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Old 5th April 2021, 09:13 AM   #241
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you were going to the All Star game
that now will be somewhere else it would cost you probably 6 bucks.

Although supposedly the reason is not so much the buying of votes but electioneering while giving the drinks to those in line.
I know in NY they told the man ahead of me in line leave because he had a MAGA sweatshirt on. He was not talking to people. Not the same exactly.
Many states have rules about political apparel at polling sites.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/us/el...rnd/index.html

The idea that electioneering is going to happen when cheap water bottles are being handed in multi-hour long lines is frankly a GQP desperate search to find a problem. Itís frankly pathetic.

Of course, while we fret about the water issue we ignore that the Bill says that opinion some folks donít like the results they can nullify them in select locations. If the GQP is gonna cheat they are bringing out the big cheaterís guns.
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:17 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If you were going to the All Star game
that now will be somewhere else it would cost you probably 6 bucks.

Although supposedly the reason is not so much the buying of votes but electioneering while giving the drinks to those in line.
I know in NY they told the man ahead of me in line leave because he had a MAGA sweatshirt on. He was not talking to people. Not the same exactly.
Here in GA ostensibly you can't wear political clothing or do other electioneering, but that didn't stop the poll worker directing the line from cracking jokes about how bad Democrats are with people waiting in line to vote in the last election.
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:34 AM   #243
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NVM

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Old 5th April 2021, 09:34 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Many states have rules about political apparel at polling sites.
The problem with that is those laws were created in a time where "facts" weren't political.

At this point you could wear a shirt that says "Water is wet" and someone would say "Not according to Republican tentpoles..."
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Old 5th April 2021, 12:03 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The problem with that is those laws were created in a time where "facts" weren't political.

At this point you could wear a shirt that says "Water is wet" and someone would say "Not according to Republican tentpoles..."
And regardless, the voting groups are trained, specifically, to outright refuse to state any political position, and they're handing out water/snacks/seating to *everyone*. Much like how the folks that sat at lunch counters were trained to not react to *anything* the angry crowd, or the police would do.

They wear shirts that mention their group, generic pants/skirts/shorts, ensure the snacks are identifiable as "Poland Spring" or "Rice Crispy Treat" or whatever, with no mention of anything on the ballot at any level, and so forth.
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Old 5th April 2021, 01:09 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Many states have rules about political apparel at polling sites.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/14/us/el...rnd/index.html

The idea that electioneering is going to happen when cheap water bottles are being handed in multi-hour long lines is frankly a GQP desperate search to find a problem. Itís frankly pathetic.
Why do you think it is pathetic to think the person handing out the food or beverage might want to say something political to the recipient.
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Old 5th April 2021, 01:12 PM   #247
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If "Basic human decency and minimal standards" is political then sure....

But again "apolitical" is just one of those things... I don't know how it is supposed to work in a post-facts world.
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Old 5th April 2021, 02:27 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And regardless, the voting groups are trained, specifically, to outright refuse to state any political position, and they're handing out water/snacks/seating to *everyone*. Much like how the folks that sat at lunch counters were trained to not react to *anything* the angry crowd, or the police would do.

They wear shirts that mention their group, generic pants/skirts/shorts, ensure the snacks are identifiable as "Poland Spring" or "Rice Crispy Treat" or whatever, with no mention of anything on the ballot at any level, and so forth.
But as Joe Morgue points out, these days truth is partisan, and so, now, is anything that repudiates ruthless voter intimidation and suppression. To give out even unlabeled water in an unlabeled cup, or a wrapperless cookie on a paper plate, is by its very definition opposition to conservative policy.

ABout the only way to get around that would be to say you thought it was poisoned.
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Old 5th April 2021, 02:46 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why do you think it is pathetic to think the person handing out the food or beverage might want to say something political to the recipient.
For the record when we did it here in WA a few years back when lines developed at City Hall (these are people who didn't get a mail-in ballot; I think one of the voting machines broke) we made an effort to not say anything political and to not ask people in line who they were voting for. We just didn't want people in line to give up. And some had kids in tow so the snacks really helped.

We were advised at some point that we couldn't hand out food and water unless we stayed out of City Hall. The campaign lawyers advised the campaign we were working for.

