The Derek Chauvin/George Floyd Murder Trial - Page 2

Craig4 · 10th March 2021, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers.

Yes. The point though is convincing 12 random strangers. Take 12 random people off the street and you'll find at least two willing to argue over the color of an orange. Giving them some options allows the jurors to come to agreement.

Craig4 · 10th March 2021, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Airfix

Sleeper hold, compressing the sides of the neck restricts blood flow to the brain. This can be fatal, and was in the Floyd case.

The man was already handcuffed, and wasn't resisting.
I think there's a good chance of a murder conviction.

The sad truth is that there is a segment of the white population who would sacrifice George Floyd if it means making sure police aren't afraid to aggressively police people of color. Some of them may be on the jury.

SuburbanTurkey · 10th March 2021, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Seems worth remembering that the trial for beating King was moved from LA to Simi Valley, a suburb popular with police and police retirees. In other words, less "bootlickers" and more "blue wall".

Also, Soon Ja DU's sentence of 5 years probation for manslaughter (she accused a black girl of shoplifting, and then shot her in the back of a head when the girl placed the item she was accused of stealing on the counter and began to leave), which caused some serious though entirely misplaced anger towards Koreatown, a series of drug raids that consisted of cops knocking down doors with vehicles and tearing pretty much everything they could apart including drywall, and a rather obvious decision to just...let everyone run wild, and you get a predictable disaster.

A more multiracial protest group, but also with more riled up white nationalists/boogaloo boys, could be a rather different problem this time around.

Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk.

I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true.

plague311 · 10th March 2021, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk.

I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true.

I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash.

I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle.

ponderingturtle · 10th March 2021, 11:45 AM

What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases?

plague311 · 10th March 2021, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases?

Good question, I would assume they'll wait until this trial as done. This trial, if convicted, will easily be the longest penalty of any charge he's facing.

If it's possible between states, which I'm not sure about, any conviction from the other states would *probably* run concurrent with this sentence. I'm just not sure if they allow sentences from different states to run concurrently together. I would think so though.

SuburbanTurkey · 10th March 2021, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash.

I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle.

There's still a decent chance he "skates". If there's a hung jury, it's a mistrial and Chauvin walks free even if he's not outright acquitted. A high profile case like this likely means it will be retried, but there's always a chance that there's an insurmountable hung jury problem for future cases. If it turns out, for example, that about 1/2 the jurors won't vote to convict, that doesn't bode well for future trials.

The inclusion of the lesser charges helps hedge against this, but it's no guarantee there will be a conviction. You can't overstate how deferential people in this country are to cops, there will forever be a contingent of the population that is fine with cops murdering "bad people" in broad daylight.

plague311 · 10th March 2021, 01:25 PM

I found this article from WaPo to be pretty interesting. I have no idea if it's behind a paywall because I surf using incognito mode, so I'll refrain from quoting from it; however, it does a really good job of giving both sides of Floyd's health. What shape he was in, how much drugs he had, how it would have affected him during the arrest.

Part of it states that the defense might have caused themselves problems by calling Floyd an "addict" in their paperwork. The amount of fentanyl found in Floyd would be enough to cause an OD in a first time user, but they don't believe it would be enough to kill someone who has built up a tolerance over the years.

RolandRat · 10th March 2021, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict.

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.

I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.

SuburbanTurkey · 10th March 2021, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.

I mean, he's a cop, and they are pretty god-damn dumb and generally indifferent to human life. Also, contempt of cop is the worst crime there is, and someone had to show all these mouthy citizens that were complaining at the scene who was in charge.

I very much doubt that Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, I just think he didn't care if Floyd died as a direct result of the very dangerous injury he was inflicting. Still sounds like murder to me, but I suppose there's a difference.

Chauvin decided he was going to do this inhumane and dangerous thing, and he didn't care whether or not Floyd would survive, because Floyd's life didn't matter to him one bit. Because he's a cop, and all cops are bastards.

plague311 · 10th March 2021, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.

If you want the defense's reasoning thus far, they're claiming that the pressure on the back of Floyd's neck was not enough to cause any bruising or broken pieces. It stands to follow, according to them, that it wasn't the pressure that caused his death, so it didn't matter how long he knelt.

