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Old 26th March 2021, 08:36 AM   #161
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Have we sent Ross down to yell "Pivot.... Pivot.... PIVOT.... PIIIIIIVOOOOOOT!" at it?
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Old 26th March 2021, 08:40 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
They could reduce their travel time by chopping a new canal running east-to-west through Africa between Tanzania and Angola. If they equipped the first ship with sufficiently powerful lasers it could burn the path through for the following ships. It could be done in a matter of days! Really, I'm embarrassed for everybody else that nobody's thought of this before.
Uhm.
Why not just point that first ship at the stranded ship and just blast your way through it?
Maybe there some of the containers contain ilicit and or flammable cargo, so the fireworks will be spectacular.
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Old 26th March 2021, 08:53 AM   #163
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Harbor Freight sells some pretty nice bottle jacks. May need a few two by sixes in that sand.
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Old 26th March 2021, 09:37 AM   #164
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I was wondering who covers all the cost and liability. Was a sandstorm and wind some "Act of God" that is exempt? Seems it is not. The ships owners will pay- or rather their insurance.

What all are they (potentially) liable for? Here is a brief list snipped from a Reuters article:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN2BG31A

-The cost of the salvage operation
-Losses to perishable goods or missed delivery deadlines for cargo on board the ship and on other ships stuck in the Canal
-SCA loss of revenue for passage fees and services.
-There could also be claims for damage to the canal.

Quote:
The ship’s owner, Japanese firm Shoei Kisen KK, and its insurers could face claims from the SCA (Suez Canal Authority) for loss of revenue and from other ships whose passage has been disrupted.

Container ships of this size are likely insured for hull and machinery damage of $100-140 million, insurance sources say. The ship was insured in the Japanese market
This explains why a Japanese team is reported to be going along with the Dutch experts. Japan is paying.

I wonder how they will calculate the supply chain disruption costs. Claims could go way beyond just the goods and delivery. (ie, oil tankers miss delivery, refinery loses sales and must do overtime to meet production, refinery customers' sales get affected, the next 2 or 3 deliveries delayed as they catch up, late penalties built into contracts down the line, etc.....things like that)

*UK P&I Club said it was the protection and indemnity insurer for the Ever Given. This segment of insurance covers ships against pollution and injury claims. (so far no injuries or spillage reported, so a big pheeew for them)

Last edited by Sherkeu; 26th March 2021 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 26th March 2021, 09:38 AM   #165
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Egypt is still going to be eating a huge amount of lost revenue even if they get reimbursed for things like damage to the canal and more direct costs.
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Old 26th March 2021, 09:43 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Egypt is still going to be eating a huge amount of lost revenue even if they get reimbursed for things like damage to the canal and more direct costs.

True...I forgot to add that one to the list (though it is in the quote). Will add.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 26th March 2021 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 26th March 2021, 09:45 AM   #167
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I'm assuming that shipping companies and other "customers" of the canal have no legal means to sue Egypt for lost revenue, but maritime law is complicated so who knows.
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Old 26th March 2021, 11:16 AM   #168
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Suez Canal blocked by stuck ship.

Drain the blocked section and replace the water with mercury. The higher density will provide more buoyancy and lift the ship free.

Simples!


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Old 26th March 2021, 11:17 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Drain the blocked section and replace the water with mercury. The higher density will provide more buoyancy and lift the ship free.

Simples!


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perfect!
And much more environment friendly then splitting the African continent in two by way of giant lasers.
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Old 26th March 2021, 11:18 AM   #170
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"Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!" - Q
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Old 26th March 2021, 12:02 PM   #171
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I guess it is predictable for this sort of story, but there are already copy cats.
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Old 26th March 2021, 12:18 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I guess it is predictable for this sort of story, but there are already copy cats.
This guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Golden_Ray) has been blocking the port of Brunswick, GA for over a year.
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Old 26th March 2021, 12:29 PM   #173
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Todays update (GAC)

Quote:
Tugboat teams and heavy machinery are still battling to move the grounded vessel in the Suez Canal.

The Suez Canal Authority (SCA) is using dredgers and more than 8 powerful tugs and are being assisted by other local authorities in the operation. There is still no confirmed progress reported.

Canal transits remain suspended and there is currently no indication of when they will resume.

The Head of the SCA, Lieutenant-General Ossama Rabei, has said that no efforts will be spared to ensure the restoration of navigation and serve the movement of global trade.

