IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Ghislaine Maxwell , Jeffrey Epstein , sex trafficking

Reply
Old 16th July 2020, 11:40 AM   #81
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 12,989
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
OK. But I did say "rich enough". A bribe or two here and there. Rental or theft of a stealth helicopter. Pick up from an open area. Flight into international waters. Transfer to Liberian registered ship. And away we go. Is there anything that cannot be bought with money?

And, don't forget she "has" a lot of scandalous information on lots of important people who might be coerced to cooperate.

A "stealth" helicopter, if they even exist, would have a reduced radar signature. That wouldn't keep people from seeing it. And since she's locked up in Brooklyn, there's no open area. If anybody could have escaped, it would have been El Chapo. And he didn't.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 03:19 PM   #82
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 71,033
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
That's once you've established it was in Australia. Sure, once you start looking in Australia, it might not take long, but how do you know that's where to look?
If they're an Australian citizen, then the records would be here regardless of where the marriage actually took place. If they're not a citizen, then yeah you'd be right.
__________________
We will meet them on the beach, we will meet them on the phone hook-ups.
- Scott Morrison, probably
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 03:38 PM   #83
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 50,616
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If they're an Australian citizen, then the records would be here regardless of where the marriage actually took place. If they're not a citizen, then yeah you'd be right.
Wouldn't someone have to proactively register the marriage in Australia, and forward the records there?

I mean, if an Australian citizen gets married in the US, the officiant is going to file the records with their local jurisdiction. What's the process that guarantees Australia gets a copy of that filing?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 03:43 PM   #84
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 71,033
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wouldn't someone have to proactively register the marriage in Australia, and forward the records there?

I mean, if an Australian citizen gets married in the US, the officiant is going to file the records with their local jurisdiction. What's the process that guarantees Australia gets a copy of that filing?
Honestly, I'm not sure. But I'm about 85% certain that it does somehow. If someone can demonstrate that I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
__________________
We will meet them on the beach, we will meet them on the phone hook-ups.
- Scott Morrison, probably
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 03:59 PM   #85
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 29,608
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If they're an Australian citizen, then the records would be here regardless of where the marriage actually took place. If they're not a citizen, then yeah you'd be right.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wouldn't someone have to proactively register the marriage in Australia, and forward the records there?

I mean, if an Australian citizen gets married in the US, the officiant is going to file the records with their local jurisdiction. What's the process that guarantees Australia gets a copy of that filing?
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Honestly, I'm not sure. But I'm about 85% certain that it does somehow. If someone can demonstrate that I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
I don't think it does happen that way. From what I understand from Australian citizens here in Japan, when they get married in Japan, and have kids here, they don't get automatically registered in Australia. How would they even know about the marriage and the kids unless someone tells them? Who would that be? It's definitely not the Japanese authorities as they don't do it for anyone else.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 04:22 PM   #86
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,470
Please can we all take a step back. This thread is ostensibly about Ghislaine Maxwell.

Now we are all discussing marriage law as applied in various jurisdictions and Ghislaine is entirely forgotten.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 04:39 PM   #87
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 71,033
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Please can we all take a step back. This thread is ostensibly about Ghislaine Maxwell.

Now we are all discussing marriage law as applied in various jurisdictions and Ghislaine is entirely forgotten.
Agreed.
__________________
We will meet them on the beach, we will meet them on the phone hook-ups.
- Scott Morrison, probably
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 05:47 PM   #88
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Agreed.
Thanks.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 07:32 PM   #89
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,586
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A "stealth" helicopter, if they even exist, would have a reduced radar signature. That wouldn't keep people from seeing it. And since she's locked up in Brooklyn, there's no open area. If anybody could have escaped, it would have been El Chapo. And he didn't.
A quick Google Maps check shows a nice large parking lot right in the centre of MDC Brooklyn and adjacency to the Hudson River. I've watched enough Hollywood movies to know that escape would be possible.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th July 2020, 09:17 PM   #90
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Administrator
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 48,833
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If they're an Australian citizen, then the records would be here regardless of where the marriage actually took place. If they're not a citizen, then yeah you'd be right.
Well, since Maxwell is not Australian, my point stands. Even if her husband were Australian, it’s just one of a couple hundred places to start searching for marriage records, in the absence of further information.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2020, 07:39 PM   #91
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,029
I might be old fashioned but it seems the more obvious thing to do would be to search land titles of the New Hampshire property and if it is owned by a Limited Liability Company, determine the names of the directors, which is public information.

