Suez Canal blocked by stuck ship. - Page 10

Captain_Swoop · 5th April 2021, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Which brands because all these products are produced in the US: Arizona, do you know where your toilet paper comes from?

You assume I am in the US.

If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too.

bruto · 5th April 2021, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It seems generally less. But both canals have a complex toll system. So maybe there are cases where it would more.

True, and the Panama Canal also requires a good bit more operational input - you can't just go through it, but locks need to be operated, locomotives and longshoremen deployed, and so forth. And, of course, the saving over going around the horn is likely much greater too. But still, considering the length and importance of the Suez, it's likely a pretty good deal.

acbytesla · 5th April 2021, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

You assume I am in the US.

If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too.

That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land.

Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business.

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th April 2021, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land.

Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business.

How do you explain Walmart?

acbytesla · 5th April 2021, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

How do you explain Walmart?

Apples and oranges. There are hundreds of paper and pulp mills in the US. The raw materials are here. Making TP is not labor intensive. And then you have to add the shipping costs to the US. It seems as if it would be very challenging for China would be cost competitive.

zooterkin · 5th April 2021, 11:45 PM

From last April. https://www.globaltrademag.com/toile...can-obsession/

Quote:

The vast bulk of the toilet paper Americans use is domestically produced. According to the market forecasting firm IndexBox, just 7.5 percent of Americans’ bathroom tissue is imported. Even so, the United States is still the world’s largest importer of toilet tissue, accounting for 9.4 percent of global imports, according to MIT Media Lab’s Observatory of Economic Complexity (OEC). China, meanwhile is the world’s largest exporter, followed by Germany, Japan, Poland and Italy. China, does not, however, export much of its toilet paper to the United States; rather, 80 percent of Chinese exports end up in other parts of Asia, Africa and Europe. What toilet paper the United States does import comes primarily from Canada and Mexico.

Dave Rogers · 6th April 2021, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Carlotta

Funny, my husband works from home for very little, but his work has slowed as a direct result of the blockage.

Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband.

Dave

bruto · 6th April 2021, 06:51 AM

I have read of people getting Mexican toilet paper during the crunch, though I've avoided that so far. We did, however, get some Mexican paper towels when that was the only thing available. They were not only very basic, but the roll was not as wide and didn't fit the dispenser.

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

How do you explain Walmart? : confused :

How do I explain Walmart what?

How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that.

At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all.

How do you explain Walmart?

Gord_in_Toronto · 6th April 2021, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

How do I explain Walmart what?

How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that.

At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all.

How do you explain Walmart?

Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular).

PS. The USA does actually import some TP from China. Not a huge percentage but 55K tonnes in 2018. Per: https://www.indexbox.io/blog/which-c...-in-the-world/

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular).

Hopefully you already know the answer to this one. Walmart imports from China when the Chinese product is more plentiful and/or cheaper than the domestic product. Is this really something you needed acbytesla to explain to you?

(And why weren't you referring to TP in particular? acbytesla was very clearly talking about TP in particular.)

acbytesla · 6th April 2021, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

From last April. https://www.globaltrademag.com/toile...can-obsession/

Interesting since that sort of contradicts my info. Do you have a cite? What I read was the US is the largest exporter of paper products but not specifically toilet paper. But things change. Makes a little sense since bidets are very common in Europe and pretty much non-existent in the US.

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 01:37 PM

I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though.

Captain_Swoop · 6th April 2021, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though.

Most US traffic from China is via the Pacific anyway.

dirtywick · 6th April 2021, 01:55 PM

There’s a few other factors to consider though. One is logistically, the entire US is still recovering from the Texas and East coast freeze. Two is a massive, massive over forecast of hand sanitizer and wipes by virtually every retailer in the US.

What that means is there’s a huge trailer shortage and full warehouses. This obviously doesn’t help stuff move around

Dr. Keith · 6th April 2021, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Actually they could have reopened the Canal the same day, just by dropping three more ships and clearing all four lines at once. But all the cargo would have disappeared.

Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid.

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 01:57 PM

I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines?

One US product that uses the Canal pretty regularly is not a good, but a service: US Navy vessels.

Elagabalus · 6th April 2021, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

It seems like a lot, but I think it's less than the Panama Canal.

Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun.

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid.

Heh.

Isn't it all bars, though?

Dr. Keith · 6th April 2021, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Heh.

Isn't it all bars, though?

Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris.

1:This job is kinda boring.

