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26th June 2019, 02:49 PM | #321 |
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Note the way this KrissyG character slides in "mixed blood" through the back door, using rhetorical sleight-of-hand.
Heavens, even Harry Rag eventually dropped "mixed blood" from his cut-and-paste comment-bombing of every Knox-related online story. Once the smoke clears from this latest ECHR-related exoneration, KrissyG and Peter Q will simply cycle-back to all those long-since debunked factoids. Too bad KrissyG doesn't post here, we'd make it to the 50th continuation for sure!!!! |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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26th June 2019, 03:11 PM | #322 |
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Yes, I noticed the 'mixed blood' bit. I wasn't surprised.
Krissy G, Quennell, and the couple other remaining cult members who bother to comment will eventually fade away into the obscurity I think they fear. Their halcyon days of relevancy and importance are long gone. I'll be sad when they stop completely as...damn...they're entertaining! |
27th June 2019, 09:02 AM | #323 |
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There is no "there" there
With the ECHR decision now final and binding on Italy, the last of any issue related to either Raffaele Sollecito or Amanda Knox is gone. For all practical purposes, they are exonerated, and there is now officially no reason to even suspect them of anything in relation to the horrid events of Nov 1/2, 2007 in Perugia.
It has always unofficially been this way, but now - officially - there is no "there" there, and there never was. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 10:58 AM | #324 |
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And for all official purposes.
The ECHR GC Panel, by its decision, confirms that the Chamber judgment in Knox v. Italy is final. Thus, under international law, Italy is obligated to redress its violations of Knox's rights. According to the ECHR Chamber judgment, Italy's conviction of Knox for calunnia violated provisions of international law - the European Convention of Human Rights, Articles 6.1 with 6.3c and with 6.3e - and Italy is therefore obligated to dismiss, in a way compatible with the Convention and ECHR case-law, that conviction. |
27th June 2019, 12:20 PM | #325 |
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27th June 2019, 01:04 PM | #326 |
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Yes, she did. But remember that she is also the legal eagle who claimed that Amanda's appeal to the ECHR was inadmissible because she had not exhausted all legal avenues in Italy. She also claimed that the Marasca Court had gone beyond its legal remit and should have sent it back to an appeal court.
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27th June 2019, 01:15 PM | #327 |
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I have to say that, as serious and sad as this whole horrible murder / investigation / wrongful-conviction saga has been, I still reserve the right to chuckle at the ever-more-desperate contortions of the mental midgets and vindictive saddos of the pro-guilt "community" as everything they allowed themselves to (wrongly) believe for so long has unravelled in front of their eyes. In fact, I'm still waiting with bated breath for the latest (and probably last) attempt at rationalisation in respect of Italy's confirmed total defeat at the hands of the ECHR over the final outstanding aspect of this case. Actually, I realise now that it won't be the last: the pro-guilt nutters are already salivating over what Mignini apparently plans to say once he retires (not that his opinion carries the tiniest scintilla of weight or relevance at this point of course....); and they are also desperate for Guede to somehow implicate Knox and/or Sollecito once he's released (though again it won't make the slightest jot of difference, and additionally the nutters are too over-invested to realise that it would be entirely self-serving of Guede as sole assailant to continue to claim that it was Knox and/or Sollecito who actually did the deed). |
27th June 2019, 01:29 PM | #328 |
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27th June 2019, 01:32 PM | #329 |
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Re: the charges which had been leveled against Mignini, the charges he was subject to while himself leading the initial prosecution of S & K in Perugia: Note: (I am not id'ing the author, but long time readers/posters here can readily guess.) Re: the Hellmann/Zanetti ploy to give the defence's failed DNA criticisms from the first trial, some level of respectability by dihonestly appointing Vecchiotti to review Stefanoni's work: That Vechiotti, Hellmann, and then-President of the Perugian Appeals Court, Wladimiro de Nunzio are criminals:
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 01:48 PM | #330 |
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Lovely stuff!
You know, Bill, in the white heat of the constant attritional posting frenzies during those times.... .... I think we on the correct side in this case actually neglected so often to see just how unhinged and bizarre so many of the "arguments" from the wrong side in this case truly were. But by revisiting some of those choice posts above, and especially viewing them in hindsight and in somewhat quieter times, it's just so horribly obvious. Wow. |
27th June 2019, 02:10 PM | #331 |
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So who are the parties involved? Italy and the ECtHR obviously, but it surely it requires the input of Amanda and her lawyer since the judgement is in their favour, they now call the shots. Also, how can we monitor the events as they unfold? Are any of the parties obliged to make things public? I get the feeling we might be going into some sort of media twilight zone with this.