That may show if the LLC is a trustee company for a property trust and allow for discernment of Maxwell's assets for court directions.
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2020, 12:37 PM   #92
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,444
The property was bought by a company called Granite Reality, according to this website:

https://www.concordmonitor.com/Bradf...xwell-35143394

Our old friends Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman have filed paperwork to lobby on behalf of Granite Reality - you can see this here:

https://disclosurespreview.house.gov.../301185287.xml

However, as it's them I suspect they're just trying to inject themselves into a story for fun and/or profit. There's a Twitter thread about this here:

https://twitter.com/HKrassenstein/st...98284303810565

Granite Reality, which the prosecutor calls "a carefully anonymised LLC" in this Memoradum in Support of Detention was formed on 19th November 2019 and purchased the property in Bradford the following month. The manager of Granite is Boston lawyer, Jeffrey W. Roberts, who is also the registered agent for a second company, Hopley Yeaton, whose manager is named as “Scott Borgerson.” Both companies also share the same address in Boston - Roberts’ law firm.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 06:58 AM   #93
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The surprise news is that she is apparently married, but won’t name her husband.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...effrey-epstein

Where was Prince Andrew last November?
She's too old for him.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:10 AM   #94
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
A quick Google Maps check shows a nice large parking lot right in the centre of MDC Brooklyn and adjacency to the Hudson River. I've watched enough Hollywood movies to know that escape would be possible.
I saw that film, 'Con Air':

Quote:
A number of inmates are being transferred to a new supermax prison, including mass murderer William "Billy Bedlam" Bedford, serial rapist John "Johnny 23" Baca, Black Guerrilla Family member Nathan "Diamond Dog" Jones, and criminal mastermind "Cyrus the Virus" Grissom. After taking off, affable inmate Joe "Pinball" Parker incites a riot as a distraction, releasing Grissom and Diamond Dog who lead the takeover of the plane. The hijacking inmates plot to land at Carson Airport as scheduled, pick up and transfer other prisoners, and then fly to a non-extradition country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Con_Air

So, if Ghislaine can cause a few distractions and somehow get a message for her private helicopter and pilot to wince her up - and a few fellow felons awaiting trial - why, she could be on her way to Morocco [a no-extradition country] on Jeffery's old private jet. Audacious? Yes, but then so was Epstein's hanging stunt.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:58 AM   #95
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 28,215
I think the celebrity culture is interesting. People seem to expect all sorts of cleverness and audacity from high profile people who turn out, on closer inspection, to be just ordinary folks with rich parents and self-assured arrogance. Maybe Maxwell just isn't all that competent.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 08:03 AM   #96
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,495
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think the celebrity culture is interesting. People seem to expect all sorts of cleverness and audacity from high profile people who turn out, on closer inspection, to be just ordinary folks with rich parents and self-assured arrogance. Maybe Maxwell just isn't all that competent.
Maxwell's father was a suspected spook for the Israelis, so that adds a bit of intrigue your normal rich family might not have.

It's certainly fertile soil for conspiracy theories.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 08:31 AM   #97
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,314
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Maxwell's father was a suspected spook for the Israelis
I thought Captain Bob was also linked to MI6, the CIA and the KGB?
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 12:09 PM   #98
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I thought Captain Bob was also linked to MI6, the CIA and the KGB?
Despite being one of the biggest crooks of all time in British history, six high up officials of Mossad attended his funeral which was presided over by a top Rabbi.

As for Epstein, the source of his money was Maxwell, with espionage written all over it, with Wexner as a front.

Epstein was a mediocre teacher, a mediocre financier who wasn't even qualified or licensed.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 12:26 PM   #99
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,314
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Despite being one of the biggest crooks of all time in British history, six high up officials of Mossad attended his funeral which was presided over by a top Rabbi.

As for Epstein, the source of his money was Maxwell, with espionage written all over it, with Wexner as a front.

Epstein was a mediocre teacher, a mediocre financier who wasn't even qualified or licensed.
Now that I know he wasn't qualified or licensed my opinion of the man has taken quite a hit.

All of a sudden I'm imagining him as the financier equivalent of My Cousin Vinny and Ghislaine is Marissa Tomei. Hopefully the whole case rests on Ghislaine's knowledge of the rear axle of the '64 Skylark.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 07:56 PM   #100
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,586
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I saw that film, 'Con Air':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Con_Air

So, if Ghislaine can cause a few distractions and somehow get a message for her private helicopter and pilot to wince her up - and a few fellow felons awaiting trial - why, she could be on her way to Morocco [a no-extradition country] on Jeffery's old private jet. Audacious? Yes, but then so was Epstein's hanging stunt.
I think that would work. You just have to kidnap someone important as a hostage.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th July 2020, 10:51 PM   #101
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I think that would work. You just have to kidnap someone important as a hostage.
<fx peeks over the parapet> Can I nominate Attorney General Wm Barr?