2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games?

1:Sure, but still.

2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid!

1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them.

2: Yeah, just like Tetris.

1: No, not at all.

theprestige · 6th April 2021, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris.

1:This job is kinda boring.

2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games?

1:Sure, but still.

2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid!

1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them.

2: Yeah, just like Tetris.

1: No, not at all.

On the other hand, the system of routing and stacking containers in such a way as to reduce the number of moves to get a container from ship to train is pretty complex and probably fascinating to the right kind of mind.

I've had the pleasure of hanging out at the Port of Long Beach, watching a container crane offlload containers from a ship, to a parade of yard trucks that would whisk them away to the train yard. I assume there must have been automated scans, manifest cross-checks, and scheduled movements ensuring that each of those boxes got where it was going as efficiently as reasonably possible. At that point, you're not so much tetrising the boxes themselves. You're tetrising boxes, time slots, trucks, trains, ships, and crews. And just like the videogame, it just keeps going.

---

Any IT nerds here? It used to bug me, seeing long lines of train cars sitting idly on a siding somewhere. "Shouldn't those cars be rolling down the track, earning money for someone? Who buys hundreds of train cars and then lets them sit idle for days at a time?"

Recently I realized that the train system is really just a giant frame-relay network, and these cars are packet frames in a router buffer, waiting for their turn on the "wire".

dirtywick · 6th April 2021, 02:53 PM

I have a friend that worked as a conductor for a freight train company. He had to take a series of tests to get the job on how to rearrange the train cars to get them on different engines in different orders using the switches and rails in a certain number of moves. It can get pretty complicated and it’s not something you want to be making mistakes on.

RecoveringYuppy · 6th April 2021, 02:59 PM

They made him play Towers of Hanoi?

dirtywick · 6th April 2021, 03:02 PM

Uh, yeah I suppose so lol

Edit

The rules are probably a bit different though.

acbytesla · 6th April 2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines?

I can't imagine much. Train traffic in the US decreased when the Panama expansion was completed in 2016. East Coast ports expanded to accommodate the Neo-Panamax ships.

The Neo-Panamax ships make the Canal vulnerable to an incident like the Evergiven. They are so big that one way traffic is the only way to pass through the Culebra Cut.

acbytesla · 6th April 2021, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun.

Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating.

bruto · 6th April 2021, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating.

I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed.

Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it.

My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road.

dirtywick · 6th April 2021, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed.

Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it.

My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road.

I think a significant amount of goods coming into and out of Texas may pass through there. But again, the consequences of the freeze of Texas are still being sorted out, this just compounds that. There's truckloads of stuff waiting to be unloaded into warehouses that are full that are waiting on trucks to come to load into that are full of stuff waiting to be unloaded, etc. And you can't start making new products until the warehouse space is freed up, leading to layoffs and less demand from suppliers for new raw materials, etc.

Bottlenecking a major shipping lane doesn't help alleviate any of that.

Carlotta · 7th April 2021, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband.

Dave

RecoveringYuppy · 13th April 2021, 03:58 PM

Egypt impounds the ship for compensation

quadraginta · 13th April 2021, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Egypt impounds the ship for compensation

This article overlooks one aspect which the WaPo article included;

Not only is the ship being held hostage. So are the crew.

Quote:

Twenty-five crew members, all Indian nationals, remain stuck on board.

...

But the National Union of Seafarers in India argues that refusing to let the crew off the ship amounts to holding them for ransom. “If the SCA has suffered losses, they can sort it out with those involved with the ship,” Abdulgani Serang, the union’s general secretary, told the Times of India on Sunday.

RecoveringYuppy · 13th April 2021, 09:51 PM

Whoa. That is an important detail.

Trebuchet · 13th April 2021, 10:03 PM

What about the cargo? Still aboard?

Captain_Swoop · Yesterday, 04:15 AM

If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners.

There was a ship and crew impounded in Great Yarmouth for eighteen months, It was being held for unpaid port fees.

There were four crew members and the captain aboard, they were being fed by locals and were growing food in planters on the deck.
If the captain and crew had left the ship it would have been deemed a 'derelict' and they wouldn't have been paid.

In the end it was sold by the Admiralty Marshall and the proceeds used to pay the debts and crew wages.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-45604944

I remember a similar case at Teesport about twelve years ago, a ship was impounded for six months in similar circumstances.

