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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , alternative facts , Denmark economy , fake news , Fox Business , media criticism , socialism , Trish Regan , USA economy , Venezuela economy

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Old 13th August 2018, 12:00 PM   #1
dann
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Denmark = Venezuela?!

Kristian Jensen, the Danish Minister of Finance, isn't happy about a recent Fox Business report from Trish Regan claiming that "Denmark, like Venezuela, has stripped people of their opportunities.":
Kristian Jensen about Fox host: She shouldn't piss on Denmark (B.T., Aug. 13, 2018)
Fox News: ”Something’s rotten in Denmark” (msn.com, Aug. 13, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 13th August 2018 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 13th August 2018, 04:39 PM   #2
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You expect reasoned thoughtful business analysis from the All-Trump-All-The-Time Fox network?

Sheesh!
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Old 13th August 2018, 04:51 PM   #3
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So were any of the claims about Denmark in the video true? I'll go with no unless someone show me otherwise.

Ranb
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Old 13th August 2018, 11:57 PM   #4
dann
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You expect reasoned thoughtful business analysis from the All-Trump-All-The-Time Fox network?

No, not at all!
Still, I'm surprised at the amount of lying. And her attitude! She sounds like the TV hosts in The Hunger Games.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:19 AM   #5
dann
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
So were any of the claims about Denmark in the video true?

She starts out all right:
The top federal tax rate actually is 56 %, VAT is 25%, and there’s a 180% tax on cars. ”You pay more in taxes than you do on the actual car.” True! (But I don’t see the problem.)

But then it goes from all right to alt-right, i.e. she basically says what should happen now according to her ideology, even though it doesn’t actually happen. However, in her delusion, it does:

”No one wants to work. This is a real problem.”
Like in most other countries, everybody has to work – unless they’re very rich! You can survive on welfare, but you can’t lead a pleasant life.

Then she has this quotation: ”Only 3 in 98 municipalities have a majority of people working in 2013.”

I don't know about that. It may be true if you look at everybody: children, college students, retired people, etc.

”But you see, not only is school free, …” – the HORROR!!! – ”… but they actually pay you.”

They do?! Yes, in high school and college they do, but not much. (And again: What’s the problem?!)

”But you know what happens? Nobody graduates from school, they just stay in school longer and longer and longer. What’s supposed to take you five years just takes everyone 6+ years. Because that’s the reality of socialism.”

No, that is not at all the reality of what she calls socialism:
The average number of years in college back in the 1970s and ’80s was 10-11, mainly because we had to work, so ”longer and longer” is an absurd lie. Nowadays, 6+ sounds probable. (By the way, in the 1970s and ’80s it was supposed to have been 6 years instead of 10-11!)

And then she pokes fun at this state of affairs by claiming that all graduates ”want to start cup-cake cafés.” She laughs heartily at her own joke, but it’s obviously written by somebody who’s spent too much time watching too many episodes of 2 Broke Girls.
I’m a high-school teacher, and I haven’t heard any students of mine say that they wanted to start cup-cake cafés.

I can’t imagine that propaganda in North Korea is further from reality than this drivel! I think she may actually be contributing to turning young Americans on to socialism!

By the way, you should take a look at the Facebook comments. There are some good ones from what appears to be ordinary Danes!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th August 2018 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:27 AM   #6
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Why Fox Business comparison between Denmark and Venezuela is built on fallacy (TheLocal.dk, Aug. 13, 2018)

Quote:
According to the Organanization for Economic Cooperation and Development the U.S. is No. 20 in a ranking of national employment rates, while Denmark ranks eighth. When it comes to income equality, Denmark has the sixth-best distribution, while the U.S. is ranked seventh from the bottom, just above Turkey. In work-life-balance, Denmark ranks second-highest in the OECD (just after the Netherlands), while the U.S. ranks ninth from the bottom.
Fox News Item Draws an Angry Reaction from the Danish Government (Bloomberg, Aug. 14, 2018)

