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Old 10th September 2021, 04:21 PM   #1
sir drinks-a-lot
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Vaccine mandates

Did you hear about them? What do you think?
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Old 10th September 2021, 04:49 PM   #2
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About damn time. The good of the country comes first and if the minority anti-vaxx crowd, be they politically or just plain stupid motivated, can't be allowed to continue to infect and/or kill people. They are the ones hurting our economy because we can't get past the pandemic. It's not going away as long as only 53% of our country is vaccinated.
What Biden is doing is necessary and legal as has been determined by past SC decisions on vaccine mandates. If it takes them losing their jobs or getting vaccinated, then that's their choice. Tough.
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Old 10th September 2021, 04:53 PM   #3
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I think anyone who doesn't get a vaccine is a complete idiot and society shouldn't have to put up with their idiocy.

And I don't want to hear one word from conservative trolls that only care about "mah rights" when the right in question lets them hurt other people.
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Old 10th September 2021, 04:53 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
About damn time. The good of the country comes first and if the minority anti-vaxx crowd, be they politically or just plain stupid motivated, can't be allowed to continue to infect and/or kill people. They are the ones hurting our economy because we can't get past the pandemic. It's not going away as long as only 53% of our country is vaccinated.
What Biden is doing is necessary and legal as has been determined by past SC decisions on vaccine mandates. If it takes them losing their jobs or getting vaccinated, then that's their choice. Tough.
Seconded.
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Old 10th September 2021, 05:00 PM   #5
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Which ones, as there have been a number throughout U.S. history, and have been found constitional to boot? Something about promoting the general welfare of the citizenry; you know, as in the preamble to the constitution.
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Old 10th September 2021, 05:00 PM   #6
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I welcome it. I am worried about the backlash from the people who want to frame it as a civil rights issue when deep down most of them are deeply skeptical of.........science, and the rights thing seems more like a smokescreen to avoid explicitly engaging with the facts. But there certainly are the hardass edgy libertarian types, mostly young men I think, who simply don't want to be told what to do.
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Old 10th September 2021, 05:13 PM   #7
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It doesn't concern me personally, I got vaccinated ASAP
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Old 10th September 2021, 05:29 PM   #8
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This is a great precedent to set.
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Old 10th September 2021, 05:53 PM   #9
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Apparently the precedent was set a long, long time ago. Below, from NPR-

Quote:
The first vaccine mandate law was enacted in the United States in 1809 for smallpox. But the Supreme Court in 1905 in a very famous case called Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld a Cambridge City law, which required smallpox vaccination. That was something where the Supreme Court said that we don't have a right to place other people at risk. And by 1922, in another case, Justice Brandeis, writing for unanimous court, upheld childhood school mandates, calling it settled law. NPR link
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Old 10th September 2021, 06:03 PM   #10
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This is a great precedent to set.
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Apparently the precedent was set a long, long time ago. Below,
Quote:
Quote:
The first vaccine mandate law was enacted in the United States in 1809 for smallpox. But the Supreme Court in 1905 in a very famous case called Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld a Cambridge City law, which required smallpox vaccination. That was something where the Supreme Court said that we don't have a right to place other people at risk. And by 1922, in another case, Justice Brandeis, writing for unanimous court, upheld childhood school mandates, calling it settled law
from NPR-
John Marshall Harlan writing for the majority;

Quote:
“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.

“Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.” Jacobson v Massachusetts
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Old 10th September 2021, 06:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
It doesn't concern me personally, I got vaccinated ASAP
And this is the attitude that pisses me off.

If your statement was true, it WOULD be a personal choice only.

But we need to eliminate the virus from the population, because you CAN GIVE IT TO OTHER people. That is why mandates are about general welfare, not about protecting YOU.
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Old 10th September 2021, 06:34 PM   #12
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I'm mixed. Not fond of the overreaching mandate.

But it needs to happen.
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Old 10th September 2021, 06:38 PM   #13
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I'm really disappointed that it's come to this.

When the vaccines finally started to roll out, I thought that people would be stampeding to get them...and it looked like they were, at first. But then that wave of enthusiasm died out and, unlike new Covid cases, there was no second or third wave.

