IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , Biden administration , Biden controversies , joe biden , Kamala Harris

Reply
Old 13th October 2021, 03:43 PM   #2481
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 24,062
Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
OMG!

Democracy can't work if only one party participates...
This is good news. Trump gave the Dems Georgia doing the same thing. Between 50,000 COVID-19 deaths at a 5-1 rate for Republicans and this, he could swing Florida blue. Same for the other swing states. To get healthy, Republicans need to see Trump's treason as a losing proposition.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 03:44 PM   #2482
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 24,062
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
LMAO I predict that MAGA voters will just pretend he never said that.
They didn't in the Georgia run off.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 05:05 PM   #2483
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 9,723
They saw the results last time, too. These aren't Democrats we're dealing with; they'll probably learn from their past results.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2021, 06:26 PM   #2484
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,002
I agree these are Trump voters, not conservatives or GOP voters.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 11:18 AM   #2485
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 8,299
*sigh*

Biden’s Federalist Society loaded Supreme Court commission proves to be a farce.

To poke at Senator Whitehouse's reply -

Quote:
Washington, DC – Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chair of the Senate Judiciary Courts Subcommittee, released the following statement regarding the interim report of the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States:

“This report is a disappointment to anyone who’d hoped for a hard-hitting effort to address the Supreme Court’s deep troubles. From this report, you would never know:

(a) that the last three Supreme Court vacancies were filled through the efforts of a private organization (the Federalist Society) receiving enormous contemporaneous anonymous donations;

(b) that anonymous individual checks as large as $17 million funded Supreme Court confirmation battle advertising, with no way to know what business those donors had before the Court;

(c) that orchestrated flotillas of anonymously-funded right-wing amici appear regularly before the Court, and achieve virtually perfect success with the Republican appointees;

(d) that a peculiar fast lane has emerged that rushes politically loaded cases to the Supreme Court through deliberate trial and appellate court losses;

(e) that intensely political partisan decisions have hinged on findings of fact that were not an appellate court’s ordinary province, that were not supported by a factual record, and that ultimately were demonstrably false;

(f) that ‘regulatory capture’ is not limited to administrative agencies but can infect courts as well;

(g) that as much as $400 million in anonymized money has been spent through an array of coordinated groups seemingly designed to capture the Supreme Court, a sum not usually spent without motive; and

(h) that in civil cases decided by a 5-4 partisan Supreme Court majority in which there was an evident Republican donor interest, the donor interest win record was an astonishing 80-0.”
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 12:08 PM   #2486
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,885
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
This is good news. Trump gave the Dems Georgia doing the same thing. Between 50,000 COVID-19 deaths at a 5-1 rate for Republicans and this, he could swing Florida blue. Same for the other swing states. To get healthy, Republicans need to see Trump's treason as a losing proposition.
They won't reason this out. Instead, they will continue to believe that they way to winning is by cheating before and after the election.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 07:18 PM   #2487
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 22,254
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
They won't reason this out. Instead, they will continue to believe that they way to winning is by cheating before and after the election.
It lost them at 'reason'.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:00 AM   #2488
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,494
Sen. Manchin determined to make Biden a one-term, lame duck president.

Quote:
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told the White House the child tax credit must include a firm work requirement and family income cap in the $60,000 range, people familiar with the matter tell Axios.

Why it matters: While Manchin’s demands would dramatically weaken one of President Biden’s signature programs to help working families, they also would reduce the package’s overall costs.
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1449866575964688394

In retrospect, Democrats probably botched the messaging of the Biden win, setting expectations too high. Despite the D by the names of some of the congressional members, the party does not have a workable majority in the legislature and will be unable to take meaningful action.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; Yesterday at 06:01 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:09 AM   #2489
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,002
I think Manchin's next election is going to look a lot more like a R primary than a general election. Either way, I think he's doing a lot more harm to himself than good for spending so much time making headlines for jamming up Biden's agenda
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:26 AM   #2490
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,219
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
....which wasn't the purpose of the commission to comment on? None of that alters the report' conclusions?
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM   #2491
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,219
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sen. Manchin determined to make Biden a one-term, lame duck president.



