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Old 25th March 2021, 12:57 PM   #81
bruto
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Funny thing, I've read the Bible but don't remember the law about voting. Is that a new translation or something? I do remember this raggy bloke Jesus somethingorother saying the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath, but who is he to go against the word of the great gray horseman in the sky?
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Old 25th March 2021, 02:29 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
'No voting on Sundays because it would offend God' according to MS Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith. I guess she thinks everyone is a Christian. What next? Is she going to demand all stores close down on Sundays in order to "keep the Sabbath Holy"? Or is it only voting on Sundays that makes offends God? Her "objection" is so ridiculously and obviously just another excuse in the effort to pass Jim Crow 2 voter suppression laws targeted at Black voters who have a tradition of voting on Sundays after attending church services.
Evidently, campaigning for a vote on Sunday is ok (Daily Beast):

Quote:
It was the last Sunday of November, two days before her runoff with Democratic rival Mike Espy, and as Hyde-Smith urged the crowd of about 40 supporters to get to the polls on Tuesday, she cracked a joke about the church service she had just left.

“We had a really good visit this morning in Columbus. We’ve been to the Pentacostal Church, had a great worship service. We came out of there and I thought, I mean, Jesus has lifted me up,” she said shortly after noon, to laughter and applause.

If she had felt uncomfortable urging people to vote for her that day, she didn’t show it, smoothly pivoting to telling the room to “be there” the next day at then-President Donald Trump’s rally in nearby Tupelo.
I don't know why it's so hard for these chuckleheads to get this- if your religion imposes strictures on you that you are willing to bow to through your belief in it, you're free to not vote on Sunday. But freedom of religion is for everyone, which means that people who don't think their religion imposes that stricture aren't bound by it- your freedom with regard to your religion ends with your actions.

Gee, it's almost as if we need some sort of provision in the Constitution that keeps religion out of secular concerns like elections; we could call it, oh, I don't know, "separation of church and state."
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Old 25th March 2021, 03:59 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The simple workaround for all the black churches (because these are the people being targeted by these racist voter suppression laws) is to hold a special "Give Thanks for Democracy" service on the last couple of Saturday mornings before election day.
Yeah, maybe, but they shouldn't have to.
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:06 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Evidently, campaigning for a vote on Sunday is ok (Daily Beast):



I don't know why it's so hard for these chuckleheads to get this- if your religion imposes strictures on you that you are willing to bow to through your belief in it, you're free to not vote on Sunday. But freedom of religion is for everyone, which means that people who don't think their religion imposes that stricture aren't bound by it- your freedom with regard to your religion ends with your actions.

Gee, it's almost as if we need some sort of provision in the Constitution that keeps religion out of secular concerns like elections; we could call it, oh, I don't know, "separation of church and state."
BLASPHEMY! GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!!

This is the kind of thinking that results when we allow our kids to be brainwashed by attending those dens of radical liberalism that pass as universities today. Professors that infect them with Godless ideas like socialism, communism, feminism and, dare I say it.....homosexualism! All the "isms" that only snakes, prayer, Jerry Falwell, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity and Donald Trump himself can cure!
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:07 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
.....
The Georgia law makes it illegal for ANYONE, whether they are with a charity or a non-partisan public service organisation, to hand a water or a snack to someone in a polling line. They are criminalizing acts of kindness and human decency (which should come a no surprise from Repugnicans).
.....
Does the law explicitly prohibit providing them? Or just giving them? Could you sell them for nickel? Or could you set up tables a specified distance from the poll and give/sell them?

