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Tags transgender incidents , transgender issues , transgender rights

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Old 15th February 2021, 11:11 PM   #361
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Collin237 View Post
I've always thought "human milk" is the sensible term. Every female mammal has a body section that could be called a breast -- except, ironically, a cow!
Well, that's an udder story!
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:07 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Good to see some are concentrating on the important trans issues.

https://www.wavy.com/news/health/som...ore-inclusive/
Why did they think breast is a gendered word?



They may as well call it "lactation product of the mammary glands of a womb provider"
Maybe they'd cancel womb too. Internal receptacle of nourishment?

eta: and scratch all that because I forgot about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

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Old 16th February 2021, 01:22 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Why did they think breast is a gendered word?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...cnQzg&usqp=CAU

They may as well call it "lactation product of the mammary glands of a womb provider"
Maybe they'd cancel womb too. Internal receptacle of nourishment?

eta: and scratch all that because I forgot about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation
The dictionary in the sky is falling!

Yawn.
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:08 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And of course, no performance enhancing drugs. However, if they were prescribed by a doctor for a valid medical condition, that rule was waived, so one year a transboy who was pretty bulked up from male hormones won the Texas state girls' wrestling championship.
The highlighted seems the stupid part here. A performance enhancing drug is a performance enhancing drug, it doesn't matter if it was prescribed by a doctor or not, it'll still enhance your performance relative to the rest of the field.
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:39 AM   #365
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I have to say that sport is really a field where mere self-identification simply won't do, basically at the latest after 12-13 years of age. A self-identified but non-transitioning trans girl of 17 simply should not be allowed to compete against biogically female girls. And I think that says something more universal about the idea of a declaration of self-identification as being the only criteria. It's a very complicated and sensitive issue and we have to find sensible middle ways in some areas.
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:50 AM   #366
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*only criterion. Criteria is the plural. Just saying.
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Old 16th February 2021, 03:53 AM   #367
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Transgender ideology leaving a corrosive impact on society

Interesting article.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited for breach of rule 12
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Old 16th February 2021, 05:04 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You seem perversely pleased with this negative outcome.
You'll forgive me if I don't take the notion of mild reforms being characterized as "sports communism" seriously.
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Old 16th February 2021, 05:53 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Collin237 View Post
I've always thought "human milk" is the sensible term. Every female mammal has a body section that could be called a breast -- except, ironically, a cow!
Fun fact: Monotremes (like the platypus) don't have breasts. Or nipples. But they do have mammary glands.
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Old 16th February 2021, 06:26 AM   #370
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Nobody calls the structures on other female animals "breasts". For most herbivores the word "udder" is used. I'm not sure what non-medical term is used for dogs, cats and so on, we usually just say "mammary gland". Colloquially I've mainly heard dog breeders and so on simply refer to "teats".
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Old 16th February 2021, 07:47 AM   #371
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Based on a strictly outsider view of UK politics, I would assume trans rights are probably not going to be advanced in the near future. The brits seem to be going through some incredibly destructive spiral down regressive ideology, with the whole Brexit thing and the ascendant right. I would presume the UK becomes an explicitly more racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and generally brutish place in the near future, especially if these rumblings of Northern Ireland and Scottish break-offs come to pass.

It's an interesting experience as an American to see this happen to a peer nation. Usually it's other countries gawking at us as we destroy ourselves with right-wing poison.
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Old 16th February 2021, 08:48 AM   #372
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A small mercy is that our beauticians can get on with their jobs and not have the barbed wire baseball bat brigade set on them
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Old 16th February 2021, 09:08 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
The highlighted seems the stupid part here. A performance enhancing drug is a performance enhancing drug, it doesn't matter if it was prescribed by a doctor or not, it'll still enhance your performance relative to the rest of the field.
It doesn't seem stupid to me, just a difficult trade-off between competing goods. An adult who aspired to compete in professional sports should be barred. But you don't necessarily want to be telling kids that they can't participate in school sports because of their legit medical condition with its legit required medical treatment. Every so often you get an outlier situation, but that might actually be the lesser evil.
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Old 16th February 2021, 09:10 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You'll forgive me if I don't take the notion of mild reforms being characterized as "sports communism" seriously.
Sure. But I'll not forgive you if you don't take the notion of problems caused by mild reforms seriously. You're using the mild hyperbole as an excuse to avoid addressing the real issues actually raised.
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Old 16th February 2021, 09:19 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure. But I'll not forgive you if you don't take the notion of problems caused by mild reforms seriously. You're using the mild hyperbole as an excuse to avoid addressing the real issues actually raised.
Describing any element of US government policy as communist is more than "mild" hyperbole.