One of my best friends was pretty enthusiastic about the vaccine last year, before they were widely available. We were planning on getting vaccinated as soon as the more vulnerable got theirs first. I followed through. He did not. When I asked why, he said something about how he was waiting, and he would be sure to be "forced to get it through means of bullying, or through commerce enforcement, travel or doing anything enjoyable." Then he asked me not to discuss it anymore and I didn't, because he might see it as "bullying." That was in May (after I had already been turned into a magnetic 5G tentacle monster myself.)

When it came up again a few weeks ago he said he was still waiting because he was wary of side effects, and he said that maybe he would maybe get it in the fall. Shortly afterward, he informed me that he had entered an Iron Man triathlon in Alaska for next summer and he planned on driving through Canada to get there. Any by the way, he had just lost his job.

My reaction could best be summed up as: *Blink blink* (Loading, please wait) Um. Okay?

There's no moral here. Not even a sob story (yet). Just an anecdote about excuses, denial, and mental gymnastics.

I'm okay with the mandates. Not exactly enthused, but okay. Maybe a little "bullying" might tip a few more people over the decision point.

Last edited by Purple Pangolin; 10th September 2021 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Tpyo
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Old 10th September 2021, 07:24 PM   #14
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The joke about vaccine mandates is that EVERY SINGLE STATE in the United States has vaccine mandates.

EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Can't send your kid to public school in Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, West Virginia or any Red State in the country without having your child vaccinated against chickenpox, measles, rubella, etc. Or Blue States.

Why the objection to a COVID vaccination?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 10th September 2021, 07:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
John Marshall Harlan writing for the majority;
I think it’s a strong argument. You don’t really have the liberty to travel freely, for instance, if the roads are filled with drunk drivers and so the freedom to drink and drive is limited in the exchange that others on the road are safe to travel freely. I think the same holds for communicable disease.

In any case, during the great mask debate of 2020 I was being told that if I don’t like the risk I should stay home. Well if you don’t like the “risk” of a vaccination, stay home.
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Old 10th September 2021, 08:00 PM   #16
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I think it’s a strong argument. You don’t really have the liberty to travel freely, for instance, if the roads are filled with drunk drivers and so the freedom to drink and drive is limited in the exchange that others on the road are safe to travel freely. I think the same holds for communicable disease.

In any case, during the great mask debate of 2020 I was being told that if I don’t like the risk I should stay home. Well if you don’t like the “risk” of a vaccination, stay home.
Except very few stay home.

For the life of me. I can't believe this is an issue in America. Republicans as a party have never been anti-vaxxers.

Hell, even Trump attacked some Democratic woman as an anti-vaxxer. (This was pre-COVID.) She wasn't really, but that's not the point.

It would be nice if we didn't have to roll up our sleeves to protect ourselves and our fellow citizens. But this is not too much to ask. My parents were asked to do a hell of a lot more during WW2.
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Old 10th September 2021, 08:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Did you hear about them? What do you think?

Mandate? You mean like ration books in the USA back in WW2?

Back in WW2 we lost over 400,000 dead. The vast majority were soldiers in foreign lands. Back home, the country operated with ration books for sugar, meat, etc. Oh, sure, the political royals and other rich bits probably managed to get around that, but others were tilling victory gardens.

Today the USA is in a war with a germ, we've already lost over 600,000 dead, but this time all of us are wearing combat boots and all of us are in the trenches and what is being asked of us this time? Ration books?

No.

1. Wear a mask. It's not a muzzle, you can still vocalize your opinion, believe me, I've done it.

2. Social distancing

3. Wash your hands more often.

4. Get vaccinated.

A lot of today's USAians would have never survived the mandates of WW2.
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Mandate? You mean like ration books in the USA back in WW2?

Back in WW2 we lost over 400,000 dead. The vast majority were soldiers in foreign lands. Back home, the country operated with ration books for sugar, meat, etc. Oh, sure, the political royals and other rich bits probably managed to get around that, but others were tilling victory gardens.

Today the USA is in a war with a germ, we've already lost over 600,000 dead, but this time all of us are wearing combat boots and all of us are in the trenches and what is being asked of us this time? Ration books?

No.

