The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 3

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,244,639
Deaths:
566,611

New Cases:
76,786
New Deaths:
952

[dann]

How to deal with politicians who are anti-maskers: Scene from the Italian parliament

[Captain_Swoop]

Lauren Boebert
@laurenboebert

In today’s edition of facts that trigger the Left...

Texas’s COVID-19 numbers have gotten BETTER since they lifted the mandates.

WHO reports on COVID should come with 'paid for by' disclaimers like campaign commercials.

Should be easy for them considering its mostly CCP propaganda and falsified documents.

We need to hold the WHO and CCP accountable for their blatant lies and disinformation.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lauren Boebert
@laurenboebert

In today’s edition of facts that trigger the Left...

Texas’s COVID-19 numbers have gotten BETTER since they lifted the mandates.
.

It’s been barely two weeks, and that is the incubation period. We probably don’t have the real un-lockdown figures yet.

But those words are probably too big for Greene to understand.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lauren Boebert
@laurenboebert
In today’s edition of facts that trigger the Left...
Texas’s COVID-19 numbers have gotten BETTER since they lifted the mandates...

Does it matter to Boebert -- a member of Congress from Colorado not Texas -- that her statement is untrue? Probably not because she's another young Republican trying to 'build her brand' and the people that message is aimed at, her supporters, probably won't care whether it's true or not, so long as it's what they want to hear.

Below is a quote from the current Dallas Magazine, about how the state has avoided the feared huge uptick in cases since the mask mandate was ended. The fact that many businesses and retailers continue to mandate mask wearing on their property is one reason, the fact many Texans continue to wear masks -- mandate or no mandate -- is another and the rising number of Texans who've been vaccinated is a third reason. A fourth reason is, large indoor gatherings as were taking place in December-January have decreased, and people are beginning to spend more time outdoors. But, Dallas County Medical Director Dr. Philip Huang tells the magazine, there has been a slight uptick in new cases:

Quote:

Despite the lower numbers, both Dallas County and the nation experienced an uptick in cases since mid-March, when Spring Break began and Texas ended its mask mandate. New cases nationwide rose from around 50,000 in the middle of March to above 70,000 at the end of the month. “We’re going to have a meeting with some of the hospitals and modelers tomorrow [April 1],” Huang says. “We did see a slight increase last week, and we are hoping that doesn’t continue.” Dallas Magazine link

The mandate was ended March 10th. Define 'better.'

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by dann

How to deal with politicians who are anti-maskers: Scene from the Italian parliament

Reminds me of the time the Sergeant at Arms hauled Senator Bob Packwood feet first into the Senate chamber. In 1988, Republicans were trying to filibuster a bill on campaign finance reform. Senator Byrd was trying to end and made them stay up all night speaking on the floor. After the filibuster finally broke and the bill was about to come to a vote, the Republicans fled the chamber and hid so that there wouldn't be a quorum. Packwood hid in an office and bolted the door.

Byrd sent the Sergeant at Arms to bring the Senators back in. He wasn't having any luck finding any Senators until a cleaning lady gave away Packwood's location. The Sergeant used a pass key to unlock the bolt. Packwood put his should to the door to stop him from coming in. The Sergeant and his men prevailed and got into the room.

Packwood refused to enter the chamber on his own free will, so the Sergeant and his men picked him up and carried him feet first into the chamber.

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lauren Boebert
@laurenboebert

In today’s edition of facts that trigger the Left...

Texas’s COVID-19 numbers have gotten BETTER since they lifted the mandates.

WHO reports on COVID should come with 'paid for by' disclaimers like campaign commercials.

Should be easy for them considering its mostly CCP propaganda and falsified documents.

We need to hold the WHO and CCP accountable for their blatant lies and disinformation.