All vessels arriving from the south (from the Red Sea) are requested to drop anchor out of port limits, as the Suez area is fully congested.

The next attempt to float the vessel will be on the evening high tide.
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Old 26th March 2021, 12:31 PM   #174
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This is gonna get fun real quick for the people on the ships already in the canal.

You're pretty restricted in the canal as far as water usage and waste disposal.

Like, not to put too fine a point on it, "if it's brown flush it down, if it's yellow let it mellow" was the rule even on Navy ships so the CHT systems don't get overused.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:06 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
One of the things they need to think about is the ship hull twisting, hogging or sagging as it comes free. If it's damaged and the hull compromised it could sink or capsize.
Then they would be in trouble
It looks like they have things under control.



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Old 26th March 2021, 01:10 PM   #176
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"Help me step ship, I'm stuck"
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:12 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Golden_Ray) has been blocking the port of Brunswick, GA for over a year.
Another problem easily solved with a Holbrook; give BoJo a call and I'm sure he'll be glad to help the colonials out in the spirit of CANZUK.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:22 PM   #178
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This is kind of cool.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


@2:10

Ship's so tall it's flying above the clouds.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:34 PM   #179
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Here we go again...

New York Post

Suez Canal ship crisis may unleash worldwide toilet paper shortage

https://trib.al/DvZCD8R
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:42 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This'll end well.



Suez canal blockage: tell us your ideas for how the Ever Given can be refloated



There's a form and everything. I'm sure you have some good ideas.
A form? Change it's name to Boaty McBoatface.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:44 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here we go again...

New York Post

Suez Canal ship crisis may unleash worldwide toilet paper shortage

https://trib.al/DvZCD8R
I also imagine gas prices will go up any day now, if they haven't already.
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:47 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here we go again...

New York Post

Suez Canal ship crisis may unleash worldwide toilet paper shortage

https://trib.al/DvZCD8R

Let the panic buying and hoarding begin....
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Old 26th March 2021, 01:53 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

Let the panic buying and hoarding begin....
Will there be accusations of TP nationalism?
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Old 26th March 2021, 02:49 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Ulf Nereng View Post
Will there be accusations of TP nationalism?
Almost certainly...
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Old 26th March 2021, 03:23 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This is gonna get fun real quick for the people on the ships already in the canal.

You're pretty restricted in the canal as far as water usage and waste disposal.

Like, not to put too fine a point on it, "if it's brown flush it down, if it's yellow let it mellow" was the rule even on Navy ships so the CHT systems don't get overused.
Haha, that is the mantra when CA gets into drought mode.

I think the crews are fine up to now. Not all that many people in a cargo crew- maybe a few dozen. A cruise ship with thousands on board would be a different animal! *We can probably thank Covid for their absence

Speaking of animals, I did read a report that their are 8 ships stuck in the canal carrying live animals.
They will be in deep **** soon!
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Old 26th March 2021, 03:38 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Here we go again...

New York Post

Suez Canal ship crisis may unleash worldwide toilet paper shortage

https://trib.al/DvZCD8R
Probably not. Ship tracking websites have shown that a large portion of shipping has already started routing around South Africa. The trips are a couple of days longer but I don't think shortages are a realistic possibility.

Then again, the New York Post actually made a breaking news tweet that the Ever Given "had drawn a large penis in the ocean before transiting the canal", when very apparently it had just been swinging at anchor as a couple of storms passed.
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Old 26th March 2021, 03:59 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Probably not. Ship tracking websites have shown that a large portion of shipping has already started routing around South Africa. The trips are a couple of days longer but I don't think shortages are a realistic possibility.

Then again, the New York Post actually made a breaking news tweet that the Ever Given "had drawn a large penis in the ocean before transiting the canal", when very apparently it had just been swinging at anchor as a couple of storms passed.
Besides just making up crap, they might have mentioned to their stateside readers that the paper mills in the US get 'virgin pulp' right here on the NA continent (thanks Canada!). None of it is stuck in Egypt. Now people are going to clear the shelves for no reason...again!

I read that rerouting around the cape costs about $500K additional for a large cargo ship/tanker. But the fee for the canal is almost the same so not such a bad idea when the wait time is iffy at best. (fee: $250-$500k depending on tonnage, or $150 per pass. for cruises)

*btw, per my calculations on near $6B a year in revenue for SCA, the canal is losing $16mil per day.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:05 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Haha, that is the mantra when CA gets into drought mode.

