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Old 5th April 2021, 03:23 PM   #361
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Which brands because all these products are produced in the US: Arizona, do you know where your toilet paper comes from?
You assume I am in the US.

If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too.
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Old 5th April 2021, 04:09 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It seems generally less. But both canals have a complex toll system. So maybe there are cases where it would more.
True, and the Panama Canal also requires a good bit more operational input - you can't just go through it, but locks need to be operated, locomotives and longshoremen deployed, and so forth. And, of course, the saving over going around the horn is likely much greater too. But still, considering the length and importance of the Suez, it's likely a pretty good deal.
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Old 5th April 2021, 05:57 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You assume I am in the US.

If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too.
That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land.

Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business.
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:20 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land.

Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business.
How do you explain Walmart?
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:33 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
How do you explain Walmart?
Apples and oranges. There are hundreds of paper and pulp mills in the US. The raw materials are here. Making TP is not labor intensive. And then you have to add the shipping costs to the US. It seems as if it would be very challenging for China would be cost competitive.
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Old 5th April 2021, 11:45 PM   #366
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From last April. https://www.globaltrademag.com/toile...can-obsession/
Quote:
The vast bulk of the toilet paper Americans use is domestically produced. According to the market forecasting firm IndexBox, just 7.5 percent of Americans’ bathroom tissue is imported. Even so, the United States is still the world’s largest importer of toilet tissue, accounting for 9.4 percent of global imports, according to MIT Media Lab’s Observatory of Economic Complexity (OEC). China, meanwhile is the world’s largest exporter, followed by Germany, Japan, Poland and Italy. China, does not, however, export much of its toilet paper to the United States; rather, 80 percent of Chinese exports end up in other parts of Asia, Africa and Europe. What toilet paper the United States does import comes primarily from Canada and Mexico.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:29 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
Funny, my husband works from home for very little, but his work has slowed as a direct result of the blockage.
Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband.

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Old 6th April 2021, 06:51 AM   #368
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I have read of people getting Mexican toilet paper during the crunch, though I've avoided that so far. We did, however, get some Mexican paper towels when that was the only thing available. They were not only very basic, but the roll was not as wide and didn't fit the dispenser.
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Old 6th April 2021, 07:55 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
How do you explain Walmart? : confused :
How do I explain Walmart what?

How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that.

At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all.

How do you explain Walmart?
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Old 6th April 2021, 08:18 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How do I explain Walmart what?

How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that.

At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all.

How do you explain Walmart?
Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular).

PS. The USA does actually import some TP from China. Not a huge percentage but 55K tonnes in 2018. Per: https://www.indexbox.io/blog/which-c...-in-the-world/

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Old 6th April 2021, 08:35 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular).
Hopefully you already know the answer to this one. Walmart imports from China when the Chinese product is more plentiful and/or cheaper than the domestic product. Is this really something you needed acbytesla to explain to you?

(And why weren't you referring to TP in particular? acbytesla was very clearly talking about TP in particular.)
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:34 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Interesting since that sort of contradicts my info. Do you have a cite? What I read was the US is the largest exporter of paper products but not specifically toilet paper. But things change. Makes a little sense since bidets are very common in Europe and pretty much non-existent in the US.
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:37 PM   #373
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I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though.
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:50 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though.
Most US traffic from China is via the Pacific anyway.
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:55 PM   #375
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There’s a few other factors to consider though. One is logistically, the entire US is still recovering from the Texas and East coast freeze. Two is a massive, massive over forecast of hand sanitizer and wipes by virtually every retailer in the US.

What that means is there’s a huge trailer shortage and full warehouses. This obviously doesn’t help stuff move around
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:57 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Actually they could have reopened the Canal the same day, just by dropping three more ships and clearing all four lines at once. But all the cargo would have disappeared.
Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid.
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:57 PM   #377
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I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines?

One US product that uses the Canal pretty regularly is not a good, but a service: US Navy vessels.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:04 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It seems like a lot, but I think it's less than the Panama Canal.

Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:08 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid.
Heh.

Isn't it all bars, though?
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:25 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Heh.

Isn't it all bars, though?
Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris.

1:This job is kinda boring.

2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games?

1:Sure, but still.

2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid!

1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them.

2: Yeah, just like Tetris.

1: No, not at all.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:46 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris.

1:This job is kinda boring.

2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games?

1:Sure, but still.

2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid!

1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them.

2: Yeah, just like Tetris.

1: No, not at all.
On the other hand, the system of routing and stacking containers in such a way as to reduce the number of moves to get a container from ship to train is pretty complex and probably fascinating to the right kind of mind.

I've had the pleasure of hanging out at the Port of Long Beach, watching a container crane offlload containers from a ship, to a parade of yard trucks that would whisk them away to the train yard. I assume there must have been automated scans, manifest cross-checks, and scheduled movements ensuring that each of those boxes got where it was going as efficiently as reasonably possible. At that point, you're not so much tetrising the boxes themselves. You're tetrising boxes, time slots, trucks, trains, ships, and crews. And just like the videogame, it just keeps going.

