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Old 5th October 2019, 11:08 PM   #41
Vixen
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I haven't read all the links here yet, but would suggest that along with the fact that red paint was almost certainly cheaper, and the not entirely unlikely idea that many farmers wanted their buildings to look nice, red tends to look better for longer than other colors on a barn. It's also easier for red to contain impurities or preservatives without discoloring. As barns weather and the paint wears off, it looks less shabby than it would if the barn were painted yellow or white. You start seeing yellow barns and the like in the Victorian era, but even then, red is more common.

Convention is a powerful incentive, of course, and it may be sufficient that the suppliers of paint did not provide cheap barn-quality paint in other colors. It takes a lot of paint to do a barn.

Here in Vermont many barns are unpainted, especially smaller ones and outbuildings that are not closely associated with a farmhouse. Many farms have outlying hay barns, sugar houses, and so forth that are far from the barnyard, and it's pretty rare to see a painted one.

The question may not be so much "what color do you paint your barn" as "if you're going to paint your barn, what color will you use?" This may be a little of a chicken-egg sort of question. Do you paint your barn red because red is what's available, or is red available because people prefer red?

In Sweden it has been painted Falun red since at least C16, possibly much earlier. People didn't buy tins of paint in those days. More likely people used the red earth and discovered their buildings were all the better for it.

Some suggest they were simply copying the king, who, determined to have as fine a palace as the rest of Europe, got himself a copper roof and all the nobles tried to copy this by using the Falun mixture, which I guess could look like copper from a distance if more burnt orange than red.

So, then there was mass migration to the USA and they took their farming skills with them. So far, we have established the practice is common in the Mid-West farming belt - exactly where they predominantly settle - but not in New York or Vermont. So, culturally, I put to you, it was the Swedes who showed y'all how best to do it.
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
If the Finns are Nordic, why aren't the Lapps? I rather think that Finland gets lumped in with Sweden & Norway u.s.w. out of inattention. Or maybe it's just geographically convenient.

But as to the general drift of this thread: Sir Richard Burton once called America an "Anglo-Scandinavian" country.* Trouble is, nobody else ever saw it that way, so far as my diffusely uncoordinated reading goes. And I doubt that there have ever been enough Finns in the New World to influence much of anything of a broad cultural nature.

(Swedes n Norwegians ditto. Well.... Okay, Prairie Home Companion had its running jokes about Norvegian bachelor farmers, and no doubt baffled many, many listeners who'd never heard of such critters.)

Burton famously worked on several books at a time, and incorporated chunks of unanalysed data into his texts for convenience. If he coined his phrase in a hurry, we can note that and continue on.

* In his book** about the Mormons? I think so; but see above about uncoordinated reading.

** City of the Saints.
Scandinavia is a geographical term. When people talk of 'scandinavians' they are often referring to blondness. In that respect, Finland is the blondest nation in the world (60%). Samis have slightly different DNA but in general are just as Swedish/Norwegian/Finnish as their brethren further south.

Or maybe you are talking about language. Norwegian is strongly derived from Swedish - once its masters - and Swedish was influenced by Danish (which it originally was ruled by). All these languages are like English, similar to German and of teutonic root, as is Dutch.

Finland's capital city is the second most northerly in the world, after Rejkyvik, Iceland.

So you need to explain in which way 'Finland is not nordic'.
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I would add that there may be a sort of sumptuary rule for red barns, as one often finds, in old colonial-era villages and the like, that although the agricultural barns and suburban carriage barns were either unpainted or red, the town carriage houses, which were often fancier and may even have included servants' quarters, were more likely to match the houses and be painted in white or off-white.

I still think that, although more recently red barns have become the rule simply because of the presumption that barns should be red, the underlying reason is probably that red paint goes on easily, holds up well, and covers well on old or weathered wood.

