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Old 30th March 2021, 08:13 AM   #81
Thermal
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The fact that there will be complaints no matter what doesn't mean there are not legit complaints to be had though.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Look at it this way.

A state gets hit by a Hurricane. We just pay people money to help them. We don't go "BUT I DIDN'T CAUSE THE HURRICANE" (Well most of us who aren't Conservative trolls or sea-lioning fauxtistics do.)

I think the whole framing it as "Reperations" is just asking for trouble but the African American Community getting the assistance it needs to recover from the disaster it had to go through is a no-brainer.
This really is the correct framework. "Reparations" are foolish, from inception to execution. Repairing of devastated communities from generations of systemic and social racism is a social necessity that shouldn't be arguable.

The biggest physical advantages of growing up white, IMO, were a solid basic education to be socially functional, and a neighborhood where survival was not a daily consideration for children. For young adults and grown-ups, real opportunities for work and other self improvement. Incentivising business to relocate jobs with meaningful advancement opportunities near hard-hit areas, and provide financing and guidance for local entrepreneurs.

This is real-time damage control. Shouldn't matter who gets a finger pointed at them or who has a hand out. Just helping your neighbor to deal with the mess others created should not be so high a bar to get motivated about.
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Old 30th March 2021, 08:17 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The fact that there will be complaints no matter what doesn't mean there are not legit complaints to be had though.
But most of the complaints have compelling answers. Won't matter. There is no framing that will alleviate this, at all. Much like the effects won't even be entirely felt by the generation that will eventually get this done, their children/grandchildren will take the brunt of the impact of the monetary policy required for it to be done. This won't stop some from expecting a thank you as if doing this was some huge sacrifice on their part.
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Old 30th March 2021, 08:21 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This really is the correct framework. "Reparations" are foolish, from inception to execution. Repairing of devastated communities from generations of systemic and social racism is a social necessity that shouldn't be arguable.
Pass a law revoking the government's immunity from lawsuits on this racist history and then we don't have to have a conversation on if it is foolish or not. The common law courts can fight it out.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:03 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Pass a law revoking the government's immunity from lawsuits on this racist history and then we don't have to have a conversation on if it is foolish or not. The common law courts can fight it out.
Let anyone who so desires sue under our current laws, which I believe has been done. Vaya con dios. Ends the legal debate.

Reparations paid to others have, IIRC, been voluntary by the government. So what we seem to be kicking around is "should we cut checks today for other people's actions against other people in the past". I'd say no. But I heartily agree that the affected communities need damage control now, and it's our collective responsibility to kick in for our fellow Americans.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:41 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Let anyone who so desires sue under our current laws, which I believe has been done. Vaya con dios. Ends the legal debate.
You can only use the government (even if it is an open and shut victory) if they let you.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:56 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You can only use the government (even if it is an open and shut victory) if they let you.
So, resolved from the legal standpoint? Unless you think representative legislation is non-binding?
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:00 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So, resolved from the legal standpoint? Unless you think representative legislation is non-binding?
Simply pass legislation allowing suits in this case and let the common law system look into it.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:04 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Look at it this way.

A state gets hit by a Hurricane. We just pay people money to help them. We don't go "BUT I DIDN'T CAUSE THE HURRICANE" (Well most of us who aren't Conservative trolls or sea-lioning fauxtistics do.)

I think the whole framing it as "Reperations" is just asking for trouble but the African American Community getting the assistance it needs to recover from the disaster it had to go through is a no-brainer.
Oh, my sweet summer child.

This is, in effect, how programs like SNAP and other "welfare" have been set up. And when they were popularized, it was by photos of deeply impoverished white people - so-called "white trash" and "hillbillies".

Once right-wingers started showing black people getting benefits? Boom. "Welfare Queens" "Young bucks" buying fancy steaks. Cut them! More means testing! Make sure they aren't spending their paltry benefits on drugs! Black people were ruined by welfare programs, they destroyed the black family (please ignore that the vast majority of government programs have disproportionally benefitted white Americans, and that the out-of-wedlock birth percentage is also increasing among white families - and that this is more because of changes in overall birthrates than anything else)

In other words, when we say "people will complain no matter what", we mean "they'll scream and howl about it, and vote against it even when they benefit even more than nonwhite families do."

