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Old 27th February 2021, 08:50 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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Hallucinations while lost in the forest

There's a youtube video that has stories of people lost in forests and these people often have wild stories. The story that intrigues me is the one where a lost person saw people hiding behind trees and when they were approached for help they walked away.

Are these people seeing things that aren't there or do some people live in the forests who don't care whether an outsider lives or dies?
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Old 27th February 2021, 09:19 AM   #2
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Maybe they aren't walking away, just leading them to safety but aren't very talkative.

I'm sure if I was lost I would follow people whether they spoke or not.
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Old 28th February 2021, 01:08 PM   #3
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The short answer is to keep a healthy amount of salt handy when watching Youtube.

I used to be an avid hiker. Endorphins are wonderful because your brain releases them during physical activity. Your mind wanders when you hike alone, that's why I loved hiking since it allowed me time to think through many problems.

People's bodies are different. For me any hike over 5 miles my senses would become hyper-alert, and this can be a problem as it sets the stage for Pareidolia and Matrixing. I hike in Mountain Lion country, and after a while every noise becomes a possible threat (at least for a moment), and every shadow in the brush is a big cat stalking me. I assume it is the same for those who hike in bear country.

One time I had paused to drink water. I turned to see what I thought was a man dressed in a black robe standing 10 meters off the trail in the thick woods. I didn't hear him approach and he wasn't there moments before. Then I took a breath, stepped a few paces to one side, and realized it was an upended Oak Tree.

I had a good laugh and continued on. But I wondered how often this kind of thing happened to other people who never took the time to investigate, and ran away instead?
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Old 28th February 2021, 02:52 PM   #4
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Must be from breathing the spores of the roomus igloomus.

Oddly enough, I can't find the quote anywhere on the net that gives the full definition, so I'm going from memory. The more popular Google spelling is roomus e gloomus but that makes less sense than the below, in context.

The doctor, in a very Cary Grant-like accent, says "You have contracted roomus igloomus. Roomus -- meaning a small living space. Igloomus -- an ancient Eskimo word meaning 'mush'. Therefore, roomus igloomus -- mush room. You ate poison mushrooms."

The doctor was actually the Professor in Mary Ann's dream sequence. The show was Gilligan's Island.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 04:19 AM   #5
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When I'm tired I constantly 'see' people in my peripheral vision, pure pareidolia & I have no difficulty recognising it as such, but in an extended high stress situation like being lost in a forest I could see it being easy to into believing it. On top of that I do a lot of walking in the countryside & at night in a suburban setting and the number of purely coincidental arrangements of natural or man made objects that form convincing human figures from the right angle is surprising, I've seen a couple where the difference between where the objects actually were and where your mind interpreted them to be to get the illusion of a human form meant that the figure could have appeared to have been moving away as you approached, especially given stress, tiredness, an unfamiliar environment and the ever present human tendency to want to blame misfortune on someone or something..
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Old 2nd March 2021, 06:33 AM   #6
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Yes PJ Denver.

Those tired visual hallucinations, are part of my theory on Bigfoot sightings. It is not a coincidence that Bigfoot tour guides try to keep the paying tourists awake until late hours.

Someone sees a flash of something and their mind fills in the blanks.
They are afraid to tell people what happened, so they fabricate a story.

It is far more common in Car accidents where a driver fell asleep at the wheel, and often claim they saw something just before the accident. A tire bouncing in the road, a deer jumping in front of them, or a car swerving toward them.
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Old 2nd March 2021, 08:59 PM   #7
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I was once hiking in on the island of Tasmania and encountered a bunch of people dressed in long green flowing robes. They said I had to join them forever or die as they didn't want the outside world to know they existed. I took off running and they chased me for what seemed like forever. Then I remembered that I'd been drinking magic mushroom tea and I'd never been to Australia.



Hat tip to Zoolander and I'm disappointed this thread has gone on this long and there hasn't been a magic mushroom joke. You're welcome.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 06:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Hat tip to Zoolander and I'm disappointed this thread has gone on this long and there hasn't been a magic mushroom joke. You're welcome.
I give you: Alfaniner's Post #4 in this thread:

Quote:
"You have contracted roomus igloomus. Roomus -- meaning a small living space. Igloomus -- an ancient Eskimo word meaning 'mush'. Therefore, roomus igloomus -- mush room. You ate poison mushrooms."