Seems to me that these smaller men's sports getting squashed are as much the victims of the predominance of college football than anything else. NCAA football serves as a de-facto semi-professional league and often turns into a black hole that sucks up all available athletic spending. If it weren't for Title IX, men's football programs would likely suck up all available funding that is currently going towards women's collegiate sports.

Title IX compliance is only one element of these marginal programs being cut, and none of factors in play have anything to do with communism. Given that college football coaches often make million dollar salaries, it's about as far from communism as you can get.
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Old 16th February 2021, 09:35 AM   #376
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Unfortunately the erasure of women's rights seems to be the one area where the Scottish government is not too chicken to do the opposite from Westminster. Try to save more lives by not following Johnson's lethal "strategies"? Oh no we can't do that we must have four-nations agreement. Women want to retain their rights in the same way as women in England are being treated? No, get back in your box you bigot.
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Old 16th February 2021, 11:40 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
So without having to go read about the whole science of the census...
Are they adding a gender question as something extra? or actually using it as a real measure of # of men and # of women?

Because the second one would truly be insane and would erode the ability to track a whole bunch of public issues.
UK Census

They are adding a voluntary question on gender and keeping a compulsory one on sex.

In 2017 the ONS suggested that it would be a gender question and got a lot of pushback from biologists, public policy specialists and women.
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Old 16th February 2021, 11:48 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Based on a strictly outsider view of UK politics, I would assume trans rights are probably not going to be advanced in the near future. The brits seem to be going through some incredibly destructive spiral down regressive ideology, with the whole Brexit thing and the ascendant right. I would presume the UK becomes an explicitly more racist, xenophobic, transphobic, and generally brutish place in the near future, especially if these rumblings of Northern Ireland and Scottish break-offs come to pass.
Uk is quite enlightened by European standards
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Old 16th February 2021, 11:52 AM   #379
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It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.

Despite Collin's conspiracy theories that somehow conservatives are responsible for pro-trans legislation (and that pro-trans organizations are somehow anti-trans, like he's living in the Mirror Universe), the fact is that they are the best hope transphobes have to enact their agenda.

Here in the US, Biden made his feelings on the matter and his support of us perfectly clear, and there seems to be no dissention about that among Democrats. It was the main reason I supported him despite the hate from other leftists I dealt with in doing so, because 4 years of having my rights eroded by Trump wore me down to the point I was like "Fine! I'll support a reactionary neoliberal!".

So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.

I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist, because we realize many liberals don't really support us as much as they pretend to.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:18 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.

Despite Collin's conspiracy theories that somehow conservatives are responsible for pro-trans legislation (and that pro-trans organizations are somehow anti-trans, like he's living in the Mirror Universe), the fact is that they are the best hope transphobes have to enact their agenda.

Here in the US, Biden made his feelings on the matter and his support of us perfectly clear, and there seems to be no dissention about that among Democrats. It was the main reason I supported him despite the hate from other leftists I dealt with in doing so, because 4 years of having my rights eroded by Trump wore me down to the point I was like "Fine! I'll support a reactionary neoliberal!".

So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.

I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist, because we realize many liberals don't really support us as much as they pretend to.
Can you imagine a difference of opinion with you on some aspect of trans rights that was not coming from fear, distrust, hate, or something similar? If so, what might that look like?
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:19 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
<...>
So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.<...>
You grossly misspelled "acknowledgement of basic biology" above. HTH, HAND.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:20 PM   #382
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This isn't a hill leftists are willing to die on, which might be why it has gained so much traction. Sure, there might be a voice at the back of one's head muttering about scientific facts and fairness in sports, but there's bigger fish to fry.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:21 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
You grossly misspelled "acknowledgement of basic biology" above. HTH, HAND.
You grossly misspelled "I'm playing second fiddle".
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:25 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
UK Census

They are adding a voluntary question on gender and keeping a compulsory one on sex.

