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Old 30th September 2021, 08:31 AM   #1
d4m10n
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MAGA / GOP terrorism

After the assault of the Biden bus and the events of Jan 6th, there was a moment where I succumbed to irrational optimism, thinking that the Republican Party might well fully reject the use of domestic terrorism to further their political goals.

Recent events have helped me to overcome this Pollyannaish POV.

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I expect more such incidents in the run-up to 2022.
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:06 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
After the assault of the Biden bus and the events of Jan 6th, there was a moment where I succumbed to irrational optimism, thinking that the Republican Party might well fully reject the use of domestic terrorism to further their political goals.

Recent events have helped me to overcome this Pollyannaish POV.

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I AGREE


I expect more such incidents in the run-up to 2022.
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:12 AM   #3
Upchurch
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
Odd flex. Are you comparing free speech and/or protests to physical violence and throwing literal bombs?
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Odd flex. Are you comparing free speech and/or protests to physical violence and throwing literal bombs?
I'm saying that matches the description of the Biden bus incident.
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I expect more such incidents in the run-up to 2022.
Such incidents never stopped and are happening now. The extreme right is continuing to throw violent street rallies all along the West Coast and still receiving preferential treatment from local police. Groups and individuals that will be responsible for political violence in the immediate future are out there as we speak, proving their methods and growing more emboldened by lack of meaningful police response.

Quote:
Clashes are increasingly part of daily life in Portland, a city that, by the looks of it, is the nation’s leader in per capita ownership of body armor and gas masks. But while it would be easy to write this off as ‘Portland being Portland’ — a city George H.W. Bush nicknamed “Little Beirut” — that would be a mistake. The bloody tactics workshopped in Portland have already cropped up around the country, from Charlottesville to anti-mask protests to January 6th. The Proud Boys have no intention of going away, their critics have no intention of backing down, and where this ends is anyone’s guess. As U.S. representative and far-right extremist Paul Gosar put it at an Oath Keeper gathering when asked about a potential second civil war: “We’re in it. We just haven’t started shooting each other yet.”
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...ading-1224762/
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:38 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm saying that matches the description of the Biden bus incident.
I don't understand. Didn't they end up running into the Biden bus? Wasn't that also a violent confrontation and not merely an act of free speech or protest? How does that match up?
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I don't understand. Didn't they end up running into the Biden bus?
IIRC they ran into one of the smaller vehicles accompanying the bus.
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Old 30th September 2021, 10:46 AM   #8
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It's only violence if anyone but Republicans do it.
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Old 30th September 2021, 10:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
I notice there were no "enemies of America" or "Second Amendment solutions" type of comments. And no one followed up with an incendiary device.
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Old 30th September 2021, 10:51 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
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Old 30th September 2021, 11:52 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Such incidents never stopped and are happening now.
To be clear, I meant incidents where someone deliberately targets a political party, campaign, or official.

If, say, Proud Boys and Antifa were to beat the **** out of each other on the outskirts of CHAZ, that isn't really what I'm getting at.
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Old 30th September 2021, 12:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
To be clear, I meant incidents where someone deliberately targets a political party, campaign, or official.

If, say, Proud Boys and Antifa were to beat the **** out of each other on the outskirts of CHAZ, that isn't really what I'm getting at.
While you may not care about them duking it out with antifascists, they are increasingly targeting non beligerrents, like school boards and other local government, specifically regarding anti-mask and anti-CRT extremist stances.

For example, 3 schools had to enter lockdown when a bunch of Proud Boys, among others, held a big rally outside the building and tried to enter the building.

Quote:
Vancouver Public Schools officials confirmed on Friday that the Skyview High School, Alki Middle School and Chinook Elementary were put in lockdown after members of the far-right Proud Boys tried to gain access to school grounds, according to witnesses.