Quote:
So Danes don’t wants to work? 11 places better than US in OECD statistics! We are working much more than Americans and at the same time ranking as the worlds best in Work-Life-Balance. You should come to Denmark if you dare be confronted with facts ‪@trish_regan
Danish Minister of Finance, Kristian Jensen (Twitter, Aug. 13, 2013)

ETA: Forgive him for "don't works" and "the worlds best". English is not his native language! Don't forgive him for the welfare cuts that he and his party have enforced.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th August 2018 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by dann View Post

Then she has this quotation: ”Only 3 in 98 municipalities have a majority of people working in 2013.”

I don't know about that. It may be true if you look at everybody: children, college students, retired people, etc.
Danish employment rate - 75.0% of working age population

US employment rate - 70.6%


https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate.htm
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:29 AM   #8
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It's odd that she'd say that nobody graduates and then say that they stay in school for six years. That sounds like they graduate after six years.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
It's odd that she'd say that nobody graduates and then say that they stay in school for six years. That sounds like they graduate after six years.
Minor nit, it could mean they never actually get a degree they just kind of quit going. One of the big issues with US junior colleges is that people never "graduate". The go for a year or two and then just leave rather than getting a credential. Markedly reduces the value.

Probably not the case here, they probably do just take 6 years to graduate.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:56 AM   #10
dann
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Quote:
I’ve never agreed with anything @trish_regan or pretty much anyone at @FoxNews has ever said. But any sentence that begins with “Denmark, like Venezuela...” is particularly hilarious.
Former U.S. ambassador to Denmark, Rufus Gifford on Twitter

Quote:
In August 2018, Regan likened Denmark to Venezuela, and argued that "there’s something rotten in Denmark".[3] During the segment, Regan sought that demonstrate that the economic model in Denmark was infeasible.[4] During the segment, she made a number of false claims about Denmark, including saying "everyone in Denmark is working for the government" and "no-one wants to work."[3] The segment stirred controversy in Denmark with news outlets, politicians and the Danish government responding to the segment, correcting some of the falsehoods while also noting that relative to the United States, Denmark is more highly ranked on indicators of economic freedom, ease-of-doing-business, happiness, and has higher employment figures.
Trish Regan: Fox (Wikipedia, Aug. 14, 2018)

Fox Business Anchor Trish Regan Regrets Not Taking More Maternity Leave (10 News, Mar. 29, 2018)

Maybe she should go to Denmark, then! (No, actually, she should stay the hell away from here!)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:58 AM   #11
dann
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Minor nit, it could mean they never actually get a degree they just kind of quit going.

We don't need degrees! We're all busy baking & serving cup cakes!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 07:00 AM   #12
dann
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
That sounds like they graduate after six years.
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Probably not the case here, they probably do just take 6 years to graduate.

Don't forget the +!!! That's important! It took me 20 years, but many of those years I was working full time instead of taking classes ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 07:09 AM   #13
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What's wrong with selling cupcakes? Why does Fox hate capitalism?
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Old 14th August 2018, 07:28 AM   #14
Roboramma
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Minor nit, it could mean they never actually get a degree they just kind of quit going. One of the big issues with US junior colleges is that people never "graduate". The go for a year or two and then just leave rather than getting a credential. Markedly reduces the value.

Probably not the case here, they probably do just take 6 years to graduate.
I thought of that too so I watched the video, shortly after that comment she talks about "after they graduate" which is even more odd given her initial statement.
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Old 14th August 2018, 07:31 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
What's wrong with selling cupcakes? Why does Fox hate capitalism?
"Those Danish university graduates are wasting their degrees by becoming entrepreneurs, this is the real danger of socialism!"
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Old 14th August 2018, 07:40 AM   #16
ahhell
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Don't forget the +!!! That's important! It took me 20 years, but many of those years I was working full time instead of taking classes ...
I don't judge, I technically started undergrad at 19 and finished at 32. There was a 6 year break for the Navy but still. I also got my MS at 43.
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Old 14th August 2018, 08:08 AM   #17
dann
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The Danish embassy in the USA has published a fact sheet. But instead of comparing Denmark and Venezuela, the comparison is with the USA.