---

Any IT nerds here? It used to bug me, seeing long lines of train cars sitting idly on a siding somewhere. "Shouldn't those cars be rolling down the track, earning money for someone? Who buys hundreds of train cars and then lets them sit idle for days at a time?"

Recently I realized that the train system is really just a giant frame-relay network, and these cars are packet frames in a router buffer, waiting for their turn on the "wire".

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Old 6th April 2021, 02:53 PM   #382
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I have a friend that worked as a conductor for a freight train company. He had to take a series of tests to get the job on how to rearrange the train cars to get them on different engines in different orders using the switches and rails in a certain number of moves. It can get pretty complicated and it’s not something you want to be making mistakes on.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:59 PM   #383
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They made him play Towers of Hanoi?
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Old 6th April 2021, 03:02 PM   #384
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Uh, yeah I suppose so lol

Edit

The rules are probably a bit different though.

Last edited by dirtywick; 6th April 2021 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 6th April 2021, 03:08 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines?
I can't imagine much. Train traffic in the US decreased when the Panama expansion was completed in 2016. East Coast ports expanded to accommodate the Neo-Panamax ships.

The Neo-Panamax ships make the Canal vulnerable to an incident like the Evergiven. They are so big that one way traffic is the only way to pass through the Culebra Cut.
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Old 6th April 2021, 03:29 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun.
Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:43 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating.
I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed.

Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it.

My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road.
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Old 6th April 2021, 05:03 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed.

Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it.

My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road.
I think a significant amount of goods coming into and out of Texas may pass through there. But again, the consequences of the freeze of Texas are still being sorted out, this just compounds that. There's truckloads of stuff waiting to be unloaded into warehouses that are full that are waiting on trucks to come to load into that are full of stuff waiting to be unloaded, etc. And you can't start making new products until the warehouse space is freed up, leading to layoffs and less demand from suppliers for new raw materials, etc.

Bottlenecking a major shipping lane doesn't help alleviate any of that.
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Old 7th April 2021, 04:20 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband.

Dave
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Old 13th April 2021, 03:58 PM   #390
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Egypt impounds the ship for compensation
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Old 13th April 2021, 08:07 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post

This article overlooks one aspect which the WaPo article included;

Not only is the ship being held hostage. So are the crew.

Quote:
Twenty-five crew members, all Indian nationals, remain stuck on board.

...

But the National Union of Seafarers in India argues that refusing to let the crew off the ship amounts to holding them for ransom. “If the SCA has suffered losses, they can sort it out with those involved with the ship,” Abdulgani Serang, the union’s general secretary, told the Times of India on Sunday.
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Old 13th April 2021, 09:51 PM   #392
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Whoa. That is an important detail.
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Old 13th April 2021, 10:03 PM   #393
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What about the cargo? Still aboard?
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Old Yesterday, 04:15 AM   #394
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If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners.

There was a ship and crew impounded in Great Yarmouth for eighteen months, It was being held for unpaid port fees.

There were four crew members and the captain aboard, they were being fed by locals and were growing food in planters on the deck.
If the captain and crew had left the ship it would have been deemed a 'derelict' and they wouldn't have been paid.

In the end it was sold by the Admiralty Marshall and the proceeds used to pay the debts and crew wages.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-45604944

I remember a similar case at Teesport about twelve years ago, a ship was impounded for six months in similar circumstances.

In that case the crew wjust left and flew home, the ship was again sold by the Admiralty Marshall and went straight for scrap, it was old and not worth selling on, no one wanted it.

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Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners.

<snip>

Does that require all twenty five of them?
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Old Yesterday, 01:22 PM   #396
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No but in the short term they will want to stay aboard to finish their contracts and get paid.
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Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No but in the short term they will want to stay aboard to finish their contracts and get paid.
They'd have already reached their next port by now (Germany?)... whatever their contracts, what happens if the ship breaks down in port? Does the company get them another berth for the remainder?
Can the company rotate in other crew as the ship is held for restitution?
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM   #398
Captain_Swoop
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
They'd have already reached their next port by now (Germany?)... whatever their contracts, what happens if the ship breaks down in port? Does the company get them another berth for the remainder?
Can the company rotate in other crew as the ship is held for restitution?
It would depend on what the terms were.
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Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM   #399
theprestige
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
They made him play Towers of Hanoi?
It seems like Towers of Hanoi is an abstraction of a whole class of ordered-information problems.
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Old Yesterday, 02:13 PM   #400
Elagabalus
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Aaaaaaaargh! The demanded compensation seems a might high, it do! I suspect there's some lawyerin' and manoevrin' afloat!
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