In that case the crew wjust left and flew home, the ship was again sold by the Admiralty Marshall and went straight for scrap, it was old and not worth selling on, no one wanted it.

quadraginta · Yesterday, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners.

<snip>

Does that require all twenty five of them?

Captain_Swoop · Yesterday, 01:22 PM

No but in the short term they will want to stay aboard to finish their contracts and get paid.

Jim_MDP · Yesterday, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

No but in the short term they will want to stay aboard to finish their contracts and get paid.

They'd have already reached their next port by now (Germany?)... whatever their contracts, what happens if the ship breaks down in port? Does the company get them another berth for the remainder?
Can the company rotate in other crew as the ship is held for restitution?

Captain_Swoop · Yesterday, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Jim_MDP

They'd have already reached their next port by now (Germany?)... whatever their contracts, what happens if the ship breaks down in port? Does the company get them another berth for the remainder?
Can the company rotate in other crew as the ship is held for restitution?

It would depend on what the terms were.

theprestige · Yesterday, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

They made him play Towers of Hanoi?

It seems like Towers of Hanoi is an abstraction of a whole class of ordered-information problems.

Elagabalus · Yesterday, 02:13 PM

Aaaaaaaargh! The demanded compensation seems a might high, it do! I suspect there's some lawyerin' and manoevrin' afloat!

5th April 2021, 04:09 PM	#362
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,220	Originally Posted by acbytesla It seems generally less. But both canals have a complex toll system. So maybe there are cases where it would more. True, and the Panama Canal also requires a good bit more operational input - you can't just go through it, but locks need to be operated, locomotives and longshoremen deployed, and so forth. And, of course, the saving over going around the horn is likely much greater too. But still, considering the length and importance of the Suez, it's likely a pretty good deal.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

5th April 2021, 05:57 PM	#363
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,590	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop You assume I am in the US. If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too. That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land. Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

5th April 2021, 09:20 PM	#364
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,589	Originally Posted by acbytesla That's not a good assumption. The United States is 40 times the size of the UK. We have vast forests. The UK likely imports most of its paper products. The US on the other hand is the largest exporter of paper products in the world. I live in Washington State, you would be in awe of the huge forests. And Canada has even more forest land. Sure, it is possible we get some from China, but the cost of shipping something from China that we have a lot of doesn't seem like good business. How do you explain Walmart?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

5th April 2021, 09:33 PM	#365
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,590	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto How do you explain Walmart? Apples and oranges. There are hundreds of paper and pulp mills in the US. The raw materials are here. Making TP is not labor intensive. And then you have to add the shipping costs to the US. It seems as if it would be very challenging for China would be cost competitive.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

5th April 2021, 11:45 PM	#366
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,840	From last April. https://www.globaltrademag.com/toile...can-obsession/ Quote: The vast bulk of the toilet paper Americans use is domestically produced. According to the market forecasting firm IndexBox, just 7.5 percent of Americans’ bathroom tissue is imported. Even so, the United States is still the world’s largest importer of toilet tissue, accounting for 9.4 percent of global imports, according to MIT Media Lab’s Observatory of Economic Complexity (OEC). China, meanwhile is the world’s largest exporter, followed by Germany, Japan, Poland and Italy. China, does not, however, export much of its toilet paper to the United States; rather, 80 percent of Chinese exports end up in other parts of Asia, Africa and Europe. What toilet paper the United States does import comes primarily from Canada and Mexico.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

5th April 2021, 03:23 PM	#361
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,723	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Which brands because all these products are produced in the US: Arizona, do you know where your toilet paper comes from? You assume I am in the US. If we are getting it in the UK I am sure you are getting some in the US too.

6th April 2021, 02:29 AM	#367
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,422	Originally Posted by Carlotta Funny, my husband works from home for very little, but his work has slowed as a direct result of the blockage. Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

6th April 2021, 06:51 AM	#368
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,220	I have read of people getting Mexican toilet paper during the crunch, though I've avoided that so far. We did, however, get some Mexican paper towels when that was the only thing available. They were not only very basic, but the roll was not as wide and didn't fit the dispenser.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

6th April 2021, 07:55 AM	#369
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto How do you explain Walmart? : confused : How do I explain Walmart what? How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that. At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all. How do you explain Walmart?