Which is why, if it's going to be to repair the damage done by the past...400 years or so, then just do it, or don't. Don't bother worrying about the messaging - hell, the set asides for nonwhite farmers *this year* to compensate for the overwhelmingly disproportional givaways *under Dolt 45* have been met with rage by the likes of Tucker Carlson and online idiot Steve Crowder (whose response is, in part, in the first minute of the video linked here).

Last edited by Mumbles; 30th March 2021 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:04 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Simply pass legislation allowing suits in this case and let the common law system look into it.
"Change the law and then the law will be different" is hardly a satisfactory legal conclusion to the thread topic.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:08 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
"Change the law and then the law will be different" is hardly a satisfactory legal conclusion to the thread topic.
For a country that uses civil law, certainly. But with a common law system, permitting law suits will allow for a whole set of new laws set up by precedents. The legislature is essentially permitting the system to run rather than saying it can't.

ETA: I'm just talking about sovereign immunity. If, after removing sovereign immunity, courts immediately arrive at a different blanket immunity....then I'm satisfied.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 30th March 2021 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:59 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Holy crap. I mean, I know this crap exists, but christ that is cringe.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:21 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Oh, my sweet summer child.

This is, in effect, how programs like SNAP and other "welfare" have been set up. And when they were popularized, it was by photos of deeply impoverished white people - so-called "white trash" and "hillbillies".

Once right-wingers started showing black people getting benefits? Boom. "Welfare Queens" "Young bucks" buying fancy steaks. Cut them! More means testing! Make sure they aren't spending their paltry benefits on drugs! Black people were ruined by welfare programs, they destroyed the black family (please ignore that the vast majority of government programs have disproportionally benefitted white Americans, and that the out-of-wedlock birth percentage is also increasing among white families - and that this is more because of changes in overall birthrates than anything else)

In other words, when we say "people will complain no matter what", we mean "they'll scream and howl about it, and vote against it even when they benefit even more than nonwhite families do."

Which is why, if it's going to be to repair the damage done by the past...400 years or so, then just do it, or don't. Don't bother worrying about the messaging - hell, the set asides for nonwhite farmers *this year* to compensate for the overwhelmingly disproportional givaways *under Dolt 45* have been met with rage by the likes of Tucker Carlson and online idiot Steve Crowder (whose response is, in part, in the first minute of the video linked here).
Fine you've convinced me, it's not worthy trying to do it.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:55 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I've skimmed through the thread but my 2 cents.
There are two or three good arguments against:
1. It would amount to a get out of jail free card for the US generally. "Hey this thing/person/institution is racist" "You got your check, why are you complaining!"
2. The logistics are impossible. Who gets what and how much, who pays and how much? Black descendants of slaves who were red lined out of low interest loans and didn't get the GI Bill they earned. That's easy. Black or white or whatever recent immigrant, they have to pay too? Is it pro-rated based on how long you've been here?
3. It will breed more racial animosity.

The most powerful argument for, in my opinion is that the government caused redlining, didn't give out the various low interest loans equally, essentially excluding blacks. They didn't even give blacks the GI Bill they earned. This is far more recent and likely far more responsible for the disparities in wealth and income than the legacy of slavery.

Personally, I think doing wealth and income based solutions would be better. It alleviates some of the racial animus that would result from straight up reparations, wouldn't let the rest of society of wash there hands of persisting racism and would more likely help the folks that actually need it.
I would like to add a reason#4: why just black Americans?

And that's not because I object in principle, but it's the philosopher in me that's asking for a moral argument to be internally consistent.

Basically, as my First Nations friends are right to remind me: these countries are built on an Indian burial ground. That's a lot of real estate to write cheques for.
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Old 30th March 2021, 11:56 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
And that's not because I object in principle, but it's the philosopher in me that's asking for a moral argument to be internally consistent.
"All Reparations Matter!"
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Old 30th March 2021, 02:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I would like to add a reason#4: why just black Americans?