This particular restriction has gotten a lot of attention, but it just means voters will know to bring supplies. The bigger issues are cutting early voting days and voting hours, purging voter rolls, enforcing complex ID requirements, making it harder to vote absentee or even register to vote, etc. etc.
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:09 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Funny thing, I've read the Bible but don't remember the law about voting. Is that a new translation or something? I do remember this raggy bloke Jesus somethingorother saying the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath, but who is he to go against the word of the great gray horseman in the sky?
You must not have a copy of the Revised Republican Version.
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Old 25th March 2021, 05:33 PM   #87
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Michael Harriot tweeted

@michaelharriot
If you want to understand how white Supremacy works,

135 white people just rigged an election in broad daylight and they arrested a Black woman for knocking on the door to watch
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Old 25th March 2021, 06:29 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yeah, maybe, but they shouldn't have to.
Perhaps, but I'd love to see them do so, even of its for no other reason than having the pleasure of seeing them give the Georgia legislature the extended middle finger!
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Old 25th March 2021, 06:48 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
'No voting on Sundays because it would offend God' according to MS Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith. I guess she thinks everyone is a Christian. What next? Is she going to demand all stores close down on Sundays in order to "keep the Sabbath Holy"? Or is it only voting on Sundays that makes offends God? Her "objection" is so ridiculously and obviously just another excuse in the effort to pass Jim Crow 2 voter suppression laws targeted at Black voters who have a tradition of voting on Sundays after attending church services.
So it seems she's quite happy with violating the 1st Amendment if it benefits her. This would be brilliant evidence to give SCotUS when this case arrives. Even with the Republican-packed bench, they might bulk at such a flagrant violation of the Constitution.

And just for the record, the Sabbath is from 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday and the Sabbath Laws don't apply to Christians.
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Old 25th March 2021, 07:23 PM   #90
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My polling station is usually a portacabin in the local supermarket's car park.
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Old 26th March 2021, 10:00 AM   #91
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TThe bill is chokcing in how open it is about being aimed at Afro Amereican voters.
Any degree of resistence to this is fully jusjtified. If we nered to have a second cevil war to preserve democracy,so be it. I am no pacifist.
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Old 26th March 2021, 10:18 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Does the law explicitly prohibit providing them? Or just giving them? Could you sell them for nickel? Or could you set up tables a specified distance from the poll and give/sell them?

This particular restriction has gotten a lot of attention, but it just means voters will know to bring supplies. The bigger issues are cutting early voting days and voting hours, purging voter rolls, enforcing complex ID requirements, making it harder to vote absentee or even register to vote, etc. etc.
You're not wrong that a prohibition on handing out water isn't the largest single issue in voter suppression. But the whole thing is a death by 1000 cuts, and I think there is some merit in pointing out the attacks that are the most absurd and without even potentially reasonable justification as a part of revealing that the motivations for all of these actions are suppression, not security.
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Old 26th March 2021, 10:26 AM   #93
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There's absolutely no widespread or statistically sinificant illegal voting in the US.

GOP controlled Georgia still passed a law against it with the totally accidental not at all on purpose side effect of suppressing black and Democratic voters.

We have a mass shooting every .0004 seconds and the GOP can't even consider the idea of any just... like review. Like even just take a look at it, of our current gun laws.

The GOP literally thinks black people voting is more dangerous than guns.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:04 PM   #94
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For those who don't know, the signing ceremony (where Kemp is surrounded by other white men, while a black state rep is arrested just outside for knocking to witness the signing, pictured here) was held under a painting of a plantation where the enslaved worked the fields. There are times where I'm quite willing to say "So, all things considered, I will not extend the benefit of the doubt to this." THis is one of those times.

The problem, as many of us had pointed out roughly 4.5 years ago, is that the Supreme Court has already unjustifiably tossed out the Voting Rights Act section 2 (again, The VRA was written as it was specifically because it was known that bigots would be innovative in was to suppress voters, it allowed jurisdictions to remove themselves from preclearance by not being found to have done so for 10 years, and some jurisdictions had already managed to do exactly this, so this hurdle was achievable and demonstrably achieved - IOW, the jurisdictions still covered under preclearance when the Supreme Court claimed "nobody is trying to suppress black voters" were exactly those that had been shown to have attempted to suppress black voters repeatedly over the previous decade).