From someone who says right up-front that she wants to "trigger the left," it's an amazingly flagrant (and fragrant) piece of projection to accuse the WHO of needing disclaimers as "campaign commercials" for their reports. I mean, it should be easy for her to back up her claim that they have falsified documents. She wouldn't say that if she couldn't show it, right? Otherwise, saying that they are is just propaganda, blatant lies, and disinformation.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,314,625
Deaths:
567,610

New Cases:
69,986
New Deaths:
1001

[newyorkguy]

Lauren Boebert notwithstanding, new cases have declined precipitously from the holiday surge period, but only to about where we were in the surge last Summer. At the time that seemed pretty bad.

Quote:

Texas’s COVID-19 numbers have gotten BETTER since they lifted the mandates.

Is she really suggesting wearing a mask increases the risk of becoming infected?

The World Health Organization and the Chinese Communist Party are not the only ones who should be held "accountable for their blatant lies and disinformation."

[newyorkguy]

I'm posting an edited version of the Worldometer chart image from above. Note how new cases passed the 100,000 per-day mark on November 4th? (The very day trump predicted, "You won't hear about Covid-19 anymore.") And new cases stayed above 100,000 per day well into February. Yet even here some people have disputed the notion there was a 'holiday surge.' And I don't mean trumpers, but people who otherwise seem pretty sensible.


Well, take another look because numbers don't lie. I recall Dr. Fauci warning in late summer of last year that we'd be in a "world of hurt" come January. The chart below clearly illustrates it; there was a HUGE holiday surge. HUGE.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,383,126
Deaths:
568,513

New Cases:
66,154
New Deaths:
807

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I'm posting an edited version of the Worldometer chart image from above. Note how new cases passed the 100,000 per-day mark on November 4th? (The very day trump predicted, "You won't hear about Covid-19 anymore.") And new cases stayed above 100,000 per day well into February. Yet even here some people have disputed the notion there was a 'holiday surge.' And I don't mean trumpers, but people who otherwise seem pretty sensible.


Well, take another look because numbers don't lie. I recall Dr. Fauci warning in late summer of last year that we'd be in a "world of hurt" come January. The chart below clearly illustrates it; there was a HUGE holiday surge. HUGE.

It was a national surge during the holidays, but not because of the holidays. The surge already started in the the upper Midwest peaking around the first week of November. Well before the holidays. Look at South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Iowa. They were already well on their way down by Christmas.

You can track it by peaks across the country:

South Dakota Nov 14
Minnesota Nov 20
Wisconsin Nov 19
Illinois Nov 17
Indiana Dec 9
Ohio Dec 13
Pennsylvania Dec 17
New York Jan 11

You can track it the same way to the south or the east. It happened to hit the more heavy populated coasts during the holidays, which is what dominates the national numbers. But the wave was already rolling in before the holidays started.

[newyorkguy]

I don't understand how anyone can look at the chart above and conclude there was no holiday surge. Below is a quote from John Hopkins, written by Dr. Lisa Maragakis.

Quote:

When the coronavirus pandemic began early in 2020, experts wondered if there would be waves of cases, a pattern seen in other virus pandemics. The overall pattern so far has been one of increasing cases of COVID-19, with a surge in the summer and a larger one in the fall. Some locations that saw a high number of coronavirus infections early on, followed by a decline, are having a “second wave” of increased cases. Link

There was a surge in the fall driven by declining temperatures and people spending more time indoors where the virus spread more easily. Then the holiday surge rolled in (as the chart above makes abundantly clear). Below is a quote from Healthline dot org.

Quote:

“Thanksgiving just threw gas on the fire and really got us going into that exponential growth curve,” said Will Humble, MPH, executive director of the Arizona Public Health Association. “Combined with the Christmas parties and the New Year’s parties and all of the social mixing that happened over that 10-day period, it’s had an enormous impact,” Humble told Healthline. “For the past week, we’ve been the top, the worst in the world.” Healthline dot org link

Public health officials do not agree the surge during the holidays was not related to the holidays. That's what I'm going by, what public health officials have written. Not non-sourced, non-referenced messages by anonymous posters on Internet message boards.

That's the Internet surge.

[slyjoe]

Let's see, what happened in early November. I think the announcement that there were vaccine test results available (Nov. 9) may have given some people a false sense of security.

