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Old 8th February 2021, 07:04 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
The eat out to help out scheme ended 31st August. The infection rates didn't start to rise significantly until well into September
Seems consistent with cause/effect to me.

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Of course you might say that anything short of shutting all pubs, clubs, restaurants, and every other place where people meet, completely and for the foreseeable future is a reason for an increase in cases - and I'd agree in principle, but was that a viable proposition in the summer when the infection rates were low?
I don't think it will come to be seen as the best way of spending £850 million. Of course you might say that this is a small part of £400 billion and that any amount however spent that alleviates income losses anywhere for as long as covid 19 is having a contractionary economic impact is good for restarting the economy and I'd agree in principle but it becomes a less viable proposition the larger the government deficit gets.
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Old 8th February 2021, 07:16 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Someone who does see it, and has the minimum necessary nous to steer the country through the less severe restrictions that will become necessary as we progress towards herd immunity, could look really good by managing to take over at the right moment.
The best moment was probably sometime in December, as of now Johnson seems to be accruing a good bit of the gain from vaccination speed.
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:22 AM   #163
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The Sun says there is 'outrage' that 'vile' Gary Glitter has been given a covid jab in Jail.

It apparently also raises the question of why criminals are being given the jabs ahead of law abiding people not in jail.
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:35 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It apparently also raises the question of why criminals are being given the jabs ahead of law abiding people not in jail.
Probably because the country is not (supposed to be) institutionally indifferent to criminals getting ill or dying more easily than notcriminals.
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:42 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
Probably because the country is not (supposed to be) institutionally indifferent to criminals getting ill or dying more easily than notcriminals.
Remember this is The Sun!
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:45 AM   #166
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Maybe you should write in and reassure the readers that actually it was a covid jab, not a covid vaccine jab.
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Old 8th February 2021, 08:56 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The Sun says there is 'outrage' that 'vile' Gary Glitter has been given a covid jab in Jail.

It apparently also raises the question of why criminals are being given the jabs ahead of law abiding people not in jail.
They’ve been doing a real good job of keeping the chaos from covid within the prison service out of the news. Things like Number 1 governors asking prison staff to get their GPs to put something other than covid on sick notes, sorry “fit note”. Really important stuff for the governors to be concentrating on.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:27 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
You complain that a skeptics forum isn't denouncing Boris Johnson for everything including his state of dress to his way of speaking....?

Well, a skeptic's forum should proceed on the basis of fact, not on the basis of emotional rants fuelled by personal and political predjudice. Whilst I accept that such personal and political predjudice is regrettably common in a number of the subforums, I suggest adding to it is counterproductive.
I agree politics should be about the policies and political actions and not about the person or celebrities. However, Johnson has styled himself into a celebrity figure, probably with a nod to Trump. However, as he appears to have deliberately delayed taking any action to prevent the spread of Covvid19, which anyone with a passing knowledge of how disease spread would have been aware of, Johnson chose to ignore several COBRA meetings, whilst other countries took urgent action, he disregarded what the leader of WHO had to say (just as Trump cancelled the US subscription). This was not buffoonery.

So yeah, Johnson get your bloody feet off your poxy desk, comb your hair and get your shabby backside out of the door.

And yet people say, oh leave him alone he's still suffering from Covid.

He has been gaslighting the entire nation and for once, it makes me cross.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:28 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
And then when queried on it, since many, if not all, here have been very critical, talks about something completely different, namely what the BBC are saying about Johnson.
It's not mutually exclusive.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:32 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
Also, "centrist"?
I meant 'centralist'. Looking back, I realise centrist refers to political belief, thus the ambiguity. Centralist as in 'Central Committee' so beloved of communist regimes or maybe more fascist, in which one man is the sole boss, surrounded by nodding yes-men.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:33 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
. . . is one of the reasons why the infection case load is only now dropping to levels that are still very far north of anything that was even in the cabinet's worst nightmares seven months ago.
To be fair he is the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It is Sunak's job to worry about the country's economic situation beyond the short-term.

It's not in his paygrade to know anything about virology.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:36 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
The eat out to help out scheme ended 31st August. The infection rates didn't start to rise significantly until well into September, so a peripheral reason if at all.