6th April 2021, 08:18 AM	#370
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,589	Originally Posted by theprestige How do I explain Walmart what? How do I explain Walmart importing its toilet paper inventory from China? That begs the question that Walmart actually imports its TP inventory from China. If your question is why they do that, you'll need to start by showing that they do in fact do that. At first glance, it looks like US TP manufacturers manufacture their products in North America. I'd be very surprised if the Charmin on Walmart's shelves is coming from China -- or is even manufactured there at all. How do you explain Walmart? Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular). PS. The USA does actually import some TP from China. Not a huge percentage but 55K tonnes in 2018. Per: https://www.indexbox.io/blog/which-c...-in-the-world/
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

6th April 2021, 08:35 AM	#371
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Don't be silly. I don't have to explain. I'm asking the question. (And I wasn't referring to TP in particular). Hopefully you already know the answer to this one. Walmart imports from China when the Chinese product is more plentiful and/or cheaper than the domestic product. Is this really something you needed acbytesla to explain to you? (And why weren't you referring to TP in particular? acbytesla was very clearly talking about TP in particular.)

6th April 2021, 01:34 PM	#372
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,590	Originally Posted by zooterkin From last April. https://www.globaltrademag.com/toile...can-obsession/ Interesting since that sort of contradicts my info. Do you have a cite? What I read was the US is the largest exporter of paper products but not specifically toilet paper. But things change. Makes a little sense since bidets are very common in Europe and pretty much non-existent in the US.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 6th April 2021 at 01:36 PM.

6th April 2021, 01:37 PM	#373
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though.

6th April 2021, 01:50 PM	#374
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,723	Originally Posted by theprestige I assume there's always some edge cases in our global economy. I doubt there's enough Chinese toilet paper coming to North America via Suez to make a difference in price at the store, though. Most US traffic from China is via the Pacific anyway.

6th April 2021, 01:55 PM	#375
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333	There’s a few other factors to consider though. One is logistically, the entire US is still recovering from the Texas and East coast freeze. Two is a massive, massive over forecast of hand sanitizer and wipes by virtually every retailer in the US. What that means is there’s a huge trailer shortage and full warehouses. This obviously doesn’t help stuff move around
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333

6th April 2021, 01:57 PM	#376
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,944	Originally Posted by theprestige Actually they could have reopened the Canal the same day, just by dropping three more ships and clearing all four lines at once. But all the cargo would have disappeared. Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

6th April 2021, 01:57 PM	#377
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines? One US product that uses the Canal pretty regularly is not a good, but a service: US Navy vessels.

6th April 2021, 02:04 PM	#378
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,012	Originally Posted by bruto It seems like a lot, but I think it's less than the Panama Canal. Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun.
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 7,012

6th April 2021, 02:08 PM	#379
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Right, like you are ever going to get four bars in row. So, stupid. Heh. Isn't it all bars, though?

6th April 2021, 02:25 PM	#380
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,944	Originally Posted by theprestige Heh. Isn't it all bars, though? Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris. 1:This job is kinda boring. 2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games? 1:Sure, but still. 2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid! 1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them. 2: Yeah, just like Tetris. 1: No, not at all.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

6th April 2021, 02:46 PM	#381
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,622	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Yeah, but reality makes for a crappy game of Tetris. 1:This job is kinda boring. 2:I thought you loved Tetris-like games? 1:Sure, but still. 2: Well, you get to play all day and get paid! 1: But it's not really a game, they're all 20 ft or 40 ft containers and they lock together when I stack them. 2: Yeah, just like Tetris. 1: No, not at all. On the other hand, the system of routing and stacking containers in such a way as to reduce the number of moves to get a container from ship to train is pretty complex and probably fascinating to the right kind of mind. I've had the pleasure of hanging out at the Port of Long Beach, watching a container crane offlload containers from a ship, to a parade of yard trucks that would whisk them away to the train yard. I assume there must have been automated scans, manifest cross-checks, and scheduled movements ensuring that each of those boxes got where it was going as efficiently as reasonably possible. At that point, you're not so much tetrising the boxes themselves. You're tetrising boxes, time slots, trucks, trains, ships, and crews. And just like the videogame, it just keeps going. --- Any IT nerds here? It used to bug me, seeing long lines of train cars sitting idly on a siding somewhere. "Shouldn't those cars be rolling down the track, earning money for someone? Who buys hundreds of train cars and then lets them sit idle for days at a time?" Recently I realized that the train system is really just a giant frame-relay network, and these cars are packet frames in a router buffer, waiting for their turn on the "wire".
	Last edited by theprestige; 6th April 2021 at 02:49 PM.

