fiction what evidence do you have? I have an opinion that it's fan fiction, because that's what it looks like to me. That opinion is formed in part by the evidence we have for alien visitations, which is of course none.

9th March 2018, 03:58 PM	#33
fibbermcgee Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 88	According to wikipedia: "Project Serpo is a science fiction fantasy launched as though true onto several UFO-oriented web forums starting in November 2005. Gullible UFO "researchers" such as Bill Ryan, Kerry Cassidy and Linda Moulton Howe were totally bamboozled by this fiction. Author Len Kasten swallowed the story so ..."
fibbermcgee Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 88

9th March 2018, 04:03 PM	#34
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 5,726	Oops.
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

9th March 2018, 06:18 PM	#35
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221	Originally Posted by abaddon Well, no, we don't have to do that because we have a public site of the same name. Said site throws out any amount of crankery. The fact that this supposed report name drops ATS is a big hint. Go to ATS if you value your sanity so little. But I bet you are a denizen there already. ETA: Bet you read GLP too. What's GLP?
Wonder234 Thinker Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 221