I think the crews are fine up to now. Not all that many people in a cargo crew- maybe a few dozen. A cruise ship with thousands on board would be a different animal! *We can probably thank Covid for their absence

Speaking of animals, I did read a report that their are 8 ships stuck in the canal carrying live animals.
They will be in deep **** soon!
Everything north of the blockage can turn around and get back out, they are all at the Great Bitter Lake. There are two parallel waterways to the north of the lake.
To the south there is only the original cut so they run batches of ships in convoy 'one way' at a time.

There were only two ships south of the blockage.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:14 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Besides just making up crap, they might have mentioned to their stateside readers that the paper mills in the US get 'virgin pulp' right here on the NA continent (thanks Canada!). None of it is stuck in Egypt. Now people are going to clear the shelves for no reason...again!

<snip>

I'd be surprised if they have much storage space left for TP after the last go-round.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:38 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Egyptian government is saying the ship will be freed by the end of the weekend, but I wonder how much of that is just pacification because there doesn't seem to be an actual plan of any kind.


Rookie and compliance-lite Egyptian Government not being able to cobble together a cogent plan, you say? I'm shocked!!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if - probably since not that long after the incident - the freight shipping operators (either singly or as one or more consortia) have been in an increasingly tense *situation* with the Egyptian Government. After all, Egypt owns the canal, operates the canal, and has jurisdiction over the canal. In addition, the Egyptian military hold enormous sway over anything to do with the canal, because of its huge geographical/operational significance re invasions of Egypt.

So I can well envisage a situation, right now, where the Egyptian Government is saying "Don't worry! We're in charge! We'll have it all sorted by Monday at the latest!" But the shipping operators are watching everything that's happening (and not happening), and watching their losses mount steeply hour-by-hour.

Somehow I very much doubt that Egypt will hand over the operation to anyone else.... until they're effectively forced to do so by the international community (especially the US, which still heavily subsidises the Egyptian economy in the name of Middle East stability). So I reckon that people should possibly strap themselves in for another 4-6 days of inaction and incompetence before the Egypt Govt - and the Egyptian military - have control of the operation prised from their firm grasp.
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:54 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Probably not. Ship tracking websites have shown that a large portion of shipping has already started routing around South Africa. The trips are a couple of days longer but I don't think shortages are a realistic possibility.
LOL. I pointed out that it may be possible to re-route around the cape at the penalty of an 8 day delay. Captain Swoop pointed out that it actually would be longer. A "couple of days"? Sure if one has access to star wars tech. Otherwise, not so much.

Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Then again, the New York Post actually made a breaking news tweet that the Ever Given "had drawn a large penis in the ocean before transiting the canal", when very apparently it had just been swinging at anchor as a couple of storms passed.
So the gutter press made a claim, you think it is bogus, so do I.

Now what?
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:58 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Everything north of the blockage can turn around and get back out, they are all at the Great Bitter Lake. There are two parallel waterways to the north of the lake.
To the south there is only the original cut so they run batches of ships in convoy 'one way' at a time.

There were only two ships south of the blockage.

Yep.

However, it's obviously the case that for all of those ships which were mid-journey and expecting to use the canal, they are now suddenly faced with the significant additional time and cost - whether they choose to wait things out at either end of the blockage, or whether they choose to take the long Cape of Food Hope route instead. And for any ships which were carrying livestock or perishable items, the additional repercussions might be very significant too.

Any ships choosing to switch to the round-Africa route will also almost certainly need to put into port somewhere en route to take on additional fuel. This will incur additional delay.

Also, whether the affected ships sit it out near the canal until it's clear or whether they take the longer alternative route, there will now be serious logistical knock-on effects. These same ships will have been booked to collect new cargoes on specific dates, all of which will very likely now need to be rearranged - and that's nowhere near as easy as it might sound. Plus the receivers of the goods which are currently being carried by these ships will now have to rearrange the delivery logistics. And many ports around the world will face associated logistical difficulties.


I keep going back to thinking: how can this have been allowed to happen? After all, we're all now seeing the very serious repercussions of it having happened. Any competent risk assessment should, long ago, have implemented mechanisms to minimise to near-zero the chance of this sort of occurrence, plus it should have put in place effective provisions to fix things if it did somehow happen.