In other words, the current majority is outright hostile to voting rights for minorities - which is why we get to the discussion of what to do about a Supreme Court that outright refuses to rule according to the plain meaning of the reconstruction amendments.

Another point: Page 9 of the PDF I'm linking here shows the effect of heavy restrictions on voting between 1900 and 2010 - well past the passage of the VRA - note the effect of both black *and* white voters. As always, white supremacism is worse for black people, but damaging for many white people as well.

Last edited by Mumbles; 26th March 2021 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
BLASPHEMY! GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!!

This is the kind of thinking that results when we allow our kids to be brainwashed by attending those dens of radical liberalism that pass as universities today. Professors that infect them with Godless ideas like socialism, communism, feminism and, dare I say it.....homosexualism! All the "isms" that only snakes (Jerry Falwell, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Donald Trump), and prayer can cure!
I have corrected your punctuation and grammar.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:13 PM   #96
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Just so we are clear it's illegal to give food or water to people voting but still absolutely legal to give billions in bribes to elected officials, right?
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Old 26th March 2021, 02:30 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Just so we are clear it's illegal to give food or water to people voting but still absolutely legal to give billions in bribes to elected officials, right?
Well yeah. Those elected officials don't have to stand in line to vote.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:09 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Funny thing, I've read the Bible but don't remember the law about voting. Is that a new translation or something? I do remember this raggy bloke Jesus somethingorother saying the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath, but who is he to go against the word of the great gray horseman in the sky?
It says, "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" according to the stupid Congresswoman herself.

Of course there is no definition of what that means. Some Judeo-Christian religions define it to mean no one is allowed to lift a finger on that day. In New Zealand (if they still do it) everything's closed but places like gas stations rotate who closes on Sundays.

But to call voting "unholy" takes it to a new level.


Fortunately for the country, the lawsuits were filed before the governor's ink was dry. MotherJones: Georgia’s New Voter Suppression Law Is Hit With Its First Lawsuit
Quote:
Shortly after Georgia enacted a sweeping voter suppression bill that could make it easier for Republicans to overturn election results, three groups on Thursday announced a lawsuit intended to block the measure. Calling the legislation an effort to impose “unconstitutional burdens on the right to vote”—particularly for Black voters—the plaintiffs accused Georgia Republicans of acting in direct response to former President Donald Trump’s stunning campaign to undo Joe Biden’s 2020 victory in the state.

The voting law has attracted national attention, as well as fierce condemnation from Democrats.
I don't think the Sunday voting is a hill worth dying on (black churches will find another way to carry out souls for the polls). But the section where election officials could just decide the vote was rather ming-boggling.

These guys were not only convinced Trump won the election, they bought into it hook, line and sinker that the officials whose job it was to rubber stamp the certification really did have the powers to decide the election any way they wanted.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:35 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It says, "remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" according to the stupid Congresswoman herself....<snip>

.
Yup, back when the sabbath was a SATURDAY, Jesus parried the criticism of the PHARISEES and remarked that the sabbath was made for man, etc. and that the Son of man is lord of the sabbath, whereupon the Pharisees held counsel with the Herodians on how to destroy him.

In other words, if you want to cherry pick the Bible, you can quite easily quote either Mark or Matthew and point out that our Congresswoman is a Pharisaical foe, not only of truth, but of Jesus Christ himself (or, for those who require it, Himself).

Now I don't much hold with religion, and think the Congresswoman is just being a voter-suppressing, hypocritical yahoo, but the religion game is pretty easily played.
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
You're not wrong that a prohibition on handing out water isn't the largest single issue in voter suppression. But the whole thing is a death by 1000 cuts, and I think there is some merit in pointing out the attacks that are the most absurd and without even potentially reasonable justification as a part of revealing that the motivations for all of these actions are suppression, not security.
Yep.

