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Tags Derek Chauvin , George Floyd , murder cases , police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 30th March 2021, 08:50 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The defense also had Williams say that he's choked people out that have gotten back up and fought afterwards.
That's always been the stupidest angle the racist apologist keep going back to.

"Oh so what would have happened if they had let Floyd up and he..."

What? He what? First of all he was in handcuffs.

Second of all.... who said let him up? Just stop choking him to death! It's not complicated.

The racists are super-obsessed with black people "getting away with something" by pretending to be hurt/not be able to breathe while being constrained/arrested/whatever but never actually clarifying what is they are getting away with exactly.

Because, as someone once put it, the whole "getting roughed up by the cops is part of being arrested" angle is what people are saying, they are just too cowardly to come out and say it.
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Old 30th March 2021, 08:54 AM   #122
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Chauvin: "I mistook George's neck for that kneeling rest in churches while I was praying. Mistake of fact, guys. Happens to all of us"
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:05 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You understand he was fired last year, right? The issue now is whether -- and for how long -- he goes to prison.
Yes I realize that. Doesn't stop him from owning a gun and playing a Zimmerman role.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:06 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
cops fired in one place are habitually hired in another place, since the reasons for their dismissal are usually sealed.
And there is that. The guy who shot Mike Brown was hired at a nearby police department.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:09 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The defense also had Williams say that he's choked people out that have gotten back up and fought afterwards. I'm thinking they're going after something like that as well.

Chauvin obviously had no choice but to lean on his neck for 9 minutes because people get back up afterwards sometimes!
Handcuffed and outnumbered 4 to 1, oh yeah, Floyd's going to get back up and fight.

That was the Rodney King cops' defense, "see right there in the video he wouldn't lay still."

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Old 30th March 2021, 09:28 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's always been the stupidest angle the racist apologist keep going back to.

"Oh so what would have happened if they had let Floyd up and he..."

What? He what? First of all he was in handcuffs.

Second of all.... who said let him up? Just stop choking him to death! It's not complicated.

The racists are super-obsessed with black people "getting away with something" by pretending to be hurt/not be able to breathe while being constrained/arrested/whatever but never actually clarifying what is they are getting away with exactly.

Because, as someone once put it, the whole "getting roughed up by the cops is part of being arrested" angle is what people are saying, they are just too cowardly to come out and say it.
The prosecution did a really good job of outlining, in court terms, what you're saying here. Williams understood where they were going, and while I liked him as a witness, he ****** up a bit towards the end. He became resistant and combative with the defense attorney. Understandable, but still didn't help much.

The prosecution seems to be really focusing on a) Chauvin's indifference b) the lack of checking pulse and c) that the paramedics had to basically force Chauvin to get off of Floyd's neck with the current underage witness. It was her video that went viral.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:49 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Good opening argument by the prosecution. Clear and concise. Defense saying the peole begging Chauvin to take his knee off Floyd's neck were partially responsible because they "distracted the officers attention" was a bit strange, though.
I don't know about US law, but in the UK, if a defendant claims something, the defence are pretty much obliged to run with it. If Chauvin said he was distracted, then that becomes part of his defence, even if it is utterly idiotic.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:53 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Which I thought Williams put to bed himself pretty well, too. When they asked him with regards to his experience as a security guard, how hard it was to handle those situations. He basically said it's tough, but you stay focused and manage it. Obviously none of what I'm saying is verbatim.
That’s a security guard - they have to be trained to use non-lethal force and be confident to do their job, it’s not like a police officer who is constantly in fear of their life and are not trained to not use lethal force!
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:54 AM   #129
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The main defence AFAIK is the claim Floyd died more because of the drugs he had ingested and pre-existing health conditions. Unless he was going to drop dead on the pavement anyway or it is somehow OK for police to accidentally kill people who are already unwell during an arrest, it is hard to see how that defence works.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:56 AM   #130
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They now have a 10 year old on the stand. The prosecutor asked what happened when the ambulance showed up. The little girl said, "They had to push him (Chauvin) off of Floyd."

"Did they ask him to get off of Floyd nicely?"

"Yeah"

"What did he (Chauvin) do?"

"He (Chauvin) stayed where he (Chauvin) was"

Ouch. That's going to be replayed A LOT over the next few days.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:59 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The main defence AFAIK is the claim Floyd died more because of the drugs he had ingested and pre-existing health conditions. Unless he was going to drop dead on the pavement anyway or it is somehow OK for police to accidentally kill people who are already unwell during an arrest, it is hard to see how that defence works.
That "section" of the trial hasn't started yet. They haven't really tackled much medically. Mr. Williams, the MMA fighter, spoke a bit about air chokeholds vs. blood chokeholds and how they make people go to sleep (or worse). Right now it appears the defense is mostly focusing on the crowd being disruptive and not letting the police do their jobs, therefore Floyd died because of them.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:39 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
They now have a 10 year old on the stand. The prosecutor asked what happened when the ambulance showed up. The little girl said, "They had to push him (Chauvin) off of Floyd."