Of course you might say that anything short of shutting all pubs, clubs, restaurants, and every other place where people meet, completely and for the foreseeable future is a reason for an increase in cases - and I'd agree in principle, but was that a viable proposition in the summer when the infection rates were low?
Oh come off it. It was well-known a second wave was a distinct possibility, based on the history of previous, similar diseases, and given Covid19 thrives in cooler temperatures. In addition, there was much talk of how would the NHS cope if there was also a flu epidemic this year. It was no surprise to anybody.

Johnson will have been told this by Whitty and co.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:40 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They’ve been doing a real good job of keeping the chaos from covid within the prison service out of the news. Things like Number 1 governors asking prison staff to get their GPs to put something other than covid on sick notes, sorry “fit note”. Really important stuff for the governors to be concentrating on.
I read strong rumours on Twitter that the so-called 'Kent-strain' originated in some prison in Kent which spread quickly through the prison population.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:45 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
To be fair he is the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It is Sunak's job to worry about the country's economic situation beyond the short-term.

It's not in his paygrade to know anything about virology.
"Rest assured that my response to this pandemic will always be guided by the money"

Yeah that sounds just great, free pass!
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:50 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
"Rest assured that my response to this pandemic will always be guided by the money"

Yeah that sounds just great, free pass!
Well he doesn't have his own aides. His aides were given to him by Dominic Cummings. Sunak's wings have been clipped.


He went silent for a long time and there were rumours he and 'Boris' had fallen out.

Imagine you are an expert on banking and economics and you have to present your ideas to a lazy ignorant buffoon for approval whose only area of expertise is some ancient classics poem in Latin and writing fake news for the SPECTATOR.
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Old 8th February 2021, 09:53 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Well he doesn't have his own aides. His aides were given to him by Dominic Cummings.
He himself was given to the cabinet by Cummings. It wasn't because of any wings he had.
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:14 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I meant 'centralist'. Looking back, I realise centrist refers to political belief, thus the ambiguity. Centralist as in 'Central Committee' so beloved of communist regimes or maybe more fascist, in which one man is the sole boss, surrounded by nodding yes-men.
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:18 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's not mutually exclusive.
What anyone on the BBC said is irrelevant to that particular point, unless they happen to be members here.
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:19 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post

And yet people say, oh leave him alone he's still suffering from Covid.
Who has said this? I've seen suggestions that he might have long Covid, but none that this should entitle him to sympathy.
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:38 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
And yet I'd prefer him to some sartorially elegant goody twoshoes with a quick and clever way with words. Those are the type I always feel are in position because they simply show well.
Whereas Johnson shows badly and performs worse...
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Old 8th February 2021, 12:43 PM   #181
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It takes a little while for infection numbers to build to a level where they're visible in the statistics. The timing of the eat out to help out scheme is exactly right to have caused cases to be seen escalating in September. And this has been officially acknowledged. Why didn't they just give the money to the industry so they could stay closed? It would have saved both money and lives in the long run
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Old 8th February 2021, 12:52 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post

Look. Have it your way. "Dominic Cummings did not centralise the cabinet and require all cabinet ministers to succumb to his choice of aides."

Better, now?
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:06 AM   #183
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Demonstrating once again their willingness to react immediately to a public health crisis, the UK government is implementing a traveller quarantine programme - only a year after it would have been effective.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55995645

Showing their willingness to innovate, rather than doing what has demonstrably worked in Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan and elsewhere, the UK won't insist that people from all countries go through quarantine in a controlled fashion, just those from 33 countries. This list of countries will be reviewed periodically and presumably updated when a new variant has been identified and case numbers are soaring - long after that variant has entered the UK.

It's almost as if they're going for worst of both worlds, restrictions on some people arriving without actually achieving much in terms of preventing new variants coming into the UK or keeping infection numbers down.

Mrs Don travelled to the US in November 2020 and was surprised and disappointed that she wasn't asked about her reason for travelling, that quarantine at both ends was self-policing and that there was little (UK) or no (US) follow up from the authorities to ensure that she was isolating.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:34 AM   #184
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£1700 for ten days in a hotel?
Where are they putting them the Savoy?
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:40 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
£1700 for ten days in a hotel?
Where are they putting them the Savoy?
It includes meals and basic non-alcoholic drinks.

The costs presumably include enhanced security to ensure that people don't wander off and cleaning and room service staff will have to take additional (costly) precautions.

It also includes two Covid tests.

It doesn't seem an entirely unreasonable fee. I guess that part of incentive for introducing a fee is to dissuade people from travelling.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:42 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I guess that part of incentive for introducing a fee is to dissuade people from travelling.
That crossed my mind too.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:48 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It includes meals and basic non-alcoholic drinks.

