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Tags BFRO , bigfoot , matt moneymaker , sasquatch

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Old 14th April 2009, 11:41 PM   #121
LTC8K6
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You can't tranquilize what you can't find, and you certainly can't tranquilize bigfoot when your first act upon apparently getting close to a live one is to abandon the area rapidly so you can write up your report.
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Old 15th April 2009, 12:13 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
You can't tranquilize what you can't find, and you certainly can't tranquilize bigfoot when your first act upon apparently getting close to a live one is to abandon the area rapidly so you can write up your report.

...abandon the area rapidly so you can write up your report, unless, of course, it's dark, in which case you turn on your video cameras and microphones and record pictures of darkness with the occasional light shining through, with everyone saying, "Hear that? Over there! Yeah, that's one."
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:27 AM   #123
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BFRO - Guided Bigfoot expeditions.

Does anyone else find the website bfro.net extremely shady? This organization/business has been selling guided camping trips where they attempt to coax bigfoot.

I'm sure given the number of expeditions, and number of participants they have sold access to some of these expeditions must've have produced some substantial evidence right? Wrong.


Taken from their website:
Quote:
What are the undisputed facts about the bigfoot / sasquatch mystery?
It's a fact that for more than 400 years people have reported seeing large, hair-covered, man-like animals in the wilderness areas of North America.

It is a fact that sightings of these animals continue today. Real or not, these reports are often made by people of unimpeachable character.
It is a fact that, for over seventy years, people have been finding, photographing, and casting sets of very large human-shaped tracks. Most are discovered by chance in remote areas. These tracks continue to be found to this day.

It is a fact that the cultural histories of many Native American and First Nation peoples include stories and beliefs about non-human "peoples" of the wild. Many of these descriptions bear a striking resemblance to the hairy man-like creatures reported today.

These are some of the facts. There is, however, much disagreement as to what these facts mean.

To many, these facts, taken together, suggest the presence of an animal, probably a primate, that exists today in very low population densities. If true, this species, having likely evolved alongside humans, became astonishingly adept at avoiding human contact through a process of natural selection.

To others, these same facts point to a cultural phenomenon kept alive today through a combination of the misidentification of known animals, wishful thinking, and the deliberate fabrication of evidence.

The BFRO, and its members, take the former view.

This is of course posted by the same organization attempting to present the "Jacobs photos" representing a juvenile sasquatch. My bolding above points to some very carefully worded statements posted on their website. The website with a CEO that claims to have a sasquatch sighting of his own as well. (as stated in a national geographic article) Seems from that wording, "real or not" would suggest they are not sure. Contradictive?



Even today a moderator on their forum posts this gem:

Quote:
AndrewP - (moderator on the forum over there) Posted: December 12th, 2009 11:37 PM

We do find scat, all the time. We've found piles of likely squatch scat on every expedition, public and private, I've been on.

Pretty bold statement, considering there have never been any confirmed sasquatch scat. Where is all this evidence laid claim to? Interesting...


So the question is, how does this organization/company get away with charging folks for going on bigfoot expeditions? Do they obtain the proper permits to do so on public lands? How many people total have been on said expeditions? (at 300 bucks a pop, 100 for repeat attendees) Are they paying taxes on all of this income from the claimed amount?


Curious for some opinions about this operation, and its legal status considering some of these claims. How far is too far with bold claims? Just how far can you go before it becomes fraud? Any lawyers here want to comment on the specifics? Thanks.

Being that Mr Moneymaker has made claims of being a law school graduate (is he a legitimate lawyer?) and has also made claims to seeing a bigfoot, I am curious what the particulars could imply regarding these expeditions, and or the claims on their website regarding the expeditions and otherwise misrepresented photos, or scat etc. When do you cross that fine line of legitimate sales technique, or misrepresenting evidence etc. in order to continue selling these expeditions to potential costumers.



Fraud?
Legal, but shady?
Completely legitimate?

Lets hear some informed opinions please.

Last edited by Sagacious; 13th December 2009 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 13th December 2009, 09:33 AM   #124
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My opinion is that Mr. Moneymaker was aptly named.
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Old 13th December 2009, 10:09 AM   #125
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They have nothing. Nada. zilch. Not a thing. For them to suggest otherwise makes them liars.
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Old 13th December 2009, 10:51 AM   #126
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If the BFRO and its representatives are in possession of an abundance of "sasquatch scat", I request that in the name of human understanding of the natural world, they submit multiple samples taken from different areas to a wildlife research team and/or zoological laboratory, and let science do its work.

Knowing the diet of this undiscovered animal would be a good first step toward actually finding one. Once we understand what it eats, we can lay bait and/or position game-cams at likely sites.