"Did they ask him to get off of Floyd nicely?"

"Yeah"

"What did he (Chauvin) do?"

"He (Chauvin) stayed where he (Chauvin) was"

Ouch. That's going to be replayed A LOT over the next few days.
That was hard to watch. Those kids are scarred for life.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:43 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
That was hard to watch. Those kids are scarred for life.
I can't imagine, plus now having to relive it a year later. At least they aren't having them watch video.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:47 AM   #134
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I don't understand what the child had to offer other witnesses didn't. Anyone have any ideas why she needed to be called? Are they planning to call every single witness that was there?
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:55 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't understand what the child had to offer other witnesses didn't. Anyone have any ideas why she needed to be called? Are they planning to call every single witness that was there?
I'm assuming it was for emotional impact, something that can't be taken for granted with juries. Still, tough to put her through that.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:01 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't understand what the child had to offer other witnesses didn't. Anyone have any ideas why she needed to be called? Are they planning to call every single witness that was there?
There's value in redundancy. If multiple witnesses all testify to seeing the same thing, it has more weight as evidence. But yeah, emotional impact is also important. Juries are composed of human beings, both sides will attempt to manipulate their emotions to their own ends.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:04 AM   #137
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Her testimony was definitely more impactful than the others. Hearing a child tell them that Chauvin literally had to be pushed off of Floyd by a ******* paramedic was pretty gut wrenching. Yesterday a witness had to be introduced so that they could use her footage of the event but she was easily the most terrible witness I've seen in a long time, but the prosecution still used her. She really didn't want to be there, was passive, didn't answer questions, just overall no reason to call her, but the prosecution is going to push any video of the incident they possibly can just to get it replayed. Like ST said, there's value in redundancy and that video is tough to watch.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:18 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't understand what the child had to offer other witnesses didn't. Anyone have any ideas why she needed to be called? Are they planning to call every single witness that was there?
I hope they do. I'd put literally every person in a one mile radius around the stand and get them to say the same thing over and over.

The defense is going to lie. A lot. They are literally going to deny reality as it occurred.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:27 AM   #139
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The trial's resumed now, but I'm not sure who is on the stand. It's another juvenile that is of at least driving age but I'm not sure if they're male or female, or what relevance they have.

It appears the defense has chosen not to cross the 10 yo child.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:39 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's still a crime to murder black people when they are sick.
Unless you are a cop, then murdering black people is a perk of the job.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:41 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
At some point one (more) of these trials will end in a murder conviction and other police will get the message. At some point these cops will learn there are cameras everywhere, time to stop lying on every police report where they injure someone, or falsely arrest someone.

There will be a point.
Yea right we have cops recording themselves planting evidence and not even losing their job, where do you get this idea that police will ever have to abide by reasonable standards?
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:41 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The trial's resumed now, but I'm not sure who is on the stand. It's another juvenile that is of at least driving age but I'm not sure if they're male or female, or what relevance they have.

It appears the defense has chosen not to cross the 10 yo child.
Pretty clearly a girl who was 17 at the time, who is testifying now that she saw Chauvin continue to crush Floyd's neck even after EMTs arrived.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:42 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
I'm assuming it was for emotional impact, something that can't be taken for granted with juries. Still, tough to put her through that.
Also, children are presumed to not have a political or personal bias and innocently tell the truth.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:45 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This witness testimony is certainly incriminating: NPR: Minneapolis 911 Dispatcher Testifies: 'Something Was Wrong'
Has she been fired yet for being a snitch?
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:45 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Also, children are presumed to not have a political or personal bias and innocently tell the truth.
Very true. Good point.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:47 AM   #146
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I think it's not about any sort of proving any sort of inherent honesty but that the more people you get from more varied backgrounds to repeat the same story, it becomes less and less likely that they are going to make up the same lie and/or mistake the situation in the exact same way.

If a 10 year old girl and a 30 year old MMA fighter see the same thing, odds are getting good it's somewhat close to the truth. Now multiply that by even more witnesses.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:55 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think it's not about any sort of proving any sort of inherent honesty but that the more people you get from more varied backgrounds to repeat the same story, it becomes less and less likely that they are going to make up the same lie and/or mistake the situation in the exact same way.

