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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 16th October 2019, 12:29 PM   #2681
Cabbage
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Or perhaps you just don't like the Prestige, and were trying to make him look bad for commenting in a reasonable response?
I don't think it was a reasonable response. He's also described his vote for Trump as "Flipping the Table", so yeah, I've suspected all along that theprestige knows Trump is crazy and is a bad president. The problem I've always had with him: That's precisely what theprestige wants for President.

I can't respect that. Sorry.
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Old 16th October 2019, 01:29 PM   #2682
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I don't think it was a reasonable response. He's also described his vote for Trump as "Flipping the Table", so yeah, I've suspected all along that theprestige knows Trump is crazy and is a bad president. The problem I've always had with him: That's precisely what theprestige wants for President.
To be clear: I don't want a crazy and bad president. I'm willing to consider putting up with one from time to time, depending on a range of other factors. Taking everything into account, I thought that Donald Trump was an acceptable risk for a couple of election cycles. I don't want someone like Trump in office in *every* cycle, but I think the country will be just fine for having one or two cycles of President Trump. After that, we'll see.

Quote:
I can't respect that. Sorry.
No need to apologize. I respect your frustration, anger, and even hatred for my electoral choices. I think those are totally understandable feelings. As long as you express your disagreement with me civilly and rationally, without insults or appeals to emotion, I have no objections to your dissent, even though I will probably continue to disagree with it.
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Old 16th October 2019, 01:41 PM   #2683
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
LOL! It's clear to you? Really, now?

I disagree.



QED
In the context of this thread, Cabbage, not overall. He may be a Trump supporter overall but he has clearly said that he has problems with Trump's behavior which is a subject of this thread. But that isn't enough, apparently. Telling him he should stop supporting Trump is just a cheap shot, it does nothing to do with the thread. We like on-topic responses, 'round these here parts.

Quote:
Considering the fact that he was asking "What do you really want from me?", I happen to think my answer was precisely on target.

As I said, I recommend you now get over it.
LOL!
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Old 16th October 2019, 02:11 PM   #2684
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
In the context of this thread, Cabbage, not overall. He may be a Trump supporter overall but he has clearly said that he has problems with Trump's behavior which is a subject of this thread. But that isn't enough, apparently. Telling him he should stop supporting Trump is just a cheap shot, it does nothing to do with the thread. We like on-topic responses, 'round these here parts.

LOL!
To be fair, I assumed all along that the actual topic of this thread was "now will you finally admit that you should never have voted for Trump?"

But Cabbage is conflating tolerance for Trump in the context of the overall trade-offs, and support for Trump as such. It wasn't something I felt very strongly about trying to correct yesterday, which I why I haven't followed up on it yet.

I actually really appreciate Cabbage's honesty in stating what he actually wants, directly to me. It's a breath of fresh air, compared to the passive-aggressive snark and dissembling that we usually get.

Cabbage, thank you for being direct and clear. I apologize for not giving you more credit for this sooner.
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:33 AM   #2685
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Psychology 101: Projection

realDonadTrump tweet

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Projection is a defense mechanism commonly used by abusers, including people with narcissistic or borderline personality disorder and addicts. Basically, they say, “It’s not me, it’s you!” When we project, we are defending ourselves against unconscious impulses or traits, either positive or negative, that we’ve denied in ourselves. Instead we attribute them to others. Our thoughts or feelings about someone or something are too uncomfortable to acknowledge. In our mind we believe that the thought or emotion originates from that other person.
How to Confront Narcissists' Lethal Weapon: Projection (Psychology Today, March 6, 2019)

Quote:
Essentially, all narcissists tell on themselves.
Projection is the process through which they reveal who they are and what they’re doing.
Through projection, they call you what they are. They accuse you of doing what they’re doing or planning on doing. They throw all the uncomfortable feelings onto you because they don’t want to deal with them. They throw their shame on you so they don’t have to deal with it. They make you feel guilty for who they are and what they’re doing because they’re unable to feel that guilt themselves.
So, essentially projection is an unconscious way of denying the existence of something inside oneself and attributing it to others, externalizing it.
Projection (The Narcissists’ Weapon that Can Be Used Against Them) (medium, July 15, 2018)
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:39 AM   #2686
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be clear: I don't want a crazy and bad president. I'm willing to consider putting up with one from time to time, depending on a range of other factors. Taking everything into account, I thought that Donald Trump was an acceptable risk for a couple of election cycles. I don't want someone like Trump in office in *every* cycle, but I think the country will be just fine for having one or two cycles of President Trump. After that, we'll see.
My take-away from your post is that you consider the Office of President not to be very important. That the powers of the White House are so curtailed that no occupant could do serious damage in four years.
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:47 AM   #2687
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
My take-away from your post is that you consider the Office of President not to be very important. That the powers of the White House are so curtailed that no occupant could do serious damage in four years.

I don't think he minds damage to government institutions.

The rather bizarre 'governments should do nothing' is in play. Which I find an odd attitude.
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:50 AM   #2688
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There is a lack of internal consistency when it comes to many Republicans: they want the Strongest Military in the World run by the Weakest Government.
You can't have one without the other.
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Old 17th October 2019, 11:15 AM   #2689
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
My take-away from your post is that you consider the Office of President not to be very important. That the powers of the White House are so curtailed that no occupant could do serious damage in four years.
Ah. That is not at all what I read in his post. Nothing made me think he did not think the Office of President to not be important.
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Old 17th October 2019, 11:30 AM   #2690
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is a lack of internal consistency when it comes to many Republicans: they want the Strongest Military in the World run by the Weakest Government.
You can't have one without the other.