Once upon a time a dull red paint was very common. A lot of colonial furniture was painted with it too.
Ah, but the colonialists were the Brits who do not paint their barns red at all.
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Old 5th October 2019, 11:23 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
According to LiveScience:

Dutch farm myth is mentioned in the article.
Problem is, not all soil is red. Thus it is a facetious argument by whoever wrote the article, probably without even giving it any real thought but just trotting it out from some other ill-thought article.
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Old 6th October 2019, 05:44 AM   #45
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In these here parts, it's more common to see old weathered tobacco barns. If they were ever painted, you can't tell now. According to one article I saw, some 50K still stand in this neck of the woods (North Carolina). You can still see a few with old advertising signs either attached or painted on them. I'm not sure what cultural influences there are in the deep South on the whole traditional barn thing, although the painted ones seem to be mostly red.

Last edited by RoseMontague; 6th October 2019 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 6th October 2019, 07:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A poster claims the red barn is 'the traditional barn in the USA' and quoted an article claiming the early Dutch in the 1700's introduced the idea of a red barn in the USA.

...

So IMV the 'red barn' is only seen frequently in those parts the early Swede/Finns settled.

You might want to look into what "Dutch" actually means in the U.S. in the context of early settlers.
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Old 6th October 2019, 09:14 AM   #47
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I'm quite willing to accept that the red barn comes via the Swedes or similar influences. The first New England barns were probably not painted at all. When they were, they tended to be red, and it's reasonably likely that, as pointed out above, the reasons had to do with the ease of making a red paint that worked well and was cheap, followed by manufacture, which logically would be of the colors most likely to be sought. The kind of dark red often found in barn paint is also able to cover old weathered wood, so a barn that had stood for many years with no paint could be spruced up with red without worrying about perfect coverage. Red is a traditional barn color, for sure, but I suspect it became so by a series of events, initially easy to make and later both commonly accepted and easy to buy. If you're a farmer, and red paint costs half what white paint does, and covers in one coat, you'll paint your barn red, and a tradition is born of plain practicality.

I think it depends a little on how far back you go to establish what is "traditional." In the first New England settlements, it was pretty common for nothing to be painted, including houses. There's a kind of "Currier and Ives" mentality among historical commissions and the like to presume that all those old houses ought to be white with black or green shutters, and the barns ought to be red, but I think they're harking back to the mid-1800's, not the mid 1700's or earlier.

Not so visible any more, the tobacco barns of the Connecticut River valley were rarely painted. As noted above, one could once see row upon row of them, all raw or uncolored wood. Tobacco barns have articulated slats in the walls, which open for drying, and they would likely look quite odd if they were not painted both inside and out, including the slats' edges, a needless expense. There are few of these left now, as the main Connecticut tobacco crop, cigar wrappers, has largely vanished.
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Old 6th October 2019, 11:16 AM   #48
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And the little red schoolhouse must logically have been introduced by that immense influx of Scandinavians that washed over the whole of the US in days of auld lang syne, bringing millions of tons of powdered ochre with them.

And the ludefisk and loganberry pie that furnish every American table from sea to shiny sea.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:07 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
You might want to look into what "Dutch" actually means in the U.S. in the context of early settlers.
Yup.

Pennsylvania Dutch? Not very Dutch. Lots of German, Austria, Some Poland, Swiss, and more.

The actual Dutch and Swedes had already settled into locations stemming from their local former colonies.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:52 PM   #50
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I would not put too much historical weight on the customary trope of the "little red schoolhouse." Schoolhouses were not really all red, and since wear and tear and changing populations made the building and occupation of schoolhouses rather fluid, one cannot readily tell when they were all built. In places like rural Vermont, where many communities had regional one-room schools into the 1950's, few of the remaining school houses predate the mid-19th century, and most are, and were, white or some variant of white when they're not of stone or brick. The little red schoolhouse my father went to in the 1920's was yellow.
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Old 6th October 2019, 12:59 PM   #51
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For those unfamiliar, the Pennsylvania "Dutch" include, but are not limited to, the Amish of whom I wrote up-thread.

About 10 years ago my cousin was working for the American Red Cross collecting blood donations. One day I had to pick her up after a blood drive in a rural area, and she told me that they'd had a lot of Amish show up to donate. I said something about their speaking a dialect of German, and she said, "Some of them speak Dutch, too."

I started to say that that was a misnomer, but she continued, "Oh, no, one older lady told me she speaks Dutch."