If a 10 year old girl and a 30 year old MMA fighter see the same thing, odds are getting good it's somewhat close to the truth. Now multiply that by even more witnesses.
This more so. But pretty much everyone above has a valid point. It all adds up to a damning mountain of evidence.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:56 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Pretty clearly a girl who was 17 at the time, who is testifying now that she saw Chauvin continue to crush Floyd's neck even after EMTs arrived.
I just hadn't heard the name or anything until they got deeper into it. It wasn't clear to me at the time and my main goal was to point out that they had changed witnesses after the recess. Also that the defense chose not to interview the 10 yo, but thank you for the correction. You're correct. Another witness with footage it appears that the defense is using.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:59 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I just hadn't heard the name or anything until they got deeper into it. It wasn't clear to me at the time and my main goal was to point out that they had changed witnesses after the recess. Also that the defense chose not to interview the 10 yo, but thank you for the correction. You're correct. Another witness with footage it appears that the defense is using.
She's got some stones. The teen-age girl was telling the cops to check his pulse and demanding their badge numbers.
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Old 30th March 2021, 12:02 PM   #150
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I swear, if this guy gets off... I don't know. I just can't anymore. This **** is ridiculous.
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Old 30th March 2021, 12:02 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
She's got some stones. The teen-age girl was telling the cops to check his pulse and demanding their badge numbers.
And, as sadly too often, the cops respond with "Now my cop pee pee feels small, how dare you tell me what to do civilian, now I'm going kneel on his neck even harder for no reason then to prove I'm in charge here."
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Old 30th March 2021, 12:03 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
I swear, if this guy gets off...
I'm hoping that Little Miss "Ooopies me wrong apartment not my fault I was tired and horny" getting at least... some kind of sentence was more than a freaking occurrence and a sign of shifting winds.
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Old 30th March 2021, 12:29 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That "section" of the trial hasn't started yet. They haven't really tackled much medically. Mr. Williams, the MMA fighter, spoke a bit about air chokeholds vs. blood chokeholds and how they make people go to sleep (or worse). Right now it appears the defense is mostly focusing on the crowd being disruptive and not letting the police do their jobs, therefore Floyd died because of them.
As an ex cop, lots of what we did attracted a crowd. It never stopped us from doing our job. The way I was taught was if an arrest attracted a crowd, or was in a crowd, then we had to get us and the arrested person away as quickly as possible, so defusing the situation and reducing risk.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:16 PM   #154
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Now a female Minneapolis firefighter is testifying to her observations as a certified EMT.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:19 PM   #155
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Perhaps this has already been answered, but what exactly was Chauvin supposedly waiting for?

Floyd certainly wasn't resisting by the time he went unconscious and later died, and yet he continued the restraint. Testimony from witnesses today claim that he had to be pushed off Floyd's neck by the EMT crew. What exact feedback was Chauvin waiting for that would have resulted in him ending the dangerous neck hold?

At the end of the incident, Chauvin was restraining a dead body. Other than intending to kill Floyd, what possible purpose could this have?
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:22 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yea right we have cops recording themselves planting evidence and not even losing their job, where do you get this idea that police will ever have to abide by reasonable standards?
I know all that, obviously. Did lynchings ever stop? Segregated everything ever stop?

At some point things do change.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:29 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Pretty clearly a girl who was 17 at the time, who is testifying now that she saw Chauvin continue to crush Floyd's neck even after EMTs arrived.
It's on the video as it is clear Floyd is dead by that time. Of course he could have just been limp. But I reviewed the info from the ambulance to the hospital and he was dead before the knee was removed from his neck.

First responders tried to save George Floyd’s life for almost an hour
Quote:
Firefighters were notified that medical staff who just left the scene needed help, so they moved a few blocks away to meet up with the ambulance.

Two firefighters then entered the ambulance and helped to prepare IV and medications as a medic was performing chest compressions on Floyd, the report said.

While en route to the hospital, EMS workers called ahead that they were on the way. ....

"Thirties, male, was being detained by PD … was on a … was a cardiac arrest upon EMS arrival, apparently doing CPR, getting access, getting vitals, bagging, calling ACLS [advanced cardiovascular life support], we’ll be there in six minutes, red medical, COVID symptoms are unknown.”
IOW, dead.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:32 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And, as sadly too often, the cops respond with "Now my cop pee pee feels small, how dare you tell me what to do civilian, now I'm going kneel on his neck even harder for no reason then to prove I'm in charge here."
I agree with this, murder because bystanders were in contempt of cop.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:35 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Perhaps this has already been answered, but what exactly was Chauvin supposedly waiting for?
That's a very good question.

They already had 3 police cars and I think 6 police officers on station for the *checks notes* handcuffed on the ground suspect so I think "more backup" is rather unlikely.
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Old 30th March 2021, 01:36 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Perhaps this has already been answered, but what exactly was Chauvin supposedly waiting for?

Floyd certainly wasn't resisting by the time he went unconscious and later died, and yet he continued the restraint. Testimony from witnesses today claim that he had to be pushed off Floyd's neck by the EMT crew. What exact feedback was Chauvin waiting for that would have resulted in him ending the dangerous neck hold?

At the end of the incident, Chauvin was restraining a dead body. Other than intending to kill Floyd, what possible purpose could this have?
I remember at the time of the murder hearing something about them knowing eachother from the club Floyd worked security at, but haven't heard anything about it since. Does anyone know any info that I don't? If they did know eachother, maybe a personal grudge?
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