The doctor was actually the Professor in Mary Ann's dream sequence. The show was Gilligan's Island.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 02:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I give you: Alfaniner's Post #4 in this thread:
Thank you. Although I did watch the episode again that night and the Professor's first definition was "Roomus -- an old Latin word meaning 'vacancy', or 'room'".

I was going the let the ignoring of my post slide as I didn't actually talk about "magic" mushrooms, just "poison" ones, but the implication was there.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 08:24 PM   #10
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Misperceptions and hallucinations are not unusual in a strange environment, particularly if there are other stressors.
I think this is a leftover of a natural defense mechanism. When tromping through the woods, mistaking a shadow for a bear may panic you, but do no real harm. On the other hand, mistaking a bear for a shadow can get you killed. In an unsecure environment the mind puts the worst spin on any uncertain data.

By contrast to having hallucinations in the forest, I once had a very vivid hallucination that I was in the forest when I was not. At SERE school we were down off the mountain and going through the POW Interrogation phase. I had been awake for three days, had eaten about 300 calories a day for five days, and was dehydrated. I was standing in the isolation box in the dark, forbidden to sit down or touch the walls. Gradually the light seemed to come up and I realized that I was not in the box at all, I was back in the woods. I could dimly see trees around me by the moonlight, and started walking toward a trail I had spotted. At that point I smacked into the wall and clear evidence that I was in fact still in the box.
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Old 4th March 2021, 05:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
Misperceptions and hallucinations are not unusual in a strange environment, particularly if there are other stressors.
I think this is a leftover of a natural defense mechanism. When tromping through the woods, mistaking a shadow for a bear may panic you, but do no real harm. On the other hand, mistaking a bear for a shadow can get you killed. In an unsecure environment the mind puts the worst spin on any uncertain data.

By contrast to having hallucinations in the forest, I once had a very vivid hallucination that I was in the forest when I was not. At SERE school we were down off the mountain and going through the POW Interrogation phase. I had been awake for three days, had eaten about 300 calories a day for five days, and was dehydrated. I was standing in the isolation box in the dark, forbidden to sit down or touch the walls. Gradually the light seemed to come up and I realized that I was not in the box at all, I was back in the woods. I could dimly see trees around me by the moonlight, and started walking toward a trail I had spotted. At that point I smacked into the wall and clear evidence that I was in fact still in the box.
My brother went through SERE up at Fairchild. He liked the box because it was the only place he fell asleep.

There are stories out of US Army Ranger School where guys try to feel dollars into trees thinking they're vending machines.

Seriously though, people under estimate dehydration's ability to sneak up on them. I did. I also found out the hard way that it is possible to over-hydrate and throw off your electrolyte balance. I thought I was having a heart attack.

Applying this to the OP, people must remember that every one is different, and that it is very easy to end up in a situation where you have over-extended your body, and that it usually effects the mind too.
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Old 5th March 2021, 09:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
There's a youtube video that has stories of people lost in forests and these people often have wild stories. The story that intrigues me is the one where a lost person saw people hiding behind trees and when they were approached for help they walked away.

Are these people seeing things that aren't there or do some people live in the forests who don't care whether an outsider lives or dies?
A more peripheral response, but anyway - "missing in the woods" accounts are becoming increasingly popular subject matter on YouTube; and while I don't make a habit of watching these videos, in the ones I have seen it seems clear to me that the narrative focus in the telling (or retelling) these accounts is on suggesting or supporting a connection between the stories being told and the "Missing 411" mythos.

For those of you who are unfamiliar, or have heard the term but haven't delved much into it: "Missing 411" is the assumed title of a new area of paranormal speculation involving...well, people who have gone missing in the woods. More specifically, the name comes from a series of books written by David Paulides, a former police officer and Bigfoot-hunter; in the book series, Paulides collates real cases of people who have gone missing in the woods, especially in well-traveled National and state parks, some of them eventually being found (dead or alive) and many not, where some circumstance surrounding the disappearance or the finding of the victim or the remains fits, in Paulides' estimation, a "profile" which has changed and expanded over time but can best be simplified to "their story can be told in a way that implies something paranormal may or must have happened". He also likes to highlight the Park Service's poor recordkeeping, lack of perpetual interest in decades-old disappearances and their less-than-enthusiastic reception to his requests for information, framing it as evidence that officials "know something" and are for whatever reason actively "covering up" "what's happening in our national parks".