For me it sure beat calling people via the phone bank asking people if they had voted yet.

It's a manageable thing, stay 150 feet away from the door I believe is what the new law said. Let the GOP hang themselves on the stupidity of their thinly veiled voter suppression law.

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Old 5th April 2021, 02:55 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why do you think it is pathetic to think the person handing out the food or beverage might want to say something political to the recipient.
What I think is that it is pathetic to fear this is some kind of issue to be concerned about.

Perhaps pathetic isn't the word. Perhaps 'Evil' is the word since the whole long-lines situation is entirely artificially developed by the GQP in their constant efforts to hinder voting by anyone not voting for them.

The QAnon party has made a horrid situation and now their enablers are making excuses for why they have to stop it when people try to mitigate the problem.

Pathetic.
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Old 5th April 2021, 03:20 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wonder if we all even agree that it's probably a bad idea to offer material incentives to go out and vote.
Nope, nope we can't. Giving incentives to people to get out and vote is a good idea, the more people that can be convinced to take part in voting the better the result is because you hear from more of the population. Heck in Australia the incentive to get out and vote is that you can be fined for not doing so.

So, no, giving incentives, material or otherwise, to get people out and voting is not a bad thing.

What would be a bad thing would be for those incentives to be provided on a Partisan basis. Allowing the giving out of bottles of water with "Vote Purple" on them would be a bad idea. Allowing non-partisan groups to give out bottles that have "Thanks for voting" on them isn't.

Of course, if the Republicans are worried that the Democrats would try to use this to get people to change their vote then the answer is to get out and help as well. That way the effort can be bi-partisan. Heck even better, make it a thing on the State Level with the food and drink being supplied by a Non-Partisan State-run Get-out-the-vote organisation, that means no-one can claim that there is any party interference. Could even make the drink offered peach tea.
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Old 5th April 2021, 04:20 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Nope, nope we can't. Giving incentives to people to get out and vote is a good idea, the more people that can be convinced to take part in voting the better the result is because you hear from more of the population. Heck in Australia the incentive to get out and vote is that you can be fined for not doing so.

So, no, giving incentives, material or otherwise, to get people out and voting is not a bad thing.

What would be a bad thing would be for those incentives to be provided on a Partisan basis. Allowing the giving out of bottles of water with "Vote Purple" on them would be a bad idea. Allowing non-partisan groups to give out bottles that have "Thanks for voting" on them isn't.

Of course, if the Republicans are worried that the Democrats would try to use this to get people to change their vote then the answer is to get out and help as well. That way the effort can be bi-partisan. Heck even better, make it a thing on the State Level with the food and drink being supplied by a Non-Partisan State-run Get-out-the-vote organisation, that means no-one can claim that there is any party interference. Could even make the drink offered peach tea.
To be a little bit fair, I do think it would be at least questionable to pay people to vote. If you called voters at home and said "I'll give you $X if you vote" would be at least a little suspicious. But this is so emphatically not what is in question here that to suggest it is seems obviously obtuse. Who the hell gets in a line at the polls because they might get a cup of water some time that day? I mean, really, how stupid does stupid have to get before it's too stupid for words?

We are talking here about people being encouraged in a very small way for not giving up something they have already, obviously and despite manifest inconvenience, undertaken to do.
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Old 5th April 2021, 05:09 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why do you think it is pathetic to think the person handing out the food or beverage might want to say something political to the recipient.
I think we are talking about Republicans in line trying to troll the water bearers into saying something political and then accusing them of not being non-partisan.
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Old 5th April 2021, 05:20 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
To be a little bit fair, I do think it would be at least questionable to pay people to vote. If you called voters at home and said "I'll give you $X if you vote" would be at least a little suspicious.
If it was the State doing it, "Come and vote and have a $50 voucher good at any shop in Georgia!", I wouldn't have a problem with it.

It'd be a little different if it was a rando offering money I agree, but a bottle of water of drink and some food is hardly able to be used as a bribe.

Quote:
But this is so emphatically not what is in question here that to suggest it is seems obviously obtuse. Who the hell gets in a line at the polls because they might get a cup of water some time that day? I mean, really, how stupid does stupid have to get before it's too stupid for words?