[newyorkguy]

What happened in early November was tied in, again according to officials and news reports, to the Halloween surge. Which has already been discussed here. John Hopkins or CDC had a chart showing the Halloween surge, the Thanksgiving surge and the Christmas/New Year's surge. From an ABC News piece appearing November 11th.

Quote:

As leftover candy stashes run low in American households across the country, several state officials and school authorities have begun citing coronavirus outbreaks related to Halloween, less than two weeks after the fall holiday. ABC News link

From an Associated Press also on November 11th.

Quote:

The U.S. hit a record number of coronavirus hospitalizations Tuesday [November 10th] and surpassed 1 million new confirmed cases in just the first 10 days of November amid a nationwide surge of infections that shows no signs of slowing. The new wave appears bigger and more widespread than the surges that happened in the spring and summer — and threatens to be worse. AP link

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

What happened in early November was tied in, again according to officials and news reports, to the Halloween surge. Which has already been discussed here. John Hopkins or CDC had a chart showing the Halloween surge, the Thanksgiving surge and the Christmas/New Year's surge. From an ABC News piece appearing November 11th.


From an Associated Press also on November 11th.

Based on the dates cited, I tend to agree. Thanks.

[Captain_Swoop]

Evan Power Florida gop Chairman of Chairs TWEETED

@EvanPower
There is was no vaccine for the Black Plague or Spanish flu. The disease ran its course and people went back to normal. The vaccine speeds the process, but why shouldn’t we just go back to normal?

[newyorkguy]

The Black Plague devastated Asia and Europe for five years in the 1300s and killed at least 20 million people. From World Encyclopedia:

Quote:

The death toll was so high that it had significant consequences on European medieval society as a whole, with a shortage of farmers resulting in demands for an end to serfdom, a general questioning of authority and rebellions, and the entire abandonment of many towns and villages. It would take 200 years for the population of Europe to recover to the level seen prior to the Black Death. Link

Spanish Flu, from the History Channel:

Quote:

The Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, the deadliest in history, infected an estimated 500 million people worldwide—about one-third of the planet’s population—and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims, including some 675,000 Americans. The 1918 flu was first observed in Europe, the United States and parts of Asia before swiftly spreading around the world. At the time, there were no effective drugs or vaccines to treat this killer flu strain. Citizens were ordered to wear masks, schools, theaters and businesses were shuttered and bodies piled up in makeshift morgues before the virus ended its deadly global march. Link

People just went back to 'normal?'

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

The Black Plague devastated Asia and Europe for five years in the 1300s and killed at least 20 million people. From World Encyclopedia:

Spanish Flu, from the History Channel:

People just went back to 'normal?'

They took the history course at/through Trump U.

[kookbreaker]

He’s getting hammered in replies but facts do not matter to the GQP rat-lickers.

[newyorkguy]

From another thread but apropos here regarding Evan Power the Florida GOP Chairman. From the CBS affiliate in Miami:

Quote:

“They’re here for notoriety and to perform to their base, and anything else that may come is secondary,” said Doug Heye, a Trump critic and former top GOP congressional aide. “And if you boo him that’s great too, as long as you’re watching.” CBS link

It's not that facts don't matter to someone like Power, they've become largely irrelevant!

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,420,331
Deaths:
568,777

New Cases:
36,983
New Deaths:
270

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Lauren Boebert notwithstanding, new cases have declined precipitously from the holiday surge period, but only to about where we were in the surge last Summer. At the time that seemed pretty bad.



Is she really suggesting wearing a mask increases the risk of becoming infected?

The World Health Organization and the Chinese Communist Party are not the only ones who should be held "accountable for their blatant lies and disinformation."

I don't think this is something most people with a political dog in the fight will want to discuss. The holiday surge makes Trump look very bad for allowing an obviously dangerous thing to happen, and the post surge numbers make Biden look pretty bad because, for all the ways his covid response is different and better than Trump's, our "baseline" level of daily cases is just as bad as when we were all labelling Trump a mass murderer during the summer.