That being said, you're right. I can't think of any reasoning as to why he kept his knee there for that period of time.

plague311 · 11th March 2021, 09:33 AM

As a shock to absolutely no one:

Quote:

Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill has reinstated a third-degree murder charge against the former Minneapolis police officer accused of killing George Floyd.

acbytesla · 11th March 2021, 11:17 AM

I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more.

plague311 · 11th March 2021, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more.

It's one of those things in that line of work. No matter what happens they stick together.

I guess sometimes that can be a good thing. I throw other IT people under the bus every chance I get.

chrispy · 12th March 2021, 02:42 PM

So, 3rd degree murder is back on the table. Does this fact move the needle one way or the other for anyone? I personally think this is what he will be convicted of, simply because it is easier to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. What y'all think?

NPR report : https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/97600...e-floyds-killi

Thermal · 12th March 2021, 03:10 PM

I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.

chrispy · 12th March 2021, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.

Seconded.

plague311 · 15th March 2021, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.

I think it's pretty clear he already knows what's coming, that's why he wanted to get that plea bargain done. He wants it so that the Feds can't come for him on other charges.

I don't know, I have this churning in my stomach that this is going to end in a plea deal.

plague311 · 17th March 2021, 08:47 AM

Looks like there is some talk of moving the trial to a different location in Minnesota, which would help Chauvin a lot. Minneapolis is easily the biggest city in MN, and the rural areas lean heavily Republican. They've dismissed 2 more jurors because those jurors said they couldn't be impartial after hearing of the record settlement. I wish they would have held off on that announcement until after the trial. Anyway, the current breakdown of the jury looks like:

Quote:

With seven more jurors yet to be chosen before the livestreamed trial starts in earnest, the panel consists of three people of color and four people who are white. More specifically: one multiracial woman in her 20s, two Black men in their 30s, two white women in their 50s, a white man in his 20s and a white man in their 30s.

I'm not 100% sure if they select an entirely new jury if they move locations, I would assume so, but I'm not sure. It looks like Cahill will be making some major decisions tomorrow and Friday.

Quote:

Upon the settlement's announcement, defense attorney Eric Nelson put before Cahill several requests. The judge said he will consider two: delaying the trial so attorneys can have time to reassess their strategies in the context of the settlement; moving the trial to a different Minnesota city, where the influence of publicity about the case might not be as ever-present.

Source

chrispy · 20th March 2021, 08:10 PM

Judge says that trial won't be delayed or moved. Good news for the prosecution. No move to Simi Valley in this case.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-c...st-delay-move/

chrispy · 28th March 2021, 06:29 AM

Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826

Steve · 28th March 2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by chrispy

Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826

Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions.

Darat · 28th March 2021, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions.

Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions…..

Steve · 28th March 2021, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions…..

Those too.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th March 2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by chrispy

Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826

From that link, this is what I wanted to know:

Quote:

The jury is made up of nine women and six men. Nine of the jurors identify as white, four as Black and two as of mixed race. They range in ages from the 20s to the 60s.

chrispy · 28th March 2021, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

From that link, this is what I wanted to know:

A great breakdown of the jurors. WP, so maybe paywall

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-george-floyd/

plague311 · 29th March 2021, 07:41 AM

WaPo feed for the trial, they're about halfway through prosecution opening statements at the moment.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Hlafordlaes · 29th March 2021, 09:16 AM

Just watched part of the trial in which there was a replay of the event. I see first degree murder with unmistakable intent, no paliatives, no whitewashing, no excuse. Chauvin's hand in his pocket was used to add downward force, the dirty little ****. Same reaction as at the time of first reporting the event.

There is nothing, nothing I would not do to these "men" after watching that. Do not read further(!!!), unless a friend or relative of the perps, in which case, please, do read on, deary.

Darat · 29th March 2021, 09:20 AM

Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet?

chrispy · 29th March 2021, 09:24 AM

Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.

plague311 · 29th March 2021, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet?

It may take a little more time

Originally Posted by chrispy

Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.

Yeah, that was a really dumb defense. As if cops aren't supposed to have to deal with distractions in their jobs.

It's not like they had 4-5 officers there to handle anything that pops up. The fact that multiple people called the cops on the cops in the moment is going to be tough to overcome too. Some of those people were first responders.

