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1st July 2019, 02:52 PM | #521 |
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Not at all, Guede knew Knox had been dragged into it before she knew he had anything to do with it. For her to not mention he was there would have been an easily provable lie, as would Guede saying she was there. Neither were at that stage aware how the matter would play out.
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1st July 2019, 03:30 PM | #522 |
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Haha yes. And of course the satirical nature of that opening post covered off yet another one of the inventions of the pro-guilt crowd and the unthinking mass media who were desperate for racy, provocative copy: the idea that Knox was somehow merrily turning cartwheels in the police station while her friend lay dead in the mortuary, and that such callous and inappropriate bahaviour was in and of itself a pointer towards Knox's psychotic personality and probable guilt. As so very often, the truth appears to have been somewhat different. It seems that Knox was doing some yoga stretches in the police station to try to alleviate stress and cumulative tiredness. A police officer then came in and complimented Knox on her flexibility, and Knox showed him a couple of balance and posture exercises. But yes, round and round Escher's never-ending staircase we go. And with reference to Escher, can it be long before a pro-guilt commentator ties in another of his famous illustrations - that of water appearing to flow uphill - to accusations of Sollecito's father and "mafia fixes"......? |
1st July 2019, 04:19 PM | #523 |
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Oy vey.
We're fresh from Knox in Italy at an Innocence Project event, while guilter-nutters claimed she could not travel internationally. We're fresh from the ECHR finding that the calunnia conviction was a result of rights violations, while guilter-nutters claimed that that conviction would stand no matter what. No matter, all that is now forgotten! All that has evaporated, and the guilter-nutters have reached really deep into the bag of factoids. Now it's cartwheels and canoodling! Like someone here said, we've cycled back to Continuation #1 of this thread!!!!!!! We'll surely get to Continuation #56 if all the factoids get repeated..... ONE..... BY..... ONE..... |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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1st July 2019, 05:54 PM | #524 |
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You should try disguising your affection for Guede a little less clumsily. He "can't say anything just now"? About what? The Go Fund Me page TJMK is about to launch to help him self-publish his "memoirs"? Quennell and HarryRag fighting over who gets to adopt him post-incarceration?
Nothing stopped him from Methinks his "warning shot" would have been better fired by actually testifying during the Hellman trial directly against Knox & Sollecito about what took place in the cottage on the night of 11/1/07. Which never happened. Was that a coincidence? |
1st July 2019, 06:03 PM | #525 |
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Because nobody would have a delayed reaction when taken to the place her friend was brutally murdered, heh, Vix? Since you and Mignini believe the murder weapon did not come from that drawer, but from Sollecito's kitchen, why on earth would she react to THAT knife drawer?
<fx taps side of nose> He (and you) THINK you know who did it. The Supreme Court disagrees with you both. Yes, he'd do it all again....and he'd lose again. What kind of a diseased mind would want to imprison innocent people because their narcissism keeps them from admitting they were wrong? |
1st July 2019, 06:09 PM | #526 |
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1st July 2019, 06:20 PM | #527 |
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Wait a minute. I thought Amanda was setting up Guede to take the fall when she pointed out his crap in the toilet and his bloody footprint on the bathmat to the police? Add to that her leaving his visible bloody shoe prints in the hallway and his bloody palm print under Meredith's body. Oh, and don't forget the 'staged' break in that perfectly mimicked his break in of the lawyers' office.
"Thou shalt be consistent when pulling crap out of one's nether regions." |
1st July 2019, 06:27 PM | #528 |
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I realize you're trying to defend Mignini but please explain to me how obtaining body temperature put capturing DNA at risk? A small incision in the abdomen to insert a thermometer into the liver has zero chance of destroying potential DNA evidence. Hell, Meredith was face up so she didn't even need to be rolled over. Obtaining body temperature is standard procedures performed millions of times at crime scenes the world over. What was it about THIS crime scene that justified deviating from standard procedures?