https://twitter.com/axios/status/1449866575964688394

In retrospect, Democrats probably botched the messaging of the Biden win, setting expectations too high. Despite the D by the names of some of the congressional members, the party does not have a workable majority in the legislature and will be unable to take meaningful action.
two thoughts


1) How much does this save? We are still talking the only savings being the time value of money over less than a year? That sounds cheap.

2) Considering liberals found it acceptable under years in power to not advance the child tax credit, that would make a 60k limit pretty liberal. I don't know why people are getting so worked up about not getting a permanent version of something they didn't have a year ago. It is like getting angry when plane wifi was down.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:27 AM   #2492
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 9,723
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
he's doing a lot more harm to himself than good for spending so much time making headlines for jamming up Biden's agenda
He's only harming himself if he plans to run for office again. His actions indicate that he doesn't.

I heard a few months ago that he's never liked being a Senator and seemed to be planning to return to being Governor, which he had actually liked. But showing this much dedication to going against the will of the people of WV looks like he doesn't care about being Governor again either.

S&M are steadily making a case against term limits: a politician with no intention to get re-elected has no incentive to serve the voters.

As an alternative explanation, he's gotten away with going against the will of the people and still getting re-elected anyway so far, so maybe the lesson he's learned from that experience is that he's immune because the voters don't pay attention to what their Senators actually do. If it's true that the voters have finally started paying more attention this time, he's not acting like he believes that they have.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM   #2493
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,494
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
He's only harming himself if he plans to run for office again. His actions indicate that he doesn't.

I heard a few months ago that he's never liked being a Senator and seemed to be planning to return to being Governor, which he had actually liked. But showing this much dedication to going against the will of the people of WV looks like he doesn't care about being Governor again either.

S&M are steadily making a case against term limits: a politician with no intention to get re-elected has no incentive to serve the voters.

As an alternative explanation, he's gotten away with going against the will of the people and still getting re-elected anyway so far, so maybe the lesson he's learned from that experience is that he's immune because the voters don't pay attention to what their Senators actually do. If it's true that the voters have finally started paying more attention this time, he's not acting like he believes that they have.
If we're speculating about Manchin's motives, it seems as likely as not that Manchin correctly understands that his political threat in the state comes from the right. He's a Democrat serving in a state that went 68% for Trump in both 2016 and 2020. He narrowly beat his Republican challenger in 2018, his most recent election. His ability to win under the Democratic label, a liability in his state, is a testament to his personal popularity.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he outright changed his party affiliation to Republican in the near future to head off a Republican challenger. If not that, he needs to continue to prove his "independent" streak by being obstinately conservative while still pretending to be a Democrat.

For all intents and purposes, Manchin really ought not be considered a reliable Democratic vote in the Senate.

Manchin's intransigence is understandable. Sinema is another story entirely, and her stunts seem to be a long shot gamble that, so far, seems to be totally alienating her from the very people that elected her.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; Yesterday at 07:36 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:46 AM   #2494
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,209
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Re: Senator Manchin
Quote:
he's doing a lot more harm to himself than good for spending so much time making headlines for jamming up Biden's agenda
He's only harming himself if he plans to run for office again. His actions indicate that he doesn't.

I heard a few months ago that he's never liked being a Senator and seemed to be planning to return to being Governor, which he had actually liked. But showing this much dedication to going against the will of the people of WV looks like he doesn't care about being Governor again either.

S&M are steadily making a case against term limits: a politician with no intention to get re-elected has no incentive to serve the voters.

As an alternative explanation, he's gotten away with going against the will of the people and still getting re-elected anyway so far...
Or, as yet another alternative explanation...