Hoots |
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The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else. |
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27th June 2019, 02:11 PM | #332 |
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My favourite was #3:
Quote:
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 02:31 PM | #333 |
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27th June 2019, 02:33 PM | #334 |
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Am I the only one to be in a sort of cognitive dizz over the ECHR judgement now being confirmed? For the past 12 years we have agonised over this case that owed more to Kafka than it did to justice, and now by the actions of Anna Donnino who acted improperly at the very start of the proceedings, the case against Amanda may possibly be vacated. Jeez! vacated to me, means that it didn't exist in the first place. Does that mean we are all vacated too? Does that mean that the stunningly awesome team that sprang like a lotus on the IA forum is now non-existent? A significant part of my soul has been invested in this case, I'm not too sure if I want it to be vacated just yet.
Hoots |
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The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else. |
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27th June 2019, 02:46 PM | #335 |
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Number 3 was a good one but I'll go with #2:
Quote:
Got to love these:
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27th June 2019, 02:49 PM | #336 |
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27th June 2019, 03:43 PM | #337 |
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Funnily enough, my old man was a freemason. He asked me in my teenage years if I wanted to join in order to broaden my horizons, I could have done, but in the end I told him to fech off! I'd rather live my life according to my own principles rather than succumb to freaky handshakes. I haven't done too badly.
Hoots |
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The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else. |
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27th June 2019, 04:02 PM | #338 |
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27th June 2019, 05:34 PM | #339 |
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Once again the point completely bypasses you. Guede was only 'South African' within the context of supporting South Africa against England at the World Cup Rugby Final when bantering with Mez, who obviously supported England.
So no, Guede had zero reason to claim he was South African to either Knox or Silenzi (who, further, was a good friend of his, so he had no need to break-in on Filomena's side as he would have known the far easier balcony side). When Knox referred to a 'short South African guy' in the basketball court she would have got the South African info from Mez and knew perfectly well who Guede was. She lied that he was 'short' because she was trying to incriminate Patrick who was relatively short and stocky. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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27th June 2019, 05:37 PM | #340 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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27th June 2019, 05:44 PM | #341 |
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Two last ones from the source which I refuse to name.
First is the theory this guy had which most directly relates to the recent ECHR finding that Italy had violated Knox's rights at interrogation. This (it seems) binds Italy to correct the miscarriage of the calunnia conviction.... but this is what (way back when) our friend had said was iron-clad: He also said that part of his reason for blaming Knox for the Lumumba accusation, was that she had not been "worn down" by lack of sleep, exhaustion, or being kept awake in the middle of the night by being called (repeatedly) a liar. He wrote this in 2013, when he said that Knox could choose not to sleep, which he deduced from analyzing her writings, and therefore was ready and fresh to face the challenge of an interrogation. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 05:46 PM | #342 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 05:46 PM | #343 |
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You can scoff but Perugia is riddled with freemasonry. Wink and a nod, fixed it for you.
If anyone cannot see that Knox and Sollecito's annulment was not a fix of the highest order they must be some kind of conspiracy theorist that holds Knox was picked on for being a promiscuous American. For all the hundreds of thousands of pounds Knox' family spent on PR (in her deposition to the ECHR she puts the figure she owes her parents at €2.4m) when most likely it was Raff's father's connections via Bongiorno that got the pair off. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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27th June 2019, 05:50 PM | #344 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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27th June 2019, 05:52 PM | #345 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 05:54 PM | #346 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 05:59 PM | #347 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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27th June 2019, 06:00 PM | #348 |
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Ah, so it must have been Mignini's links to Opus Dei and other shadowy quasi-masonic Catholic secret brotherhoods which led to Knox's and Sollecito's "fix of the highest order" Massei-court convictions in the first place..... See, Vixen, you and your fellow pro-guilt conspiracy theorists cannot have it both ways. When it suits you, you declare that the Italian judiciary is world-class. But when it doesn't suit you (i.e. in respect of every judicial decision which was not for guilt, up to and including the Marasca Supreme Court panel and the European Court of Human Rights), you are quick to throw around (entirely evidence-free, of course....) accusations of court-nobbling - which you appear to think can happen with consummate ease if desired. Kind of reminds me of the good old "Captain Amanda / Hapless Amanda" dichotomy which once again saw pro-guilt commentators talking out of both sides of their mouths in a gloriously self-contradictory manner, in order to suit their pre-formed agenda. So strange. And entirely out of line with the concept of "critical thinking". But we've long come to expect that. Still: flail away by all means!! |
27th June 2019, 06:01 PM | #349 |
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27th June 2019, 06:15 PM | #350 |
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Uhhhhhhh 1) Do you know (or do you not know? You do not know) that the USA is neither a member of the Council of Europe, nor is it a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights? 2) Did you know (or did you not know? You did not know) that the ECHR's interventions wrt the preacher Abu Hamza (not "Al-Hamzi" - why do you appear to show a cavalier disregard for getting names so wrong so frequently, Vixen?) were solely to do with his extradition from the UK (where he was being held in custody) to the US (where he faced terrorism-related charges)? The ECHR delayed his extradition purely in order to receive assurances from the US authorities that he would not face the death penalty and that he would not be held in inhumane conditions or subjected to torture etc. The ECHR did not adjudicate that Abu Hamza's human rights had been violated in any way, let alone that they'd been violated in the course of an investigation or trial process. So you see, Vixen, the Abu Hamza case and the Knox case are hugely, hugely different in terms of the role played by the ECHR and the judgements issued by the ECHR. If you'd bothered to do any proper research (and you never tire of claiming outstanding research rigour....) you'd have been able to see that. But no, let's not let the facts get in the way of a gross distortion to support a jaded "argument", eh....? |
27th June 2019, 06:28 PM | #351 |
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No it doesn't, you are correct. Sovereign states are sovereign states after all.