Or perhaps the BFRO members and participants in these guided expos are simply undereducated in the identification of fecal remains of known animals such as big cats, bears and even, dare I suggest such a thing, human beings.
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Old 13th December 2009, 11:26 AM   #127
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How dare you disparage the BFRO! Founded in 1995, they're "the only scientific research organization exploring the bigfoot/sasquatch mystery"[1], and "has amassed one of the most intriguing written cultural histories in the United States of America"[2].

The BFRO still stands firmly behind the Skookum Cast [3], and the Jacob's Photo [4], and have now created the ultimate pay-as-you-go bigfoot circus, that pitched its tent in 28 hotspots of activity last year.

You pay your fee to get in, there's lots of fanfare, but things only get truly interesting when it's dark, and you forgot your flashlight. If you're lucky you're treated to a close up encounter with an elephant. You can't touch the elephant, nor even see it, but it's quite exhilarating to hear one just a few feet away, crashing around in the bush.

Some of the circus crowd have attended multiple times, never disappointed that the center ring remains empty.

Obviously, it's a nice money-maker for the big cheese who runs the BFRO.

Not allowing guns means there's no danger someone might accidentally shoot a <cough> bigfoot <cough> that's stalking the perimeter of the camp.

RayG

[1] http://www.bfro.net/
[2] http://trueslant.com/scottbowen/2009...igfoot-part-1/
[3] http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/
[4] http://www.bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/jacobs_photos.asp
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Old 13th December 2009, 02:17 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Sagacious View Post
Does anyone else find the website bfro.net extremely shady? This organization/business has been selling guided camping trips where they attempt to coax bigfoot.

I'm sure given the number of expeditions, and number of participants they have sold access to some of these expeditions must've have produced some substantial evidence right? Wrong.


Taken from their website:



This is of course posted by the same organization attempting to present the "Jacobs photos" representing a juvenile sasquatch. My bolding above points to some very carefully worded statements posted on their website. The website with a CEO that claims to have a sasquatch sighting of his own as well. (as stated in a national geographic article) Seems from that wording, "real or not" would suggest they are not sure. Contradictive?



Even today a moderator on their forum posts this gem:




Pretty bold statement, considering there have never been any confirmed sasquatch scat. Where is all this evidence laid claim to? Interesting...


So the question is, how does this organization/company get away with charging folks for going on bigfoot expeditions? Do they obtain the proper permits to do so on public lands? How many people total have been on said expeditions? (at 300 bucks a pop, 100 for repeat attendees) Are they paying taxes on all of this income from the claimed amount?


Curious for some opinions about this operation, and its legal status considering some of these claims. How far is too far with bold claims? Just how far can you go before it becomes fraud? Any lawyers here want to comment on the specifics? Thanks.

Being that Mr Moneymaker has made claims of being a law school graduate (is he a legitimate lawyer?) and has also made claims to seeing a bigfoot, I am curious what the particulars could imply regarding these expeditions, and or the claims on their website regarding the expeditions and otherwise misrepresented photos, or scat etc. When do you cross that fine line of legitimate sales technique, or misrepresenting evidence etc. in order to continue selling these expeditions to potential costumers.



Fraud?
Legal, but shady?
Completely legitimate?

Lets hear some informed opinions please.
I believe he has gone to law school (allegedly), but he is not a lawyer.
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Old 13th December 2009, 02:22 PM   #129
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The thing that tipped me from "honest but deluded" to "shady" was the fact that the BFRO doesn't allow tranquilizers on its little jaunts. You'd think that they would be all for putting ol' Squatch to sleep and thereby getting absolutely incontrovertible evidence of its existence. They're not, and that tells me all I need to know about them.
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Old 13th December 2009, 02:24 PM   #130
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Mikeyx, there was absolutely no need for you to quote that entire post just to say that one line.


Saga, we have a number of other threads tagged with BFRO and one of them is specific about their expeditions. BTW, with all due respect, you seem to be quite familiar with the Bigfoot topic and tagged this thread like a pro instead of a newbie. You are not new to this debate at all, are you?
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:00 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
The thing that tipped me from "honest but deluded" to "shady" was the fact that the BFRO doesn't allow tranquilizers on its little jaunts. You'd think that they would be all for putting ol' Squatch to sleep and thereby getting absolutely incontrovertible evidence of its existence. They're not, and that tells me all I need to know about them.
If I may play devil's advocate for a moment, the refusal to allow the use of tranquilizers is not an indication of "shadiness" or a willful obfuscation of reality on the BFRO's part. Tranquilizers do not work the way we've been conditioned to understand them from movies and television: namely, load a dart, aim and fire, repeat as necessary, and the target animal goes down. The reality is far more complicated -- and potentially dangerous for both target and shooter -- than that. The use of tranquilizers is neither easy nor harmless.