He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state. (Republicans generally get around 60% of the vote in both presidential and senate races.) Manchin himself barely won his seat in 2018, 49.6%-46.3%.

Even though the Democrat's policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrat's plans.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:19 AM   #2495
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,377
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he outright changed his party affiliation to Republican in the near future to head off a Republican challenger.
That would end his career. He'd be primaried by a screaming GQP racist and never hold office again.

I would be more sympathetic to the practical considerations of being a Democrat elected in WV if he did not also have deep conflicts of interest like his family coal company or his daughter's role as a pharma CEO. His political stance may or may not be what his constituents most desire, but they are directly and substantially funneling money into his family's businesses.
Beelzebuddy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:30 AM   #2496
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,394
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Or, as yet another alternative explanation...

He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state. (Republicans generally get around 60% of the vote in both presidential and senate races.) Manchin himself barely won his seat in 2018, 49.6%-46.3%.

Even though the Democrat's policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrat's plans.


The thing is, that's just wrong. Who they preferred as President doesn't tell the tale. Polling in WV about the actual issue of passing this law or not shows far more support for the bill than for President Biden:

Quote:
Conservative backing appears even more robust in West Virginia, home of Manchin, a moderate Democrat who is one of the critical holdouts on the budget bill and whose efforts could derail the entire plan – or see large chunks of it scrapped as he balks at the budget’s price tag.

But according to the survey, 80% of more than 800 people surveyed in his home state believe he should vote to pass the bill. That includes 77% of conservatives who responded to the survey.

If he really did care about winning his next election, passing this bill would be a no-brainer.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:30 AM   #2497
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 14,198
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Or, as yet another alternative explanation...

He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state. (Republicans generally get around 60% of the vote in both presidential and senate races.) Manchin himself barely won his seat in 2018, 49.6%-46.3%.

Even though the Democrat's policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrat's plans.
WV is one of the poorest states in the country. It competes with Mississippi to be near the bottom of lists of income, education, health, etc. Maybe Manchin should work to persuade his voters that they would benefit big-time from the money that the infrastructure bills would bring them. He's not up for re-election until 2024. That gives him a lot of runway to try to do some good.

Of course, as somebody who gets big money from Big Coal, he might not think his voters are his first priority.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM   #2498
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,219
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
That would end his career. He'd be primaried by a screaming GQP racist and never hold office again.

I would be more sympathetic to the practical considerations of being a Democrat elected in WV if he did not also have deep conflicts of interest like his family coal company or his daughter's role as a pharma CEO. His political stance may or may not be what his constituents most desire, but they are directly and substantially funneling money into his family's businesses.
That might just be a chicken and the egg problem?

Like saying a politician from California has conflicts of interest with the entertainment industry or a New Jersey politician has ties to chemicals. The ties to local industry might be viewed as a plus.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM   #2499
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 9,723
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
his political threat in the state comes from the right. He's a Democrat serving in a state that went 68% for Trump in both 2016 and 2020... His ability to win under the Democratic label, a liability in his state...
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state.
I have some doubt about this. It never comes up except as an explanation for Manchin, but if it were really the driving force behind him, he'd be a Republican, or he wouldn't keep winning for both Senate and Governor. And I've seen a WV insider giving a more intricate description of WV politics, but I don't recall the details or where to find it again. In any case, though...