We are talking here about people being encouraged in a very small way for not giving up something they have already, obviously and despite manifest inconvenience, undertaken to do.
agreed.
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Old 5th April 2021, 06:47 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here in Oregon we have convenient drive up drop off ballot boxes at many sites. We don't even have to get out of our car. We've been voting exclusively by mail since 1998:
Well, yeah, in Oregon.

It totally wouldn't work anywhere else because Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation: "Does it make sense?" If Chewbacca lives on Endor, it can't possibly work.

Except in Washington, where they've also been doing it that way for a while now.




Oh, and Colorado.







Er, and Utah, apparently.
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:10 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
If it was the State doing it, "Come and vote and have a $50 voucher good at any shop in Georgia!", I wouldn't have a problem with it.

It'd be a little different if it was a rando offering money I agree, but a bottle of water of drink and some food is hardly able to be used as a bribe.
This is a slippery slope solution in search of a problem.

Paying someone to vote for a candidate is bad. So we have to outlaw that.

Paying someone just to vote isn't necessarily bad if it is non-partisan. But people could abuse that, so we have to outlaw that.

Giving someone a bottle of water or a slice of pizza is so minor that it won't influence anyone. But then there are questions of value of gifts and people could abuse that. So we have to outlaw that.

Groups giving people water who are simply at or near voting lines without any condition that they vote doesn't violate that law. But it could maybe possibly potentially might perhaps conceivably cause some very minor problems. So we have to outlaw that.

Not that any such problems have actually happened.

This is like 7 Kevin Bacons away from solving any actual problem. And the actual problem is that voters shouldn't need someone to give them food or drink while they are standing in line for hours to vote because they shouldn't have to be standing in line for hours to vote. Which can be solved by increasing absentee/mail voting, drop boxes, making voting easier, increasing early voting sites, and providing enough workers and tables and space and machines to eliminate the lines. Which this bill doesn't so, and in many respects will only make long voting lines worse.

If you don't want people giving people standing in line food and drink, first fix the problem with the lines.
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Old 5th April 2021, 09:25 PM   #257
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Resource the bloody polling stations so nobody waits these ******* ridiculous times and the problem of sustenance vanishes. Worlds greatest democracy.
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Old 5th April 2021, 11:00 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
If you don't want people giving people standing in line food and drink, first fix the problem with the lines.
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Resource the bloody polling stations so nobody waits these ******* ridiculous times and the problem of sustenance vanishes. Worlds greatest democracy.
Of course you are assuming that the long lines are an indication that something is broken. They aren't, they are a sign that things are working as intended. For these Republicans, the long lines aren't a bug, they are a feature.
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Old 5th April 2021, 11:45 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Of course you are assuming that the long lines are an indication that something is broken. They aren't, they are a sign that things are working as intended. For these Republicans, the long lines aren't a bug, they are a feature.
Yes, not just a feature, it's primary functionality.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:53 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Redcar And Cleveland, our council area, has a population of 136,000. A mix of industrial urban, small market towns and rural. We have 68 polling stations.

Our little town has 6 for a pop of 17,000 Open from 7 am to 10 at night.
For the last election my constituency had fifteen locations ('Polling Places', all schools, all closed for the day [a moot point as it was a Saturday]) with a total of 74 'Polling Stations', i.e. actual spaces where your name was checked off the register (basically a table), for about 53 thousand eligible voters. Each voter is assigned a alphanumeric code (on the polling card posted to them) and goes to the appropriate space for that number. Queuing is basically unknown.
Polling places are open from 7AM to 10PM. It is illegal to display or distribute campaign material, or canvass in any manner, within 50 metres of a polling station from 6.30AM until 10.30PM.
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Old 6th April 2021, 03:53 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wonder if we all even agree that it's probably a bad idea to offer material incentives to go out and vote.
Completely disagree. Yes, it's a bad idea to offer incentives to vote for a particular candidate but incentives to vote in general is a very good idea.

Especially if that incentive is "someone will offer you water while you stand in this very long line".
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:13 AM   #262
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Watching this from the outside it is absolutely mindblowing the lengths some politicians in the US will go to to limit voter participation.