Trying to suggest to much time had already passed does not in any way diminish the massive incompetence exhibited by waiting over nine hours after arriving to take body temperature. Had Lalli been allowed to take her temperature when he arrived, it would have been within 18 hours of her death, which would result in a much more accurate estimate than one based on a temperature taken within 27 hours of her death. This is indefensible. Funny how you claim that even if Lalli had taken her temperature as soon as he arrived it wouldn't lead to a very accurate estimate, and then in the same breath you suggest "we know" TOD within a two-hour time frame, even though body temperature was taken more than nine hours after he arrived. So which is it... would a much earlier test have resulted in a much more accurate estimate or, if not, how was TOD estimated within a two hour window when they waited over nine hours to take her temp? |
1st July 2019, 06:34 PM | #529 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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1st July 2019, 07:11 PM | #530 |
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What a silly post. As mentioned already, taking the body temperature ASAP is standard operating procedure for a very good reasons. It does NOT prohibit DNA collection.
What "two-hour time frame"? The TOD was put at between "9:00-9:30 PM and the early hours of Nov. 2." Maybe UK math is different? Got to love the " Closely connected to Knox and Sollecito switching off their phones" bit. They were turned off before 9:00 yet the prosecution claims the murder occurred about 11:00 -11:30. What were they doing between a quarter to 9 and 11:00? |
1st July 2019, 07:55 PM | #531 |
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Robert Glass, the idiot host of the "interview" I posted upthread is still talking about the "mixed blood" found "all over the roommate's room". Sheesh.
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1st July 2019, 09:25 PM | #532 |
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1st July 2019, 10:32 PM | #533 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 12:03 AM | #534 |
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2nd July 2019, 12:46 AM | #535 |
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The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else. |
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2nd July 2019, 03:05 AM | #536 |
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Your memory is better than mine on this. She spent a total of 3 years and 11 months in prison with the first year considered detention. The only thing I see on this is that Raffaele Sollecito asked for roughly 500K in compensation and that was denied. Whether Italy will handle this differently for Knox is questionable but I would love to see it happen.
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2nd July 2019, 03:12 AM | #537 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 03:16 AM | #538 |
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2nd July 2019, 06:40 AM | #539 |
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2nd July 2019, 07:16 AM | #540 |
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That's a good question. But a better one is, does the word "exonerate" have a legal (rather than colloquial) definition in US, UK, or other Western democracy different from "acquit" or "dismissal of charges"?
Here are some legal definitions: The following is from https://thelawdictionary.org searches on the specific terms; these reflect UK usage and may differ from US usage: EXONERATE To lift, remove the stain of being called out for blame, liability, or punishment. It is more that just freeing an accused person of the responsibility for a criminal or otherwise illegal or wrongful act. It is publicly stating that this accused should never have been accused in the first place. Refer to acquit and exculpate. ACQUIT When a person accused of a crime is legally freed by a court generally as a result of lack of evidence. This decision cannot generally be appealed unless in a special circumstance. Refer to exculpate [and] exonerate. EXCULPATE Removing blame or accusation from a person. Typically for a non-criminal act, like a traffic accident. There is nothing illegal or immoral or criminal in this action. Contrast and refer to acquit and to exonerate. The following are from https://definitions.uslegal.com searches on the specific term. Exoneration Law and Legal Definition Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent. .... The term exoneration is also referred in the context of surety bail bonds. In this case, a judge may order a bond exonerated, in such cases the clerk of the court time, stamps the original bail bond power and indicates exonerated as the judicial order. Acquittal Law and Legal Definition Acquit means to find a defendant in a criminal case not guilty. The decision to exonerate the defendant may be made either by a jury or a judge after trial. A prosecutor must prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A decision to acquit means that the judge or jury had a reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. It may be based on exculpatory evidence or a lack of evidence to prove guilt. Because of the constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy, once a defendant has been acquitted, he or she cannot be retried for the same matter. In some instances, a person acquitted of a crime may have arrest records expunged. Exculpate Law and Legal Definition The term exculpate means to clear of guilt or blame. When a person is pronounced not guilty of criminal charges the person is said to be exculpated. To exculpate means to free from accusation or blame for a blameworthy act. Exculpation does not imply the act was criminal or otherwise illegal or illicit. The term exculpate is employed in sense of excuse of justification. _____ Now, in Italian law, as far as I can ascertain, there is no use of the term "exonerate" in the sense the it is used in the US or (I think) in the UK, meaning (in one of its senses) "to find someone innocent (not guilty) after a previous conviction for the same criminal act". The equivalent of "exonerate" in Italian, according to Google translate, is "scagionare" and also "esonerare" (first meaning "exempt") or "discolpare" (first meaning "exculpate"). But the relevant legal term used in the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (Codice di Procedura Penale, CPP) appears to be "assoluzione" (meaning, "acquittal") as in "Sentenza di assoluzione", meaning "Judgment of acquittal", the title of CPP Article 530. More generally, the CPP uses the term "proscioglimento", meaning "dismissal [of an accused from a court case]" as in "Sentenza di proscioglimento" (meaning, Judgment of Dismissal), the title of the CPP Section including CPP Articles 529 through 532. However, according to Collins Reverso, "proscioglimento" can also mean "acquittal" or "exonerate". In the context of Italian law as written out in the CPP, the term "proscioglimento" is used more generally to include dismissals for any of the following: 1) the prosecution should never have begun or been continued (CPP Article 529); 2) the accused is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, attributable to one of several specifics, such as the accused did not commit the crime (Article 530); or 3) the trial is taking place after the expiration of the statute of limitations (Article 531). {Article 532 directs how the judge orders the release from detention of the accused who has been dismissed by one of the articles 529 - 531.} One must consider the differences in how Italian criminal law and trials are structured compared to US or UK law and trials (at least prior to the introduction in the UK of cases where a not guilty verdict may be overturned in exceptional cases). In the US and formerly in the UK, a verdict of "not guilty" could not be overturned nor appealed by the prosecution. In contrast, Italy uses a legal and judicial system where any verdict, including dismissals of any form (with perhaps one exception for certain pretrial dismissals) and even guilty verdicts, may be appealed by the prosecutor within a set time limit, except verdicts of the Supreme Court of Cassation cannot be appealed. Thus, it is routine in Italy for accused persons to be acquitted by a lower court yet to be convicted by a higher court, or to be convicted by a lower court and acquitted by a higher court. In Italy, all the trials are considered legally as one whole proceeding, until the final verdict. Thus, the word "exonerate" as used in the US, where it is constitutionally impossible for an acquitted person to be retried in the same jurisdiction for the same crime, and relatively rare for an accused person to be found guilty to be then acquitted by a higher court, is apparently not especially relevant. |
2nd July 2019, 07:46 AM | #541 |
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Originally Posted by Vixen
How can we compete with that!? What we're limited to, is reading testimony. The cop in charge that day was Napoleoni, who testified that the forensic medical team (8 people, is my memory of what N. had testified to) went into the murder room to tend to the deceased.... ... none of the 8 wore anti contamination clothing/booties. Yup. We can trust that the cops/PM/forensic medical team knew what they were doing. Some in this thread think Mignini had lied about Lalli to foment a conspiracy. It was more likely to cover rank incompetence. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 08:47 AM | #542 |
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To the above, I should add that in Italy after a final conviction, a convicted person may be able to have that conviction overturned by a revision procedure. The revision procedure may be requested only under allegations by the convicted person, or by a prosecutor, or both, that there is evidence of a miscarriage of justice under Italian law, including international law (final judgment of the ECHR). The kinds of alleged miscarriages of justice or evidence needed in order to make a valid request for revision are listed in CPP Article 630 and Italian Constitutional Court decision 113 of 2011.