6th April 2021, 02:53 PM	#382
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333	I have a friend that worked as a conductor for a freight train company. He had to take a series of tests to get the job on how to rearrange the train cars to get them on different engines in different orders using the switches and rails in a certain number of moves. It can get pretty complicated and it’s not something you want to be making mistakes on.
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333

6th April 2021, 02:59 PM	#383
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,988	They made him play Towers of Hanoi?

6th April 2021, 03:02 PM	#384
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333	Uh, yeah I suppose so lol Edit The rules are probably a bit different though.
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333	Last edited by dirtywick; 6th April 2021 at 03:03 PM.

6th April 2021, 03:08 PM	#385
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,590	Originally Posted by theprestige I wonder what kinds of goods actually do pass to/from the US via Suez. At what point does it become cheaper to throw it on a train to the East Coast, and thence across the Atlantic and through Suez? India? Malaysia? The Philippines? I can't imagine much. Train traffic in the US decreased when the Panama expansion was completed in 2016. East Coast ports expanded to accommodate the Neo-Panamax ships. The Neo-Panamax ships make the Canal vulnerable to an incident like the Evergiven. They are so big that one way traffic is the only way to pass through the Culebra Cut.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

6th April 2021, 03:29 PM	#386
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,590	Originally Posted by Elagabalus Panama just added more locks so more overhead and Panama seems like it would be more fun. Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

6th April 2021, 04:43 PM	#387
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,220	Originally Posted by acbytesla Have you been through the Panama Canal? It's fascinating. I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed. Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it. My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

6th April 2021, 05:03 PM	#388
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333	Originally Posted by bruto I went through a few years ago. It is indeed fascinating. Very well choreographed. Quite some construction, as well. Parts of the original canal are still in operation. The folks who mixed the concrete and whatnot did a pretty good job of it. My guess on what US goods come through the Suez Canal is not many, but I think raw materials for Asian manufacturers probably do, so while the effect may be delayed, it wouldn't surprise me if it does influence prices and supplies of manufactured goods down the road. I think a significant amount of goods coming into and out of Texas may pass through there. But again, the consequences of the freeze of Texas are still being sorted out, this just compounds that. There's truckloads of stuff waiting to be unloaded into warehouses that are full that are waiting on trucks to come to load into that are full of stuff waiting to be unloaded, etc. And you can't start making new products until the warehouse space is freed up, leading to layoffs and less demand from suppliers for new raw materials, etc. Bottlenecking a major shipping lane doesn't help alleviate any of that.
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,333

7th April 2021, 04:20 PM	#389
Carlotta Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 492	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Reading that directly after a post on toilet paper made me feel momentarily very sorry for your husband. Dave

13th April 2021, 03:58 PM	#390
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,988	Egypt impounds the ship for compensation

13th April 2021, 08:07 PM	#391
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,272	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Egypt impounds the ship for compensation This article overlooks one aspect which the WaPo article included; Not only is the ship being held hostage. So are the crew. Quote: Twenty-five crew members, all Indian nationals, remain stuck on board. ... But the National Union of Seafarers in India argues that refusing to let the crew off the ship amounts to holding them for ransom. “If the SCA has suffered losses, they can sort it out with those involved with the ship,” Abdulgani Serang, the union’s general secretary, told the Times of India on Sunday.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

13th April 2021, 09:51 PM	#392
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,988	Whoa. That is an important detail.

13th April 2021, 10:03 PM	#393
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,279	What about the cargo? Still aboard?
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

Yesterday, 04:15 AM	#394
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,723	If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners. There was a ship and crew impounded in Great Yarmouth for eighteen months, It was being held for unpaid port fees. There were four crew members and the captain aboard, they were being fed by locals and were growing food in planters on the deck. If the captain and crew had left the ship it would have been deemed a 'derelict' and they wouldn't have been paid. In the end it was sold by the Admiralty Marshall and the proceeds used to pay the debts and crew wages. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-45604944 I remember a similar case at Teesport about twelve years ago, a ship was impounded for six months in similar circumstances. In that case the crew wjust left and flew home, the ship was again sold by the Admiralty Marshall and went straight for scrap, it was old and not worth selling on, no one wanted it.
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; Yesterday at 04:19 AM.

Yesterday, 11:32 AM	#395
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,272	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop If the crew leave then the ship is 'derelict' and the local maritime authority would become the owners. <snip> Does that require all twenty five of them?
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."