The costs presumably include enhanced security to ensure that people don't wander off and cleaning and room service staff will have to take additional (costly) precautions.

It also includes two Covid tests.

It doesn't seem an entirely unreasonable fee. I guess that part of incentive for introducing a fee is to dissuade people from travelling.
How many of these are the UK expecting?

Angola
Argentina
Bolivia
Botswana
Brazil
Burundi
Cape Verde
Chile
Colombia
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Ecuador
Eswatini
French Guiana
Guyana
Lesotho
Malawi
Mauritius
Mozambique
Namibia
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Portugal (including Madeira and the Azores)
Rwanda
Seychelles
South Africa
Suriname
Tanzania
United Arab Emirates (UAE)
Uruguay
Venezuela
Zambia
Zimbabwe
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:53 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How many of these are the UK expecting?
From the BBC article:

Quote:
He said 16 hotels have been contracted for the programme, with 4,600 rooms secured.
An average of 460 people a day - so not very many at all, a couple of medium-sized planes.

To put that in perspective, depending on source there's somewhere between 15,000 and 45,000 daily arrivals at UK airports - and presumably lots of people (mostly hauliers) arriving by sea.

It really is the most token of token gestures IMO.
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Old 9th February 2021, 10:37 AM   #189
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To be fair, I read a paper that looked at different quarantine regimens and it concluded that ten days with two tests at specified times was at least as good as if not slightly better than 14 days.
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Old 9th February 2021, 11:54 AM   #190
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If failing to quarantine properly is to be punishable by up to 10yrs in prison what will be the punishment for failing to protect the country from a pandemic?
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Old 9th February 2021, 12:56 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If failing to quarantine properly is to be punishable by up to 10yrs in prison what will be the punishment for failing to protect the country from a pandemic?
I think the10 years is for lying to avoid quarantining. That probably makes it more relevant to Johnson and the Hole-in-the-Head Gang.
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Old 9th February 2021, 02:12 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If failing to quarantine properly is to be punishable by up to 10yrs in prison what will be the punishment for failing to protect the country from a pandemic?
A peerage and a big fat pay cheque for 500 words a week from Murdoch
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Old 9th February 2021, 02:14 PM   #193
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And speaking engagements, lots of them
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Old 9th February 2021, 11:23 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
To be fair, I read a paper that looked at different quarantine regimens and it concluded that ten days with two tests at specified times was at least as good as if not slightly better than 14 days.
Sure, but apply it to more than 1 percent of arrivals.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:55 AM   #195
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Which is what we're doing in Scotland, although sadly we're not trying to control our short and eminently controllable land border.
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Old 11th February 2021, 04:02 AM   #196
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It is "too early" to know whether summer holidays can go ahead, the health secretary has said.

Matt Hancock said there was still "a lot of uncertainty" but ministers were doing everything possible to make sure people could have a holiday this year.

He told the BBC he had booked his own summer break in Cornwall "months ago".

Labour and some Tory MPs have called for clarity after ministers urged the public not to book holidays at home and abroad.

Businesses have also criticised the comments as fuelling uncertainty for travel companies already struggling in the pandemic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56022858
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Old 11th February 2021, 04:08 AM   #197
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For once it is the sensible answer, but as can be seen doesn’t make for a good headline. So it will be changed by the weekend.
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Old 11th February 2021, 04:11 AM   #198
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It's a conundrum for sure.

Do the government want bad headlines for stopping people going on their summer holidays or do they want bad headlines for allowing Covid to continue to fester over the summer (fuelled by holiday travel) and end up with yet another lockdown in the autumn ?

A sensible government would have a series of objective criteria which would have to be met before different levels of lockdown could be lifted. They'd also make sure that those criteria were defined by the science, as opposed to the publicity, relating to Covid.

Sadly, to date, the UK government has shown little desire to be sensible.
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Old 11th February 2021, 04:14 AM   #199
Captain_Swoop
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I wonder how many people have summer holidays at the top of their list of things to be worried about.
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Old 11th February 2021, 04:15 AM   #200
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I have several holidays (postponed from last year) booked this year. I'm hoping they'll go ahead, but I know it's impossible to say for sure at this point. I'll need to decide at the end of March whether to pay the balance on the one booked for June, hopefully the situation will be clearer by then. If it's still not OK, I'll just have to postpone it again.
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