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Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM   #2441
JeanTate
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Out of context.

The comet is negative with respect to the solar wind, this is what have ALLWAYS stated.

What you asked was what how LARGE that difference was, which I responded “The potential difference is anything you want ...” EXCEPT ZERO.

Otherwise the comet has stopped discharging.

Ergo, the larger the potential difference the greater the observed effects.

And in mainstream you call that an increased “outgassing” rate!

Are we clear here JT, Ziggy?
I see.

Thanks for the clarification, Sol88.

I keep forgetting that I need to be so much more careful to spell things out for you, in detail, than I would for someone who clearly understands basic physics (or even basic mathematics).
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Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM   #2442
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Did I?
Yes, you did.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
  1. OK. However, I think you need to quantify "a different potential" and to better define "the surrounding plasma". After all, 10-99 V could be such a difference, as could 1099 V. And "surrounding" could be as far away as merely 10-6m, or 106m.
The potential difference is anything you want except zero and the plasma surrounding the comet starts at the surface and ends at the heliopause.
"Anything" includes both positive and negative.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Anywhoo, I’ve always said the comet is at a lower potential than the solar wind it is currently moving thru!

How hard is it, ziggurat?
Well, not always. But even with the sign established, that doesn't suffice. What are the bounds on the voltage for this model? What voltage would be too small? What voltage would be too big? You don't have a clue. But that should be the first thing to figure out in any serious electric comet model.
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Last edited by Ziggurat; Yesterday at 03:20 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM   #2443
JeanTate
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
<snip>

And in mainstream you call that an increased “outgassing” rate!

<snip>
Sol88, please stay on topic.

This thread is about The ELECTRIC COMET Theory (and SAFIRE).
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Old Yesterday, 03:27 PM   #2444
Reality Check
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Thumbs down A lie that observations are problems solved by insanely ignorant delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Dust arriving in bursts and negatively charged. Hot and cold electrons. Supra thermal electrons. Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet.
26 April 2018: A lie that observations are problems solved by insanely ignorant delusions.

26 April 2018: Repeats his lies about a tusenfem post supporting his comet delusions.
That post is that there are no double layers in the paper.
26 April 2018: Multiple "electron beam or "jets"" lies about a tusenfem post.

26 April 2018: A idiotic lie that these coma observations affect "sublimating snowballs".
Comet coma have "sublimating snowballs" as a source of their ions and electrons. Dust arriving in bursts was expected. Dust being negatively charged has valid scientific explanations. Supra thermal electrons seem not unexpected.

"Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet" is actually idiotic. Anything that is heated by an external source like comet nuclei by the Sun will have energy stored in their interior !

Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 03:28 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:35 PM   #2445
Reality Check
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
The ELECTRIC COMET model is as follows:
1) comets are rocky objects
2) they have minimal to no "ice/s"
3) they seek electrical equilibrium with the surrounding plasma
4) they are discharging in the solar wind as they approach the inner Solar System
5) dust is electrostatically machined from the surface during this discharge
6) the charged dust so machined forms highly collimated, bursting jets
7) neutrals go along for the ride (not sure about this?)
8) the jets form the comet's coma
0) Comets and asteroids have been blasted from Earth by electric discharges during multiple Venus flybys in recent times to be recorded in myths. Thus comets are rocky bodies like asteroids. The name of the source planet varies according to which Thunderbolts prophet we look at, e.g. it may be Mars.
N.B. This is not the recent lie of "consolidated dust".

1a) They have minimal to no dust (their electric discharge machining produces no dust).

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 03:38 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:45 PM   #2446
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, you did.



"Anything" includes both positive and negative.



Well, not always. But even with the sign established, that doesn't suffice. What are the bounds on the voltage for this model? What voltage would be too small? What voltage would be too big? You don't have a clue. But that should be the first thing to figure out in any serious electric comet model.
Now it’s been clarified you can settle down again.

In the ELECTRIC COMET the nucleus has always been at a lower potential than the surrounding plasma.

So if you were the solar wind the comets nucleus would appear negative.

And the voltage range...well like i DID say anything from weakly discharging(outgassing) all the way up to electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus.

And everything in between.