Vaccination is around the corner, but nothing meaningful is being done in the meantime to suppress new covid cases. If anything, the prospect of mass vaccination is leading many states and people to jump to conclusions and treat covid as a thing of the past. My state of Mass has indoor dining again to 100% capacity.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Resume

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,420,331
Deaths:
568,777

New Cases:
36,983
New Deaths:
270

That's for Easter Sunday, of course. No reports from many states.

Seven day average deaths have fallen into the 800's, but new cases have risen from the mid 50,000 range back into the low 60,000's over the past three weeks or so.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

That's for Easter Sunday, of course. No reports from many states.

Yes of course. As has been noted previously in this thread, reporting from weekends -- especially holiday weekends-- lags a day or two into the next week.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,490,563
Deaths:
569,197

New Cases:
50,329
New Deaths:
415

[Solitaire]

Quote:

The Skeptics Guide Podcast, Episode 821 Transcript, 1 hr 10 min.

Cara Santa Maria: Well... And to be fair, you are right. China was a nucleation point.

Cara Santa Maria: But let's not forget that if the United States, which is a massive global hub, had gotten our act together, and hadn't pretended like this was not a threat to us, and hadn't pretended, when we had evidence that this virus was on our shores, that it wasn't actually on our shores, and that kind of overly calm rhetoric of don't worry Americans this is somebody's else's problem, hadn't been the case, we would not have carried such a viral load that we know ran back around the world multiple times over.

Steven Novella: We failed. We totally failed.

Evan Burnstein: No question about that.

Cara Santa Maria: We failed massively. We were a nucleation point for sure.

Steven Novella: Totally.

Cara Santa Maria: We could've bottleneck this thing.

Steven Novella: And this is not about point fingers or assigning blame. This is about how can we do better next time.

Cara Santa Maria: But we need to know we're in this. [Crosstalk]

Steven Novella: Totally.

But in medicine we have something called, Morbidity and Mortality report, M & M. And where we go over all the horrible things that happened, like on our service or whatever. And the rule of the reports is there is no blame, no one. There's no shame. There's no blame. It' because we want, we need people to be completely honest about what happened. So that we can talk one hundred percent about how to keep this from happening in the future.

That's it.

So it's like a safe space to talk about what went wrong so that we can fix it. And that's the same thing we need here. This is not about blame, or finger pointing, or about politicking. This is about... Damn we cannot let this happen again. The numbers by the way one hundred twenty nine million cases, two point eight million deaths worldwide. That's where we are. [Crosstalk]

Evan Burnstein: And ten year from now the next one could go ten times those numbers.

Steven Novella: There are viruses out there that if the same thing happened it could be ten times as bad, absolutely. It could be a hundred times as bad.

Evan Bernstein: Incomprehensible. It really is.

Hm. No politicking, no finger pointing, no blame, eh?

Easy one.

Quarantine the United States after every viral outbreak in the world,
so no one can go in or out of the country until after it's under control.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Solitaire

Hm. No politicking, no finger pointing, no blame, eh?

Easy one.

Quarantine the United States after every viral outbreak in the world,
so no one can go in or out of the country until after it's under control.

The problem with that attitude is trying to address the root causes without addressing the elephant in the room and it's is flawed.

Trump ****** up the CDC so it couldn't do its proper job. There's a ton of documentation of this.

Fauci gave bad advice about masks because there was a serious shortage PPE in health care. Much of that was the Trump government eliminating the whole planning effort for a pandemic.

How can you address those very major issues while trying to stay politically neutral?

Then we have the WHO investigative team severely handicapped by China's lack of cooperation and a serious conflict of interest among the investigative team members.

So, nice try Novella, et al, but you get an F.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I don't understand how anyone can look at the chart above and conclude there was no holiday surge. Below is a quote from John Hopkins, written by Dr. Lisa Maragakis.


There was a surge in the fall driven by declining temperatures and people spending more time indoors where the virus spread more easily. Then the holiday surge rolled in (as the chart above makes abundantly clear). Below is a quote from Healthline dot org.