I laughed and said, "Deutsch. The German word for 'German' is 'deutsch.'" She looked at me skeptically, but let the matter drop.

Then a few weeks later she was telling me about a co-worker of hers from the Netherlands. I said, "I hear they speak Dutch there."
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
For those unfamiliar, the Pennsylvania "Dutch" include, but are not limited to, the Amish of whom I wrote up-thread.

About 10 years ago my cousin was working for the American Red Cross collecting blood donations. One day I had to pick her up after a blood drive in a rural area, and she told me that they'd had a lot of Amish show up to donate. I said something about their speaking a dialect of German, and she said, "Some of them speak Dutch, too."

I started to say that that was a misnomer, but she continued, "Oh, no, one older lady told me she speaks Dutch."

I laughed and said, "Deutsch. The German word for 'German' is 'deutsch.'" She looked at me skeptically, but let the matter drop.

Then a few weeks later she was telling me about a co-worker of hers from the Netherlands. I said, "I hear they speak Dutch there."


Exactly. And indeed the word "Dutch" as it applies (in the Anglophone world...) to the population and language of the Netherlands is also from directly the same etymological root as "Deutsch".

The precise etymology is somewhat blurred and ambiguous, owing to the spread of Germanic tribes Westward into Britain, but in Dark-Ages proto-Germanic language (and, by adoption, into old English), the terms "diutisc", "duch", "dutch" or "deutch" simply meant "belonging to our group of people". The people of Germany at some point became commonly known (in both Germany and Britain) as the "Dutch" or "Deutch" - "Deutschland" was nothing more than the German term for "our country" - and the people of what we now know as the Netherlands (plus probably Belgium) became known as the "Low Dutch" or "Tiefdeutch".

By the late Middle Ages, the British had changes to referring to the whole area which now comprises Germany, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg as "Almany" (and the people and language as "Almain"), after one of the more prominent proto-Germanic tribes known as the "Alemanni". Quite why this name change was adopted into English is unknown, but it was probably at least in part due to the fact that France and various other countries already referred to this geography and peoples by a name derived from "Alemanni" - and of course in Frence, for instance, Germany is still known as Allemagne.

And then at some point, probably during the Medieval period, for some reason, the English-speaking world (i.e. Britain at that point) chose to adopt the term "Germany" and "German" for the country and people/language. "Germani"* was the name given by Roman colonisers to just one of several significant tribes who inhabited part of the land we now know as Germany (but interestingly, neither the word "Germani" itself, nor any word related to it, was ever used by the tribe to describe itself - the word "Germani" is thought to derive from a Latin word for "neighbour"....).

And so it's a mystery as to why the English-speaking world chose to ditch "Deutch"/"Dutch" (see what I did there ) for "Almany"/"Almain", and then in turn to adopt a name with a totally separate etymology to refer to these peoples (most of whom had little or no geographic, ethnic or cultural links to the original Germani tribe, which had never even referred to itself as "Germani" or anything similar...). There's some evidence that the peoples of part of what we now call Germany had begun to refer to their land as Germania in around the 16th Century, but in every other official capacity Germany always referred to itself with variants on the term "Deutsch". Likewise, it's a mystery as to why, when the Netherlands became a more separately-identifiable group of peoples and geography in the 14th and 15th Centuries, and then a separate nation state in the 16th Century, the English language chose to revert back to a variant on "Deutsch" - "Dutch" - to refer to the people and the language (though, again interestingly, the English term for the geography/nation itself didn't revert back to a variant on "Deutsch", preferring instead to employ "Netherlands" (= "low country/countries) or "Holland" (the name of just one of the provinces which ended up forming The Netherlands, but the one with which England had established the most trading and cultural links).

Small (but lengthy ) diversion now ended.......


* And Hitler - together with Himmler as an ardent believer - placed enormous store in extolling the racial, cultural and geographical virtues of the ancient Germanic tribes (i.e. those tribes which inhabited parts of the geography now comprising Germany), which is perhaps the biggest reason why he lionised Wagner - since Wagner's Ring Cycle recounted the heroic tales of various of these tribal myths. In fact, Hitler's grand plan, once he'd won WWII and firmly established the longevity of the thousand-year Reich, was to tear down much of Berlin and replace it with a planned capital built on an enormous scale (much of which was at least part-designed by Hitler himself). He planned to name the rebuilt capital "Germania" - which is somewhat ironic, given that the very term was only ever used by the Roman Empire and was never actually used by any Germanic tribes to refer to themselves
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Old 6th October 2019, 03:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
For those unfamiliar, the Pennsylvania "Dutch" include, but are not limited to, the Amish of whom I wrote up-thread.