And that's not because I object in principle, but it's the philosopher in me that's asking for a moral argument to be internally consistent.

Basically, as my First Nations friends are right to remind me: these countries are built on an Indian burial ground. That's a lot of real estate to write cheques for.
It's a fair question and probably an easier one to answer, since how the US treated the Native Americans was often not even legal when they did it.

But, it's probably a separate question.
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Old 30th March 2021, 02:00 PM   #96
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Certainly, the cost of the reparations should only be passed on to the descendants of former slave owners however.
And, since the practice of slavery had the effect of depressing the wages and opportunities available to non slaveholders of the time, they too should be eligible for recompense.
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Old 30th March 2021, 06:32 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Certainly, the cost of the reparations should only be passed on to the descendants of former slave owners however.
And, since the practice of slavery had the effect of depressing the wages and opportunities available to non slaveholders of the time, they too should be eligible for recompense.
So the nation that made slavery legal has no responsibility? It's not like slavery was done in a vacuum. Also, slavery is only part of the issue. The systemic racism and discrimination since the 14th Amendment was passed also needs to be paid for.
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Old 30th March 2021, 06:40 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I would like to add a reason#4: why just black Americans?

And that's not because I object in principle, but it's the philosopher in me that's asking for a moral argument to be internally consistent.

Basically, as my First Nations friends are right to remind me: these countries are built on an Indian burial ground. That's a lot of real estate to write cheques for.
Then we'll send some to India
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Old 30th March 2021, 06:54 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I would like to add a reason#4: why just black Americans?

And that's not because I object in principle, but it's the philosopher in me that's asking for a moral argument to be internally consistent.

Basically, as my First Nations friends are right to remind me: these countries are built on an Indian burial ground. That's a lot of real estate to write cheques for.
I actually believe its imperative that if reparations are to be paid, it HAS to be just black Americans. Not because other peoples don't have issues. But because otherwise, it's not reparations. It is something else entirely.
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Old 30th March 2021, 07:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I actually believe its imperative that if reparations are to be paid, it HAS to be just black Americans. Not because other peoples don't have issues. But because otherwise, it's not reparations. It is something else entirely.
Say what?? How would similar payments to Native Americans not be reparations?
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Old 30th March 2021, 08:13 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by BazBear View Post
Say what?? How would similar payments to Native Americans not be reparations?
Fair enough. I was thinking they were talking about doing something for the poor in general.
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Old 30th March 2021, 08:22 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I even lived in a house that included a covenant against selling it to someone of color and that wasn't the Deep South, that was liberal Seattle.
I own a piece of land that says my slave quarters have to be of a certain size if I own any. Also says the primary residence has to be worth at least $2K.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:02 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I own a piece of land that says my slave quarters have to be of a certain size if I own any. Also says the primary residence has to be worth at least $2K.
Where is that?
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:31 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Fair enough. I was thinking they were talking about doing something for the poor in general.
I think improving public education in the US and building up the middle class in general might be a good start for helping to unwind systemic suppression of Black Americans specifically. It would not be, by any means, the only thing that would need to be done, but it might be a presentation, for lack of a better term, that "fiscally responsible" Republicans might be able to swallow. At least, the ones who remember when Republicans tried to be fiscally responsible.
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Old 30th March 2021, 09:45 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I think improving public education in the US and building up the middle class in general might be a good start for helping to unwind systemic suppression of Black Americans specifically. It would not be, by any means, the only thing that would need to be done, but it might be a presentation, for lack of a better term, that "fiscally responsible" Republicans might be able to swallow. At least, the ones who remember when Republicans tried to be fiscally responsible.
I agree, That said, I believe specifically reparations "should" be paid to people of color whether we do it or not.
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Old 30th March 2021, 10:44 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Fine you've convinced me, it's not worthy trying to do it.
The point isn't "don't do it", it's "If you're going to, don't worry about what magic phrase will avoid blowback". There isn't one. Just be ready for the blowback.
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Old 31st March 2021, 01:38 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We're getting into semantics a lot here but we can't just pretend like how this is being presented doesn't matter.

