IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , diseases

Reply
Old Today, 11:14 AM   #2201
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,919
Originally Posted by Caroline13 View Post
I don't want or need any vaccines except I needed a Tetnus maybe 20 yrs ago and that's been it. Then I believe a smallpox to go to first grade in 1943. Give me good old clean natural immune system health. Works for me.
It wouldn't have worked for smallpox, or polio or rabies though.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:24 AM   #2202
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Is rubbish. Firstly, of course someone can be anti-semitic. While I'm sure we could quibble over examples people might give for someone being anti-semitic, people who call for the killing of Jews are obviously anti-semitic. How are they not, irrespective of whether we are part of one whole conciousness?

Unless you mean that if one follows the belief that we are part of one conciousness THEN one cannot be anti-semitic. Ok, let's say for the sake of argument that I agree with you, why does David Icke promote Protocols?

Secondly, regarding the "one conciousness" thing, ok. Please provide evidence of this, but first please define exactly what you mean by it.

Yes, of course I mean that THEN, MarkCorrigan. It was the core of my message. And the core of David Icke's message is that "one conciousness thing". I always like to link people who smear the man to that old lecture he gave - "The Robot's Rebellion":

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

He has been consistent in this line of thought through the following decades.
__________________
If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:31 AM   #2203
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,458
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
What I see as the core of his message is that we are all one. One Consciousness.
Sounds nice. It would probably be nicer if he pushed less utter BS alongside that.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And I know that to be true.
This suggests to me that you wish it was true and have, for emotional reasons, assigned it disproportionate influence. That doesn't speak to whether it actually is reality or not, of course.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
In this mindset, you cannot be "racist" or "antisemitic" or whatever you want to call it. You are a part of the whole. A necessary and unique one.
This is a stretch, though. The attempted spin here is nice and pleasant, of course, but rather filled with holes of a number of varieties. Perhaps first and foremost is that the "cannot" relies solely on misusing semantics.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; Today at 11:32 AM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:34 AM   #2204
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,919
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post

Because if you prune the stuff that's even too wacky for you, then he isn't really a reliable source of information, is he? And if you believe the crappy sci-fi stuff - well then that explains a great deal.
Similar to the Flat Earthers that say NASA lies part from about the bits that say things the conspiracists agree with.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:39 AM   #2205
MarkCorrigan
Winter is Coming
 
MarkCorrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,028
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Yes, of course I mean that THEN, MarkCorrigan. It was the core of my message.
That's fair enough, I misunderstood and I apologise.
__________________
Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz

They for example thought that slavery was perfectly fine, absolutely OK, and then they didn't and what is the point of the Catholic Church if it says "Oh we couldn't know better because no one else did" THEN WHAT ARE YOU FOR? - Stephen Fry
MarkCorrigan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:52 AM   #2206
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
This suggests to me that you wish it was true and have, for emotional reasons, assigned it disproportionate influence. That doesn't speak to whether it actually is reality or not, of course.

What you perceive as a suggestion doesn't speak to whether it is true or not. We can agree on that.
__________________
If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:56 AM   #2207
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
That's fair enough, I misunderstood and I apologise.

Thank you, MarkCorrigan. Maybe actually take the time to watch the lecture I've linked. I'm not saying that David Icke doesn't make some extremely far out claims, but as I said, at the core of his message, he can't be a racist/anti-semite/etc.
__________________
If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:03 PM   #2208
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,458
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Thank you, MarkCorrigan. Maybe actually take the time to watch the lecture I've linked. I'm not saying that David Icke doesn't make some extremely far out claims, but as I said, at the core of his message, he can't be a racist/anti-semite/etc.
Just functionally indistinguishable from one?
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:07 PM   #2209
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Just functionally indistinguishable from one?

To you, maybe. In general one shouldn't use David Icke to smear Jon Rappoport (whoever that may be) to smear Tom Palven to smear everybody who isn't on line with the "common wisdom" on COVID-19. It just isn't the "skeptical" way.
__________________
If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:18 PM   #2210
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,891
Well I hope at least it's still okay to smear anyone who agrees with anything Anthony Fauci says for being an unthinking sheep. I mean, surely there's nothing wrong with that.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:20 PM   #2211
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,458
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
To you, maybe.
To be clear, I'm dealing more with the general principle rather than Icke, specifically. "One consciousness" views only remove racism/anti-semitism and so on from the picture in a misused semantics way, however pleasant they may be made to sound on the surface by promoters. Thus, your attempted line of defense is fundamentally flawed. Personally, I don't care enough about Icke to try to call him anything beyond a thoroughly non-credible source of information and claims, though, given that my interest in him pretty much vanished once that was determined.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
In general one shouldn't use David Icke to smear Jon Rappoport (whoever that may be) to smear Tom Palven to smear everybody who isn't on line with the "common wisdom" on COVID-19. It just isn't the "skeptical" way.
That might have more weight if it were what was happening. It's not.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; Today at 12:22 PM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:23 PM   #2212
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,853
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
[...]David Icke is a reliable source of information. [...]
For the ages
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:24 PM   #2213
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,853
Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
No, no it might not be.

