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Tags Florida politics , Matt Gaetz , newsmax

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Old 4th April 2021, 09:19 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why is it that everything in the US either circles back to slavery/segregation or abortion?
Jen Psaki, is that you?
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Old 4th April 2021, 09:37 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah but that only works if people already have a strong opinion about these things. Racism and religious bigotry are the bigger problem here.
White slaveowners published newsletters encouraging racism, and passing and enforcing laws that prevented poor white people and slaves from associating with each other. Poor white southerners knew that slavery was driving down their wages, and as such, they had to be kept in line to keep the money flowing.

As far as Abortion goes, there wasn't really any major debate or controversy about it amongst the religious right for several years after Roe V Wade. It took a big PR push to convince the evangelical right to care about it, and once they scored a few political victories...
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Old 4th April 2021, 10:06 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah but that only works if people already have a strong opinion about these things. Racism and religious bigotry are the bigger problem here.
Really? It seems that every week we have a new manufactured concern for society to wring it's hands over. Last week I had to listen to some guy tell me how his family hates Nike because of "satan shoes."

It's hard to listen to these people and not scream "who the **** gives a ******?!?"

The internet has fostered a group of people who can't wait to be introduced to the newest thing to whine about every day when they look at their phones. It's just makes it easier for the ******** to divert attention from themselves. "Don't look behind the curtain, kids! Look over here, Mr. Potato Head is being emasculated by the commies! Get 'em!"
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Old 4th April 2021, 11:02 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
Really? It seems that every week we have a new manufactured concern for society to wring it's hands over. Last week I had to listen to some guy tell me how his family hates Nike because of "satan shoes."

It's hard to listen to these people and not scream "who the **** gives a ******?!?"
Those people, presumably. Just because you and I don't care doesn't mean no one does. And those people are more likely to vote than us.
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Old 4th April 2021, 12:01 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why is it that everything in the US either circles back to slavery/segregation or abortion?
Keep in mind that the US fought it's bloody and most brutal war, and warped it's constitution for a great majority of the time after, because some folks were *really* invested in the idea that their skin color makes them inherently superior to other people. It even managed to filter into religion...

...no, wait, I mean the more mainstream ones. Like, the AME church, the Southern Baptists, Pentacostals vs. Church of God in Christ (COGIC).

(Oddly, abortion is a bit sooner, and has become a wedge issue because newer republicans like Reagan and Paul Weyrich needed an issue aside from overt racial segregation to rally their Moral Majority behind.)

(And of course, there's the variety of mistreatments of other nonwhite groups/ethnicities as well, but I honestly don't know as much there because of the above, as this is family history for me.)

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
Really? It seems that every week we have a new manufactured concern for society to wring it's hands over. Last week I had to listen to some guy tell me how his family hates Nike because of "satan shoes."

It's hard to listen to these people and not scream "who the **** gives a ******?!?"
Funny part is, Nike doesn't make any "Satan shoes" - that's some reseller that customizes their sneakers.
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Old 4th April 2021, 01:15 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Keep in mind that the US fought it's bloody and most brutal war, and warped it's constitution for a great majority of the time after, because some folks were *really* invested in the idea that their skin color makes them inherently superior to other people.
I'm way ahead of you. Even before the US was a country, race was at the center of its politics. That has never changed.
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Old 4th April 2021, 02:19 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post


Funny part is, Nike doesn't make any "Satan shoes" - that's some reseller that customizes their sneakers.
I know. I had to explain this to him before his wife threw away all their Nike merchandise.
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Old 4th April 2021, 02:24 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Those people, presumably. Just because you and I don't care doesn't mean no one does. And those people are more likely to vote than us.
One, no.

Two, I don't mind that people care about things I don't. But if they're going to focus on the latest crise du jour rather than the long-term systemic problems that affect all of us, and base their voting on that, I reserve the right to call them morons.
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Old 4th April 2021, 02:30 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
One, no.
No what?