In this case, though, as a signatory to the Council of Europe, Italy seems to be treaty-bound to revise the conviction. As LondonJohn says, you have no idea what just transpired, do you? No fear, though, if I had not read Numbers' stuff, I'd be in the dark, too. Indeed, I've read Numbers' stuff, and it still is a learning curve for me, so be patient, you'll eventually get it. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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27th June 2019, 07:10 PM | #352 |
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What has bypassed you is that I was referring to the article by KrissyG on TJMK which stated (and which I previously quoted):
Quote:
Guede was a known liar who claimed to be American at times to girls and, according to Krissy G, claimed to be S.African to Meredith. Why do you find it impossible that he told the Italian boys or even Amanda that he was S.African? Guede says when he met up with the boys, Meredith and Amanda the night they went to the cottage, Amanda mentioned she was from Seattle. It would have been quite possible that Guede responded "I'm from S. Africa." However, Stefano Bonassi also told police that Guede was S. African according to Follain:
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[/quote]
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See what happens when you just make up crap? The facts tend to get in the way. |
27th June 2019, 07:11 PM | #353 |
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27th June 2019, 07:21 PM | #354 |
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Would you care to provide evidence that Freemasons "fix things" by interfering in court cases?
Quote:
HOLY MOLY! |
27th June 2019, 07:34 PM | #355 |
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27th June 2019, 08:00 PM | #356 |
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1. Regarding the ECHR judgment, final as of 24 June 2019, in Knox v. Italy, it is Italy which has the obligation under international law (the Convention and ECHR case-law) to redress its violations against Amanda Knox in unfairly convicting her of calunnia against Patrick Lumumba. The redress measures that Italy must take under international law to abide by the final judgment of the ECHR consist of three elements: 1) payment of the just satisfaction and costs as laid out by the ECHR judgment, 2) carrying out individual measures to restore, insofar as possible, Knox to her condition prior to Italy's violations of her rights, and 3) carrying out general measures, such as changing practices or laws, to prevent any future occurrence of such violations. Italy's performance of these redress measures will be carried out, according to the Convention, under the supervision of the Committee of Ministers, who meet quarterly, and more specifically and frequently, by the CoM Deputies in charge of the Council of Europe's Department for the Execution of Judgments of the European Court of Human Rights. The latter has a home website at:
https://www.coe.int/en/web/execution The Department summarizes its function as follows: "The Department for the Execution of Judgments of the European Court of Human Rights advises and assists the Committee of Ministers in its function of supervision of the implementation of the Court’s judgments. It also provides support to the member States to achieve full, effective and prompt execution of judgments." Source: https://www.coe.int/en/web/execution...the-department The process followed by the CoM and the Department for Execution of Judgments is summarized as follows: "Member states have undertaken to comply with final judgments of the European Court of Human Rights (the Court) finding violations of the European Convention of Human Rights (the Convention), as well as with Court decisions taking note of friendly settlements (see Articles 46 and 39.4 of the Convention). The adoption of the necessary execution measures is supervised by the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe, made up of representatives of the governments of the 47 Member States, assisted by the Department for the Execution of Judgments of the Court (Directorate General I of Human Rights and Rule of Law). The states have a legal obligation to remedy the violations found but enjoy a margin of appreciation as regards the means to be used. The measures to be taken are, in principle, identified by the state concerned, under supervision of the Committee of Ministers. .... Measures to be taken may relate to the individual applicant or be of a general nature. The Committee of Ministers ensures continuous supervision of the execution of judgments and decisions of the European Court of Human Rights. Cases remain under supervision until the required measures have been taken. Supervision is then closed by a final resolution. Once judgments and decisions become final, states indicate to the Committee of Ministers as soon as possible the measures planned and/ or taken in an "action plan". Once all the measures have been taken, an "action report" is submitted. During the supervision process, applicants, NGOs and National Institutions for the promotion and protection of Human Rights can submit communications, in writing. The supervision of the adoption and implementation of action plans has followed a new twin-track procedure since January 