There are of course things we must be wary of when it comes to the ultra-wealthy and governments. There is no doubt truth in the claims that governments often do things that are, knowingly or unknowingly counterproductive for their citizens. There is a great risk is swallowing what governments tell you whole and that there is quite likely issues with rich people rubbing shoulders with people in positions of great power. Backroom deals, special interests, favourable outcomes for the select few...I agree this is reasonable to believe in and insidious. But this is neither unique to these lunatics nor is it the core of their philosophy.

But the core of Icke's insanity is that the world is fictional and that we effectively live in the Matrix. This is nuts. Even discounting his obvious reptilian lunacy the core of Icke's belief is not "have a healthy level of suspicion" but "reality is a lie". This is patently not true.

He claims he can walk on coals and lava because we live in a virtual reality. The mechanics of lava and fire walking are well understood and are to do with the poor conductivity of the material being walked upon. If you are fast enough you can walk across blisteringly hot rocks. However, if reality were a lie as he claims and this is why he can do it rather than the science, why doesn't he give a whole lecture standing on hot coals? I mean, if the reason they don't burn him is that he "realises they aren't real" then time spent on them should have no impact, right?

David Icke is insane. David Icke endorses The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a known forgery. David Icke got his start down the path to insanity after visiting a psychic and claiming that he was a prophet.

Please, tell me what elements of David Icke's obvious ******** philosophy and clear break from reality are compelling to you?

Incidentally, it is not guilt by association if Rappaport works with Icke on his book and publishes jointly. If you support Rappaport but not Icke then you must explain why their collaberation does not indicate that maybe Rappaport is orbiting Jupiter as well.

And this is why...
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:34 PM   #2214
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 19,006
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
To be clear, I'm dealing more with the general principle rather than Icke, specifically. "One consciousness" views only remove racism/anti-semitism and so on from the picture in a misused semantics way, however pleasant they may be made to sound on the surface by promoters. Thus, your attempted line of defense is fundamentally flawed. Personally, I don't care enough about Icke to try to call him anything beyond a thoroughly non-credible source of information and claims, though, given that my interest in him pretty much vanished once that was determined.



That might have more weight if it were what was happening. It's not.

This is utter rubbish, Ari.
__________________
If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:17 PM   #2215
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 7,458
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
This is utter rubbish, Ari.
Hardly, though it's not hard to figure out that you would quite prefer that it is, on each point.

For the "one consciousness" and racism/antisemitism relation, for example, I can certainly agree that one consciousness is far less conducive to such and is probably more likely to attract less racist/anti-Semitic people than some of the more overtly hierarchical worldviews, but it's pretty easy for those already motivated to twist it to their less pleasant desires to justify racism and antisemitism. For that matter, it's not at all hard to imagine racists and antisemites who have accepted that racism and antisemitism is bad coming upon the one consciousness concept and adopting it under similar premises to what you're pushing, in fair part as a way to tell themselves that they aren't actually what they really are, rather than doing the much harder task of directly actually acknowledging and addressing the problematic beliefs or actions.

As for Icke, I'm definitely not interested in delving into him further right now, especially on this thread.

As for the what's happening? Your assessment is rather off, at best, by my observation.

Quote:
In general one shouldn't use David Icke to smear Jon Rappoport (whoever that may be) to smear Tom Palven to smear everybody who isn't on line with the "common wisdom" on COVID-19.
"Smear" is distinctly inaccurate in every case that it's used here, for example.

Quote:
It just isn't the "skeptical" way.
Given that what you're trying to claim is what's happening isn't actually what's happening, this is rendered meaningless from the start. Still, what the
"skeptical" way would be is worth a look. The skeptical way, in short, has a general base position of doubt that can be overcome with sufficient valid evidence and reasoning. That rather pointedly includes considering the validity and reliability of the sources of information. When those like Caroline13 and Tom Palven invoke lists of sources comprised overwhelmingly of those with very poor track records when it comes to validity and reliability, that's plenty worthy of note in a skeptical assessment.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; Today at 02:26 PM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.