And with every one of the 1000 cuts they tacitly promulgate the message “yeah, we just did that - and we’re going to do more - and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
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Old 26th March 2021, 08:38 PM   #101
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Sabbath is still SATURDAY.

There is no 'Good Faith' argument (pun intended) coming from religious nuts, since none of them actually know anything about the book they claim to have read.
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Old 27th March 2021, 10:48 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Just so we are clear it's illegal to give food or water to people voting but still absolutely legal to give billions in bribes to elected officials, right?
It's technically illegal to give money directly to elected officials.

Thanks to the Citizens United decision, it is legal to spend millions spreading smears and lies about their opponent as an educational message. Best of all you can do so without reviling your actual identity. Under the law you can't coordinate these efforts with the elected official but even that is easy to game. All you need is three loyal party hacks on the FEC willing to look the other way at any offenses that benefit your party.
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Old 27th March 2021, 10:54 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
In New Zealand (if they still do it) everything's closed but places like gas stations rotate who closes on Sundays.
Sort of....

Most places are closed on Sundays. Exceptions are businesses in shopping malls which are usually at least open in the morning. Also supermarkets, dairies (In the US they call them drug stores, in Australia, Delis, in the UK, newsagents) gas stations and mass market stores such as K-Mart and The Warehouse, which are usually open late 7 days.

Banks and businesses with no retail front, such as insurance companies, utilities and finance houses are closed on both Saturday and Sunday.
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Old 27th March 2021, 08:07 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't think the Sunday voting is a hill worth dying on (black churches will find another way to carry out souls for the polls). But the section where election officials could just decide the vote was rather ming-boggling.
And that is a grievous error on your part. Voting in Georgia, to the best of my understanding, is already restricted to normal business hours*. Meaning that, if you happen to be a working class individual who is employed during those hours, week-ends are the only time you would be able to physically show up at the polls. And the bill just gave officials the power to cut available week-end hours in half.

Juxtapose this information with the fact that Atlanta and other urban centers have had 3+ hour wait times ALREADY in the past few elections and the bill just made it illegal to provide food or water to those in line...

Bill full text for reference: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legisla...0212022/201121

* If I'm mistaken on this matter, I hope someone will please correct me.

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Old 28th March 2021, 02:18 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Sort of....

Most places are closed on Sundays. Exceptions are businesses in shopping malls which are usually at least open in the morning. Also supermarkets, dairies (In the US they call them drug stores, in Australia, Delis, in the UK, newsagents) gas stations and mass market stores such as K-Mart and The Warehouse, which are usually open late 7 days.

Banks and businesses with no retail front, such as insurance companies, utilities and finance houses are closed on both Saturday and Sunday.
I'm not sure where you are, but here most retail business is open on Sunday morning at least between 9am - 12pm, some of the bigger ones are open to much later, even 5pm. It's pretty much just offices and trades that are closed. A number of Service Stations and fast food places, such as McD's and BK, are open 24-hours over the weekend.
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Old 28th March 2021, 05:28 AM   #106
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Next major election, the Democrats will show up in mass to give water to voters. "I got arrested giving water to voters" t-shirts will be printed and handed out.
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Old 28th March 2021, 05:48 AM   #107
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How close to a polling place do you have to be to be "in the queue to vote"? Any specification? Whatever it is, set up water/snack stands about 2 feet further away than that. Not illegal, and will annoy the crap out of the legislators.
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Old 28th March 2021, 06:23 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Next major election, the Democrats will show up in mass to give water to voters. "I got arrested giving water to voters" t-shirts will be printed and handed out.
That would be an interesting bit of mass civil disobedience, but I doubt it, because the law makes it a felony, which means if you're convicted you probably lose the right to vote forever. They've rigged the risk disproportionately, on purpose I imagine.
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Old 28th March 2021, 08:58 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
That would be an interesting bit of mass civil disobedience, but I doubt it, because the law makes it a felony, which means if you're convicted you probably lose the right to vote forever. They've rigged the risk disproportionately, on purpose I imagine.
A felony conviction for handing out water to voters in Georgia would be a badge of honor for a civil rights activist. A felony conviction won’t keep you from voting outside of the old confederacy. It’s time for a new genera of freedom rides to hop on busses and head south.