Quote:
Two, I don't mind that people care about things I don't. But if they're going to focus on the latest crise du jour rather than the long-term systemic problems that affect all of us, and base their voting on that, I reserve the right to call them morons.
How does that relate to what I originally said? I simply said that the strategy works only if the audience believes things that are already compatible with the narrative offered. What's your exact issue with what I wrote?
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Old 4th April 2021, 02:38 PM   #250
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They're not more likely to vote than me.

I understand that people are going to care about some things I find silly. But when they allow themselves to be so easily swayed by the garbage thrown at them, I lose respect for them.

Add the fact that I personally know people who get themselves worked up over every social tempest in a teapot from Pepe le Pew being cancelled to "ALL LIVES MATTER GODDAMNIT!". They get angry with me when I don't take this nonsense seriously, so then we can't even talk about the things that actually affect us, rather than how "disrespectful" Kamala Harris is, or whatever other BS Tucker Carlson is vomiting up today.
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Old 4th April 2021, 02:55 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
They're not more likely to vote than me.
Reactionaries are highly politically-motivated, in my experience.

Moderates are less so.

Quote:
I understand that people are going to care about some things I find silly. But when they allow themselves to be so easily swayed by the garbage thrown at them, I lose respect for them.
Of course. That's not in question.

Quote:
Add the fact that I personally know people who get themselves worked up over every social tempest in a teapot from Pepe le Pew being cancelled to "ALL LIVES MATTER GODDAMNIT!".
You know what pisses me off about that? It's that I agree that "all lives matter" and that, in a normal world, it would be a very good answer to the question "do black lives matter?". But we live in a world of bigots and idiots, so when one hears the otherwise-reasonable "all lives matter", one can instead reasonably expect the speaker to be a racist, because they can't bring themselves to just answer "yes, of course", and that really annoys me. Unreasonable people make reasonable points, arguments and positions into muck.
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Old 4th April 2021, 03:18 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You know what pisses me off about that? It's that I agree that "all lives matter" and that, in a normal world, it would be a very good answer to the question "do black lives matter?". But we live in a world of bigots and idiots, so when one hears the otherwise-reasonable "all lives matter", one can instead reasonably expect the speaker to be a racist, because they can't bring themselves to just answer "yes, of course", and that really annoys me. Unreasonable people make reasonable points, arguments and positions into muck.
I've related this story before:
A local case

A girl had her car break down on the highway, so she left it there and got a ride home. She called her dad to help get the car. He called the state police office and told them the situation, and that he was going out to work on the car so he could get it off the highway.

He goes out in the afternoon and is laying with his head under the engine. His belt is visible, and he is carrying a piston. He is licensed to carry.

A state policeman approaches and orders him to get out from under the car. As he was doing so, the policeman claims that "he reached for his gun" and so the policeman shot and killed him.

By the way, he was a white guy.

Now, the family has sued the state police. But you know who also complained? Folks who support BLM.

You know who hasn't said a peep about it? The "All Lives Matter" crowd.

Because I can't imagine how anyone who was actually concerned about All Lives would not have a huge problem with this.

Blue Lives Matter, sure, they can find excuses for the policeman. But no one can reasonably can defend this.
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Old 4th April 2021, 03:38 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post

You know what pisses me off about that? It's that I agree that "all lives matter" and that, in a normal world, it would be a very good answer to the question "do black lives matter?". But we live in a world of bigots and idiots, so when one hears the otherwise-reasonable "all lives matter", one can instead reasonably expect the speaker to be a racist, because they can't bring themselves to just answer "yes, of course", and that really annoys me. Unreasonable people make reasonable points, arguments and positions into muck.
Exactly. It's bad faith argumentation. You have to be willfully obtuse not to realize the broader implication of "Black Lives Matter", instead to focus on the semantic BS of "I care about ALL LIVES!" <smug look>.

I refuse to play such games. It's a waste of time.

I agree with most everything you said, by the way. It's just that not everybody cares about racial and religious divides as much as others. Sometimes well-meaning people let themselves get distracted by people trying to camouflage their racist BS, and it just frustrates me.

