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Old 24th March 2021, 12:27 PM   #41
Captain_Swoop
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I suppose the helmsman could have been paid by someone to 'spin the wheel' at an opportune moment.
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Old 24th March 2021, 12:27 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Not unless the perpetrators have a weather-control machine.

Or a whole lot of tabletop fans.
Sounds like HAARP in action.
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Old 24th March 2021, 12:39 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Because it obviously isn't anything other than an accident.

If you wanted to block the canal, sink something. That's what the Egyptians did and it took 8 years to clear.
Egypt was already openly at war when they mined the canal.

If you want to cause disruptions without being obviously to blame, and avoid immediately being accused of an act of war, making look like an accident is probably the best way to go. All you have to do is get to the pilot of a suitable ship, and convince him to just... let... it... happen.

---

Partisan CT Fun Time! Look at the timing: If this had happened on Trump's watch, he'd be all like, I have proof that Iran was behind this, and I've already ordered some drone strikes in retaliation. But give Biden some plausible deniability, and you get all the benefits of disruption, and none of the risks that the US will actually do anything about it.
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Old 24th March 2021, 01:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Sounds like HAARP in action.
Nah - Cobra and their danged Weather Dominator again. Somebody, maybe a team of heroes, need to do something about them.
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Old 24th March 2021, 01:28 PM   #45
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Instead of offloading cargo, couldn't they just pump out the fuel? How much fuel is onboard?
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Old 24th March 2021, 01:46 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Instead of offloading cargo, couldn't they just pump out the fuel? How much fuel is onboard?
Good question. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it already. I bet the experts working on the problem did think of it, though.
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Old 24th March 2021, 01:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Egypt was already openly at war when they mined the canal.

If you want to cause disruptions without being obviously to blame, and avoid immediately being accused of an act of war, making look like an accident is probably the best way to go. All you have to do is get to the pilot of a suitable ship, and convince him to just... let... it... happen.

---

Partisan CT Fun Time! Look at the timing: If this had happened on Trump's watch, he'd be all like, I have proof that Iran was behind this, and I've already ordered some drone strikes in retaliation. But give Biden some plausible deniability, and you get all the benefits of disruption, and none of the risks that the US will actually do anything about it.
So you are going with the helmsman or pilot was paid to run the ship aground?
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:22 PM   #48
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It is almost too bad that Trump is not around for this crisis.

I expect that he would declare something like 'Let's send in the giant SHEILD Airship and Ironman and get that covfefe ship lifted out of the way'.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So you are going with the helmsman or pilot was paid to run the ship aground?
Nope! I'm going against your premise doing it intentionally requires being obviously responsible for it.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:28 PM   #50
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But if it is deliberate then the guy at the helm has to be the one that did it.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:32 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So you are going with the helmsman or pilot was paid to run the ship aground?
Well...I dunno. Vessel Finder made a video of Ever Given's movements before entering the section where it stuck. Seems a bit wayward, almost like it had a technical issue of some sort.

Make of it what you will. It's a two minute youtube from Vessel Finder...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5IKbYcLgQA

Note: the little grey beastie that appears to rendezvous with Ever Given is the Pilot boarding.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:37 PM   #52
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It isn't doing anything other than hold it's position until it gets a Pilot and clearance to proceed in to the Canal.

Those that are making it lout to be strange are looking for sensation.
If you put a track on any of the other ships around it waiting for Pilots or to go in to the canal they would be making similar courses if they weren't anchored.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
But if it is deliberate then the guy at the helm has to be the one that did it.
I totally agree.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:42 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Just flush it out by pouring more water in, duh. Empty whatever ocean that is, should do the trick, especially if you do it fast enough. Alternatively, simply convert that section of the canal into a lake by replacing some of the land with water. A third method I have devised, but it's slightly impractical so I won't mention it.
I recommend using a small atomic device to create a larger like.

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Any indication that this wasn't an accident?

sinking ships in strategic locations to cripple global trade is a strategy that has been articulated by more than one malignant power.
There was initial speculation, certainly in one of our client's internal feeds, but it seems unlikely. There are better choke points and the ship hasn't actually sunk.