The obvious solution is for the military to be run by the private sector. It's already going to be acting as a mercenary force in Saudi Arabia.
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Old 17th October 2019, 12:33 PM   #2691
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
The obvious solution is for the military to be run by the private sector. It's already going to be acting as a mercenary force in Saudi Arabia.
Well, it seems to work great for the private prison industry.
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:07 PM   #2692
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Trump's handling of the meeting of Harry Dunn's parents by having Anne Sacoolas in a neighbouring room shows something is missing in Trump's makeup, although in this case, I think he might have actually been trying to do something positive (for whatever reasons) but just has zero idea of what people feel and when it's appropriate.
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Old 17th October 2019, 01:24 PM   #2693
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Then there's this:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...teral-meeting/

His mind is definitely wandering. How safe is it to have someone with dementia with ultimate control over the nuclear launch codes? To say noting of the conventional military of the US.
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Old 19th October 2019, 10:49 AM   #2694
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Then there's this:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...teral-meeting/

His mind is definitely wandering. How safe is it to have someone with dementia with ultimate control over the nuclear launch codes? To say noting of the conventional military of the US.
He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place.
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Old 19th October 2019, 05:31 PM   #2695
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line.
That's a wonderful analogy that I'm definitely going to steal and make liberal use of.
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Old 19th October 2019, 06:14 PM   #2696
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
That's a wonderful analogy that I'm definitely going to steal and make liberal use of.
Be my guest.
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Old 20th October 2019, 02:42 AM   #2697
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Trump's handling of the meeting of Harry Dunn's parents by having Anne Sacoolas in a neighbouring room shows something is missing in Trump's makeup, although in this case, I think he might have actually been trying to do something positive (for whatever reasons) but just has zero idea of what people feel and when it's appropriate.
That's what happens when you don't have empathy.
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Old 20th October 2019, 01:02 PM   #2698
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Yup
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Old 20th October 2019, 01:42 PM   #2699
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's what happens when you don't have empathy.

For Trump, nothing is real. He's the star of a reality TV show, and ambushing guests would be standard reality TV fare.

Quote:
I mean, O.K., there is an actual person named Donald John Trump, with a human body and a childhood and formative experiences that theoretically a biographer or therapist might usefully delve into someday.
....

But that Donald Trump is of limited significance to America and the world. The “Donald Trump” who got elected president, who has strutted and fretted across the small screen since the 1980s, is a decades-long media performance. To understand him, you need to approach him less like a psychologist and more like a TV critic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/o...eality-tv.html


Quote:
This is the ultimate old-school reality TV idea, recognizable to anyone who has ever indulged. It’s mid-’90s, daytime-trash gold — that box in the corner of the screen where we see a guy’s girlfriend waiting to burst onto the set and confront him for sleeping with her sister. It’s that moment on a “Real Housewives” reunion episode when a minor character is trotted out just to catch one of the stars in a lie. Since Trump clearly was looking to sell reconciliation, not conflict, my mind went to a more contemporary example from the most recent season of “Queer Eye,” when Karamo, the near-caricaturishly kind and sincere lifestyle adviser, brings the man he’s making over to a restaurant for a surprise. The guy who shot him and put him in a wheelchair for life is waiting to meet him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...67e_story.html
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Old Yesterday, 12:24 PM   #2700
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theprestige,

Is there any behavioural threshold beyond which you'd think Trump should be medically investigated for fitness for office? If so, what would it be? If not, why, given that, some forms of dementia* involve impulsive violence?

*Picking the most obvious explanation for his continuing and accelerating decline
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Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM   #2701
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
For Trump, nothing is real. He's the star of a reality TV show, and ambushing guests would be standard reality TV fare.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/o...eality-tv.html



https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...67e_story.html

I'd been thinking along those lines too, but it still needs a lack of basic humanity.
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Old Yesterday, 12:35 PM   #2702
theprestige
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Angry

Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
theprestige,

Is there any behavioural threshold beyond which you'd think Trump should be medically investigated for fitness for office? If so, what would it be? If not, why, given that, some forms of dementia* involve impulsive violence?

*Picking the most obvious explanation for his continuing and accelerating decline
Specific behavioral threshold? No. Medically investigated for fitness? No.

I don't think it's ever necessary to compel the president to submit to a medical investigation. If it came to that, Congress can simply impeach him for refusing.

Conversely, under the 25th Amendment, Congress can empanel a medical board and use their recommendation as the basis for removing him from office due to incapacity. I think it would be unethical to sit on such a panel, but it seems clear to me that it would be legal to do so.

So no, I would not require a medical investigation. Either he's fit for office as provided in the 25th Amendment, or he's not. Either Congress agrees to impeach him, or they don't. And that's more than sufficient for me.

I mean, impulsive violence? That's enough to impeach and remove, right there, if that's what we want. No need to conduct a medical investigation.
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM   #2703
jimbob
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Specific behavioral threshold? No. Medically investigated for fitness? No.

I don't think it's ever necessary to compel the president to submit to a medical investigation. If it came to that, Congress can simply impeach him for refusing.

Conversely, under the 25th Amendment, Congress can empanel a medical board and use their recommendation as the basis for removing him from office due to incapacity. I think it would be unethical to sit on such a panel, but it seems clear to me that it would be legal to do so.

So no, I would not require a medical investigation. Either he's fit for office as provided in the 25th Amendment, or he's not. Either Congress agrees to impeach him, or they don't. And that's more than sufficient for me.

I mean, impulsive violence? That's enough to impeach and remove, right there, if that's what we want. No need to conduct a medical investigation.
Except that by the time the president has a spat it could be too late.

If someone is sufficiently ill that they wouldn't be allowed a concealed carry permit in many states, it seems odd to be happy with him having access to nuclear launch codes.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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