The Supreme Court overthrew the part of the voting rights act that required places with a history of discrimination to get approval before changing voting laws. The decision was based in the claim that racism was a thing of the past. What Georgia just did makes it clear the court was wrong. The only real change from the Jim Crow era is that the Republicans are now the party of white supremacy.
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Old 28th March 2021, 09:34 AM   #110
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Has anyone considered if this isn’t even more insidious… I mean if you need the state to “give” you welfare to obtain food and water then you can’t be a registered voter…..
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Old 28th March 2021, 09:49 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
A felony conviction for handing out water to voters in Georgia would be a badge of honor for a civil rights activist. A felony conviction won’t keep you from voting outside of the old confederacy. It’s time for a new genera of freedom rides to hop on busses and head south.

The Supreme Court overthrew the part of the voting rights act that required places with a history of discrimination to get approval before changing voting laws. The decision was based in the claim that racism was a thing of the past. What Georgia just did makes it clear the court was wrong. The only real change from the Jim Crow era is that the Republicans are now the party of white supremacy.
That was the cover, yes, and it was a laughably and demonstrably false one at the time.

The reality is that we're discussing justices like Roberts, whose hostility to civil rights stems back to his work under Rehnquist and showed as early as his work to erode civil rights in the DoJ under Reagan.

Another key is the racial pessimist Clarance Thomas, who largely insists that the white majority will always be structurally racist (a position which, hilariously, white conservatives often subscribe to "the left"), and thinks that black people should form separate, and strongly paternalistic, communities.

(right-wing Ethnocentrism often act as mirror images photo-negatives of one another - they incorporate the same basic facts into their worldviews, yet they always manage to be anti-feminist and anti-LGBT).

One of the problems is that, rather than insisting on evidence showing that voting restrictions are necessary to ensure fair voting, they take a "whatever you say" approach, despite voting being a clear foundation to other rights (as the Jim Crow era amply demonstrates). Combine this with a GOP whose 20200 platform was "We'll do whatever Dolt 45 says", which amounted to little more that pointless bigotry and grifting, and you end up with a real mess.

(which is exactly what many of us warned the so-called online left about back in 2016, but you know, Bernie was cheated by not getting votes, and her emails, and so on)
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Old 28th March 2021, 10:21 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
And that is a grievous error on your part. Voting in Georgia, to the best of my understanding, is already restricted to normal business hours*. Meaning that, if you happen to be a working class individual who is employed during those hours, week-ends are the only time you would be able to physically show up at the polls. And the bill just gave officials the power to cut available week-end hours in half.

Juxtapose this information with the fact that Atlanta and other urban centers have had 3+ hour wait times ALREADY in the past few elections and the bill just made it illegal to provide food or water to those in line...

Bill full text for reference: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legisla...0212022/201121

* If I'm mistaken on this matter, I hope someone will please correct me.
I'm sorry, I missed just what is my grievous error.

As for lines already being long, and?

Do you think this GOP voter suppression started this year? Because no, it is simple getting worse as the GOP struggles to hold on to power.
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Old 28th March 2021, 10:47 AM   #113
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The Georgia law prohibiting giving water to voters in line can be made moot by eliminating voting lines. Pass a federal voting rights act that mandates no excuse mail in ballots and requires multiple drop off locations in counties with large populations.