And it's hardly as if there were freak and extraordinary conditions behind this incident: we're told that there were pretty strong winds - but I've lived in the Middle East and I've crossed the Suez Canal many times, and I've experienced more than one occasion where the wind is strong enough to blow hats off and make it noticeably harder to walk into the wind. The geography of the Gulf of Suez, the Med, and the Sinai means that there are very often pretty strong winds in this area.
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Old 26th March 2021, 06:08 PM   #193
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Ships have got bigger so effectively the canal has got narrower.
The biggest ships should have tugs to assist and the canal should be doubled for the remainder of it's length
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:33 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ships have got bigger so effectively the canal has got narrower.
The biggest ships should have tugs to assist and the canal should be doubled for the remainder of it's length
The first super large container vessel had 2 tugs. I imagine this one did too. The SCA requires them (and charges for it). They decide the bollard pull needed for the ship.

So what did the tugs do when things started going sideways?
Are two tugs just no match for something like this?

Quote:
Escorting the ships transiting the Suez Canal is effectuated according to the Suez Canal net tonnage and not the summer dead weight. The Article will read as follows:

Loaded vessels less than 70,000 Suez Canal net tonnage will be escorted by one tug if for technical reasons SCA find it necessary or when the vessels draught is more than 47 feet.

Loaded vessels from 70,000 Suez Canal net tonnage to 90,000 tons will be escorted by one tug.

Loaded vessels over 90,000 Suez Canal net tonnage will be escorted by two tugs.

Vessels in ballast over 130,000 Suez Canal net tonnage will be escorted by one tug.

LPG and LNG over 25,000 Suez Canal net tonnage (except GF) will be escorted by one tug.

Vessels in ballast with beam over 218 ft up to 233 ft will be escorting by one tug.

Vessels in ballast with beam over 233 ft will be escorted by two tugs.

Towed scrapped vessels in ballast 80,000 Suez Canal net tonnage and over will be escorted by one tug.
http://www.globalshippingservices-eg.com/?page_id=1447

Last edited by Sherkeu; 26th March 2021 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:55 PM   #195
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Escorted doesn't mean the tug is 'in charge'
If the ship started to swing then the tug would take time to react and in the narrow canal it wouldn't be able to stop it.

If the tug is 'in charge' then the ship goes where the tug pulls.
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Old 26th March 2021, 08:52 PM   #196
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I wonder what happens after the canal is cleared. It will probably let through far more ships than it normally does. These ships would then head to their ports, which will then have more ships than they normally do. Can they cope?
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Old 26th March 2021, 09:58 PM   #197
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Youtuber Blacolirio (Juan Browne) gives his thoughts. He's a commercial airline pilot from Nevada City California and has fantastic videos on aviation accidents, California wildfires, and the Oroville Dam breach of 2017.
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Old 27th March 2021, 03:48 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Escorted doesn't mean the tug is 'in charge'
If the ship started to swing then the tug would take time to react and in the narrow canal it wouldn't be able to stop it.

If the tug is 'in charge' then the ship goes where the tug pulls.
Inertia. 200,000 tons goes wherever it wants. Best not to get in it's way.
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Old 27th March 2021, 04:04 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Inertia. 200,000 tons goes wherever it wants. Best not to get in it's way.
Exactly. With the length of the ship by the time the helmsman realises the ship is moving and reacts the turn would already be well under way.

Any correction would be fighting the wind that has caused the deviation.

It will have bow and stern thrusters to help with docking but they take time to activate and start making a difference.

In a waterway narrower than the length of the ship those bows would be aground before any correction started to have an effect and once they touch the swing would be beyond control.


If there had been a tug 'in charge' it would have noticed the change in pull on the tow. Modern tugs have sophisticated systems that monitor these things and can correct automatically. An experienced skipper would have been able to correct any veering before it got out of hand and also would have been in contact with the pilot on the ship.

Having said all that I can think of a number of reasons against actively towing ships through the canal.
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Old 27th March 2021, 04:15 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Haha, that is the mantra when CA gets into drought mode.

I think the crews are fine up to now. Not all that many people in a cargo crew- maybe a few dozen. A cruise ship with thousands on board would be a different animal! *We can probably thank Covid for their absence

Speaking of animals, I did read a report that their are 8 ships stuck in the canal carrying live animals.
They will be in deep **** soon!
More than twenty, mostly from Spain and Romania. Spain has suspended live exports to the Gulf.
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