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Tags Derek Chauvin , George Floyd , murder cases , police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 10th March 2021, 09:20 AM   #41
Craig4
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I find it impossible to blame his death on the drugs. He was in restraints. There is no purpose to holding him down for 8 and a half minutes. That he had drugs in his system may have made it easier for him to die may be a possibility, may even be a probability. But the direct cause of his death was the treatment of the officers.
Yes. The point though is convincing 12 random strangers. Take 12 random people off the street and you'll find at least two willing to argue over the color of an orange. Giving them some options allows the jurors to come to agreement.
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Old 10th March 2021, 09:24 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Sleeper hold, compressing the sides of the neck restricts blood flow to the brain. This can be fatal, and was in the Floyd case.

The man was already handcuffed, and wasn't resisting.
I think there's a good chance of a murder conviction.
The sad truth is that there is a segment of the white population who would sacrifice George Floyd if it means making sure police aren't afraid to aggressively police people of color. Some of them may be on the jury.
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Old 10th March 2021, 09:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Seems worth remembering that the trial for beating King was moved from LA to Simi Valley, a suburb popular with police and police retirees. In other words, less "bootlickers" and more "blue wall".

Also, Soon Ja DU's sentence of 5 years probation for manslaughter (she accused a black girl of shoplifting, and then shot her in the back of a head when the girl placed the item she was accused of stealing on the counter and began to leave), which caused some serious though entirely misplaced anger towards Koreatown, a series of drug raids that consisted of cops knocking down doors with vehicles and tearing pretty much everything they could apart including drywall, and a rather obvious decision to just...let everyone run wild, and you get a predictable disaster.

A more multiracial protest group, but also with more riled up white nationalists/boogaloo boys, could be a rather different problem this time around.
Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk.

I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true.
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Old 10th March 2021, 11:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Perhaps I'm being naïve, but I think an outright acquittal is a pretty unlikely result in this case, so perhaps that shows some progress. A hung jury, even just a lone holdout, can hamstring this case though. That seems like a very high risk.

I don't find it very palatable, but strategically, offering lesser murder or even manslaughter charges may be the wise move in order to assuage any bootlicker squishes on the jury that don't have the stomach to call a cop a murderer, even when it's obviously true.
I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash.

I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle.
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Old 10th March 2021, 11:45 AM   #45
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What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases?
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Old 10th March 2021, 11:55 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What about his Tax and Voter Fraud cases?
Good question, I would assume they'll wait until this trial as done. This trial, if convicted, will easily be the longest penalty of any charge he's facing.

If it's possible between states, which I'm not sure about, any conviction from the other states would *probably* run concurrent with this sentence. I'm just not sure if they allow sentences from different states to run concurrently together. I would think so though.
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Old 10th March 2021, 11:57 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I agree, the chances he'll skate are next to nil. Will he be punished enough to satisfy the mob is really the question. I say that because I feel that anything less than life in prison will result in some form of backlash.

I don't know what he deserves, or what he's going to get but if I were to take a stab in the dark my guess would be somewhere in the 10-20 year range with my bet being right in the middle.
There's still a decent chance he "skates". If there's a hung jury, it's a mistrial and Chauvin walks free even if he's not outright acquitted. A high profile case like this likely means it will be retried, but there's always a chance that there's an insurmountable hung jury problem for future cases. If it turns out, for example, that about 1/2 the jurors won't vote to convict, that doesn't bode well for future trials.

The inclusion of the lesser charges helps hedge against this, but it's no guarantee there will be a conviction. You can't overstate how deferential people in this country are to cops, there will forever be a contingent of the population that is fine with cops murdering "bad people" in broad daylight.
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Old 10th March 2021, 01:25 PM   #48
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I found this article from WaPo to be pretty interesting. I have no idea if it's behind a paywall because I surf using incognito mode, so I'll refrain from quoting from it; however, it does a really good job of giving both sides of Floyd's health. What shape he was in, how much drugs he had, how it would have affected him during the arrest.

Part of it states that the defense might have caused themselves problems by calling Floyd an "addict" in their paperwork. The amount of fentanyl found in Floyd would be enough to cause an OD in a first time user, but they don't believe it would be enough to kill someone who has built up a tolerance over the years.
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Old 10th March 2021, 01:48 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think adding third degree murder is smart. US prosecutors have a piss pour record on getting convictions of cops. Third degree gives the jury a compromise verdict.

As for the drugs, that's pretty powerful for the defense. I doubt it's powerful enough for a jury to get past the fact that the officer kept his knee on the guy's neck for over a minute after another officer said he couldn't find a pulse.
I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.
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Old 10th March 2021, 01:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.
I mean, he's a cop, and they are pretty god-damn dumb and generally indifferent to human life. Also, contempt of cop is the worst crime there is, and someone had to show all these mouthy citizens that were complaining at the scene who was in charge.