ETA:
Quote:
Dear @trish_regan. We did some quick research on #Denmark’s global rankings (https://t.co/IYtJ4jU2th). Useful context to your story abt state of affairs in my country. Go see for yourself (we would love to assist) although lack of cupcake cafés probl will be disappointing pic.twitter.com/BwU1wukSsV
— Lars Gert Lose (@DKambUSA)

Denmark’s Ambassador in the USA Answers Fox Host (DR.dk, Aug. 13, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 14th August 2018 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 14th August 2018, 08:12 AM   #18
dann
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
"Those Danish university graduates are wasting their degrees by becoming entrepreneurs, this is the real danger of socialism!"

Or maybe it's the danger of cupcakes ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:43 PM   #19
dann
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Interesting Snopes article: Dueling Memes Debate Denmark’s Social Infrastructure (Snopes, Oct. 20, 2015)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:07 PM   #20
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Aaah, the land of my ancestors! 1/4 of them, anyhow.

Do they currently have a racist idiot as head of state? Denmark wins.
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Old 14th August 2018, 08:09 PM   #21
dann
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Trish Regan didn't tell any lies about Venezuela and Denmark. She was merely "pointing out (!) that socialism is not the way."
Fox Business News' Trish Regan issues correction for Denmark-Venezuela comment (msn.com, Aug. 14, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th August 2018, 03:06 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Trish Regan didn't tell any lies about Venezuela and Denmark. She was merely "pointing out (!) that socialism is not the way."
Fox Business News' Trish Regan issues correction for Denmark-Venezuela comment (msn.com, Aug. 14, 2018)
By telling creative falsehoods?
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Old 15th August 2018, 08:34 AM   #23
dann
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Yes. When something is as evil as taxation of the rich, you're entitled to lie about it.
The weird thing is that Kristian Jensen and his party Venstre probably share most of Trish Regan's opinions, but now it has become a question of national pride to them to defend the Danish so-called welfare state. That's not something we are used to hearing them say, but Trish Regan's extremism made them do it!
Anders Fogh Rasmussen, a former Danish prime minister and leader of Venstre, used to be "a strident critic of the welfare state" (Wikipedia). At one point his son was in play to work for Trump and daddy praised Trump accordingly …

If I were Sanders (Bernie, not Sarah Huckabee), I would pick it up and run with it immediately.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 15th August 2018, 09:17 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
By telling creative falsehoods?
I'm sure she was Just Asking Questions!
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Old 15th August 2018, 11:55 PM   #25
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Surprising development

Now that some of the facts of the Danish economy have come to the attention of US American journalists, Denmark is embraced as a capitalist economy and presented as an offer to US Americans flirting with socialism: This is what capitalism can do for you! (So why doesn’t it?!)

Quote:
Denmark is actually a profoundly capitalist and free-market economy and society. Actually, it's more capitalist than the United States.
Both Trish Regan and the Bernie Bros need to know Denmark isn't socialist (Washington Examiner, Aug. 15, 2018)

I can't wait to hear what they'll say if they ever find out that Venezuela is capitalist, too, and as such is governed by the forces of the globalized market economy!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 16th August 2018 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
We don't need degrees! We're all busy baking & serving cup cakes!
And makin' bacon.

Nomnom.
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:36 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Now that some of the facts of the Danish economy have come to the attention of US American journalists, Denmark is embraced as a capitalist economy and presented as an offer to US Americans flirting with socialism: This is what capitalism can do for you! (So why doesn’t it?!)