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he outright changed his party affiliation to Republican in the near future to head off a Republican challenger.
Under the current circumstances, he'd be throwing away the power & attention he's getting now, by making the Senate 51-49 in favor of the party that he has no special position within.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If not that, he needs to continue to prove his "independent" streak by being obstinately conservative while still pretending to be a Democrat.
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even though the Democrats' policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrats' plans.
The policies are very popular in WV too. If that were what this is about, he would've voted for it back when it was 6 trillion. He's probably still used to living in the paradigm of everybody wanting Democrat policies but half of them still hating Democrats anyway. Any danger his re-election might be in would need to be based on the paradigm finally shifting to one in which the voters have started to notice which party is actually pushing for the policies they've always wanted, or have started to pay more attention to policy and less to party. But even under the old paradigm, if his main concern were popularity with the voters, he could have voted for what he knows they want and then campaigned on the issues. The fact that he not only hasn't done so before, but also still refuses to do so now even with more public attention finally on policies instead of parties than before, tells me he's not being driven by any kind of appeal to voters one way or the other. Like most other politicians in any system where bribery is legal, he's mostly just doing what the people who bribed him bribed him for. And what he figures is best for his own personal stake in the coal industry.

Last edited by Delvo; Yesterday at 08:43 AM.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM   #2500
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,494
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I have some doubt about this. It never comes up except as an explanation for Manchin, but if it were really the driving force behind him, he'd be a Republican, or he wouldn't keep winning for both Senate and Governor. And I've seen a WV insider giving a more intricate description of WV politics, but I don't recall the details or where to find it again. In any case, though...

Under the current circumstances, he'd be throwing away the power & attention he's getting now, by making the Senate 51-49 in favor of the party that he has no special position within.

The policies are very popular in WV too. If that were what this is about, he would've voted for it back when it was 6 trillion. He's probably still used to living in the paradigm of everybody wanting Democrat policies but half of them still hating Democrats anyway. Any danger his re-election might be in would need to be based on the paradigm finally shifting to one in which the voters have started to notice which party is actually pushing for the policies they've always wanted, or have started to pay more attention to policy and less to party. But even under the old paradigm, if his main concern were popularity with the voters, he could have voted for what he knows they want and then campaigned on the issues. The fact that he not only hasn't done so before, but also still refuses to do so now even with more public attention finally on policies instead of parties than before, tells me he's not being driven by any kind of appeal to voters one way or the other. Like most other politicians in any system where bribery is legal, he's mostly just doing what the people who bribed him bribed him for. And what he figures is best for his own personal stake in the coal industry.
Progressive policies are often popular in red states when the people are polled about the issues directly, but that doesn't mean that they won't keep voting for hostile right wing freaks to represent them in government.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM   #2501
llwyd
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 835
I have to say that these current terms for senators are awfully imprecise - who cares if someone is the senior or junior senator from Arizona, New York, Louisiana or West Virginia: why not just say the senator for Big Pharma, the senator for Wall Street, the senator for Oil Industry, the senator for Coal etc. etc. You would immediately get an idea of what to expect.
llwyd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM   #2502
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,209
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Re: Manchin...
Quote:
Or, as yet another alternative explanation...

He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state. (Republicans generally get around 60% of the vote in both presidential and senate races.) Manchin himself barely won his seat in 2018, 49.6%-46.3%.

Even though the Democrat's policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrat's plans.
WV is one of the poorest states in the country. It competes with Mississippi to be near the bottom of lists of income, education, health, etc. Maybe Manchin should work to persuade his voters that they would benefit big-time from the money that the infrastructure bills would bring them.
I think any plan that requires "education/Persuading" of voters is doomed to fail. (Especially when you are trying to educate republican-leaning voters.)

Remember, a significant portion of the population still thinks Trump won in 2020. A large number of voters hate Obamacare but like the Affordable care act. Basically, a lot of voters are dumb.

Manchin could put together a very compelling argument for his voters about why the infrastructure bill would be a great thing for West Virginia voters, but there is no guarantee that 1) they would listen in the first place, and 2) the message would stick, since those same voters would probably also tune in to fox news to hear they screech about how its "the first step of communist fascism orchestrated by George Soros and the chinese.".
Quote:
Of course, as somebody who gets big money from Big Coal, he might not think his voters are his first priority.
I certainly cannot discount the possibility that he is influenced by the coal industry. (At the very least, it is very bad optics.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM   #2503
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,494
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post

I certainly cannot discount the possibility that he is influenced by the coal industry. (At the very least, it is very bad optics.)
Manchin isn't influenced by big coal, he is a coal baron. Huge amounts of his wealth are invested in coal businesses he started, and his son runs it in a "blind" trust.