I saw a scenario that suggested three ships, and a few dozen mines, could block the canals for a year for minimal expenditure. The '67 war efforts took seven years to remediate.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:47 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Well...I dunno. Vessel Finder made a video of Ever Given's movements before entering the section where it stuck. Seems a bit wayward, almost like it had a technical issue of some sort.
The reports I've seen indicate that a power blackout and loss of control while in the canal immediately preceded the grounding.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well it's been well a year and a half since the MV Golden Ray sunk and capsized, blocking the entrance to the harbor in nearby Brunswick, GA and it's still there so.....
Fifty ships per day, at ~150k to 750k each in transit fees is a degree of motivation.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'd like to suggest the 'Up' solution, involving helium baloons.

Ninja'd.


Great idea.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:58 PM   #58
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UPDATE 12:00 hours local time: According to information from the Suez Canal Authority, the grounded vessel has been partially refloated and is now alongside the Canal bank. Convoys and traffic are expected to resume as soon as vessel is towed to another position.

source: GAC Hot Port News
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:13 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The reports I've seen indicate that a power blackout and loss of control while in the canal immediately preceded the grounding.
I have seen such claims, but there is nothing in confirmation beyond a claim made by somebody without evidence.
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:19 PM   #60
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Nice! I wonder how much was lightening the ship, and how much was digging away the ground beneath it.

ETA: Also, I guess maybe they do have a play book of just this scenario.

Last edited by theprestige; 24th March 2021 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:31 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nice! I wonder how much was lightening the ship, and how much was digging away the ground beneath it.

ETA: Also, I guess maybe they do have a play book of just this scenario.
Probably a little digging and a whole lot of brute force. The later damage report will be interesting.
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:51 PM   #62
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The last position from about 10 hours ago showed some pretty large craft alongside (labeled 'special craft and tugboat'). Looks to me that it is probably some digging and some heavy pushing at the aft.
(With another to stop it from veering to the other side?)

What are these? Surely not your average tugboat!

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Old 24th March 2021, 03:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Nice! I wonder how much was lightening the ship, and how much was digging away the ground beneath it.

ETA: Also, I guess maybe they do have a play book of just this scenario.

I know this one! They just had to let some air out of the tires.
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Old 24th March 2021, 04:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
The last position from about 10 hours ago showed some pretty large craft alongside (labeled 'special craft and tugboat'). Looks to me that it is probably some digging and some heavy pushing at the aft.
(With another to stop it from veering to the other side?)

What are these? Surely not your average tugboat!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5347bf55_w.jpg
They are just Tugs.

As reported by my Marine Traffic tracking App they they included

'Svitzer Port Said 2' 32m 492 tons
'Abd Elhamed Yousif' 36m 500 tons
'Mosaheb 1' 36.6m 598 tons

The others are using satellite reporting so I can't get their names or details, just time of last report and speed.
I don't pay the extra for the satellite reporting as I don't need it.

They were all fairly standard tugs from what I could see.
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Old 24th March 2021, 04:35 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
They are just Tugs.

As reported by my Marine Traffic tracking App they they included

'Svitzer Port Said 2' 32m 492 tons
'Abd Elhamed Yousif' 36m 500 tons
'Mosaheb 1' 36.6m 598 tons

The others are using satellite reporting so I can't get their names or details, just time of last report and speed.
I don't pay the extra for the satellite reporting as I don't need it.

They were all fairly standard tugs from what I could see.
Thanks!... I found a video of them taken earlier today and they are not as large as the icons made it seem (compared to some smaller vessels in the canal.)
Looks like normal tugs (for a large ship anyway).
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Old 24th March 2021, 04:38 PM   #66
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As Tugs go they aren't tiny by any means but they will look small against a 200,000 ton container ship stacked to the limit.
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Old 24th March 2021, 05:22 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
As Tugs go they aren't tiny by any means but they will look small against a 200,000 ton container ship stacked to the limit.
Sure, in general use, tugs can throw down a lot of power for their size. I heard that some danish or dutch super tugs are headed that way. True? I have no idea nor any confirmation beyond a random report of no provenance.