First, what is the dosage required to drop the target animal quickly? How many darts need to be fired at the animal, with each dart containing how many cc of what narcotic? Overdosing might kill the animal (in which case you might as well shoot it with a bullet); under-dosing might leave the shooter and others in the area vulnerable to attack from a wounded and/or enraged animal. We don't know the average mass (or neuro-chemistry) of an undiscovered animal, so it is impossible to determine the proper dosage, or indeed the kind of drug, required to safely tranquilize it.

Second, the shooter would have to position him/herself closer than he would if s/he were armed with a standard firearm, since tranquilizer darts have a much shorter range than standard bullets (about 1/10). This again would open the shooter to potential harm from the target animal (if it exists, which I'm not saying it does).

Third, darting equipment is expensive, specific to certain fields of research, and difficult to obtain. On what authority could a group of amateur foresters acquire the necessary equipment and substances?

Fourth, we have no way of knowing how long the effects of the tranquilizing drug (whatever it may be) would last. What would happen once the animal awakens? What are the next steps in transporting it to a laboratory for examination? How could a group of amateur foresters and weekend woodsmen safely transport a massive (?) animal to the nearest wildlife research facility? What assurances can we possibly provide that the animal would not awaken at some point during its transport and go on a kill-crazy rampage? Or at the very least, somehow injure itself in an effort to escape?

The majority of the preceding has been summarized from Krantz, 1991, p. 225 - 227. Please be aware that I do not believe bigfoot exists. However, if we are going to assume for the sake of discussion that it might, and proceed with the details of hunting for and safely tranquilizing it, the above points must be addressed -- for the sake of the hunters as well as the hunted, if any of the latter exist, which is doubtful.
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:16 PM   #132
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Fair points, Vort. Personally, I think educated guesses could be made regarding most of the variables you mentioned, but the biggest fly in the ointment is the lack of targets. That, and the risk of tranquilizing some BFRO member out doing his Squatch impression.
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:46 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
How dare you disparage the BFRO! Founded in 1995, they're "the only scientific research organization exploring the bigfoot/sasquatch mystery"[1], and "has amassed one of the most intriguing written cultural histories in the United States of America"[2].

The BFRO still stands firmly behind the Skookum Cast [3], and the Jacob's Photo [4], and have now created the ultimate pay-as-you-go bigfoot circus, that pitched its tent in 28 hotspots of activity last year.

You pay your fee to get in, there's lots of fanfare, but things only get truly interesting when it's dark, and you forgot your flashlight. If you're lucky you're treated to a close up encounter with an elephant. You can't touch the elephant, nor even see it, but it's quite exhilarating to hear one just a few feet away, crashing around in the bush.

Some of the circus crowd have attended multiple times, never disappointed that the center ring remains empty.

Obviously, it's a nice money-maker for the big cheese who runs the BFRO.

Not allowing guns means there's no danger someone might accidentally shoot a <cough> bigfoot <cough> that's stalking the perimeter of the camp.

RayG

[1] http://www.bfro.net/
[2] http://trueslant.com/scottbowen/2009...igfoot-part-1/
[3] http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/
[4] http://www.bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/jacobs_photos.asp
.
Sounds like the tour group that would show you real Graboids in one of the "Tremors" series on SyFy.
Boy, were they surprised when a real one showed up!
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:46 PM   #134
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Yes, I neglected to mention the potential for inadvertently tranquilizing -- or killing -- a doofus in a fur suit, out for a night of (mostly) harmless tree-knocking frivolity.
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:52 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Yes, I neglected to mention the potential for inadvertently tranquilizing -- or killing -- a doofus in a fur suit
You're crazy man.
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:53 PM   #136
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The cretins that brought us "Freezer Bigfoot"?
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Old 13th December 2009, 03:54 PM   #137
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No. That was an entirely different set of cretins.
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Old 13th December 2009, 05:05 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Sagacious View Post
Does anyone else find the website bfro.net extremely shady? This organization/business has been selling guided camping trips where they attempt to coax bigfoot.
Hello, Sagacious, and welcome to the JREF. As WP already pointed out, we already have a thread on the BFRO and their expeditions...

Moneymakin'! The BFRO Bigfoot Expeditions Thread.

I personally find it best to check if there is a thread already existing on a subject I want to discuss, especially where Bigfoot threads are related. That prevents the GS&P from having 12 threads on the first page witha Bigfoot heading. I would make the suggestion that a mod merge this thread into the existing one for simplicity.