Can't send a bigger message than that.

In the meantime in the real world, does anyone think nothing much will happen between now and the impending trial this time next year? An escape attempt is certainly feasible. She has the contacts and the money.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2020, 11:22 PM   #102
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Donald Trump 'wishes Ghislaine Maxwell well'.

Quote:
When asked by a reporter whether he thought Maxwell would turn in the names of powerful people, Trump responded saying he 'hadn't been following it too much' but that he 'wishes her well'.

'I just wish her well frankly,' he said.

'I've met her numerous times over the years especially since I lived in Palm Beach and I guess they lived in Palm Beach.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ein-madam.html

LOL. In England to wish someone well is to hope to never cross their paths again.

"I wish him well. I wish him a strange kind of happiness...death" ~ Derek and Clive
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2020, 02:06 AM   #103
JihadJane
not a camel
 
JihadJane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 77,553
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

LOL. In England to wish someone well is to hope to never cross their paths again.

"I wish him well. I wish him a strange kind of happiness...death" ~ Derek and Clive
Didn't know that! When I said that to my ex maybe I was being more honest than I thought!
__________________
empty void in space epic wasteland so dark you have no direction and die in sensory deprivation madness all your fault anyway jerk ~ Hlafordlaes
JihadJane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2020, 02:57 AM   #104
Lothian
should be banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside
Posts: 16,222
Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Didn't know that! When I said that to my ex maybe I was being more honest than I thought!
It generally doesn't mean that at all. In the UK we can take any compliment and by inflection and circumstances turn it into an ironic statement.

It really depends on who you are talking to and what you really think of them and also what the person hearing your phase understands about your feelings.

"You are so funny" can be meant literally and taken that way, meant literally but taken to be ironic. Said with irony but taken literally or taken in the way intended.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2020, 03:08 AM   #105
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,977
I agree. "I wish them well" can be warm and sincere, but as it's literally a farewell it can also imply "...but I'll have nothing further to do with them".
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2020, 12:39 PM   #106
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 12,989
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I agree. "I wish them well" can be warm and sincere, but as it's literally a farewell it can also imply "...but I'll have nothing further to do with them".

There's nothing subtle about Trump. And watching the video makes it pretty clear that he meant what it sounded like. He could easily have said something like "I'm sure justice will prevail," or even "Like anyone else, she's entitled to the presumption of innocence," but he didn't.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-wish-her-well
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2020, 08:06 AM   #107
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,444
Virgin Islands government subpoenas multiple banks for Jeffrey Epstein's financial records [ABC News]

At least ten financial institutions -- including Deutsche Bank, JPMorgan Chase and Citibank -- have been issued subpoenas in recent weeks from the office of USVI Attorney General Denise George, according to court filings reviewed by ABC News. The subpoenas seek account records, transaction details and communications concerning Epstein, his estate, and more than 30 corporations, trusts and nonprofit entities connected to him.

Earlier this month, the attorney general revealed in court filings that her office is also scrutinizing the alleged role of Ghislaine Maxwell in Epstein's operation. "The Government is and has been actively investigating Maxwell's participation in the criminal sex-trafficking and sexual abuse conduct of the Epstein Enterprise," wrote Ariel Smith, deputy attorney general of the USVI in a court filing on July 11.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2020, 08:38 AM   #108
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,860
Ken White (pope hat on twitter) said:

Quote:
Try to live your life in a way so that Donald Trump never wishes you well
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 04:07 AM   #109
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
From the POV of the devil's advocate (were I the counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell) I would advise that her bid to gag the victims from publicising their claims against her is the wrong strategy. Her best strategy is to let the sexual abuse of minors and trafficking thereof side be the main story and let the scandalous, titillating, salacious press focus on the SEX SEX SEX, whilst the big story of deep state corruption (top ranking politicians, attorneys, scientists, celebrities) and espionage/blackmail is buried beneath all the stories of her sordid activities on the massage tables.

Sex sells. Don't stop them, is what her advocate should be telling her.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 04:12 AM   #110
RedStapler
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
From the POV of the devil's advocate (were I the counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell) I would advise that her bid to gag the victims from publicising their claims against her is the wrong strategy. Her best strategy is to let the sexual abuse of minors and trafficking thereof side be the main story and let the scandalous, titillating, salacious press focus on the SEX SEX SEX, whilst the big story of deep state corruption (top ranking politicians, attorneys, scientists, celebrities) and espionage/blackmail is buried beneath all the stories of her sordid activities on the massage tables.