Bottom line, we will only get the facts later. All else is specultaion
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Old 24th March 2021, 05:45 PM   #68
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I don't see what use a 'super tug' would be in such confined waters.
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Old 24th March 2021, 06:20 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
But if it is deliberate then the guy at the helm has to be the one that did it.

Would the ship computers or perhaps some sort of black box show whether someone cranked the wheel and drove it aground? Seems like it would be easy to find out. I doubt it happened.
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Old 24th March 2021, 06:38 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
But if it is deliberate then the guy at the helm has to be the one that did it.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I totally agree.
I take it back. If it is deliberate, it doesn't necessarily have to be the guy at the helm. It could be someone else sabotaging the controls (by causing a power outage in critical subsystems, for example).
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Old 24th March 2021, 06:42 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I don't see what use a 'super tug' would be in such confined waters.
Moving super cargo ships out of the way more quickly than smaller tugs?
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Old 24th March 2021, 07:09 PM   #72
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Don't any of the other ships have a tow chain? Look in the trunk with the jumper cables.
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Old 24th March 2021, 07:39 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I don't see what use a 'super tug' would be in such confined waters.
I'm absolutely certain there is a "that's what she said" joke in there but I don't know enough about shipping to bring it home.
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Old 24th March 2021, 07:58 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I don't see what use a 'super tug' would be in such confined waters.
Nor I. I don't recall where I surfed it, but the idea was that the super tugs could apply more power than the tugs on site and thus release the freighter because...I have no idea what reasons. My reaction was "that would never work" and promptly tossed it in the bit bucket. I likely should have saved it, alas, I did not on the grounds that it was rather unlikely and unworthy of attention
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Old 24th March 2021, 08:27 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Moving super cargo ships out of the way more quickly than smaller tugs?
In the canal? a number of smaller tugs would be better suited. There is only so much effort you can put in to one tow point before something breaks, usually a cable or bollard.
Better to divide between a number of towns.
Direct pushing will probably be able to apply more effort.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 24th March 2021 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 24th March 2021, 08:51 PM   #76
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Old 24th March 2021, 09:46 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
In the canal? a number of smaller tugs would be better suited. There is only so much effort you can put in to one tow point before something breaks, usually a cable or bollard.
Better to divide between a number of towns.
Direct pushing will probably be able to apply more effort.
A lot of small tugs in confined waters seems like an unnecessary hazard.

Besides, there they are, in the canal, doing the thing. I don't think it's plausible that the people who manifestly did have a playbook for this scenario, and ungrounded a 200,000 ton cargo ship in less than 24 hours, are being stupid about the kinds of tugs to use for this kind of work.
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Old 24th March 2021, 11:40 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Probably a little digging and a whole lot of brute force. The later damage report will be interesting.
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:10 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A lot of small tugs in confined waters seems like an unnecessary hazard.

Besides, there they are, in the canal, doing the thing. I don't think it's plausible that the people who manifestly did have a playbook for this scenario, and ungrounded a 200,000 ton cargo ship in less than 24 hours, are being stupid about the kinds of tugs to use for this kind of work.
You need a number of cables so you need sa number of tugs. ALso several tugs can push at the same time applying more force than a single boat.

Tugs areused to working together in close proximity to push and pull ships around.


Anyway, there wasn't any need for a 'supertug' whatever one is supposed to be.

I think it is referring to the big 'ocean' tugs are used in different conditions where a big ship is needed for the conditions that can be encountered.

Hull size is important if you are expecting to operate in a winter storm in the open ocean.

Their actual pulling power is limited to the strength of the tow cables just the same as for smaller tugs.


They will have used the ships own winches and maybe even the capstans and anchor chains, they can exert a huge force.
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:13 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Hull size is important if you are expecting to operate in a winter storm in the open ocean.
The first time I read this post, I thought that "Hull size" was a class of tug (larger than Grimsby size, smaller than Felixstowe size).
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