About 10 years ago my cousin was working for the American Red Cross collecting blood donations. One day I had to pick her up after a blood drive in a rural area, and she told me that they'd had a lot of Amish show up to donate. I said something about their speaking a dialect of German, and she said, "Some of them speak Dutch, too."

I started to say that that was a misnomer, but she continued, "Oh, no, one older lady told me she speaks Dutch."

I laughed and said, "Deutsch. The German word for 'German' is 'deutsch.'" She looked at me skeptically, but let the matter drop.

Then a few weeks later she was telling me about a co-worker of hers from the Netherlands. I said, "I hear they speak Dutch there."
PA Dutch varies enough from traditional German to effectively be its own language. Its semi-famous for its odd placements when translated:

"Throw the horse over the fence some hay"
"Please throw father down the stairs his hat"

PA Dutch is dozens if not hundreds of different Germanic-based religions of one sort or another from basic Lutherans to Anabaptists, to Mennonite, Amish and Schwenkfelder. They almost all faced persecution at the hands of Catholic nations such as Austria. The Quakers in PA, having lots of land to settle after treaties with the Native Americans was sending out invites like crazy.
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Old 6th October 2019, 07:55 PM   #54
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A bit of a digression here. Long ago I knew a Quaker guy from the PA "Dutch" area, who married the daughter of a family of "black bumper" Mennonites. More conservative than Quakers, but not as anti-modern as Amish nor as communal as Hutterites, they did, however, eschew ornament and display. Or they were, at least, supposed to. But, he pointed out, they still showed off their social position by dechroming bigger and fancier cars than their neighbors.
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Old 7th October 2019, 05:39 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A poster claims the red barn is 'the traditional barn in the USA' and quoted an article claiming the early Dutch in the 1700's introduced the idea of a red barn in the USA.

However, it was red brick buildings the Dutch were fond of.

I believe the red barn tradition of the Mid-West of America, the 'US farm heartlands' have come directly from the large scale historical migration of Swedes and Finns who settled in the Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota areas in particular.


Because of the harsh winter and spring climate of the Old Country these early settlers were master builders and knew a thing or two about farmhouse building. Sweden, in particular, had a renowned copper mine in Falu, which meant the soil was rich in what Finns call 'punamaaltu' (red earth). This was also a rich ferrous mixture which turned bright red when oxidised by way of milk, linseed oil or even blood. The near miraculous effect of this 'red paint' meant it actually protected the wood from fungus and weather decay for a long long time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States

So IMV the 'red barn' is only seen frequently in those parts the early Swede/Finns settled.
It actually started when you asked for a citation that barns in the US were traditionally red. After this was provided to you from numerous posters, you tried to spin it that this was not true. So now in this thread, you have tried to save face and spin what was actually said.