I very much doubt that Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, I just think he didn't care if Floyd died as a direct result of the very dangerous injury he was inflicting. Still sounds like murder to me, but I suppose there's a difference.

Chauvin decided he was going to do this inhumane and dangerous thing, and he didn't care whether or not Floyd would survive, because Floyd's life didn't matter to him one bit. Because he's a cop, and all cops are bastards.
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Old 10th March 2021, 01:55 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I know of this case but not about this case. Assuming what you say is correct, was any reason given why the officer kept his knee on the guys neck for over a minute after another officer said there was no pulse? I'm struggling to think of any other reason than the officer really wanted to make sure he was dead.
If you want the defense's reasoning thus far, they're claiming that the pressure on the back of Floyd's neck was not enough to cause any bruising or broken pieces. It stands to follow, according to them, that it wasn't the pressure that caused his death, so it didn't matter how long he knelt.

That being said, you're right. I can't think of any reasoning as to why he kept his knee there for that period of time.
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Old 11th March 2021, 09:33 AM   #52
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As a shock to absolutely no one:

Quote:
Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill has reinstated a third-degree murder charge against the former Minneapolis police officer accused of killing George Floyd.
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Old 11th March 2021, 11:17 AM   #53
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I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more.
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Old 11th March 2021, 11:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I always get concerned when a police officer is tried. My best friend is a cop. He's liberal, he's progressive, he's a Democrat and yet he stands up for the cops 95 percent of the time. If not more.
It's one of those things in that line of work. No matter what happens they stick together.

I guess sometimes that can be a good thing. I throw other IT people under the bus every chance I get.
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Old 12th March 2021, 02:42 PM   #55
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So, 3rd degree murder is back on the table. Does this fact move the needle one way or the other for anyone? I personally think this is what he will be convicted of, simply because it is easier to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. What y'all think?

NPR report : https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/97600...e-floyds-killi
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Old 12th March 2021, 03:10 PM   #56
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I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.
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Old 12th March 2021, 03:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.
Seconded.
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Old 15th March 2021, 04:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think a live-action demonstration of his restraint technique would be quite instructive for the good officer Chauvin to perform. I propose that we compress his carotid artery with a knee against the asphalt while he is handcuffed till no pulse is detectable, then continue that pressure for an additional two minutes. Then he could explain how we are all overreacting and he is really just treating "those people" appropriately.

Actually, I insist on this demo.
I think it's pretty clear he already knows what's coming, that's why he wanted to get that plea bargain done. He wants it so that the Feds can't come for him on other charges.

I don't know, I have this churning in my stomach that this is going to end in a plea deal.
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Old 17th March 2021, 08:47 AM   #59
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Looks like there is some talk of moving the trial to a different location in Minnesota, which would help Chauvin a lot. Minneapolis is easily the biggest city in MN, and the rural areas lean heavily Republican. They've dismissed 2 more jurors because those jurors said they couldn't be impartial after hearing of the record settlement. I wish they would have held off on that announcement until after the trial. Anyway, the current breakdown of the jury looks like:

Quote:
With seven more jurors yet to be chosen before the livestreamed trial starts in earnest, the panel consists of three people of color and four people who are white. More specifically: one multiracial woman in her 20s, two Black men in their 30s, two white women in their 50s, a white man in his 20s and a white man in their 30s.
I'm not 100% sure if they select an entirely new jury if they move locations, I would assume so, but I'm not sure. It looks like Cahill will be making some major decisions tomorrow and Friday.

Quote:
Upon the settlement's announcement, defense attorney Eric Nelson put before Cahill several requests. The judge said he will consider two: delaying the trial so attorneys can have time to reassess their strategies in the context of the settlement; moving the trial to a different Minnesota city, where the influence of publicity about the case might not be as ever-present.
Source
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Old 20th March 2021, 08:10 PM   #60
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Judge says that trial won't be delayed or moved. Good news for the prosecution. No move to Simi Valley in this case.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-c...st-delay-move/
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Old 28th March 2021, 06:29 AM   #61
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Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826
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Old 28th March 2021, 07:48 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826
Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions.
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Old 28th March 2021, 09:30 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Think I will just check in here occasionally for the summaries and the liberal/conservative divided discussions.
Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions…..
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Old 28th March 2021, 09:34 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or the law and order v anarchy divided discussions…..
Those too.
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Old 28th March 2021, 10:43 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Ok. Hold on to your butts. Trial starts tomorrow. I have to work, but will still have it on until anyone complains. I'm very, very curious about this one. Who else will be watching?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...trial-n1261826
From that link, this is what I wanted to know:
Quote:
The jury is made up of nine women and six men. Nine of the jurors identify as white, four as Black and two as of mixed race. They range in ages from the 20s to the 60s.
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Old 28th March 2021, 07:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From that link, this is what I wanted to know:
A great breakdown of the jurors. WP, so maybe paywall