Sagacious, just so you know, Matt Moneymaker has a membership here. If you will look at Moneymaker's profile, you will see that he has one post only, yet if you try to click on that post, you get "sorry -no matches found". There is a reason for that. I've written a lot about the BFRO and their expeditions here. Enough that it got to Moneymaker who had a royal spaz. Moneymaker is a wannabe lawyer and likes to spew legal threats at people who irk him. I'm one of those people. Moneymaker is not a lawyer. He studied law but gave it up to make money on the belief in Bigfoot. I don't think Matt actually believes in Bigfoot at all.

A number of Bigfoot forums have threads on Moneymaker's threats to me. The BFF's is here...

Someone Named Matthew Moneymake Threatens JREF poster with legal action.

In the OP there you will see Monemaker's little fit...

Originally Posted by Matt Moneymake
Hey Kitakaze,

Do me a favor and post your real name and contact info so I can sue you for criminal libel, you lying piece of crap.
I will own you, and teach you something about the law. If you lie about about someone, or a group, then try to hide behind the anonymity of a forum like this ... You're in for a surprise.

Stand behind your words, you dog, so I can make an example out of you. Post your name and address, so I don't have to subpoena the records of this forum to get at you. Save them that trouble, because the forum does serve an important function when commenting on things it actually knows about ... rather than libeling people anonymously. All the disclaimers in the worlds won't protect it from that.

Nearly all of the long-time proponents of bigfoot research ARE MEMBERS OF THE BFRO and attend the expeditions, and some organize the expeditions as well.

I'm going to make you wish you never even looked at the BFRO web site. I kinda doubt that you're in Japan, but I can get at you there too, because there are agreements between the two countries for situations like these. You're going to learn a lot from me, you punk.


MM
LOL. Matt Moneymaker wants me to help him sue me.



Oops, I fell down.

Moneymaker could not sue me and was simply swinging his purse at me out of anger. I share this with you so that you are aware of what posting criticisms for Moneymaker and his BFRO on a skeptics board can lead to. Whether I am in Japan or Canada, his bluster is harmless to me. I am confident he could not have sued me if he had my person information and I lived in the United States. Also, you should be aware that Moneymaker is going to be on heightened alert for criticisms to his organization with a new TV series coming and over a hundred expeditions planned for 2010, smaller in attendance size.
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Old 13th December 2009, 05:13 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Bitter Monk View Post
No. That was an entirely different set of cretins.
I was wondering if that bunch were out of jail already.
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Old 14th December 2009, 06:31 AM   #140
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Thanks for the great replies so far. Thank you also for the welcome kitkaze. I apologize for creating an already made thread. (so to speak) I first ran a search by title and it came up with nothing. In the future I'll try a tag search also.

I appreciate the responses also, I'm still doing some research but will make an informative post soon. I'm very curious how far is too far when making these grandiose claims in support of something that is completely unprecedented when your organization also sells Guide services related to these claims. There have often been claims made of "sasquatch activity" on these expeditions. At what point does it become fraud? I'm very curious what the legalities are concerning this. I know there are folks that sell all sorts of services that are, lets say questionable in nature that are perfectly legal. I think it may relate to what claims are made, and in what context. I'm not aware of what disclaimers they may invoke for this sort of expedition also. (or required NDA etc)


To me, this seems very questionable. Given that there are no bigfoot, and they are not only selling guided tours/camping trips and people within the organization are making claims of bigfoot activity during these trips, also making claims of stool, vocals, and even sightings, footprints etc. (excellent stool reference earlier regarding that! nice one) At what point does something like this become fraud and prosecutable?


By the way, I did get a great laugh out of reading Mr Moneymakers remarks. Sounds like hes used to having control over everything. Sorry to inform you of this Mr Moneymaker, but the only thing you're owning here is a great reputation as an @ss. At least I wont feel bad gving this organization a little looking into. Great e-thug posting though, at least a 4 out of 10. I think I just heard his e-peen shrink, I'm not sure though. Maybe its always been that small. I have little sympathy for people who profit from others by fooling them into believing crap like this.


Thank you to the mod/admin who merged the threads. Sorry to give you a little extra work there.
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Old 14th December 2009, 08:32 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Sagacious View Post
My bolding above points to some very carefully worded statements posted on their website. The website with a CEO that claims to have a sasquatch sighting of his own as well. (as stated in a national geographic article) Seems from that wording, "real or not" would suggest they are not sure. Contradictive?

As you can see, they do word things in ways that allow for "but we could be wrong" - even if they don't explicitly say that. You also have to consider the people who are voluntarily paying to go on these expeditions. Are they truly being defrauded and do they themselves feel that way?