"You have to give me money because 100 years ago your ancestor (who is dead) did something bad to my ancestor (who is also dead)" is stupid. We can't word it that way just because guilty white people want to have a hair shirt they can be seen wearing.

You want to spend the next 50 years of this not happening so all the usual suspect can stall out forever at that "oH sO i GueSS I cAN suE da VIKings for PillAGING mY AnsCESTORS VillAGE 1,000 YAERS AGO?" stage?

"There's a group of Americans who are disenfranchised and disadvantage in a quantifiable way because of they were treated in the past. Let's help them." Is both better and more accurate.

Again unless being absolved of some sort of racial original sin is the point.
It is not "your ancestor (who is dead) did something bad to my ancestor", it was a whole ethnicity of people over about seven generations, probably the direct/indirect cause of social disadvantage and race discrimination today.

If your boss didn't pay you for working your 35-hour week for, say, forty years, you would expect to receive the back pay, or if you popped your clogs, you'd expect it to go to your next of kin instead. Let's say this is US$40K pa, then you would be owed US$1,600,000, less tax plus any pension contribution you were owed plus refund of your employer-related healthcare costs.

You wouldn't expect some random guy on the internet to refuse it on your behalf.
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Old 31st March 2021, 01:45 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"All Reparations Matter!"
Tell us how the Vikings affected you? Because they didn't. You just made that up.
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Old 1st April 2021, 07:00 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Tell us how the Vikings affected you? Because they didn't. You just made that up.
He was being tongue in cheek playing off All Lives Matter.
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Old 6th April 2021, 12:10 PM   #110
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What do you guys think about wealth equalizing reparations that are done on some quantile basis?

In other words, give the top 1% or 10% of black people enough money that their median net worth is equal to the median net worth of white people of the top 1% or 10%. And then do the same continuing down the percentiles and deciles.

I think there could be substantial benefits to such a system over an equal payment to all recipients.

The first is that equalizing black people as a group to some median net worth level (as could be done with an equal payment to all recipients) will still leave black people underrepresented amongst the elites. If payments are targeted on some quantile basis, it will equalize black people with their respective peers across all of American society. Do we want a world where black people are overrepresented at state colleges and underrepresented at the Ivy Leage, or where they're represented proportionally at all levels? This would help us get the latter.

The second is that the non-recipient population will be less aggrieved because their peer recipients will be receiving a more proportional amount to the peer non-recipient's income. The racial wealth gap between white people and black people in the bottom quintile is tiny, so black people in those groups would receive little. That will be much easier for poor white people to stomach. Middle class black people would receive much more, but it'll not look like as much to their peer white people, who themselves have more. Upper class black people would receive large sums, but again it'll not appear too excessive to their peer white people because they're already quite rich.

Finally, such an approach would make the final cost relatively simple and objective. We don't have to try to itemize every way America made black people suffer in the past. We don't have to draw lines for whether the reparations are for this wrong or that. We just choose as a society correct the full disparity in net wealth as of today. End of story.

Working with really rough household income gap data, it seems like the price would be a bit less than $10 Trillion if every black person were included as a recipient.
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Old 6th April 2021, 01:45 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
What do you guys think about wealth equalizing reparations that are done on some quantile basis?

In other words, give the top 1% or 10% of black people enough money that their median net worth is equal to the median net worth of white people of the top 1% or 10%. And then do the same continuing down the percentiles and deciles.

I think there could be substantial benefits to such a system over an equal payment to all recipients.

The first is that equalizing black people as a group to some median net worth level (as could be done with an equal payment to all recipients) will still leave black people underrepresented amongst the elites. If payments are targeted on some quantile basis, it will equalize black people with their respective peers across all of American society. Do we want a world where black people are overrepresented at state colleges and underrepresented at the Ivy Leage, or where they're represented proportionally at all levels? This would help us get the latter.