1. Wear a mask. It's not a muzzle, you can still vocalize your opinion, believe me, I've done it.

2. Social distancing

3. Wash your hands more often.

4. Get vaccinated.

A lot of today's USAians would have never survived the mandates of WW2.
That because somehow, in the decades between WWII and now, the concept of doing something for the good of the country shifted from you know, actually doing something to just saying things. If you say the words "I support our troops!" then you are an amazing patriot. If you actually perform some kind of action that benefits your fellow countrymen, that's pinko snowflake communism and you deserve to go to hell for trampling FREEDOM.
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This is a great precedent to set.
Now I know you're playing at the troll thing. You bloody well know this is in no way a "precedent."
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I'm mixed. Not fond of the overreaching mandate.

But it needs to happen.
It's not overreaching, though. It wouldn't have even been thought of had adults by the tens of millions not acted like selfidh toddlers. It's a necessary policy for the good of all.

Just because it's the first time such a thing was exacted in many people's lifetimes does not make it dangerously new. We've been here before. Some idiots NEED to be commanded for their own good, let alone for others.

Indeed, the Venn diagram of the anti-vax lot and those who crave an authoritarian leader would appear to have a fair overlap.
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
For the life of me. I can't believe this is an issue in America. Republicans as a party have never been anti-vaxxers.
Generally, they aren't, that I can tell. The "you can't tell me what to do with my body!" folks have traditionally been liberals.

I have family/friends all over the political spectrum, and what bothers me is this: the slammed to the left liberals are all "yeah this is great because Biden!" while those slammed to the right are "this is BS because Biden!"

And I guarantee you that if this had happened while Trump was president, the reactions would be completely flipped. So typical. There is no even semi-objective analysis, no thought processes at all really, involved with extremists; it's just "my side is always right and the other side is always wrong!" BS. So when it comes up I just sort of nod and go "yeah whatever" and change the subject.

Generally, I favor this. Not because Biden. Because it makes sense. People don't have the "right" to endanger other people's lives. i.e. eff off you alt-med screwballs.

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Old 10th September 2021, 09:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
Generally, they aren't, that I can tell. The "you can't tell me what to do with my body!" folks have traditionally been liberals.

I have family/friends all over the political spectrum, and what bothers me is this: the slammed to the left liberals are all "yeah this is great because Biden!" while those slammed to the right are "this is BS because Biden!"

And I guarantee you that if this had happened while Trump was president, the reactions would be completely flipped. So typical. There is no even semi-objective analysis, no thought processes at all really, involved with extremists; it's just "my side is always right and the other side is always wrong!" BS. So when it comes up I just sort of nod and go "yeah whatever" and change the subject.

Generally, I favor this. Not because Biden. Because it makes sense. People don't have the "right" to endanger other people's lives. i.e. eff off you alt-med screwballs.
Not true. Not one bit. I detest Trump with every fiber of my being but if he had been re-elected and then ordered a vaccine mandate, I would have said "The moron FINALLY did something right!" Why? Because I trust the science and believe vaccines are one of the greatest inventions of mankind regardless of the politics at the time.

On at least two occasions I defended Trump in some way and got blasted by some on here but I stood my ground. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
So I know you are dead wrong on this.
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Old 10th September 2021, 09:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not true. Not one bit. I detest Trump with every fiber of my being but if he had been re-elected and then ordered a vaccine mandate, I would have said "The moron FINALLY did something right!" Why? Because I trust the science and believe vaccines are one of the greatest inventions of mankind regardless of the politics at the time.

On at least two occasions I defended Trump in some way and got blasted by some on here but I stood my ground. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
So I know you are dead wrong on this.
Agreed. Trump ****** up the pandemic response.
All he needed to do was to listen to his own people. Enforce mask mandates, rush a vaccine (safely) and effectively shut the country down for maybe 2-3 months to get people to stay home.

But now we have utter morons deciding that their rights mean being allowed to infect others, while stripping women of their rights over their own bodies.