I can't wait to hear what they'll say if they ever find out that Venezuela is capitalist, too, and as such is governed by the forces of the globalized market economy!
My understanding is that the Venezuelan economy is now pretty much run by the state.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:41 AM   #28
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'Something is rotten at Fox News' – politicians respond to Trish Regan’s hilarious rant about Denmark’s socialist dystopia (Business Insider - Nordic, Aug. 15, 2018)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th August 2018, 02:43 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
My understanding is that the Venezuelan economy is now pretty much run by the state.

It would like to, I think, but since its finances are based on the world market oil prices, it doesn't really run anything.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th August 2018, 04:41 AM   #30
dann
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Trish Regan: ”But you see, not only is school free, …” – the HORROR!!! – ”… but they actually pay you.”

They do?! Yes, in high school and college they do, but not much. (And again: What’s the problem?!)

This morning some of my high-school students told me that when they're 18 years old and living with their parents, they receive DKK 943 a month = USD 143.84, but only if they pass their exams. Otherwise, they won't receive anything. Danish high school takes three years, typically from the age of 15/16 to 18/19, so most high-school students don't get this money till their last school year.
University students get DKK 5,300 a month = USD 804.59.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 16th August 2018, 05:02 AM   #31
dann
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Fox Business Took a Shot at Denmark. Denmark Fired Back. (NYT, Aug. 15, 2018)
Fox Business Host's Attempt To Warn Of Perils Of Denmark's Socialism Backfires: 'AT LEAST GET THE SHAKESPEARE QUOTE RIGHT, TRISH'. (HuffPost, Aug. 13, 2018)
Danish government pushes back on Fox Business report ripping 'socialist' Denmark (The Hill, Aug. 14, 2018)
Fox host tries to bash socialism in Denmark and gets her ass handed to her by Denmark officials (thetrumpimpeachment.com, Aug. 14, 2018)
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 16th August 2018 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 16th August 2018, 09:54 AM   #32
carlitos
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You don't need cupcakes in Denmark; just look for ÆbleskiverWP

Quote:
any sentence that begins with “Denmark, like Venezuela...” is particularly hilarious.
LOL.
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Old 16th August 2018, 09:55 AM   #33
Hans
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Aaah, the land of my ancestors! 1/4 of them, anyhow.

Do they currently have a racist idiot as head of state? Denmark wins.
OH I SEE

One of those 'quarter' louts. we 'halves' looked down upon you with disdain and strive to reach the glorious perfection of the 100% (the 3/4'ers are swine and we don't speak of them).
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Old 16th August 2018, 09:56 AM   #34
carlitos
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carlitos is also a 1/2 dane.
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Old 16th August 2018, 10:50 PM   #35
Norman Alexander
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And the next Danish queen is Australian.
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
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Old 17th August 2018, 07:11 AM   #36
Hans
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And the next Danish queen is Australian.
That should raise the culture level significantly!
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Old 17th August 2018, 07:14 AM   #37
Hans
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
carlitos is also a 1/2 dane.
Well!

Eres perfecto para la atmósfera actual, tú y tu monstruoso ser.
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Old 17th August 2018, 08:19 AM   #38
dann
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
That should raise the culture level significantly!

Yes, she has been very willing and able to learn!
How about the rest of you halvdanskere?!
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th August 2018, 08:37 AM   #39
dann
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Fox Business host compares Denmark to Venezuela, gets slammed as ‘fake news’ (Market Watch, Aug, 16, 2018)
Fox News ridiculed for comparing Denmark to Venezuela (The Independent, Aug. 17, 2018)
Trish Regan on Twitter
Danish News in Brief: Was Denmark’s reaction to Fox News beneath them? (CPH Post, Aug. 15, 2018)
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th August 2018, 08:46 AM   #40
dann
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You don't need cupcakes in Denmark; just look for ÆbleskiverWP

Are you familiar with the Æbleskive song?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

(It may not work; I'm not sure. You may have to buy it.)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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