In my little part of the world everyone agrees that voter participation is a good thing and that we need as many people voting as possible. In general elections we are regularly clocking 85+%. Last election around we landed at 84.5% - the lowest in a decade. There is a discussion going on why it was so low and what to do about it.

It is seen as a democratic problem that there are eligible voters not able to vote and that around 10% of the adult population is not eligible to vote. There is not a single politician wanting to reduce peoples accessibility to vote. Quite the contrary.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:25 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
And Republicans are predictably having a hissy fit over that (The Hill via MSN)-

I think it's that "economically harmful" that is the real rub here. The GOP is fine with people speechifying against their needless bill, one that, by the governor's own admission, has nothing to do with "the integrity of our elections"; and they aren't worried about what the voters may say, since rigging against that is, after all, the design of the bill- but let someone with an effective voice have a meaningful say, and now Major League Baseball is "socialists and their sympathizers."

**** you, Republicans- you don't get to raise a storm and then cry like babies when you get swept up in your own wind.
Those same Republicans are the first to threaten boycotts against any company that stops discriminating against LGBT employees.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:34 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Resource the bloody polling stations so nobody waits these ******* ridiculous times and the problem of sustenance vanishes. Worlds greatest democracy.
Yes, India does it well. Despite the attempts to suppress voters there.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:34 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
Completely disagree. Yes, it's a bad idea to offer incentives to vote for a particular candidate but incentives to vote in general is a very good idea.

Especially if that incentive is "someone will offer you water while you stand in this very long line".
What about a disincentive to not vote? Several countries fine those who fail to vote.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:57 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Yep. The GOP uncorked that bottle themselves and let the genie out- "corporations are people too!" with free-speech and religious freedom rights (Hobby Lobby), and it apparently never occurred to Republicans that the corporations would ever turn on them, effectively using the same means to disagree with them that the GOP eagerly sought when they wanted their support, i.e., their money. "Corporations are people" until they say something the right doesn't want to hear, then they are "omg! woke socialists!" who should just STFU.
This.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I wonder if we all even agree that it's probably a bad idea to offer material incentives to go out and vote.
Giving free water to people who are already there to vote doesn't seem to really encourage them to vote, unless water represents Democrats.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:59 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Why do you think it is pathetic to think the person handing out the food or beverage might want to say something political to the recipient.
That person might also want to stab the person line. You never know, and if it's a bare possibility, then we should look into it seriously!
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Old 6th April 2021, 05:02 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Of course, if the Republicans are worried that the Democrats would try to use this to get people to change their vote then the answer is to get out and help as well.
Pfft! If people want to stave off starvation they should leave the line, eat at a restaurant and get in line again! That's the Republican way!

'Helping' is such a socialist thing to do!
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Old 6th April 2021, 05:59 AM   #269
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Gotta love the GOP. The merest whiff of likelihood that a person handing a bottle of water to someone in line to vote might say something political has them falling all over themselves to pass laws left and right to forestall that bare possibility; but suggest that it might, to forestall possible mass shootings, be worth a try to have reasonable gun control laws, like effective background checks without gun-show or private sales loopholes, and out come the fainting couches.

Maybe if someone suggested a law that voters standing in line be handed guns instead of water, the GOP would get on board with that.
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Last edited by turingtest; 6th April 2021 at 06:01 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 6th April 2021, 06:03 AM   #270
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I've got it.

"Vote for Democrats, get a free AR-15."

That should make a few Republican heads explode.
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Last edited by JoeMorgue; 6th April 2021 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 6th April 2021, 06:08 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've got.

"Vote for Democrats, get a free AR-15."

That should make a few Republican heads explode.
It's what the founding fathers would have wanted

Quote:
In 1811, Maryland passed the first campaign finance reform law ever, ď[prohibiting] candidates from purchasing alcohol for voters.Ē
https://vinepair.com/articles/histor...cohol-america/
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Old 6th April 2021, 06:24 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
What about a disincentive to not vote? Several countries fine those who fail to vote.
Yea, I don't know about that one. I think it is better to work towards people voting because it's good for their country and democracy rather than not "not voting" because they want to avoid a personal fine but it comes down to what signal you want to send.