Thermal · 29th March 2021, 09:46 AM

Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.

plague311 · 29th March 2021, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.

Yeah but...the crowd was distracting.

wasapi · 29th March 2021, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.

Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting.

chrispy · 29th March 2021, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by wasapi

Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting.

Yeah. I cried the first time I saw it and it doesn't get any easier with extra viewings.

Bogative · 29th March 2021, 11:24 AM

Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?

SuburbanTurkey · 29th March 2021, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?

Sure, if Chauvin had brutalized a generally healthier victim, he might not be facing a murder charge now.

ETA: Countdown to the defense introducing Schrodinger's black man. Simultaneously frail because of his unhealthy habits and so beastly strong that it was necessary to restrain him in this gratuitously forceful way.

chrispy · 29th March 2021, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?

Yeah, the guy was no angel and had health problems. He TOTALLY deserved having a knee in his neck for 9 minutes. Obviously.

All for a misdemeanor 20 buck fake bill.

ponderingturtle · 29th March 2021, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by chrispy

Yeah, the guy was no angel and had health problems. He TOTALLY deserved having a knee in his neck for 9 minutes. Obviously.

All for a misdemeanor 20 buck fake bill.

That he would never have been charged with in the first place.

SuburbanTurkey · 29th March 2021, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I found this article from WaPo to be pretty interesting. I have no idea if it's behind a paywall because I surf using incognito mode, so I'll refrain from quoting from it; however, it does a really good job of giving both sides of Floyd's health. What shape he was in, how much drugs he had, how it would have affected him during the arrest.

Part of it states that the defense might have caused themselves problems by calling Floyd an "addict" in their paperwork. The amount of fentanyl found in Floyd would be enough to cause an OD in a first time user, but they don't believe it would be enough to kill someone who has built up a tolerance over the years.

I don't see how they can use this evidence in defense without talking out of both sides of their mouth in a pretty obvious way.

People on heavy doses of opiods are not combatative. Loss of consciousness comes before death in an overdose scenario. People suffering through a serious OD do not need to be restrained, and they certainly don't need to be pinned to the ground by the neck by 4 cops.

I don't see how Chauvin can claim that it was necessary to use such a brutal restraint tactic and also claim that Floyd was so high on a powerful sedative that it caused his death.

If anything, Floyd being high on fentanyl out makes the use of force less justifiable.

10th March 2021, 09:26 AM	#43
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,495	Originally Posted by Mumbles Seems worth remembering that the trial for beating King was moved from LA to Simi Valley, a suburb popular with police and police retirees. In other words, less "bootlickers" and more "blue wall". Also, Soon Ja DU's sentence of 5 years probation for manslaughter (she accused a black girl of shoplifting, and then shot her in the back of a head when the girl placed the item she was accused of stealing on the counter and began to leave), which caused some serious though entirely misplaced anger towards Koreatown, a series of drug raids that consisted of cops knocking down doors with vehicles and tearing pretty much everything they could apart including drywall, and a rather obvious decision to just...let everyone run wild, and you get a predictable disaster. A more multiracial protest group, but also with more riled up white nationalists/boogaloo boys, could be a rather different problem this time around. Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk. I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

10th March 2021, 11:08 AM	#44
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk. I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true. I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash. I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

10th March 2021, 11:45 AM	#45
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,738	What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th March 2021, 11:55 AM	#46
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases? Good question, I would assume they'll wait until this trial as done. This trial, if convicted, will easily be the longest penalty of any charge he's facing. If it's possible between states, which I'm not sure about, any conviction from the other states would probably run concurrent with this sentence. I'm just not sure if they allow sentences from different states to run concurrently together. I would think so though.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

10th March 2021, 11:57 AM	#47
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,495	Originally Posted by plague311 I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash. I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle. There's still a decent chance he "skates". If there's a hung jury, it's a mistrial and Chauvin walks free even if he's not outright acquitted. A high profile case like this likely means it will be retried, but there's always a chance that there's an insurmountable hung jury problem for future cases. If it turns out, for example, that about 1/2 the jurors won't vote to convict, that doesn't bode well for future trials. The inclusion of the lesser charges helps hedge against this, but it's no guarantee there will be a conviction. You can't overstate how deferential people in this country are to cops, there will forever be a contingent of the population that is fine with cops murdering "bad people" in broad daylight.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 10th March 2021 at 11:59 AM.