That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude.
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Last edited by Sol88; Yesterday at 03:47 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
0) Comets and asteroids have been blasted from Earth by electric discharges during multiple Venus flybys in recent times to be recorded in myths. Thus comets are rocky bodies like asteroids. The name of the source planet varies according to which Thunderbolts prophet we look at, e.g. it may be Mars.
N.B. This is not the recent lie of "consolidated dust".

1a) They have minimal to no dust (their electric discharge machining produces no dust).
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"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Give up. Your idiocy knows no bounds. The electric comet woo is dead. R.I.P. [Jonesdave116]
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Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM   #2448
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Thanks Sol88.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Now it’s been clarified you can settle down again.

In the ELECTRIC COMET the nucleus has always been at a lower potential than the surrounding plasma.

So if you were the solar wind the comets nucleus would appear negative.

And the voltage range...well like i DID say anything from weakly discharging(outgassing) all the way up to electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus.

And everything in between.

That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude.
I know you’re going to comment in some detail on my earlier post, summarizing what I understood to be the ELECTRIC COMET theory. So the following may well be of only temporary value ...

“The heliopause” “surrounds” many solar system objects, in all directions... including one that goes from the Sun through a comet’s surface and to the heliopause, and one which goes in the opposite direction. The potential difference is negative for all?

What about comets (usual meaning, not any special meaning you/the ELECTRIC COMET theory gives the word) which travel from (or to) well beyond the heliopause (in any direction)?
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
And the voltage range...well like i DID say anything from weakly discharging(outgassing) all the way up to electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus.

And everything in between.

That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude.
WHICH two orders of magnitude? 1 volt to 100 volts? 100 volts to 10,000 volts? Something else? This doesn't specify within even two orders of magnitude.

The voltage is probably the most fundamental parameter your model requires, and you've got no clue whatsoever about what it should be.
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Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM   #2450
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
well if the electric sun peeps cannot agree on sol being an anode orca cathode, why expect more from solly?
Anode Orca is the name of my Great White cover band. Pre Station fire, of course. My post Station cover band is named Cathode Orca.

What?

Too soon?
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Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM   #2451
Sol88
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
WHICH two orders of magnitude? 1 volt to 100 volts? 100 volts to 10,000 volts? Something else? This doesn't specify within even two orders of magnitude.

The voltage is probably the most fundamental parameter your model requires, and you've got no clue whatsoever about what it should be.
Sorry, that was an Aussie colloquialism.

You'd probebly now it better as several.

As in several orders of magnitude.

We can take a lead from H.Laakso and he's paper Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley

or we could head back into M.Volwerk's papers on the currents around comets.

Where would you like to start Ziggurat
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"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

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Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM   #2452
JeanTate
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sorry, that was an Aussie colloquialism.

You'd probebly now it better as several.

As in several orders of magnitude.
The take-away is that we need to ask you to clarify everything you post, because it may be an Aussie colloquialism that none of us recognize?

Quote:

We can take a lead from H.Laakso and he's paper Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley

or we could head back into M.Volwerk's papers on the currents around comets.

Where would you like to start Ziggurat
Despite what RC posted, you are the only person regularly posting to this thread who knows what the ELECTRIC COMET Theory is.

So, what are those several orders of magnitude, per the ELECTRIC COMET Theory?
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Old Yesterday, 05:58 PM   #2453
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sorry, that was an Aussie colloquialism.

You'd probebly now it better as several.

As in several orders of magnitude.

We can take a lead from H.Laakso and he's paper Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley

or we could head back into M.Volwerk's papers on the currents around comets.

Where would you like to start Ziggurat
It's your theory, Sol, not mine. You tell me. Give me some actual numbers.
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Old Yesterday, 06:19 PM   #2455
Reality Check
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Thumbs down A "That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude" is an Aussie colloquialism lie

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Sorry, that was an Aussie colloquialism.
26 April 2018: A "That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude" is an Aussie colloquialism lie.

That is standard English for probably 10 or 100 times.

That post gives yet another electric comet delusion of "electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus."
26 April 2018: A "electrostatically disrupting the nucleus" electric comet delusion.

In the real world we have Comet - Breakup and collisions.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 06:22 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM   #2456
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's your theory, Sol, not mine. You tell me. Give me some actual numbers.
At which point in time would you like?
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Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM   #2457
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
26 April 2018: A "That’s most probably an order or two of magnitude" is an Aussie colloquialism lie.