By the way, my wife comes from a large German/Dutch farming community in Northwestern Ohio with many traditional wooden red barns. You can keep believing whatever you want, but you'll still be wrong.
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Old 7th October 2019, 06:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
* And Hitler - together with Himmler as an ardent believer - placed enormous store in extolling the racial, cultural and geographical virtues of the ancient Germanic tribes (i.e. those tribes which inhabited parts of the geography now comprising Germany), which is perhaps the biggest reason why he lionised Wagner - since Wagner's Ring Cycle recounted the heroic tales of various of these tribal myths. In fact, Hitler's grand plan, once he'd won WWII and firmly established the longevity of the thousand-year Reich, was to tear down much of Berlin and replace it with a planned capital built on an enormous scale (much of which was at least part-designed by Hitler himself). He planned to name the rebuilt capital "Germania" - which is somewhat ironic, given that the very term was only ever used by the Roman Empire and was never actually used by any Germanic tribes to refer to themselves
Its seems as though the early German Nationalist got a lot of there ideas from "The Germania" by the Roman Historian Taciticus. Among other things, his whole point was to say, "We Romans and decadent and Corrupt, just look at those pure noble savages up north!" One of his ideas was that the Germans were exceptionally pure blooded on account of the climate in Germania being so crappy no body else would live there.
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
A bit of a digression here. Long ago I knew a Quaker guy from the PA "Dutch" area, who married the daughter of a family of "black bumper" Mennonites. More conservative than Quakers, but not as anti-modern as Amish nor as communal as Hutterites, they did, however, eschew ornament and display. Or they were, at least, supposed to. But, he pointed out, they still showed off their social position by dechroming bigger and fancier cars than their neighbors.
With the possible exception of the Quakers, those groups all come from the same cultural/religious heritage with the basic rule being, "keep it simple". The look very much the same from the outside but the interpretation of "simple" varies quite a bit.
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Old 7th October 2019, 06:54 AM   #57
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My vote on redness of barns goes to the longstanding folk belief that cows are attracted to the color red.
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Old 7th October 2019, 10:14 AM   #58
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Some guy, Martti Asunmaa writing on the theme of art and architecture about the buildings history of North Ostrobothnia*, has this to say:

Quote:
The paint was the message

There are many trends in the exterior painting of buildings where the hierarchy of paints, especially red and white, is very interesting. The first color used on the walls of the houses was red earth , which in the 18th century painted the most valuable buildings, such as churches and town halls. The red soil later spread to the wealthiest houses in the church villages. So the church village in the north was called a paint village . Later, red soil spread to other villages. Only in remote areas in Northern Ostrobothnia can you still see the unpainted surface in the main buildings.

The red soil was followed by yellow soil and then light oil paint . They spread in the same order, displacing red soil from the main buildings, which in a way released red soil for lesser use: in outlying villages and in the color of outbuildings. Now, the painting of buildings has become so common that, as a rule, only Ladot (simple haylofts) are still gray.

Multi-paints were made before boiling. The range of shades was scarce but good. Nowadays, anyone can buy paints from hundreds of shades, which is why you can see the colors you choose with a bad taste.

Like the paint, the gardens spread from the upper social floors to the lower, e.g. from priests to ranch houses. Since free-range animals ate grass and trees around the houses, there was hardly any vegetation in the village landscape, as can be seen from old photographs. On the other hand, the garden was long regarded as a worldly vanity. The cultivation of commercial crops is also relatively new. For these reasons, gardens are still missing from many of the houses in the remote villages.
[google translate]


*North Ostrobothnia
Quote:
North Ostrobothnia[1] (Finnish: Pohjois-Pohjanmaa; Swedish: Norra Österbotten) is a region of Finland. It borders the Finnish regions of Lapland, Kainuu, North Savo, Central Finland and Central Ostrobothnia, as well as the Russian Republic of Karelia.
This is very interesting, as this part of Finland was never Swedish. King Magnus of Sweden in 1323 had made a treaty with Novgorod who at the time were the rulers (now known as Russia). This Treaty was called the Peace of Pähkinäsaari (an island of Lake Ladoga) (also known as Treaty of Nöteborg) and the Pähkinäsaari Line (border) effectively split the west of Finland as we know it today, from the east. In effect, the country to the north of roughly Vaasa and including Oulu was under the rule of Novgorod, whilst those south Sweden. This Swedish rule went on for 700 years so we can safely say the two cultures are historically intertwined up until 1809.

What we see here are Novgorodian-ruled Finns using red earth for their barns which seems to indicate it was a Finnish custom originally, which caught on with the Swedes. In the mass exodus to the USA in the hunger years, these migrants introduced the skills to the other settlers in the MidWest.
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Old 7th October 2019, 10:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
My vote on redness of barns goes to the longstanding folk belief that cows are attracted to the color red.
Bulls no likey red flags.
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Old 7th October 2019, 11:09 AM   #60
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So the argument as it seems to stand.
A. Red Barn in the US(primarily but not exclusively the Mid-west) are the result of cultural influences from Scandinavia.
B. Red bars in the US are a largely independent development due to the red paint being a useful preservative and relatively cheap.