Also it takes away the ability to NOT vote (as opposed to blank voting) which can be a thing in it self.

I see it as a duty to myself to participate in the democracy I live in. Not all people feel that way and as I see it they have the right to not let their voice be heard.
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Old 6th April 2021, 07:09 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Resource the bloody polling stations so nobody waits these ******* ridiculous times and the problem of sustenance vanishes. Worlds greatest democracy.
But haven't you heard the call of the govenor as a modern day Paul Revere? "The negroes are voting, the negroes are voting"
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Old 6th April 2021, 10:34 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
'No voting on Sundays because it would offend God' according to MS Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith. I guess she thinks everyone is a Christian. What next? Is she going to demand all stores close down on Sundays in order to "keep the Sabbath Holy"? Or is it only voting on Sundays that makes offends God? Her "objection" is so ridiculously and obviously just another excuse in the effort to pass Jim Crow 2 voter suppression laws targeted at Black voters who have a tradition of voting on Sundays after attending church services.
Late, I know, but I really don't understand how elected officials are even able to say things like this. What part of separation of church and state don't they get? Now of course, we all know that some laws are passed for mostly religious reasons (such as many abortion restrictions, for example), but this is blatant. She is blatantly saying that her reasoning for supporting a policy is religious. I don't understand what she is thinking.

Separation of church and state was the whole point of this country (sort of, in a way, you know what I mean, don't "actuallyyyyyy" me to death).
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Old 6th April 2021, 10:59 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Late, I know, but I really don't understand how elected officials are even able to say things like this. What part of separation of church and state don't they get? Now of course, we all know that some laws are passed for mostly religious reasons (such as many abortion restrictions, for example), but this is blatant. She is blatantly saying that her reasoning for supporting a policy is religious. I don't understand what she is thinking.

Separation of church and state was the whole point of this country (sort of, in a way, you know what I mean, don't "actuallyyyyyy" me to death).
Oh, God, no...the only reason the Conservatives haven't turned this country into a theocracy is because they could never agree which sect of Protestantism would be officially adopted. The only Amendment they hold truly sacrosanct in the Second.
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Old 6th April 2021, 12:21 PM   #276
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McConnell calls the actions of MLB, Coke, andDelta in opposition of Georgia voting law ‘stupid.’
He says "My warning to corporate America is to stay out of politics,"

He added "I’m not talking about political contributions"


In other words "I am against all of these things, except for the things that benefit me."

Classic dirtbag.
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Old 6th April 2021, 02:07 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, God, no...the only reason the Conservatives haven't turned this country into a theocracy is because they could never agree which sect of Protestantism would be officially adopted. The only Amendment they hold truly sacrosanct in the Second.
Robert Heinlein said the only thing that kept the US from being a theocracy is that the fundemantlists fought so much among themselves.
BTW Heinlein's novel about a theocracy in America "If This Goes On" (aka "Revolt in 2100") is still worth reading.
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Old 6th April 2021, 03:44 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
McConnell calls the actions of MLB, Coke, andDelta in opposition of Georgia voting law Ďstupid.í
He says "My warning to corporate America is to stay out of politics,"

He added "Iím not talking about political contributions"


In other words "I am against all of these things, except for the things that benefit me."

Classic dirtbag.
More like he realized what he was saying after he said it and tried to mitigate the damage.
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:18 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Late, I know, but I really don't understand how elected officials are even able to say things like this. What part of separation of church and state don't they get? Now of course, we all know that some laws are passed for mostly religious reasons (such as many abortion restrictions, for example), but this is blatant. She is blatantly saying that her reasoning for supporting a policy is religious. I don't understand what she is thinking.

Separation of church and state was the whole point of this country (sort of, in a way, you know what I mean, don't "actuallyyyyyy" me to death).
The part where they ever have to pay any consequences for saying things like this. Remember: It's only illegal if you get caught and have to pay. And if the cost is only monetary, it's a "cost of doing business", which makes it tax deductible, right?
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Old 6th April 2021, 04:57 PM   #280
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Republicans angry to find out that people's money can't be gerrymandered.
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