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-george-floyd/
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Old 29th March 2021, 07:41 AM   #67
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WaPo feed for the trial, they're about halfway through prosecution opening statements at the moment.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:16 AM   #68
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Just watched part of the trial in which there was a replay of the event. I see first degree murder with unmistakable intent, no paliatives, no whitewashing, no excuse. Chauvin's hand in his pocket was used to add downward force, the dirty little ****. Same reaction as at the time of first reporting the event.

There is nothing, nothing I would not do to these "men" after watching that. Do not read further(!!!), unless a friend or relative of the perps, in which case, please, do read on, deary.
Seriously! Don't!
You really ought to stop, no joke.
You were warned, remember that. No reason to go on. You will be greatly displeased and regretful.
Warning! Fascists get their own, coming up.
No hold I would bar <ETA: censored> for chrissake.... Felt good to post, if only for a sec.
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:20 AM   #69
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Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet?
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:24 AM   #70
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Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:37 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Have they come back with the guilty verdict yet?
It may take a little more time

Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.
Yeah, that was a really dumb defense. As if cops aren't supposed to have to deal with distractions in their jobs.

It's not like they had 4-5 officers there to handle anything that pops up. The fact that multiple people called the cops on the cops in the moment is going to be tough to overcome too. Some of those people were first responders.
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:46 AM   #72
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Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.
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Old 29th March 2021, 09:50 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.
Yeah but...the crowd was distracting.
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Old 29th March 2021, 10:13 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Christ, after watching that video play out again....it's just sickening. Chauvin knew what he was doing as Floyd went limp. And the other officer who kept guard should absolutely be an accessory. This was an unapologetic broad daylight murder in front of the camera.
Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:15 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes. I actually turned the sound off and looked away. It hurts watching it happen again. It seems that I am still as horrified, disgusted, and sad as I was the first time I saw it. It is haunting.
Yeah. I cried the first time I saw it and it doesn't get any easier with extra viewings.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:24 AM   #76
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Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:26 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?
Sure, if Chauvin had brutalized a generally healthier victim, he might not be facing a murder charge now.

ETA: Countdown to the defense introducing Schrodinger's black man. Simultaneously frail because of his unhealthy habits and so beastly strong that it was necessary to restrain him in this gratuitously forceful way.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:29 AM   #78
chrispy
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Has the defense got to the part where they tell the jury that Floyd was a smoker with the China flu, 75% blockage in multiple arteries and 90% blockage in one, his lungs were so full of fluid that they weighed 2.5 times what they should have, where he had 11 ng of fentanyl in his system when 5 ng can be lethal?

Also, have they shown the officer's body cam footage where Floyd can be seen with something white, possibly drugs, on his tongue before he was pulled out of the vehicle?

Can we go ahead and start burning down cities now?
Yeah, the guy was no angel and had health problems. He TOTALLY deserved having a knee in his neck for 9 minutes. Obviously.

All for a misdemeanor 20 buck fake bill.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:31 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Yeah, the guy was no angel and had health problems. He TOTALLY deserved having a knee in his neck for 9 minutes. Obviously.

All for a misdemeanor 20 buck fake bill.
That he would never have been charged with in the first place.
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Old 29th March 2021, 11:42 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I found this article from WaPo to be pretty interesting. I have no idea if it's behind a paywall because I surf using incognito mode, so I'll refrain from quoting from it; however, it does a really good job of giving both sides of Floyd's health. What shape he was in, how much drugs he had, how it would have affected him during the arrest.

Part of it states that the defense might have caused themselves problems by calling Floyd an "addict" in their paperwork. The amount of fentanyl found in Floyd would be enough to cause an OD in a first time user, but they don't believe it would be enough to kill someone who has built up a tolerance over the years.
I don't see how they can use this evidence in defense without talking out of both sides of their mouth in a pretty obvious way.

People on heavy doses of opiods are not combatative. Loss of consciousness comes before death in an overdose scenario. People suffering through a serious OD do not need to be restrained, and they certainly don't need to be pinned to the ground by the neck by 4 cops.

I don't see how Chauvin can claim that it was necessary to use such a brutal restraint tactic and also claim that Floyd was so high on a powerful sedative that it caused his death.

If anything, Floyd being high on fentanyl out makes the use of force less justifiable.
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