Paulides is responsible for the genesis of this new paranormal "genre", and still actively contributes; but as usual, the growing fandom has taken on a sort of life of its own - in some respects to Paulides' dismay, it must be said. They make videos and gather in subreddits to speculate anytime some hiker is announced to be missing about whether the missing person is another victim of the supernatural force that is hunting National Park visitors. If a missing person does turn up alive, their stories and statements are scrutinized for any detail that could reasonably be interpreted or spun as having a paranormal implication.

To circle back; when Missing 411 enthusiasts make videos recounting the stories of people who have been lost in the woods, and the story includes things like "I thought I was seeing figures hiding and watching me from behind the trees and they always seemed to move away when I tried to approach them", what you're supposed to be inferring isn't that these are like some local woods-dwelling people that are watching the lost person but avoiding actual contact; you're supposed to be inferring that these are "entities", or that even if they are people there's some unnatural aspect to them.
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Old 5th March 2021, 01:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
A more peripheral response, but anyway - "missing in the woods" accounts are becoming increasingly popular subject matter on YouTube; and while I don't make a habit of watching these videos, in the ones I have seen it seems clear to me that the narrative focus in the telling (or retelling) these accounts is on suggesting or supporting a connection between the stories being told and the "Missing 411" mythos.

For those of you who are unfamiliar, or have heard the term but haven't delved much into it: "Missing 411" is the assumed title of a new area of paranormal speculation involving...well, people who have gone missing in the woods. More specifically, the name comes from a series of books written by David Paulides, a former police officer and Bigfoot-hunter; in the book series, Paulides collates real cases of people who have gone missing in the woods, especially in well-traveled National and state parks, some of them eventually being found (dead or alive) and many not, where some circumstance surrounding the disappearance or the finding of the victim or the remains fits, in Paulides' estimation, a "profile" which has changed and expanded over time but can best be simplified to "their story can be told in a way that implies something paranormal may or must have happened". He also likes to highlight the Park Service's poor recordkeeping, lack of perpetual interest in decades-old disappearances and their less-than-enthusiastic reception to his requests for information, framing it as evidence that officials "know something" and are for whatever reason actively "covering up" "what's happening in our national parks".

Paulides is responsible for the genesis of this new paranormal "genre", and still actively contributes; but as usual, the growing fandom has taken on a sort of life of its own - in some respects to Paulides' dismay, it must be said. They make videos and gather in subreddits to speculate anytime some hiker is announced to be missing about whether the missing person is another victim of the supernatural force that is hunting National Park visitors. If a missing person does turn up alive, their stories and statements are scrutinized for any detail that could reasonably be interpreted or spun as having a paranormal implication.

To circle back; when Missing 411 enthusiasts make videos recounting the stories of people who have been lost in the woods, and the story includes things like "I thought I was seeing figures hiding and watching me from behind the trees and they always seemed to move away when I tried to approach them", what you're supposed to be inferring isn't that these are like some local woods-dwelling people that are watching the lost person but avoiding actual contact; you're supposed to be inferring that these are "entities", or that even if they are people there's some unnatural aspect to them.
The OP comes from a Missing 411 case. I watch Paulides' Youtube posts regularly. I give him credit for being careful about not advancing theories, but at the same time he implies each case is not normal in some way. He also reads viewer comments which are full of speculation while never endorsing them. Standard Bigfoot/Paranormal "Expert" stuff. Paulides is a true believer, and I don't think he's trying to con people. He writes honestly and genuinely want to help the families recover their loved ones.