It is perhaps this Italian revision procedure, when it results in a dismissal or acquittal (which must meet the requirements of one of the following: CPP Article 529, 530, or 531) that comes closest to the US concept of "exoneration" in that it overturns a final, rather than a provisional, conviction. Thus, if Amanda Knox's final conviction for calunnia is overturned by a revision procedure, that would be closest to the US meaning of exoneration. On the other hand, her final and definitive acquittal for the murder/rape charges, while overturning a provisional conviction by the Nencini Court of Appeal, while meeting the appearance of a US exoneration, is more a routine Italian exercise of the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation correcting a provisional court verdict of conviction. |
2nd July 2019, 10:34 AM | #543 |
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Come on, guys! Don't take away the PGP's last desperate claim! After all, they know that Marasca really wanted to confirm the conviction but, sadly, just didn't have quite enough evidence.
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2nd July 2019, 10:59 AM | #544 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:04 AM | #545 |
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I can't help wondering if liver temperature is a more modern way (it's mentioned in a Yrsa crime novel I'm reading) but then, in 2007, rectal temperature was standard. In DD it is mentioned that Mignini was loath to move the body until the forensics had been gathered. Stefanoni and her team were already there so it made sense for them to continue.
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:07 AM | #546 |
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That's the trouble with these corrupt judges, it is that they have no spine. Despite "knowing" that the pair were guilty, Marasca was weak when it came to assessing evidence, esp. when the assembled facts **still** didn't convict the pair.
It's as if Marasca should have done what all the guilter-nutters used to do - determine someone's guilt from a picture. **THEN** shift through factoids to buttress the bias. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 11:09 AM | #547 |
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You don't understand the difference between the vernacular use of language and the legal. One means anything you want whereas Suspect(= arguido) has a very specific legal meaning in the Latin countries.
I know it's difficult. Just think of fluffy kittens and bunnnywabbits. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:12 AM | #548 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 11:12 AM | #549 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:15 AM | #550 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:16 AM | #551 |
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Very witty.
All except you lay out what you believe are legitimate reasons for Mignini to have suspected someone of a crime, you ignore that 3 1/2 days later Ficara brings this person into an **interrogation room**, and suddenly you deny they are a suspect. It's got nothing to do with colloquialisms. It's got everything to do with how the cops **behave** based on that belief. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 11:24 AM | #552 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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2nd July 2019, 11:29 AM | #553 |
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2nd July 2019, 11:36 AM | #554 |
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The ECHR referred to Boninsegna. It was under the impression that Knox was 'under a criminal charge' as of the time complained of, remembering the interview was immediately terminated when she named Patrick.
What criminal charge was she under? Perhaps they referred to Bill Williams for their definition of 'suspect'. |
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2nd July 2019, 11:38 AM | #555 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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2nd July 2019, 11:40 AM | #556 |
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2nd July 2019, 12:37 PM | #557 |
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2nd July 2019, 12:40 PM | #558 |
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No, Vixen. The ECHR looked at the entire set of evidence. I appreciate this latest attempt at misdirection though! And it's extremely instructive that you think someone has to be "under a criminal charge" for them to be considered a suspect. Ignorance indeed. But not at all unexpected. Lastly, the ECHR used Italy's own definition of suspect in formulating their judgement. You really ought to read it some time, rather than spouting off mendacious nonsense. It might help with the old "credibility" thing. Just a suggestion. |
2nd July 2019, 12:41 PM | #559 |
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2nd July 2019, 12:54 PM | #560 |
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This is not true on two counts. First, by Mignini's own 2010 accounting of the interrogation, he himself continued after "the naming of Lumumba". He even said that he, himself, would conduct the interrogation from that point onwards acting "as if only a notary".
Why you think you can get away with these factoids of yours is beyond me. Oh yes, the second count is that both before and after the Lumumba SMS was cited, both were **interrogations** against someone they eventually claimed they **knew** was a suspect..... ..... which, acc. to the cops' narrative, she eventually "confirmed" when she "buckled" and told them what they already knew! Your theories are not even sustained by the cops or Mignini! |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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