Don't let the ******** distract you from the evil **** they're doing with the latest "threat to the childrenz!" or whatever.
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Old 4th April 2021, 03:47 PM   #254
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There might, might be some... nuance if "All Lives Matter" had been an established term/phrase before "Black Lives Matter" instead of an obvious response to it.
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:03 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I know. I had to explain this to him before his wife threw away all their Nike merchandise.
Oh noes! One of the sites Caroline13 linked to had an error! Imagine that!
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:04 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
Don't let the ******** distract you from the evil **** they're doing with the latest "threat to the childrenz!" or whatever.
As Rachel Maddow sometimes puts it... "watch what they do, not what they say!"
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:12 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There might, might be some... nuance if "All Lives Matter" had been an established term/phrase before "Black Lives Matter" instead of an obvious response to it.
An excellent point.
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:33 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Oh noes! One of the sites Caroline13 linked to had an error! Imagine that!
Are you sure you posted this in the right thread? ]

AFAIK, Caroline13 hasn't posted in this thread at all
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:33 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
An excellent point.
A good question to ask is "Exactly when did all lives begin to matter?"
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:33 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
There might, might be some... nuance if "All Lives Matter" had been an established term/phrase before "Black Lives Matter" instead of an obvious response to it.
It's a common ploy of those who are bigoted but know that it's wrong, or at least unpopular, to say it outright. So they pretend not to know the difference between focus and exclusion.

I think it's a close relative of the habit I think of as "moral triage," in which those who wish to disparage a cause find (as one always can) another cause which seems more important. As the Bible says, the poor we will always have with us, so of course it's easy to belittle any other effort simply by pointing out that it isn't saving the poor. How dare you put your effort into [choose a cause that might actually be doable] when children are starving? Of course if you eat your broccoli they will still starve, but the priorities are preserved. If you do what you can, those who oppose you can always couch it in the cheap truism that what you can't do is more important.
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:35 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
A good question to ask is "Exactly when did all lives begin to matter?"
Ironically enough, to a lot of folks, lives stop mattering when we consider that they begin...
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:42 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post

Blue Lives Matter, sure, they can find excuses for the policeman. But no one can reasonably can defend this.
The Blue Lives Matter crowd is too busy justifying gouging the eyes of Capitol Police to be bothered with any specifics.
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:43 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I've related this story before:
A local case

A girl had her car break down on the highway, so she left it there and got a ride home. She called her dad to help get the car. He called the state police office and told them the situation, and that he was going out to work on the car so he could get it off the highway.

He goes out in the afternoon and is laying with his head under the engine. His belt is visible, and he is carrying a piston. He is licensed to carry.

A state policeman approaches and orders him to get out from under the car. As he was doing so, the policeman claims that "he reached for his gun" and so the policeman shot and killed him.

By the way, he was a white guy.

Now, the family has sued the state police. But you know who also complained? Folks who support BLM.

You know who hasn't said a peep about it? The "All Lives Matter" crowd.

Because I can't imagine how anyone who was actually concerned about All Lives would not have a huge problem with this.

Blue Lives Matter, sure, they can find excuses for the policeman. But no one can reasonably can defend this.
A piston, eh?
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:44 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I've related this story before:
A local case

A girl had her car break down on the highway, so she left it there and got a ride home. She called her dad to help get the car. He called the state police office and told them the situation, and that he was going out to work on the car so he could get it off the highway.

He goes out in the afternoon and is laying with his head under the engine. His belt is visible, and he is carrying a piston. He is licensed to carry.

A state policeman approaches and orders him to get out from under the car. As he was doing so, the policeman claims that "he reached for his gun" and so the policeman shot and killed him.

By the way, he was a white guy.

Now, the family has sued the state police. But you know who also complained? Folks who support BLM.

You know who hasn't said a peep about it? The "All Lives Matter" crowd.

Because I can't imagine how anyone who was actually concerned about All Lives would not have a huge problem with this.

Blue Lives Matter, sure, they can find excuses for the policeman. But no one can reasonably can defend this.
It's really hard to believe this anecdote. And even if true (because I can believe the cops would shoot anyone at the drop of a hat), who were these BLM people, how many of them, did they speak for the group???