The second is that the non-recipient population will be less aggrieved because their peer recipients will be receiving a more proportional amount to the peer non-recipient's income. The racial wealth gap between white people and black people in the bottom quintile is tiny, so black people in those groups would receive little. That will be much easier for poor white people to stomach. Middle class black people would receive much more, but it'll not look like as much to their peer white people, who themselves have more. Upper class black people would receive large sums, but again it'll not appear too excessive to their peer white people because they're already quite rich.

Finally, such an approach would make the final cost relatively simple and objective. We don't have to try to itemize every way America made black people suffer in the past. We don't have to draw lines for whether the reparations are for this wrong or that. We just choose as a society correct the full disparity in net wealth as of today. End of story.

Working with really rough household income gap data, it seems like the price would be a bit less than $10 Trillion if every black person were included as a recipient.
Really? You think regressive reparations would be good thing? I think the biggest problem in America is the wealth and income division. The second is systemic racism.

So no, I don't think it is a good idea.
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Old 6th April 2021, 06:42 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Really? You think regressive reparations would be good thing? I think the biggest problem in America is the wealth and income division. The second is systemic racism.

So no, I don't think it is a good idea.
Naturally if your prioritize wealth inequality above racial inequality, this wouldn't seem like a great use of resources.

All the same, even with that prioritization, how much racial equality would there be if every descendent of slavery simply got a large cash payment? The gap between the median wealth of the 99% and the 1% would decrease a bit, but you'd still have an elite that is disproportionately white.

For better or worse, plans that have pricetags in the trillions are likely to be one shot affairs. I do not think a plan that slightly decreases wealth inequality while leaving the elite disproportionately white seems like a good use of that one shot.
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Old 6th April 2021, 06:48 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
Naturally if your prioritize wealth inequality above racial inequality, this wouldn't seem like a great use of resources.

All the same, even with that prioritization, how much racial equality would there be if every descendent of slavery simply got a large cash payment? The gap between the median wealth of the 99% and the 1% would decrease a bit, but you'd still have an elite that is disproportionately white.

For better or worse, plans that have pricetags in the trillions are likely to be one shot affairs. I do not think a plan that slightly decreases wealth inequality while leaving the elite disproportionately white seems like a good use of that one shot.
This is going to be difficult if not impossible to sell under the best of circumstances. Imagine attempting to sell to middle class White Americans paying hundreds of millions, even billions to already wealthy people of color.
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Old 6th April 2021, 10:02 PM   #114
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But equal payment reparations are already an incredibly hard sell, and I think quantile-equalization reparations lends itself to a special sales pitch.

I'm imagining an ad campaign where a working class white guy and a working class black guy are shaking hands, and the white guy says "My share was eight hundred dollars", similar situation with two wealthy looking women, and the white woman says "My share was thirty thousand dollars" and then she yawns, and so on with various pairs. Maybe there's a pair of homeless dudes, and the white guy says "My share is zero" and they both look sad.

So there's about 6 non-black people in the US for every black person. So, on average, non-black people would each be paying about one sixth their net worth. That's not outrageously bad. It doesn't have to look like "millions to rich people of color", as it can be easily framed as a small fraction of net worth from one neighbor to another, to right the wrongs of the past.

Looking at some really rough figures on the wealth gap, it looks like I'd personally pay something like $15k. That doesn't strike me as outrageous, because it is scaled to where I am in the dogpile of life.
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Old 6th April 2021, 11:55 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
But equal payment reparations are already an incredibly hard sell, and I think quantile-equalization reparations lends itself to a special sales pitch.

I'm imagining an ad campaign where a working class white guy and a working class black guy are shaking hands, and the white guy says "My share was eight hundred dollars", similar situation with two wealthy looking women, and the white woman says "My share was thirty thousand dollars" and then she yawns, and so on with various pairs. Maybe there's a pair of homeless dudes, and the white guy says "My share is zero" and they both look sad.

So there's about 6 non-black people in the US for every black person. So, on average, non-black people would each be paying about one sixth their net worth. That's not outrageously bad. It doesn't have to look like "millions to rich people of color", as it can be easily framed as a small fraction of net worth from one neighbor to another, to right the wrongs of the past.