Public health officials do not agree the surge during the holidays was not related to the holidays. That's what I'm going by, what public health officials have written. Not non-sourced, non-referenced messages by anonymous posters on Internet message boards.

That's the Internet surge.

Let me try this. Correlation does not imply causation. There was a surge during the holidays. The question is whether the surge was caused by the holidays or just coincidentally occurred during the holidays.

To test the hypothesis that the surge was caused by holidays, if we look at the case rates in individual states we would expect to find that the surges occurred at the same times in every state, with surges happening a week or two after each holiday. After Halloween, each state's case numbers go up. The same after Thanksgiving. The same after Christmas. We should see basically the same thing in every state.

That isn't what we see. The national totals correlate to holidays, but not when we look at regional or state data. Fauci was right that there was a surge on a surge, but the big surge was already underway and the holiday "surge" was only small bumps among that larger surge. If we look at data for AZ we see surges that line up right with Thanksgiving and Christmas. But if we look at a data from a state like ND we don't see that at all. The surge hit different states at different times where it sometimes lined up with holidays and sometimes not.

Below is a chart that shows a few states. This is using case data from The COVID Tracking Project and population data from World-O-Meter. The chart shows a 7-day rolling average of cases per 100,000 population. I uses cases by population because that allows for comparisons across states with different population density. I use a 7-day rolling average because some states only report every few days or have lower reports on weekends and the average helps smooth things out. The three vertical lines represent Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas (I approximated the positions).

For states like SD, MN, and NM the case rate was already well on the way up even before Halloween. Some states like NY and FL didn't really see any Halloween affect. Some states peaked at early November, mid-November, mid-December, or early January.

The hypothesis fails because we don't see a surge correlated to holidays across all states. In some states it correlates to one holiday but not another, and in some states it doesn't really correlate to any holiday at all.

If we look at more states, the pattern is that the large wave moves across the country from around ND spreading outward over time. That meant that it started in low population states and move to larger population states (although the case rate decreased).

Note that NM is a bit of an anomaly here; in neighboring AZ it hit much later, with large post-Thanksgiving and post-Christmas surges. But in general, the large wave spread out from an epicenter of the upper Midwest with the holidays only making bumps along the way.

Even in this limited graph, we can see the affects of the holidays. SD, IN, and OH have bumps after Thanksgiving. Almost every state has a significant bump after Christmas. In this chart we can clearly see a Christmas bump. The big fall/winter surge was not caused by holidays, but holidays did cause shorter term increases, and it is probably reasonable to speculate that the holidays increased the height and duration of the larger wave to some extent.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

...The question is whether the surge was caused by the holidays or just coincidentally occurred during the holidays...

I don't think most public health officials would agree that it was coincidence that a surge happened during the holiday season. They seemed to have pretty solid reasons for predicting there would be a holiday surge and the numbers seem to mostly support that there was one. I don't agree that New York and Florida didn't see any Halloween affect. [See New York Times charts below.]

Devilsdvocate, let me ask, what is your theory? I get the impression you're arguing that the surge began in the upper Midwest and spread nationally. Since this is obviously a complicated issue, what are your qualifications to have a theory? Are there reputable public health people who share your theory?

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

That's for Easter Sunday, of course. No reports from many states.

I saw a story on the news about an annual Easter event in Texas in which thousands of plastic Easter eggs are dropped from a helicopter into a field for children to collect. Huge crowds and not a single mask in sight.

[Blue Mountain]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

I saw a story on the news about an annual Easter event in Texas in which thousands of plastic Easter eggs are dropped from a helicopter into a field for children to collect. Huge crowds and not a single mask in sight.

By contrast, my observation here in Manitoba shows practically 100% mask usage when people are out in public.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
31,560,438
Deaths:
570,260

New Cases:
62,283
New Deaths:
906

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I don't think most public health officials would agree that it was coincidence that a surge happened during the holiday season. They seemed to have pretty solid reasons for predicting there would be a holiday surge and the numbers seem to mostly support that there was one. I don't agree that New York and Florida didn't see any Halloween affect. [See New York Times charts below.]