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Old 4th April 2021, 04:45 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ironically enough, to a lot of folks, lives stop mattering when we consider that they begin...
Not biting.
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Old 4th April 2021, 04:55 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's really hard to believe this anecdote. And even if true (because I can believe the cops would shoot anyone at the drop of a hat), who were these BLM people, how many of them, did they speak for the group???
BLM has been protesting the police shootings of many non-Black civilians for several years now.
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:00 PM   #267
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This is a combination of two factors (I think.)

- The idea that the Left is "too dramatic" about things so that gives them an excuse to just do them to "balance out the scale."

- A growing demographic of nihilistic man-children that don't care about being right or wrong as long as they get to "show up" someone or "take them down a peg."
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:04 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
The Blue Lives Matter crowd is too busy justifying gouging the eyes of Capitol Police to be bothered with any specifics.
Bingo.
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:04 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Not biting.
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:09 PM   #270
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As I wrote in the Marjorie Taylor Greene thread, these are the new Republicans, some of whom are only about establishing a 'brand' they can cash in on for a long time. They really have no business being in government. Below is a quote from a story that appeared on the local CBS affiliate in Miami.
Quote:
“They're here for notoriety and to perform to their base, and anything else that may come is secondary,” said Doug Heye, a Trump critic and former top GOP congressional aide. “And if you boo him that's great too, as long as you're watching.” CBS Miami link
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:10 PM   #271
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Call me crazy but Congress isn't the place you should be treating as a paid internship to your eventual job playing a character who writes pro-conspiracy fan fiction for TOTALLYNOTFAKENEWS.RUS
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:16 PM   #272
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There is only so much crazy the future wingnut welfare system can handle. Releasing 4-5 nutters into the wild will drain the OOAN ecosphere pretty fast.
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:18 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
As I wrote in the Marjorie Taylor Greene thread, these are the new Republicans, some of whom are only about establishing a 'brand' they can cash in on for a long time. They really have no business being in government. Below is a quote from a story that appeared on the local CBS affiliate in Miami.
It’s funny because the brand is all based on being anti career politician and anti government and anti cronyism
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Old 4th April 2021, 05:22 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Call me crazy but Congress isn't the place you should be treating as a paid internship to your eventual job playing a character who writes pro-conspiracy fan fiction for TOTALLYNOTFAKENEWS.RUS
This is why I was only half-joking when I said Alex Jones would win the Republican presidential nomination if he ran. His brand of loony is now completely mainstream and he doesn’t care if he is wrong.
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Old 4th April 2021, 06:22 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Gaetz has a massive head compared to his body. Did you see him at CPAC?



Oh, lordy, that suit!
It suddenly occurred to me this morning what Gaetz reminds me of...

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Old 4th April 2021, 06:27 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
It suddenly occurred to me this morning what Gaetz reminds me of...
You think he's a Romulan?
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Old 4th April 2021, 07:03 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You think he's a Romulan?
Err, Doh! Do you understand what "reminds me of" means?

I think he looks like one.

Put it this way, he would not need much time in the makeup department... he already has the scowl and the heavy brow, all he would need is the forehead ridges, the pointy ears and the bowl-cut!
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Old 4th April 2021, 08:28 PM   #278
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Ever since I saw a photo of his next to one of Butthead, (of Beavis and... fame) I can't see anything else.
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Old 4th April 2021, 10:53 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Err, Doh! Do you understand what "reminds me of" means?

I think he looks like one.

Put it this way, he would not need much time in the makeup department... he already has the scowl and the heavy brow, all he would need is the forehead ridges, the pointy ears and the bowl-cut!
It DOES look like he plucks his eyebrows in that picture.
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Old 5th April 2021, 03:03 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
This type of law is a bit unusual because some states also have laws against this. The idea is that if the age of consent in the state is 18 but in the neighboring state it is 16 and some creepy old guy wants to have sex with a 16 year old and happens to live near the border he can just take them across the border to do the deed. That is viewed as still violating the state law and just using the state lines as a loophole.
But in this case it seems like he was being investigated not because they may have had sex but rather that he may paid or otherwise compensated them for it.
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