Evidence for A. There are red barns in Scandinavia and the US and there are Scandinavian descended farmers in the US.
Evidence for B. Red pigmented paint is a useful preservative and was/is relatively cheap.

Seems like a wash, let your bias be the judge.

Side note, As I understand it, Scandinavia is a geographic and cultural description. Geographically, the Scandinavian peninsual is Norway and Sweden. Culturally, its Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Iceland. All those countries being closely culturally and linguistically connected. Iceland seems to be sometimes Scandinavian and sometimes not. The Nordics include those countries and Finnland. I suspect the Finns like to emphasize this to distance themselves from the Rus, who are named for a Swedish tribe centered in Kiev, I mention only because it should always be mentioned in case there are Russians reading.

Also, lets not forget that Finland doesn't actually exist so its a silly argument.
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/fi...dont-think-so/

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Old 7th October 2019, 11:54 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Some guy, Martti Asunmaa writing on the theme of art and architecture about the buildings history of North Ostrobothnia*, has this to say:

[google translate]


*North Ostrobothnia

This is very interesting, as this part of Finland was never Swedish. King Magnus of Sweden in 1323 had made a treaty with Novgorod who at the time were the rulers (now known as Russia). This Treaty was called the Peace of Pähkinäsaari (an island of Lake Ladoga) (also known as Treaty of Nöteborg) and the Pähkinäsaari Line (border) effectively split the west of Finland as we know it today, from the east. In effect, the country to the north of roughly Vaasa and including Oulu was under the rule of Novgorod, whilst those south Sweden. This Swedish rule went on for 700 years so we can safely say the two cultures are historically intertwined up until 1809.

What we see here are Novgorodian-ruled Finns using red earth for their barns which seems to indicate it was a Finnish custom originally, which caught on with the Swedes. In the mass exodus to the USA in the hunger years, these migrants introduced the skills to the other settlers in the MidWest.


Nothing whatsoever to do with the reason why barns are predominantly red in the USA

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Old 7th October 2019, 12:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Bulls no likey red flags.
Bulls (and cows) are colour blind to red, and it's the flapping and the taunting that they dislike. It's not the colour of the cape or the flag.
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Old 7th October 2019, 12:36 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Some guy, Martti Asunmaa writing on the theme of art and architecture about the buildings history of North Ostrobothnia*, has this to say:

[google translate]
Could you translate this author's qualifications? For all we know he's just some rando Finnish blogger with no more clue than anyone else, pulling it out of his ass.

Or just translate their citations. I'm not picky.
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Old 7th October 2019, 01:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Also, lets not forget that Finland doesn't actually exist so its a silly argument.
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/fi...dont-think-so/
Finland used to exist, but it was destroyed in the chaos following Chisugate.
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Old 7th October 2019, 01:15 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
It actually started when you asked for a citation that barns in the US were traditionally red. After this was provided to you from numerous posters, you tried to spin it that this was not true. So now in this thread, you have tried to save face and spin what was actually said.

By the way, my wife comes from a large German/Dutch farming community in Northwestern Ohio with many traditional wooden red barns. You can keep believing whatever you want, but you'll still be wrong.
So how come when you google 'German barns' they are not red, so it can't be anything to do with your wife's background.
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Old 7th October 2019, 01:24 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Could you translate this author's qualifications? For all we know he's just some rando Finnish blogger with no more clue than anyone else, pulling it out of his ass.

Or just translate their citations. I'm not picky.
Quote:
Martti Asunmaa (born 6 November 1934 in Alavus [1] ) is a Finnish history teacher and editor-in-chief. [1]

Asunmaa has worked as a history teacher and teacher trainer first at Muhos High School, then at Oulu Normal School. He was editor-in-chief of Kaltio magazine from 1973 to 1984 . [1]

Martti Asunmaa's spouse is university lecturer and politician Tytti Isohookana-Asunmaa [1] .
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martti_Asunmaa


https://apurahat.skr.fi/nimikkorahas...?numero=296005
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Old 7th October 2019, 01:33 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Finland used to exist, but it was destroyed in the chaos following Chisugate.
Hah, nothing as world-shattering as Aku-Ankka-Gate. Donald Duck was banned for not wearing trousers.