Damnit. Now I'm pissed again.
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Old 10th September 2021, 10:15 PM   #24
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Trumpers, not to worry. A mandate doesn't mean you have to go on a date with another man. Whew!
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Old 10th September 2021, 10:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Agreed. Trump ****** up the pandemic response.
All he needed to do was to listen to his own people. Enforce mask mandates, rush a vaccine (safely) and effectively shut the country down for maybe 2-3 months to get people to stay home.

But now we have utter morons deciding that their rights mean being allowed to infect others, while stripping women of their rights over their own bodies.

Damnit. Now I'm pissed again.
I'm so angry with the Republicans right now that I just want to scream. They've supported Trump through all his crap, including refusing to find him guilty in two impeachments when they know damn well he's guilty, have supported his lying, defended his disgusting behavior, pushed his Big Lie which they know is a lie, are trying to take the country back to the mentality of the 1950's and are shaking the very foundations of our democracy. And why? All for their own partisan and personal gain. They disgust me.
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Old 10th September 2021, 10:39 PM   #26
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The worst part is that NONE of this ever needed to happen. The US Covid=19 death totals could have been as few as 5,000 or less if there had been a competent president in the White House at the time of virus first hit - a president who followed the science, listened to the medical experts and acted on their advice.

Instead, you had a know-it-all conspiracy theorist, anti-science clown who kept saying it would go away on its own, who promoted bat-crap loony ideas such as lights inside the body, and beach injection and taking hydroxychoroquine, and who was primarily responsible for politicizing mask wearing and encouraging distrust in vaccines.

The vast majority of the US' 660,000 Covid-19 deaths are on his head, and the heads of those in the circus around him.
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Old 10th September 2021, 11:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm so angry with the Republicans right now that I just want to scream. They've supported Trump through all his crap, including refusing to find him guilty in two impeachments when they know damn well he's guilty, have supported his lying, defended his disgusting behavior, pushed his Big Lie which they know is a lie, are trying to take the country back to the mentality of the 1950's and are shaking the very foundations of our democracy. And why? All for their own partisan and personal gain. They disgust me.
Hopefully these vaccine mandates will create some unity between the two parties.

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Old 10th September 2021, 11:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hopefully these vaccine mandates will create some unity between the two parties.
and who would want that?

certainly not the Republicans, who have blown up any attempt at bipartisanship since Clinton, and have declared their highest political goal to make then Obama's, and now Biden's Presidency a failure.
Doing something both parties can agree on is to be avoided at all costs, as per McConnell's marching orders.


Stricter mandates are a no-brainer, which is why so many people with no brains oppose them.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:13 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Did you hear about them? What do you think?
It's the best thing that we could do in this country to get us past this virus, and our economy back on track.

I do feel bad for the people who will lose their jobs, but I also feel bad for the people who unnecessarily lost their lives. This is very similar to our reckless driving laws. We should not allow people to unnecessarily endanger those around them.

We should all be wanting to get behind a proven safe, effective, and free method to end this pandemic. With over 5.5 billion doses given, and full FDA approval, it has been pretty thoroughly proven to be safe. Especially since the only opposition I have seen to this so far is based on conspiracies, and misunderstanding about the efficacy of the vaccines.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:21 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hopefully these vaccine mandates will create some unity between the two parties.
See TGZ's reply. I agree with it:

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
and who would want that?

certainly not the Republicans, who have blown up any attempt at bipartisanship since Clinton, and have declared their highest political goal to make then Obama's, and now Biden's Presidency a failure.
Doing something both parties can agree on is to be avoided at all costs, as per McConnell's marching orders.


Stricter mandates are a no-brainer, which is why so many people with no brains oppose them.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:31 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
and who would want that?

certainly not the Republicans, who have blown up any attempt at bipartisanship since Clinton, and have declared their highest political goal to make then Obama's, and now Biden's Presidency a failure.
Doing something both parties can agree on is to be avoided at all costs, as per McConnell's marching orders.


Stricter mandates are a no-brainer, which is why so many people with no brains oppose them.
I think what Warp 12 actually intended was that the Repugnicans and (in his mind) "right thinking" centrist democrats will see this as "some sort of government overreach" and will unite to scuttle it.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:32 AM   #32
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There is a fake video going viral claiming that twelve F22 pilots and 15 bomber pilots resigned because of the vaccine mandate. It originated with a misinformation website called Real Raw News and has been retweeted by QAnon and MAGA idiots including Fox's Lara Logan:

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2QC25J

It is not true. No pilots have resigned due to the mandate.