Looking at some really rough figures on the wealth gap, it looks like I'd personally pay something like $15k. That doesn't strike me as outrageous, because it is scaled to where I am in the dogpile of life.

Your mistake is to go by skin colour. The reparations should be intended for those with a slave ancestry. Recent arrivals should not qualify and there would also be the indentured southern Whites, the victims of bonded labour wherein they had to work seven years for one master for free before they could claim a wage and freedom to move on. These would be those transported as criminals or political dissidents, such as the Levellers or King Charles II supporters. Can't just look at someone and be able to tell.
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Old 7th April 2021, 12:42 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your mistake is to go by skin colour. The reparations should be intended for those with a slave ancestry. Recent arrivals should not qualify and there would also be the indentured southern Whites, the victims of bonded labour wherein they had to work seven years for one master for free before they could claim a wage and freedom to move on. These would be those transported as criminals or political dissidents, such as the Levellers or King Charles II supporters. Can't just look at someone and be able to tell.
Go by that large amount of qualifiers and practically everyone in this country would qualify, including me and my DNA test says I'm 100% European white.

What if your great-great-great granddaddy was also the white slave owner? Would that guilt in your ancestry cancel out the reparation or just reduce it?
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Old 7th April 2021, 01:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your mistake is to go by skin colour. The reparations should be intended for those with a slave ancestry. Recent arrivals should not qualify and there would also be the indentured southern Whites, the victims of bonded labour wherein they had to work seven years for one master for free before they could claim a wage and freedom to move on. These would be those transported as criminals or political dissidents, such as the Levellers or King Charles II supporters. Can't just look at someone and be able to tell.
I understand this sentiment, but it both makes the whole affair more complicated (who qualifies?) and also leaves open the potential for further reparations for other past wrongs against black people. Is there to be a round of reparations for slavery, then one for Jim crow, and then one for red-lining? I think the potential for that would reasonable put off many non-recipients.

It's a far more marketable proposition to lump together all the wrongs done to black people, correct the wealth disparity, and say tomorrow we start from equal ground.
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Old 7th April 2021, 02:10 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
I understand this sentiment, but it both makes the whole affair more complicated (who qualifies?) and also leaves open the potential for further reparations for other past wrongs against black people. Is there to be a round of reparations for slavery, then one for Jim crow, and then one for red-lining? I think the potential for that would reasonable put off many non-recipients.

It's a far more marketable proposition to lump together all the wrongs done to black people, correct the wealth disparity, and say tomorrow we start from equal ground.
So what happens to my brother in law? His father was African American and his mother is Caucasian and by the way has lighter skin than I do. He has no obvious features that would make you believe he is a descendant of slaves.
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Old 7th April 2021, 02:38 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So what happens to my brother in law? His father was African American and his mother is Caucasian and by the way has lighter skin than I do. He has no obvious features that would make you believe he is a descendant of slaves.

If your skin is so light that you've never been considered black then you've probably never been directly discriminated against either. Gonna have to break out the color scale - no cash for you!

Handing out cash won't turn racists into loving people so what's the point? You're still a black person living in white America. I'd take the cash and leave.

Really really stupid idea. What was the number offered...20 trillion? (Of course I'm not taking this seriously).

Hey, maybe pay white people to be nicer instead? Giving 20 trillion to black people sure ain't gonna solve that problem and it will probably make it even worse.

Great plan!
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Old 7th April 2021, 03:03 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So what happens to my brother in law? His father was African American and his mother is Caucasian and by the way has lighter skin than I do. He has no obvious features that would make you believe he is a descendant of slaves.
What does he answer for the census? Seems easy enough to use that.

People could try to game this if it it's announced shortly before a census, but would they bother? The wealth gap in the bottom quintile is a few thousand. Is that worth risking a federal crime? The gap for the top decile is a few hundred thousand; again not enough to risk prosecution for a federal crime for someone who already has a good comfortable life.
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