Pat Nuzzo, communications director for the district, called the lockdown’s a “safety precaution.”
https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/...testers-entry/

There is no reason to believe fascist elements will be content to strictly target other willing combatants. The tactics and organizations that are forming in these street skirmishes are the same that will be used to target government offices and other soft targets.
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Old 30th September 2021, 01:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I don't understand. Didn't they end up running into the Biden bus? Wasn't that also a violent confrontation and not merely an act of free speech or protest? How does that match up?
Ziggurat only supports free speech for Republicans and Trump supporters.
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Old 30th September 2021, 01:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
While you may not care about them duking it out with antifascists, they are increasingly targeting non beligerrents, like school boards and other local government, specifically regarding anti-mask and anti-CRT extremist stances.

For example, 3 schools had to enter lockdown when a bunch of Proud Boys, among others, held a big rally outside the building and tried to enter the building.



https://www.opb.org/article/2021/09/...testers-entry/

There is no reason to believe fascist elements will be content to strictly target other willing combatants. The tactics and organizations that are forming in these street skirmishes are the same that will be used to target government offices and other soft targets.

Brownshirts!
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Old 30th September 2021, 02:25 PM   #15
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There is no reason to believe fascist elements will be content to strictly target other willing combatants.
Yes, that's precisely what I'm worried about, except that I think the threat is vastly broader than those who identify with or even check the usual boxes for fascism. One need only accept the big lie to begin to believe that it's too late to work through the ballot box and resort to the ammo box instead.
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Old 30th September 2021, 04:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.
I'm saying that matches the description of the Biden bus incident.
Minimizing again, I see. So you're comparing people walking up to a politician and telling them "they're not welcome anymore" as equivalent to using cars and trucks to physically intimidate another vehicle on the freeway by surrounding it, trying to force it to slow down by driving slowly in front of it and tailgating it? Both of which can be ticketed road rage. You see that as equivalent to a truck swerving swerving into car and forcing it out of its lane?

video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1322546782572859395

Four people on the bus filed a lawsuit against 3 people in the Trump Train caravan:

Quote:
Bus driver Tim Holloway is one of the people now suing.

"They followed me, they followed me up the ramp. They got in front of me, they slowed me down. It was confusing and scary. Because I didn't know why they was there, or what they was trying to do," he said.
https://www.tpr.org/news/2020-11-02/...in-san-antonio

Quote:
At one point in a now-viral video, the driver of a white SUV attempts to closely tail the bus, but a black truck with a Trump flag rams it repeatedly after the SUV crowds into the truck’s lane. No injuries were reported.
Quote:
Eliazar Cisneros, who also drove through a crowd of protesters in San Antonio during September 2020, is listed as a defendant on the complaint according to CNN.
Cisneros also claimed to be the driver of the black truck that his the staff car on his FB page which he later deleted along with his videos of the event.
Quote:
“That was me slamming that (F word)…” Cisneros wrote. “Hell yea.”

Cisneros also celebrated the fact that his vehicle made it out of the incident entirely unscathed.
He later claimed he was the one who was being forced off.

Quote:
In September, he drove through a crowd of protesters in downtown San Antonio, and then followed them as they continued their march, according to witnesses. At the time, he told KENS 5 that the protesters should have been on the sidewalk.

Community advocate Denise Hernández was part of the group. She said protesters frequently walk in the street and that most cars carefully drive around them. But, Hernández said, Cisneros waited at a red light before revving his engine, speeding towards her and the group before, slowing and swerving between her and other protesters at the last moment.

“We were all a little shaken,” she said. “And he actually came by and drove around and started yelling at us again, so he was antagonizing us on purpose.”
Quote:
A public records search revealed previous criminal charges against Cisneros in Texas and Florida. Cisneros was arrested and charged for a DWI with blood alcohol content above 0.15% in September 2019. He’s still awaiting trial. In the ’90s, he was arrested and convicted for marijuana possession in Texas and placed on probation for driving with a suspended license in Florida after receiving multiple traffic tickets.
https://www.tpr.org/news/2020-11-02/...in-san-antonio

But that really "matches a the description of the Biden Bus incident", right?
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