Devilsdvocate, let me ask, what is your theory? I get the impression you're arguing that the surge began in the upper Midwest and spread nationally. Since this is obviously a complicated issue, what are your qualifications to have a theory? Are there reputable public health people who share your theory?

My theory is that nobody knows why this surge happened. Public health officials warned about holiday surges for good reason. There are very discernable increases following Thanksgiving and Christmas. In some states that correlates to the big fall/winter wave. In other states it does not.

The hypothesis of the big fall/winter wave being caused by holidays fails. The wave didn't happen in all states at the same time, which is what would be expected if it was caused by certain date-specific events. The increase from Christmas did not expand into a larger increase, which would be expected from the most significant event, especially compared to the more minor event of Halloween. The wave started in some states even before Halloween.

What caused that big fall/winter wave? I don't know. I don't think anybody knows. I think some experts try to find correlations and explanations to provide answers to for things we don't actually know.

Below is a chart that shows a 7-day rolling average of cases by population for all 50 states. It is messy, but still illustrative. The wave started well before Halloween. Many states were already on a path of increase.

The wave started in ND and SD. Some neighboring states a bit behind. What caused that? Was it Sturgis? Maybe. Sturgis was 8/7 to 8/16. We do see a bump in SD and neighboring states a couple weeks after that. But that is mostly a bump. It is similar to the bumps we see for Thanksgiving and Christmas, but smaller. Look to the left side of the chart at LA (grey line) around the start of April. That's Mardi Gras.

We can rather clearly identify bumps to specific places at specific times that would be super-spreader events and see the bumps that match those events. It is rather clear. Those events create bumps, not waves.

But after Sturgis SD wen up and down, but ND kept going up...for some reason. And after SD came down it also started going up, in a big way.

Was the whole big surge caused by Sturgis? I would be reluctant to believe that.

This same big wave happened across the world. Sweden, Iran, Australia, Japan. In some countries it bit earlier and in some later. But many countries had this pattern of a wave and then a slightly bigger wave and the a huge wave in the fall/winter.

The holidays caused some increases, but they did not cause the surge. I don't think anybody knows what caused the surge.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

The holidays caused some increases, but they did not cause the surge. I don't think anybody knows what caused the surge.

In the UK at least there is a strong link between people mixing indoors (for whatever reason) and a surge in Covid numbers.

When "lockdown" restrictions were relaxed over Summer 2020, the numbers stayed low until people were allowed to go to schools, pubs, gyms, restaurants indoors - and did so. Through August and early-September the numbers were still comparatively low because they were (a) growing and (b) people were mixing outdoors.

As the weather turned, people came back indoors and the number of cases soared. Local "lockdowns" or "firebreaks" did check the rise and bring the numbers down a bit but they were too short to have a lasting effect. We've now been on "lockdown" for nearly 4 months and restrictions are being lifted slowly. We cannot socialise indoors and summer weather may keep things in check so long as people socialise outdoors. A return to indoor mixing in houses, churches, pubs and restaurants will see numbers rise again.

Despite a very successful vaccination programme, the UK government is already preparing us for 30,000+ Covid deaths over the winter (the equivalent of 200,000+ in the US). If the US has a significantly lower take-up of the vaccine and people mix indoors over summer to benefit from air-conditioning then I can see the US being in even worse shape than the UK.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Anti-vax cranks assault a LA city code enforcement employee without interference from the police. The cops later arrested a counter-protestor for assault when he touched someone's flag scarf.