In 2017 the ONS suggested that it would be a gender question and got a lot of pushback from biologists, public policy specialists and women.
The optional question on gender identity refers to asking whether identity differs from sex registered at birth. The question on sex doesn't specify this, but the guidance says it can be answered with reference to 'legal sex', for example on a passport, which might be different from sex registered at birth. Therefore it is setting a precedent that a question on sex does not need to refer to actual biological or natal sex.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:38 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Can you imagine a difference of opinion with you on some aspect of trans rights that was not coming from fear, distrust, hate, or something similar? If so, what might that look like?
No, not really.

They can't be as up front about it as conservatives, so they couch it in things like "women's rights" or "concern for children". It's a more underhanded form of justification for bigotry.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:38 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist
Evidence?
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:42 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
No, not really.

They can't be as up front about it as conservatives, so they couch it in things like "women's rights" or "concern for children". It's a more underhanded form of justification for bigotry.
Every opinion on trans rights except yours is bigoted?
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:43 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Collin237 View Post
Every opinion on trans rights except yours is bigoted?
Did you not realise the purpose of bigoteering?
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:46 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
The optional question on gender identity refers to asking whether identity differs from sex registered at birth. The question on sex doesn't specify this, but the guidance says it can be answered with reference to 'legal sex', for example on a passport, which might be different from sex registered at birth. Therefore it is setting a precedent that a question on sex does not need to refer to actual biological or natal sex.

Is that a precedent, though? I doubt there was anything preventing a trans person from writing their sex down whatever way they wanted in previous censuses (censi?). The only way this one is different is that they would now have to state whether their answer conflicts with the sex assigned at birth.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:47 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.
It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.
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Old 16th February 2021, 12:54 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
Did you not realise the purpose of bigoteering?
I'd never heard of that word. I just had to look it up. Yes, of course that's what I meant, but if I used that word I'd be one too.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:00 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.
It's not always groupthink. Sometimes it's just avoiding zenning out on what the meaning of morality is.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:09 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Is that a precedent, though? I doubt there was anything preventing a trans person from writing their sex down whatever way they wanted in previous censuses (censi?).
Possibly not - I don't know what guidance stated in the previous census. It stands out because the guidance for the question on sex contrasts with what is stated under gender identity, where sex registered at birth is explicitly mentioned (obviously out of necessity). The introduction of the separate question on gender identity would have been a good opportunity to clarify the distinction and to emphasise that biological sex doesn't actually change. Legal sex (if changed from birth sex) is what corresponds to gender identity since it is effectively changed to match this (a legal fiction).

Quote:
The only way this one is different is that they would now have to state whether their answer conflicts with the sex assigned at birth.
Do they? They can answer the question on sex with their legal sex if this was changed from sex registered at birth, and the gender identity question is optional.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:13 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.
This is why I dislike ideology - it becomes a form of fundamentalist religion. Something is correct because it conforms to ideology (which is what political correctness actually means), not because it is true. Evidence and argument need to be crafted to arrive at a conclusion pre-determined to be correct. Also the antithesis of skepticism.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:21 PM   #395
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I don't remember the question about sex or gender in the last census, or any census come to that. I expect it just asked whether you were male or female, without defining either.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:27 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Elaedith View Post
This is why I dislike ideology - it becomes a form of fundamentalist religion. Something is correct because it conforms to ideology (which is what political correctness actually means), not because it is true. Evidence and argument need to be crafted to arrive at a conclusion pre-determined to be correct. Also the antithesis of skepticism.
It's only an anti-skeptical ideology when it's a pre-determined IS.

A pre-determined OUGHT can simply be a moral standpoint.
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Old 16th February 2021, 01:27 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
No, not really.<...>
"God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Every single bit as closed minded and intolerant.
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Old 16th February 2021, 02:17 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
But we aren't talking about cis men here, we are talking about transgender women, who are female.
No. Just no. Please stop with the anti-science screed.
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Old 16th February 2021, 02:18 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Not necessarily. Sex is more than chromosomes and reproductive organs.
This is anti-science flat-earth BS.

Sex is the type of gamete you have. End of.

Sex is NOT a feeling in your head.
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Old 16th February 2021, 02:23 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Trans women were/are always women, that's what you don't understand. I was a woman who was assigned a male gender/sex based on my genitals and the attempt was made to socialize me as a male, but it was a failure because I never accepted it.

By transitioning I'm simply correcting an error that was made early on in my life.
At birth, you were accurately identified as a male of the human species. There was no error made on the part of the doctor.
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