10th March 2021, 09:20 AM	#41
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,840	Originally Posted by acbytesla I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers. Yes. The point though is convincing 12 random strangers. Take 12 random people off the street and you'll find at least two willing to argue over the color of an orange. Giving them some options allows the jurors to come to agreement.

10th March 2021, 09:24 AM	#42
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,840	Originally Posted by Airfix Sleeper hold, compressing the sides of the neck restricts blood flow to the brain. This can be fatal, and was in the Floyd case. The man was already handcuffed, and wasn't resisting. I think there's a good chance of a murder conviction. The sad truth is that there is a segment of the white population who would sacrifice George Floyd if it means making sure police aren't afraid to aggressively police people of color. Some of them may be on the jury.

10th March 2021, 01:25 PM	#48
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	I found this article from WaPo to be pretty interesting. I have no idea if it's behind a paywall because I surf using incognito mode, so I'll refrain from quoting from it; however, it does a really good job of giving both sides of Floyd's health. What shape he was in, how much drugs he had, how it would have affected him during the arrest. Part of it states that the defense might have caused themselves problems by calling Floyd an "addict" in their paperwork. The amount of fentanyl found in Floyd would be enough to cause an OD in a first time user, but they don't believe it would be enough to kill someone who has built up a tolerance over the years.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

10th March 2021, 01:48 PM	#49
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 999	Originally Posted by Craig4 I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict. As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse. I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.
RolandRat Muse Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 999

10th March 2021, 01:52 PM	#50
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,495	Originally Posted by RolandRat I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead. I mean, he's a cop, and they are pretty god-damn dumb and generally indifferent to human life. Also, contempt of cop is the worst crime there is, and someone had to show all these mouthy citizens that were complaining at the scene who was in charge. I very much doubt that Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, I just think he didn't care if Floyd died as a direct result of the very dangerous injury he was inflicting. Still sounds like murder to me, but I suppose there's a difference. Chauvin decided he was going to do this inhumane and dangerous thing, and he didn't care whether or not Floyd would survive, because Floyd's life didn't matter to him one bit. Because he's a cop, and all cops are bastards.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 10th March 2021 at 01:55 PM.

10th March 2021, 01:55 PM	#51
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by RolandRat I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead. If you want the defense's reasoning thus far, they're claiming that the pressure on the back of Floyd's neck was not enough to cause any bruising or broken pieces. It stands to follow, according to them, that it wasn't the pressure that caused his death, so it didn't matter how long he knelt. That being said, you're right. I can't think of any reasoning as to why he kept his knee there for that period of time.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss Last edited by plague311; 10th March 2021 at 02:02 PM.

11th March 2021, 09:33 AM	#52
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	As a shock to absolutely no one: Quote: Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill has reinstated a third-degree murder charge against the former Minneapolis police officer accused of killing George Floyd.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss Last edited by plague311; 11th March 2021 at 09:37 AM.

11th March 2021, 11:17 AM	#53
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,587	I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

11th March 2021, 11:20 AM	#54
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by acbytesla I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more. It's one of those things in that line of work. No matter what happens they stick together. I guess sometimes that can be a good thing. I throw other IT people under the bus every chance I get.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

12th March 2021, 02:42 PM	#55
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	So, 3rd degree murder is back on the table. Does this fact move the needle one way or the other for anyone? I personally think this is what he will be convicted of, simply because it is easier to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. What y'all think? NPR report : https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/97600...e-floyds-killi
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum... Last edited by chrispy; 12th March 2021 at 03:02 PM.