Quote:

Chuds in front of Tinhorn Flats assault Burbank City workers. No action was taken on behalf of the city workers. One man's mask was ripped off. Video included, the assault is at 2:26 min https://youtube.com/watch?v=KxcKBJrnDoE

https://twitter.com/Exile_in_LA/stat...02907975806978

LA has been the home of several anti-vax demonstrations of increasing belligerence. A similar group of cranks shut down a mass vaccination clinic being held in Dodger Stadium

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...rity-questions

More silk glove treatment for right wing freaks from the cops. Curious

Quote:

Both fire and police officials have said the group was nonviolent and that the decision to close the entrance to the facility was a precaution. The protest left several city leaders infuriated, with some questioning why police weren’t more aggressive toward demonstrators, contending the LAPD has been more proactive in quashing anti-police or Black Lives Matter protests.

[newyorkguy]

I don't agree that public health experts came up with 'holiday surge' as a way to explain events for which they didn't know the cause. It should be remembered, the experts issued warnings before the surges started. Fauci as far back as August if not earlier. Below are quotes from an American Medical Association letter posted November 19th, a week before Thanksgiving.

Quote:

An open letter to the American people:

With Thanksgiving and the holiday season fast approaching and a deadly COVID-19 pandemic surging, we – the physicians, nurses, hospital and health system leaders and public health professionals on the front lines of this pandemic – strongly urge everyone throughout our country to celebrate responsibly, in a scaled-back fashion that limits the virus’s spread, to help reduce the risk of infecting friends, family and others you love. Throughout the pandemic, COVID-19 spread has followed a similar pattern around holidays and mass gatherings. Positive cases spiked after Memorial Day, after the Fourth of July, after Labor Day, and now – two weeks after Halloween. AMA link

I read a long article about the effects of the Sturgis SD rally in August in the Washington Post. The article was published last October. The online version is paywalled and I read it via a New York Public Library webpage that requires a login so I don't have a link. It appeared on page A22 of the October 18, 2020 edition of the Post and below are quotes.

Quote:

Within weeks of the gathering, the Dakotas, along with Wyoming, Minnesota and Montana, were leading the nation in new coronavirus infections per capita. The surge was especially pronounced in North and South Dakota, where cases and hospitalization rates continued their juggernaut rise into October. Experts say they will never be able to determine how many of those cases originated at the 10-day rally, given the failure of state and local health officials to identify and monitor attendees returning home, or to trace chains of transmission after people got sick. Some, however, believe the nearly 500,000-person gathering played a role in the outbreak now consuming the Upper Midwest.

In many ways, Sturgis is an object lesson in the patchwork U.S. response to a virus that has proved remarkably adept at exploiting such gaps to become resurgent. While some states and localities banned even relatively small groups of people, others, like South Dakota, imposed no restrictions - in this case allowing the largest gathering of people in the United States and perhaps anywhere in the world amid the pandemic and creating huge vulnerabilities as tens of thousands of attendees traveled back home to every state in the nation.

I think it also needs to be remembered, health officials have access to much much more information than the average news reader. There are medical news sites and message boards available but the discussions are very technical and not understandable to a non-medical person. One point I did pick up was that, even within the same variant of Covid-19, testing reveals certain 'markers' that help medical people trace infection chains.

A hypothetical example would be, there is an outbreak in say Nebraska. A few weeks later numbers start rising in Missouri and Indiana. Testers find the same markers in Missouri as they found in Nebraska. But the Indiana cases have markers that are slightly different and more closely correlate to cases in the Chicago area.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

.....
I read a long article about the effects of the Sturgis SD rally in August in the Washington Post. The article was published last October. The online version is paywalled and I read it via a New York Public Library webpage that requires a login so I don't have a link. It appeared on page A22 of the October 18, 2020 edition of the Post and below are quotes.

Here's the same story picked up elsewhere.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ho...st/ar-BB1a7VkP

[The Atheist]

Haha! You knew this was coming:

Universities - we're going to insist on vaccinations.
States - No you're not.

https://www.axios.com/universities-c...5e23f0b43.html

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Haha! You knew this was coming:

Universities - we're going to insist on vaccinations.
States - No you're not.

https://www.axios.com/universities-c...5e23f0b43.html

I can't find any states where a ban on university vaccine mandates has been passed into law. Mostly they are in the legislative process stage.


Still, this remnant of the Trump fiasco really sucks. These creeps endanger other people.