Sex sells. Don't stop them, is what her advocate should be telling her.
Please don't assume just because you are very very very easy to trick, everybody else also is
RedStapler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 04:17 AM   #111
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Please don't assume just because you are very very very easy to trick, everybody else also is
The Netflix film 'Filthy Rich' and Bradley Edward's [excellent] book, Relentless Pursuit focus solely on the sex. One of the victims was 22 years-old when she was procured for Epstein. Now that is an appalling tragedy for her and has ruined her life, but what about the elite cabals that funded Epstein and Maxwell in the first place?
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 04:58 AM   #112
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,977
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
From the POV of the devil's advocate (were I the counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell) I would advise that her bid to gag the victims from publicising their claims against her is the wrong strategy. Her best strategy is to let the sexual abuse of minors and trafficking thereof side be the main story and let the scandalous, titillating, salacious press focus on the SEX SEX SEX, whilst the big story of deep state corruption (top ranking politicians, attorneys, scientists, celebrities) and espionage/blackmail is buried beneath all the stories of her sordid activities on the massage tables.

Sex sells. Don't stop them, is what her advocate should be telling her.
Your advice to someone facing trial for particular offences is that they should not attempt to minimise damaging publicity for those offences, but rather do the opposite? And your reasoning is that, since you assume all important people to be a giant cabal, collectively guilty of innumerable even greater crimes, then by making things as bad for herself as possible at her trial this will distract everyone from discussing the imagined wrongdoings of VIPs and celebrities who, I notice, aren't actually charged with anything. And presumably this self-sacrifice will somehow gain their gratitude in unspecified (but presumably unfair, corrupt and objectionable) ways.

I watched The Equaliser 2 last night and I thought the plot of that was totally absurd, but this puts it in perspective.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 05:24 AM   #113
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 92,065
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
From the POV of the devil's advocate (were I the counsel for Ghislaine Maxwell) I would advise that her bid to gag the victims from publicising their claims against her is the wrong strategy. Her best strategy is to let the sexual abuse of minors and trafficking thereof side be the main story and let the scandalous, titillating, salacious press focus on the SEX SEX SEX, whilst the big story of deep state corruption (top ranking politicians, attorneys, scientists, celebrities) and espionage/blackmail is buried beneath all the stories of her sordid activities on the massage tables.

Sex sells. Don't stop them, is what her advocate should be telling her.
You're not a real lawyer, are you?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2020, 05:28 AM   #114
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,485
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're not a real lawyer, are you?
Real lawyers have something called an .......ectomy
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2020, 05:55 AM   #115
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,584
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're not a real lawyer, are you?
Dash! I missed my vocation...
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 06:20 AM   #116
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,444
The recently unsealed documents in the Maxwell case are available here:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...axwell/?page=7
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 07:55 AM   #117
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,495
Dershowitz having a normal one online insisting that it's actually cool and good he's name dropped as a child rapist in the Maxwell case.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 08:23 AM   #118
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
I think it is most likely that Trump “wishes her well” to signal that he is not her enemy, that he doesn’t wish to piss her off. No doubt there are a lot of important people who don’t wish to piss her off. Not that they all were involved in underage sex. Just that Epstein cultivated a large group of powerful people, wined and dined them, had them over to his private island, etc. and these folks would now very much prefer to be left out of any testimony Maxwell provides.

If I was in that position I would certainly avoid making public declarations of how despicable Maxwell is; why tempt her to retaliate?

Last edited by Giordano; 31st July 2020 at 08:26 AM.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 08:26 AM   #119
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 92,065
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I think it is most likely that Trump “wishes her well” to signal that he is not her enemy, that he doesn’t wish to piss her off.
That was a conclusion that made the rounds on Twitter.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2020, 09:17 AM   #120
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 97,812
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I think it is most likely that Trump “wishes her well” to signal that he is not her enemy, that he doesn’t wish to piss her off. No doubt there are a lot of important people who don’t wish to piss her off. Not that they all were involved in underage sex. Just that Epstein cultivated a large group of powerful people, wined and dined them, had them over to his private island, etc. and these folks would now very much prefer to be left out of any testimony Maxwell provides.

If I was in that position I would certainly avoid making public declarations of how despicable Maxwell is; why tempt her to retaliate?
That is applying too much credit to his ability to rationally think about something. She is part of "his" social circle, therefore she is a good person regardless of anything else.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:05 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.