No-one has seen Aku or Finland since.
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Old 7th October 2019, 03:22 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So how come when you google 'German barns' they are not red, so it can't be anything to do with your wife's background.
Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pa+d...h=597&biw=1242

Searching for barns in Germany is going to get fewer red barns because you will get results from parts of Germany that did not have large immigration to what is now the USA. Several of the barns in your results were barn designs (half-timber-esque) that were not used in the future USA and may not have benefited from painting. There’s also local wood types to consider. PA farmers also may have had more concerns with fungal growth given that Pennsylvania is a much more warm and humid environment than most Germanic states.
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Old 7th October 2019, 03:52 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
And the little red schoolhouse must logically have been introduced by that immense influx of Scandinavians that washed over the whole of the US in days of auld lang syne, bringing millions of tons of powdered ochre with them.

And the ludefisk and loganberry pie that furnish every American table from sea to shiny sea.
Now if you were talking about Minnesota...…

I tried ludefisk once. Best description is it's at attempt at Sushi gone horribly wrong.
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Old 7th October 2019, 04:19 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So how come when you google 'German barns' they are not red, so it can't be anything to do with your wife's background.

A: Some of the results in your Google link ARE indeed red
B: Some of the barns in your Google link are not even in Germany.

Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Searching for barns in Germany is going to get fewer red barns because you will get results from parts of Germany that did not have large immigration to what is now the USA.
Searching for barns in Germany by googling "Barns in Germany" is a very imprecise way of going about it. Google ignores the word "in" and looks for pages with "Germany" and "Barns" in it. That is going to drag up a LOT of English language pages.

A better way do this is to actually go to the German langage Google Image search page....

https://www.google.de/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi&ogbl

....and search "Scheune", the German word for Barn

This is what you get

https://www.google.de/search?hl=en&t...&bih=549&dpr=1
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Old 7th October 2019, 11:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pa+d...h=597&biw=1242

Searching for barns in Germany is going to get fewer red barns because you will get results from parts of Germany that did not have large immigration to what is now the USA. Several of the barns in your results were barn designs (half-timber-esque) that were not used in the future USA and may not have benefited from painting. There’s also local wood types to consider. PA farmers also may have had more concerns with fungal growth given that Pennsylvania is a much more warm and humid environment than most Germanic states.

I notice in your link, the photos all seem to be of the same building, some kind of art project by someone interested in museums and 'hex' designs.

Yes, type of wood is likely to be a factor. In those days, before globalisation, multinationals and industry standardisation, people made do with the best they had locally. Hence, several Scottish towns situated on granite are largely built up on stone houses. The nordic countries are in the conifer belt and thus have built up a great love affair with pine, birch, beech and rowan. Timber-framed buildings were thus the norm, and still greatly in vogue in summer cottages. It's not to do with cheapness. All the latest modern luxury apartments have saunas included to the highest standards and they are all in beautiful pine wood. I imagine that red earth and pine go together like a horse and carriage. There is a known embiotic relationship between gill-type fungi and birch, pine and fir which tend to be found together bound by an underground intricately woven ecological network. By trial and error, primitive nordic man in the conifer belt discovered how living with nature sustained their own lives. Structures built painted with red earth seemed to miraculously last for an enormously long time, as well as being pleasing to the eye, especially against snowy landscapes.

I cannot see why the US MidWest being as it is geographically well below the conifer belt and with a natural prairie landscape would have adopted the habits of the nordics unless these people had set the example in the first place.

Canada is of the right latitudes and we do see this in their barns.
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Old 7th October 2019, 11:46 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
A: Some of the results in your Google link ARE indeed red
B: Some of the barns in your Google link are not even in Germany.



Searching for barns in Germany by googling "Barns in Germany" is a very imprecise way of going about it. Google ignores the word "in" and looks for pages with "Germany" and "Barns" in it. That is going to drag up a LOT of English language pages.