2011. Most cases follow the standard procedure. An enhanced procedure is used for cases requiring urgent individual measures or revealing important structural problems (in particular pilot-judgments) and for inter-state cases. Where necessary, the Committee of Ministers may assist execution in different ways, notably through recommendations set out in decisions and interim resolutions. ...." Source: https://www.coe.int/en/web/execution...vision-process The progress of a case before the CoM - Department of Execution of Judgments may be followed online at the following database: https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22E...91;%22CEC%22]} The procedure is that the respondent state files an Action Plan specifying its proposed (or completed) payment date, and its proposed individual measures and general measures. These are reviewed by the CoM - Department for Execution and the applicant, and changes may be suggested to the state. As the state works through its plan, it files Action Reports. Interim Resolutions may be filed by the CoM addressing the efforts of the state. When an Action Report indicates that the redress measures have been completed, and the CoM - Department for Execution and applicant agree, the CoM issues a Final Resolution. 2. As far as I know, the only legal avenues within Italy for a wrongful conviction to be reversed are the revision procedure and, possibly, the pardon procedure. These procedures are, according to Italian law, do not occur automatically after a final judgment of an unfair criminal trial by the ECHR. The revision procedure, which may be requested by either a prosecutor or a convicted person or both, may be requested after a final judgment of the ECHR finds that there has been a violation of the Convention by Italy of the convicted person's right to a fair trial (that is, a violation of Article 6.1). Acceptance by the Italian judicial system of a request for revision generally results in a legal proceeding which reviews only those elements of the case that are pertinent to the request. The result of revision proceedings that fairly evaluate the evidence and how it was obtained, in accordance with the ECHR final judgment, must either vacate (dismiss the charges) or acquit (find that the crime did not occur) in Amanda's case. |
27th June 2019, 09:41 PM | #357 |
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It should also be pointed out that Abu Hamza prior to being extradited to the US was found guilty and imprisoned by the UK on charges including soliciting murder and other terrorism-related charges leveled by the UK itself.
A number of the UK terrorism charges were apparently based on his alleged public statements or sermons advocating violence. "On 27 May 2004, Hamza was detained on remand by British authorities and appeared before magistrates at the start of a process to try to extradite him to the United States. Yemen also requested his extradition. The United States wanted Hamza to stand trial for eleven counts relating to the taking of sixteen hostages in Yemen in 1998, advocating jihad in Afghanistan in 2001, supporting James Ujaama in an alleged attempt to establish a "terrorist training camp" in late 1999 and early 2000 near Bly, Oregon, and of providing aid to al-Qaeda. .... On 8 July 2010, the ECtHR temporarily blocked Hamza's extradition to the United States to face terrorism charges until the court was satisfied that he would not be treated inhumanely." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri As you state, the ECHR did not find that Abu Hamza's Convention rights had been violated or that they would be violated by extradition to the US. Thus, the ECHR did not, after assuring that all relevant assurances had been received from the US, bar the UK from extraditing Abu Hamza. Some of the ECHR review of the case is contained in BABAR AHMAD AND OTHERS v. THE UNITED KINGDOM 24027/07 11949/08 36742/08 ... As you state, the case of Abu Hamza is not at all comparable to that of Amanda Knox. |
27th June 2019, 11:45 PM | #358 |
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Whaaaaaaaa.....? Vixen was wrong regarding Abu Hamza? Well, color me shocked!
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28th June 2019, 04:47 AM | #359 |
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"European Court of Human Rights Sides With Amanda Knox—to a Point"
by Barbie In other words, I've been wrong about this case for over a decade by I can't admit it. https://www.thedailybeast.com/europe...int?ref=scroll |
28th June 2019, 04:49 AM | #360 |
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Well.....
I was wrong, too. I'd at times expressed skepticism that the ECHR would decide in Knox's favour. I had thought that they'd simply take the easy route and sustain a member states wrongful conviction for calunnia by Knox against Lumumba..... ..... who to my knowledge has been strangely silent about it all. But I'm with Vixen - egg on my face (and in my posts) for repeatedly suggesting that Numbers was being way, way, way, way too optimistic that the ECHR would right an obvious wrong. Numbers is da man! Not just a collection of random digits, but a whole polynomial, if not a full-blown quadratic equation! |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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