That is standard English for probably 10 or 100 times.

That post gives yet another electric comet delusion of "electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus."
26 April 2018: A "electrostatically disrupting the nucleus" electric comet delusion.

In the real world we have Comet - Breakup and collisions.
or we could use this, hey RC?

Electrostatic disruption of a charged conducting spheroid

You will notice the word "comet" is there just for you RC.

and before you cry me a river, the effect is scalable.
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"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

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Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM   #2458
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
At which point in time would you like?
I'll make it easy. You get to pick, as long as it's while the comet is active.
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Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM   #2459
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Thumbs down A lie that a paper is on his "electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus" delusion

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
26 April 2018: A lie that a paper is on his "electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus" delusion.
This is a paper about grains:
Quote:
Electrostatic disruption of elongated or chain-like parent grains following sudden charging to high electrostatic potentials was recently offered as a specific mechanism for a certain cometary phenomenon, namely the appearance of the so-called striae or pseudosynchronic bands observed in several comets.

A 1981 paper may not be valid 37 yars later. 19 citations in 37 years suggests not. On the other hand one citation is a recent one on 67P.

26 April 2018: An "the effect is scalable" lie (no scalable in the abstract).

Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 08:18 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 PM   #2460
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'll make it easy. You get to pick, as long as it's while the comet is active.
From H.Laakso paper, Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley I'd postulate 5 orders of magnitude as the range of potential difference involved in comets.

Though the variables involved would make a solid figure impossible.

In M.Volwerk's paper Current sheets in comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko’s coma we have,
Quote:
From the results by Raeder et al. [1987]
an effort was made by Israelevich et al. [1994] and Israelevich and Ershkovich [1994] to deduce the global magnetic structure and electric currents around comet 1P/Halley, where
they found currents up to tens of nA/m2.
and

Quote:
In order to check whether the estimated current densities are feasible, the MIP/LAP densities of 100s cm3 and an estimate for the electron velocity by IES of 100s km/s one can expect a possible maximum current density of several uA/m2

So one would ask how many m2 are involved in this estimate?
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Last edited by Sol88; Yesterday at 11:21 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:34 PM   #2461
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How many m2 are we talking here tusenfem? ball park would do.
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"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Give up. Your idiocy knows no bounds. The electric comet woo is dead. R.I.P. [Jonesdave116]
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 PM   #2462
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
26 April 2018: A lie that a paper is on his "electrostaticly disrupting the nucleus" delusion.
This is a paper about grains:



A 1981 paper may not be valid 37 yars later. 19 citations in 37 years suggests not. On the other hand one citation is a recent one on 67P.

26 April 2018: An "the effect is scalable" lie (no scalable in the abstract).

Sorry RC, it is hard is'nt!
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"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116]

"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Give up. Your idiocy knows no bounds. The electric comet woo is dead. R.I.P. [Jonesdave116]
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Old Today, 12:52 AM   #2463
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Quote:
The ELECTRIC COMET model is as follows:

1) comets are rocky objects

1a) the rock is consolidated dust (Rock or stone is a natural substance, a solid aggregate of one or more minerals or mineraloids.)
1b) the rock has a bulk density in the range 1.9±1.1×103kgm−3
1c) the dust has a size in the range 80to800µm (After being electrostatically machined off of the surface, otherwise it's "consolidated dust", Rock. see 1a)

2) comets have minimal to no "ice/s"

3) comets seek electrical equilibrium with the surrounding plasma

3a) the potential difference is anything you want except zero (up to 105 range)
3b) the plasma surrounding the comets starts at the comets' surfaces and ends at the heliopause
3c) comets themselves are negatively charged with respect to the local solar wind
3d) there are double layers at comets

4) comets are discharging in the solar wind as they approach the inner Solar System

5) dust is electrostatically machined from the comets' surfaces during this discharge

5a) the electrostatically machined dust is negatively charged (can also be positive, this is seen in the data as well. this dust will return to the nucleus)

6) the charged dust so machined forms highly collimated, bursting jets (The "jets" are as we observe)

7) neutrals go along for the ride

8) the jets form the comets' comas (Double layers form the different regions or boundaries in cometary coma)

My comment in red
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"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Give up. Your idiocy knows no bounds. The electric comet woo is dead. R.I.P. [Jonesdave116]
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