A better way do this is to actually go to the German langage Google Image search page....

https://www.google.de/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi&ogbl

....and search "Scheune", the German word for Barn

This is what you get

https://www.google.de/search?hl=en&t...&bih=549&dpr=1
Thanks, Smart Cooky. Can't see any red barns there.
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Old 8th October 2019, 02:10 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I can tell you that unpainted barns were relatively common in New York State when I was a kid. They usually looked grey from the weathering.
Unpainted but I bet not untreated.
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Old 8th October 2019, 02:59 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So how come when you google 'German barns' they are not red, so it can't be anything to do with your wife's background.
Exactly, which was your premise about why red barns are prevalent - due to the background of the migrating groups. Therefore, it is more likely to do with cost and availability. Nice self debunking though.
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Old 8th October 2019, 05:04 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
And the little red schoolhouse must logically have been introduced by that immense influx of Scandinavians that washed over the whole of the US in days of auld lang syne, bringing millions of tons of powdered ochre with them.

And the ludefisk and loganberry pie that furnish every American table from sea to shiny sea.
DING. DING. DING!

I've found something wrong on the Internet.

You mean lingonberry (Vaccinium vitis-idaea). Loganberries (Rubus × loganobaccus) are a completely different fruit -- and much more delicious.
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Old 8th October 2019, 06:34 AM   #76
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So, if Scandi immigrants came over to the US and found that red paint cost twice as much as blue paint, would we still have red barns?
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Old 8th October 2019, 07:00 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Unpainted but I bet not untreated.
/In many cases, yes, untreated. Bare weathered wood lasts well when the construction is right in the first place. A lot of those barns are made with vertical siding in rough sawn white pine or other local woods. Hemlock, for example, which can be ugly and hard to finish, but is very durable. You'll rarely see an old barn made with hardwoods other than chestnut for beams, not only because of the difficulty of sawing up hardwoods, but because many of the hardwoods were less durable in weather, more subject to rot and fungus.

As to red barns in the midwest which is below the conifer belt, that may be so, but it's also a place where few other materials come to hand for construction. The first prairie houses and barns were made of sod. But once you begin importing building materials, few practical options exist. It's either lumber or bricks, and bricks aren't practical for quick, cheap agricultural construction.
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Old 8th October 2019, 08:54 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So how come when you google 'German barns' they are not red, so it can't be anything to do with your wife's background.
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Really?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pa+d...h=597&biw=1242

Searching for barns in Germany is going to get fewer red barns because you will get results from parts of Germany that did not have large immigration to what is now the USA. Several of the barns in your results were barn designs (half-timber-esque) that were not used in the future USA and may not have benefited from painting. There’s also local wood types to consider. PA farmers also may have had more concerns with fungal growth given that Pennsylvania is a much more warm and humid environment than most Germanic states.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
A: Some of the results in your Google link ARE indeed red
B: Some of the barns in your Google link are not even in Germany.



Searching for barns in Germany by googling "Barns in Germany" is a very imprecise way of going about it. Google ignores the word "in" and looks for pages with "Germany" and "Barns" in it. That is going to drag up a LOT of English language pages.

A better way do this is to actually go to the German langage Google Image search page....

https://www.google.de/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi&ogbl

....and search "Scheune", the German word for Barn

This is what you get

https://www.google.de/search?hl=en&t...&bih=549&dpr=1


I trust you all remember that what a google search finds is heavily influenced by what google has learnt about you, so two people running the same search terms may get completely different results.
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Old 8th October 2019, 09:59 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Thanks, Smart Cooky. Can't see any red barns there.
I also see very, very few examples of barns that would be seen in the USA outside of a few early colonial towns on the East Coast.

Hint: The US didn't do much with half-timber and stone barns. At least not once past the Philadelphia borderline.
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Old 8th October 2019, 08:35 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
DING. DING. DING!

I've found something wrong on the Internet.

You mean lingonberry (Vaccinium vitis-idaea). Loganberries (Rubus × loganobaccus) are a completely different fruit -- and much more delicious.
a coupla fellahs to have a liddle talk wid youse.

Truth to tell, most things Scandinavian are hearsay to me. By the time the wagon trains reached Wyoming, most of the Svedes n Norskers had bailed. Nobody blamed them.

Our pies were made from buffalo berries. They weren't terribly popular.
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