Does the voting bill already passed by the House include these provisions?
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Old 28th March 2021, 11:21 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
That would be an interesting bit of mass civil disobedience, but I doubt it, because the law makes it a felony, which means if you're convicted you probably lose the right to vote forever. They've rigged the risk disproportionately, on purpose I imagine.
This is exactly what I expect. I expect celebrities, sports stars, major political figures to show up with mountains of pizzas and cases of water (though they should encourage people to bring reusable water bottles and fill them). Then, I expect all those people will have high-priced lawyers waiting in the wings to pounce.
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Old 28th March 2021, 11:29 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Georgia law prohibiting giving water to voters in line can be made moot by eliminating voting lines. Pass a federal voting rights act that mandates no excuse mail in ballots and requires multiple drop off locations in counties with large populations.

Does the voting bill already passed by the House include these provisions?
These...are good questions, actually!

Short answer is "yes, among other matters".

Here's John Sarbanes' explanation of HR1, including a link to the text contained in the bill itself.

Here's the basics on the John Lewis Voting Rights Act at Sen. Leahy's site - note that this is more about restoring the damage Shelby v. Holder did to the 1965 VRA, including widening the scope of what can be brought to court by the DoJ, as well as restoring preclearance to all states that repeatedly try to racially suppress voters.
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Old 28th March 2021, 11:30 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
The Georgia law prohibiting giving water to voters in line can be made moot by eliminating voting lines. Pass a federal voting rights act that mandates no excuse mail in ballots and requires multiple drop off locations in counties with large populations.

Does the voting bill already passed by the House include these provisions?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-...se-bill/1/text

Voting by mail: SEC. 307. Promoting ability of voters to vote by mail.

Ballot Dropboxes: SEC. 311. Use of secured drop boxes for voted absentee ballots.
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Old 28th March 2021, 12:23 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
This is exactly what I expect. I expect celebrities, sports stars, major political figures to show up with mountains of pizzas and cases of water (though they should encourage people to bring reusable water bottles and fill them). Then, I expect all those people will have high-priced lawyers waiting in the wings to pounce.
I hope you're right. I think it would be a grand idea. I only worry that there's a "disenfranchisement gotcha" built in.

But yes, I 'd love to see it. Maybe a few old civil rights leaders, who can say "sure, go ahead, arrest me....again!" Maybe someone like Gloria Richardson, who is now 98, a major actor in the desegregation of Maryland, a friend of John Lewis as well as of the multi-racial college students who filled out the sitins there. Have her hand out some water and just dare them to stop her.

Wishful thinking, I know, but it would make some headlines, wouldn't it?
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Old 28th March 2021, 02:11 PM   #118
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I'm hoping that Atlanta residents and others are feeling empowered and will be motivated to challenge restrictions as they arise - and to absolutely know their rights otherwise. After just looking into Texas's one-drop-off-box-per-county limit, which is nuts, I find that people did also have the option to vote early at several locations and people have 45 days to get to the drop-off box.

This case was upheld by the Texas Supreme Court. It still seems designed to suppress voting and therefore IMO is unconstitutional. But someone just hearing that in Texas might get discouraged and might not know the other options.

My conservative state somehow has a lovely mail-in vote law. I don't know how that happened.
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Old 28th March 2021, 02:14 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'm hoping that Atlanta residents and others are feeling empowered and will be motivated to challenge restrictions as they arise - and to absolutely know their rights otherwise. After just looking into Texas's one-drop-off-box-per-county limit, which is nuts, I find that people did also have the option to vote early at several locations and people have 45 days to get to the drop-off box.

This case was upheld by the Texas Supreme Court. It still seems designed to suppress voting and therefore IMO is unconstitutional. But someone just hearing that in Texas might get discouraged and might not know the other options.

My conservative state somehow has a lovely mail-in vote law. I don't know how that happened.
They gotta cater to the slowpoke cowboys?
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Old 28th March 2021, 04:07 PM   #120
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I wonder what the exact text of the law is. How far from the polling location would a food/water distribution have to be to be compliant? The old Georgia law prohibited campaigning within 150 feet of the building. It would seem that a line that takes hours to get through would be longer than 150 feet, so unless food and beverages are specifically treated differently than other forms of campaigning wouldn't the law be unenforceable?
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