Last year a book titled, "The Cold Vanish: Seeking the Missing in North America's Wildlands" by Jon Billman did a fantastic job of exploring missing persons cases in National Parks. The book revealed that there is no federal standard for SAR (Search and Rescue), and the quality of a search depends on which state and county the person goes missing in. The book explores how families come to embrace crazy theories as time passes without resolution. The book details cases where a person was found, and the things they went through until their rescue. I recommend it if you like true-crime/outdoor adventure books.
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Old 9th March 2021, 02:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The OP comes from a Missing 411 case. I watch Paulides' Youtube posts regularly. I give him credit for being careful about not advancing theories, but at the same time he implies each case is not normal in some way. He also reads viewer comments which are full of speculation while never endorsing them. Standard Bigfoot/Paranormal "Expert" stuff. Paulides is a true believer, and I don't think he's trying to con people. He writes honestly and genuinely want to help the families recover their loved ones.
I'm not willing to give such credit. Paulides maybe doesn't positively advance specific theories, but it's clearly not because he doesn't have any. He narrates cases with an obvious eye toward implying a paranormal explanation, and he certainly has and does actively argue (poorly) against plausible mundane explanations. He is admittedly less obnoxious than your typical Just Asking Questions-er, but rhetorically that's still what he's doing. Paulides is careful not to advance theories because being able to say he is in communication and cooperation with the families of the missing lends him credibility, and that only keeps happening as long as they view him as someone who wants to help them rather than someone just basically using their cases as ghost stories. If he ever let on that he actually thinks their families members were abducted by the magical Bigfoot-thralls of interdimensional trolls, a lot of those families would stop talking to him, and he would lose that credibility bonus.
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Old 9th March 2021, 04:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm not willing to give such credit. Paulides maybe doesn't positively advance specific theories, but it's clearly not because he doesn't have any. He narrates cases with an obvious eye toward implying a paranormal explanation, and he certainly has and does actively argue (poorly) against plausible mundane explanations. He is admittedly less obnoxious than your typical Just Asking Questions-er, but rhetorically that's still what he's doing. Paulides is careful not to advance theories because being able to say he is in communication and cooperation with the families of the missing lends him credibility, and that only keeps happening as long as they view him as someone who wants to help them rather than someone just basically using their cases as ghost stories. If he ever let on that he actually thinks their families members were abducted by the magical Bigfoot-thralls of interdimensional trolls, a lot of those families would stop talking to him, and he would lose that credibility bonus.
I agree with most of this. I think Dave is a true believer but is cautious about jumping into the Woo-Well with both feet. His roots are with Bigfoot, and like his peers in that world every testimony is taken at face value. His refrain is, "There is no possible way a person could cover "X-Amount" of distance" in a certain time frame, and this is an assumption often made by SAR teams which is why people are either never found, or are found well outside of the search grids.

I got lost once in an area I thought I knew well. Luckily it was a small area where I could see key landmarks to get me out, but it was unnerving. From that time on I carry 2 good compasses on every hike. And there was 12-mile hike I made where hypothermia set in 3/4s of the way at the bottom of a canyon where I was three and a half miles from my truck with a 1,200 foot climb on switchbacks to reach the mesa that would lead me out. I covered that climb and distance in 48 minutes. I have no clear memory of how did it but I did run in spite of not being someone who does such a thing.

I think Paulides underestimates what people can do under stress.
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Old 11th March 2021, 04:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
His roots are with Bigfoot, and like his peers in that world every testimony is taken at face value. His refrain is, "There is no possible way a person could cover "X-Amount" of distance" in a certain time frame, and this is an assumption often made by SAR teams which is why people are either never found, or are found well outside of the search grids.
Two very important points. Paulides isn't prepared to entertain the possibility that peoples' estimates of things like time passing and so forth while in the woods may be wrong, sometimes drastically - to say nothing of the fact that parents especially might be just straight-up lying for obvious reasons about how long their child had been out of their sight before they were noticed as missing. And Paulides' incredulity about how far a person can walk in the woods is doubly deep when it comes to children; he is quite adamant in his belief that a young child simply cannot physically walk two or three miles, in any case really but particularly when some portion of that walk might be up a hill or mountainside of any grade. Paulides is especially excited when a very young child that survives long enough to be rescued tells about encountering a friendly bear in the woods; he endlessly repeats and harps on these particular tales, because he believes they prove beyond a doubt that the children are encountering and/or being abducted by bigfeet (the children obviously are mistaking Bigfoot for a "bear").

Some other of Paulides' common arguing points include: his vocal rejection of the concept of paradoxical undressing as a "real" thing, the fact that he still claims to be using a "profile" long after the victims he highlights ceased having any meaningful commonalities beyond the fact that they temporarily or permanently went missing; and that he continues to perpetuate this fiction of "clusters" to imply that what is in objective fact a relatively insignificant number of disappearances, sometimes wildly separated in time even, really suggests something anomalous or sinister about a location.
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Old 12th March 2021, 07:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Two very important points. Paulides isn't prepared to entertain the possibility that peoples' estimates of things like time passing and so forth while in the woods may be wrong, sometimes drastically - to say nothing of the fact that parents especially might be just straight-up lying for obvious reasons about how long their child had been out of their sight before they were noticed as missing. And Paulides' incredulity about how far a person can walk in the woods is doubly deep when it comes to children; he is quite adamant in his belief that a young child simply cannot physically walk two or three miles, in any case really but particularly when some portion of that walk might be up a hill or mountainside of any grade. Paulides is especially excited when a very young child that survives long enough to be rescued tells about encountering a friendly bear in the woods; he endlessly repeats and harps on these particular tales, because he believes they prove beyond a doubt that the children are encountering and/or being abducted by bigfeet (the children obviously are mistaking Bigfoot for a "bear").