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Old 11th September 2021, 12:47 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Hell, even Trump attacked some Democratic woman as an anti-vaxxer.

That was because Trump is an anti-vaxxer.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:48 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
Generally, they aren't, that I can tell. The "you can't tell me what to do with my body!" folks have traditionally been liberals.

I have family/friends all over the political spectrum, and what bothers me is this: the slammed to the left liberals are all "yeah this is great because Biden!" while those slammed to the right are "this is BS because Biden!"

And I guarantee you that if this had happened while Trump was president, the reactions would be completely flipped. So typical. There is no even semi-objective analysis, no thought processes at all really, involved with extremists; it's just "my side is always right and the other side is always wrong!" BS. So when it comes up I just sort of nod and go "yeah whatever" and change the subject.

Generally, I favor this. Not because Biden. Because it makes sense. People don't have the "right" to endanger other people's lives. i.e. eff off you alt-med screwballs.
An alternative fact based post if ever there was one.

I can guarantee you no one on the left side of the aisle wants a vaccine because Biden is POTUS and they certainly would still want one if Dump was in office. The biggest difference would be Dump would likely have screwed up the difficult roll out and some of us would have had to wait longer.

There are plenty of Dump supporters that are not buying into the nonsense about their freedumbs. It's very likely more than half the GOP legislators have been vaccinated. Fox news mandated staff get vaccinated.

It's not a political issue for most people, it's a no-brainer fact based issue.

And if you think it's all about which POTUS you support I'd guess you are a right-winger projecting your alt-reality on everyone else. You imply you are not and you would fall into that category of a Dump supporter that has chosen common sense when it comes to the vaccine for this disease.

I await your correction telling me you aren't a Dump supporter or whatever. But if you have misread liberals that badly then you can't be one of them. No one is a Biden cultist the way some idiots are Dump cultists. We're just glad a guy with experience and a brain is in charge now to clean up after the last 4-year nightmare.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I think what Warp 12 actually intended was that the Repugnicans and (in his mind) "right thinking" centrist democrats will see this as "some sort of government overreach" and will unite to scuttle it.
If so, then he's wrong. The majority of Americans are in favor of the vaccine mandates.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:51 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If so, then he's wrong. The majority of Americans are in favor of the vaccine mandates.
Of course he is...
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Old 11th September 2021, 01:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hopefully these vaccine mandates will create some unity between the two parties.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...c4c1b62aae.jpg
Hopefully, Republicans will keep resisting the vaccine in swing states and districts.

ETA: The 527s should be running Ivermectin ads in North Miami/Doral and the I 4 Corridor between Tampa and Orlando.

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Old 11th September 2021, 03:08 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
And I guarantee you that if this had happened while Trump was president, the reactions would be completely flipped. .
I guarantee you that it would not.

There is no Democrat "cult of personality" with blind loyalty to a Dear Leader. There are a lot of Democrats who do not go along with many of Biden's plans and ideas. If Democrats were blindly following Joe Biden as some kind of leftist pseudo-Trumpist "Dear Leader" they way you seem to think - stupid road-blocks like Kyrstyn Sinema and Joe Manchin wouldn't exist, and Chuck Schumer would already have had the Senate ditch the filibuster, and had both the full, original Infrastructure Bill and the Voting Rights Act already passed and signed into Law by Joe Biden.

As for vaccine acceptance, believers in science, and medicine are far more prevalent on the left than on the right. Education levels in "hard subjects" are also generally higher on the left than the right. The right really are the side of science-denial, climate-denial and conspiracy theories. It was clear and obvious right from the outset that Democrat voters were predominantly supportive and accepting of the vaccines, and pretty much understood that it was developed by scientists and not by Bozo the Clown at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
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Old 11th September 2021, 03:26 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The worst part is that NONE of this ever needed to happen. The US Covid=19 death totals could have been as few as 5,000 or less if there had been a competent president in the White House at the time of virus first hit - a president who followed the science, listened to the medical experts and acted on their advice.
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:23 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post

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