Quote:
Though Manchin’s motivations are often ascribed to the conservative, coal-friendly politics of West Virginia, it is also the case that the state’s senior senator is heavily invested in the industry — and owes much of his considerable fortune to it.

For decades, Manchin has profited from a series of coal companies that he founded during the 1980s. His son, Joe Manchin IV, has since assumed leadership roles in the firms, and the senator says his ownership is held in a blind trust. Yet between the time he joined the Senate and today, Manchin has personally grossed more than $4.5 million from those firms, according to financial disclosures. He also holds stock options in Enersystems Inc., the larger of the two firms, valued between $1 and $5 million.

Those two companies are Enersystems Inc. and Farmington Resources Inc., the latter of which was created by the rapid merging of two other firms, Manchin’s Transcon and Farmington Energy in 2005. Enersystems purchases low-quality waste coal from mines and resells it to power plants as fuel, while Farmington Resources provides “support activities for mining” and holds coal reserves in the Fairmont area. Over the decades, whether feeding tens of thousands of tons of dirty waste coal into the power plants in northern West Virginia or subjecting workers to unsafe conditions, Manchin’s family coal business has almost entirely avoided public scrutiny.

Manchin did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/03/...els-pollution/
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; Yesterday at 11:54 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:52 AM   #2504
Delvo
Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Tonawanda, NY
Posts: 9,723
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Manchin could put together a very compelling argument for his voters about why the infrastructure bill would be a great thing for West Virginia voters
You have that backward. They're the ones who already think it is. He's the one who doesn't.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM   #2505
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21,219
When was the last time there was a more liberal reconciliation bill of infrastructure bill that passed than the one Manchin supports?

I think it tops ARRA in liberal qualities?

Last edited by BobTheCoward; Yesterday at 12:06 PM.
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM   #2506
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,209
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Quote:
He understands that West Virginia is a deeply red state.
I have some doubt about this. It never comes up except as an explanation for Manchin,
Why would it come up at any other time?

Its obvious its a deep-red state. Voting records show that. Its not like anyone is going to discuss "flipping" west virginia to the democrats.
Quote:
but if it were really the driving force behind him, he'd be a Republican, or he wouldn't keep winning for both Senate and Governor.
I really do think Manchin is pretty much stuck in the center. He has voted both for and against funding Planned Parenthood. He voted against certain environmental regulations, but seems to recognize global warming as an issue. He has been at one point, pro-gun, but has also tried to bring in stronger background checks. He was against certain LGBTQ legislation, but is supportive of Obamacare.

To many Democrats, he certainly doesn't look like "one of them", but I don't think he would fit in the republican party either.
Quote:
Quote:
Even though the Democrats' policies may be popular in a national level (and even among some people in West Virginia), he has to consider that the majority of voters in west Virginia might actually be opposed to some of the Democrats' plans.
The policies are very popular in WV too.
First of all, I haven't seen any polls which point to the popularity of the infrastructure plan in west virgina. (At least nothing that was a proper opinion poll... maybe one exists and if so, perhaps you could provide it.)

Secondly, when evaluating the popularity of any policy, you have to consider just what people are in favor of. (Its easy to support a vague policy, but more difficult when the details start to get fleshed out.)... west virginia voters might like the idea of increased infrastructure spending (i.e. "Fix up our roads", but they may not like certain other portions of the spending bill (i.e. "Leave our coal alone".)

And, as someone has pointed out, people do not always vote in a way that benefits them. (Look at all the Obamacare recipients who voted for Stubby McBonespurs.) Sometimes its less a case of "Will my voters benefit from this policy" and more a case of "Will my voters be smart enough to understand this policy helps them".
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:52 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.