Some other of Paulides' common arguing points include: his vocal rejection of the concept of paradoxical undressing as a "real" thing, the fact that he still claims to be using a "profile" long after the victims he highlights ceased having any meaningful commonalities beyond the fact that they temporarily or permanently went missing; and that he continues to perpetuate this fiction of "clusters" to imply that what is in objective fact a relatively insignificant number of disappearances, sometimes wildly separated in time even, really suggests something anomalous or sinister about a location.
Agree with both points, especially the second. As I said there was one long hile where hypothermia set in and I have no recollection of covering three miles in 45 minutes. But I did, and I obviously ran. In January I had a water pipe burst under the house. I do my own plumbing and I crawled under the house to make the fix which was simple, but I was lying in 40-degree (F) mud at the time, and I ran into problems making the patch. It took a few minutes before I realized I had hypothermia which made my thinking cloudy. I tool pictures with my phone, and left the job until the next day.

Had I continued to work under the house I would have ended up in the hospital. Hypothermia sneaks up on people who are not familiar with it, and even those folks like me are just as susceptible. In this last case I wasn't shivering. Had I not stopped to think about why I couldn't solve a simple problem I would have been in trouble. The next day I made the fix in 10 minutes.

Hypothermia makes people hallucinate, and the final stage causes the body to feel like it is heating up cause people to strip in the snow. I don't know why Dave dismisses this so readily. Okay, yes I do, but he should know better.
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Old 3rd April 2021, 10:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
he is quite adamant in his belief that a young child simply cannot physically walk two or three miles, in any case really but particularly when some portion of that walk might be up a hill or mountainside of any grade.
Ours could. No problem. Even at two years old my eldest son would sneak out of the cabin and find me in the woods more than a mile away when I was out logging. The only trails are ones we made and maintain ourselves. At key junctions he would listen for my chain saw in the distance to decide which way to go. He scared the living ***** out of me the first time he did it.

His younger brother at three did over two miles at twenty below zero after our snow machine broke down. We hiked back in with parts a few days later.
It was over 2,000 feet vertical distance up to where we broke down, with other elevation changes along the way. He just loved being with his daddy on those sorts of things.
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Old 7th April 2021, 12:25 PM   #19
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While only peripherally related to paranormal stories, some of the accounts of search and rescue attempts chronicled here


Search and Rescue

give people with not much wilderness experience an inkling of how difficult it is to find lost hikers, and how easy it is to become lost.
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Old 7th April 2021, 01:24 PM   #20
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The irony is that "experienced" hikers end up becoming more lost than the casual hiker. Me, for example. The two times I have been lost happened because I didn't bring a map, made what I thought were logical choices which only compounded my mistake, and then developed tunnel-vision which tacked on a good hour of being lost trying to prove I knew where I was going. Each time I forced my dumb ass to stop, admit I was lost, and retrace my steps to the point where I last knew where I was, and then get back to my truck, go home, and think about what an idiot I was that day.

You're supposed to stay on the trail but every once in a while you come across something far too tempting to pass up, and next thing you know you're 150 meters off-trail and turned around. The easiest place to get lost aren't the locations where the foliage is thick or the landscape is rugged as those environments usually force you to stay on the trail. Where I live the Poison Oak does more to keep people from wandering than the signs do.
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Old 7th April 2021, 03:19 PM   #21
xterra
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Staying off topic for a little longer, two practices have helped me in over 50 years of hiking.

The first one is to turn around occasionally and look back at where I've been, especially at a trail junction, so that I will (hopefully) know that place when I arrive at it on the way back.

The second is that a topo map and the ability to read it, combined with something that shows my current elevation, is sometimes more useful than merely knowing the lat/long.

(The third is to carry a "lost kit." If you don't know what that is, I will be pleased to tell you.)
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Old 7th April 2021, 07:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
When I'm tired I constantly 'see' people in my peripheral vision, pure pareidolia & I have no difficulty recognising it as such...
For me, it's spiders.

Because Australia, I guess.
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