12th March 2021, 03:10 PM	#56
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 14,046	I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately. Actually, I insist on this demo.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

12th March 2021, 03:57 PM	#57
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Originally Posted by Thermal I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately. Actually, I insist on this demo. Seconded.
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

15th March 2021, 04:31 PM	#58
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by Thermal I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately. Actually, I insist on this demo. I think it's pretty clear he already knows what's coming, that's why he wanted to get that plea bargain done. He wants it so that the Feds can't come for him on other charges. I don't know, I have this churning in my stomach that this is going to end in a plea deal.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

17th March 2021, 08:47 AM	#59
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Looks like there is some talk of moving the trial to a different location in Minnesota, which would help Chauvin a lot. Minneapolis is easily the biggest city in MN, and the rural areas lean heavily Republican. They've dismissed 2 more jurors because those jurors said they couldn't be impartial after hearing of the record settlement. I wish they would have held off on that announcement until after the trial. Anyway, the current breakdown of the jury looks like: Quote: With seven more jurors yet to be chosen before the livestreamed trial starts in earnest, the panel consists of three people of color and four people who are white. More specifically: one multiracial woman in her 20s, two Black men in their 30s, two white women in their 50s, a white man in his 20s and a white man in their 30s. I'm not 100% sure if they select an entirely new jury if they move locations, I would assume so, but I'm not sure. It looks like Cahill will be making some major decisions tomorrow and Friday. Quote: Upon the settlement's announcement, defense attorney Eric Nelson put before Cahill several requests. The judge said he will consider two: delaying the trial so attorneys can have time to reassess their strategies in the context of the settlement; moving the trial to a different Minnesota city, where the influence of publicity about the case might not be as ever-present. Source
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

20th March 2021, 08:10 PM	#60
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Judge says that trial won't be delayed or moved. Good news for the prosecution. No move to Simi Valley in this case. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-c...st-delay-move/
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

28th March 2021, 06:29 AM	#61
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

28th March 2021, 07:48 AM	#62
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,709	Originally Posted by chrispy Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826 Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

28th March 2021, 09:30 AM	#63
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,811	Originally Posted by Steve Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions. Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions…..
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th March 2021, 09:34 AM	#64
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,709	Originally Posted by Darat Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions….. Those too.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

28th March 2021, 10:43 AM	#65
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,819	Originally Posted by chrispy Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826 From that link, this is what I wanted to know: Quote: The jury is made up of nine women and six men. Nine of the jurors identify as white, four as Black and two as of mixed race. They range in ages from the 20s to the 60s.

28th March 2021, 07:50 PM	#66
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger From that link, this is what I wanted to know: A great breakdown of the jurors. WP, so maybe paywall https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-george-floyd/
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

29th March 2021, 09:16 AM	#68
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,958	Just watched part of the trial in which there was a replay of the event. I see first degree murder with unmistakable intent, no paliatives, no whitewashing, no excuse. Chauvin's hand in his pocket was used to add downward force, the dirty little ***. Same reaction as at the time of first reporting the event. There is nothing, nothing* I would not do to these "men" after watching that. Do not read further(!!!), unless a friend or relative of the perps, in which case, please, do read on, deary. Seriously! Don't! You really ought to stop, no joke. You were warned, remember that. No reason to go on. You will be greatly displeased and regretful. Warning! Fascists get their own, coming up. No hold I would bar <ETA: censored> for chrissake.... Felt good to post, if only for a sec.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp Last edited by Hlafordlaes; 29th March 2021 at 09:19 AM.

29th March 2021, 09:20 AM	#69
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,811	Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th March 2021, 09:24 AM	#70
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

29th March 2021, 09:37 AM	#71
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by Darat Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet? It may take a little more time Originally Posted by chrispy Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though. Yeah, that was a really dumb defense. As if cops aren't supposed to have to deal with distractions in their jobs. It's not like they had 4-5 officers there to handle anything that pops up. The fact that multiple people called the cops on the cops in the moment is going to be tough to overcome too. Some of those people were first responders.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

29th March 2021, 09:46 AM	#72
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 14,046	Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

29th March 2021, 09:50 AM	#73
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,788	Originally Posted by Thermal Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera. Yeah but...the crowd was distracting.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

29th March 2021, 10:13 AM	#74
wasapi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 13,412	Originally Posted by Thermal Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera. Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting.
	__________________ Julia

29th March 2021, 11:15 AM	#75
chrispy Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Solola, Guatemala Posts: 1,095	Originally Posted by wasapi Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting. Yeah. I cried the first time I saw it and it doesn't get any easier with extra viewings.
	__________________ Just a spec in the Spectrum...

29th March 2021, 11:24 AM	#76
Bogative Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,685	Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal? Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle? Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?
	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020