The BFRO and all of their paying customers may understand that Bigfoot is a myth and folktale. The problem is that if they state it outright in any way whatsoever it ruins the entire theme of the legend and experience. Shut down Disneyland because Mickey is a fake mouse. Stop "pro wrestling" because it's all faked.

How do you prevent the fraud of Mickey Mouse? Do you force a law that requires him to wear a shirt that says "I am not real. Do not sue me for fraud"? Or do you force every person who attends pro wrestling to sign something at the door which says "I fully understand that this is fake. I will not sue for fraud"?

I know that many things state "for entertainment purposes" or something like that to protect themselves in this age of wanton litigation.

Maybe I'm weirdly different than most Bigfoot skeptics. Because I think that surprisingly few Bigfoot believers really truly believe. I think most of the ones that proclaim it exists are doing nothing other than enjoying themselves. For some of them, part of that enjoyment involves getting on the Internet and telling skeptics like us that we are full of crap.
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Old 14th December 2009, 08:50 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe I'm weirdly different than most Bigfoot skeptics. Because I think that surprisingly few Bigfoot believers really truly believe. I think most of the ones that proclaim it exists are doing nothing other than enjoying themselves. For some of them, part of that enjoyment involves getting on the Internet and telling skeptics like us that we are full of crap.
PARCHER-
When I was a kid, my Mom told me
Originally Posted by My Moms
"IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS, THEN YOU DON'T GET ANY PRESENTS".
So, I believed in Santa Claus, mostly around her and my little brother. And I got the presents...

Do you think there is some of that mentality in Bigfootry?
Quote:
"If you don't believe in Bigfoot, you don't get the benefits"...
The attention, the invitations to the outings, meeting Bob Gimlin (SOTE), Being a forum moderator, etc...
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Old 14th December 2009, 09:32 AM   #143
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Quote:
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS, THEN YOU DON'T GET ANY PRESENTS.

Quote:
If you don't believe in Bigfoot, you don't get the benefits...

These quotes really could be expanded to show the real deal...

Quote:
IF YOU DON'T TELL ME THAT YOU BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS, THEN YOU DON'T GET ANY PRESENTS.

Quote:
If you don't tell us that you believe in Bigfoot, you don't get the benefits...

It's not possible to crawl inside anyone's brain to see if they truly believe what they say they do.
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Old 14th December 2009, 09:47 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Fair points, Vort. Personally, I think educated guesses could be made regarding most of the variables you mentioned, but the biggest fly in the ointment is the lack of targets. That, and the risk of tranquilizing some BFRO member out doing his Squatch impression.
Targets and lack of them is a primary concern, for sure... But I don't think you can gloss over the execution of such a 'tranquilizer shot' either...

I looked at some of the equipment and wildlife management guns used to shoot said tranquilizer darts and you have to be very close to the quarry to use them... 20-30 yards range if I recall correctly... There may be some much more expensive para-military sniper-like darts and guns that can be precision-fired from hundreds of yards, but not what I saw...

The guns and darts I saw looked designed to trank large game animals in reserves or zoos (20 or 30 yards max range for use within enclosures)... It might be possible to use the same equipment on say, a grizzly bear in the wild (for example) that would respond to set-up bait station perhaps, but I would not want to be in the tree stand next to the bait when you realize the dosage of horse tanquilizer you put in the dart is inadequate...

In either case, expecting to operate a standard wildlife management tranq gun as long range hunting or sniper rifle is not realistic... the gun range is far, far less and functional use of such a piece of equipment in the wild is probably specific and limited... just my pragmatic opinion - I am no expert I may be wrong...

I do believe large wild animals should only be attempted to be tranked by wildlife management personnel who have been trained to use the equipment safely (for humans and animals)... especially where proper tranquilizer mix and usage is concerned... I don't think it is something that an enthusiast with firearms hunting skills should be allowed to 'test' (even if they were able to illegally obtain prescription animal tranquilizer...)
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Old 14th December 2009, 11:38 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Sagacious View Post
snip

Even today a moderator on their forum posts this gem:

Quote:
Quote:
AndrewP - (moderator on the forum over there) Posted: December 12th, 2009 11:37 PM

We do find scat, all the time. We've found piles of likely squatch scat on every expedition, public and private, I've been on.
Pretty bold statement, considering there have never been any confirmed sasquatch scat. Where is all this evidence laid claim to? Interesting...

/snip

If the BFRO claims to collect so much bigfoot crap, it could be said that the BFRO is full of crap.

Oh the memories this thread brings back. I remember at least 5 or so posters in recent times asking about Matt Moneymakers sasquatch sighting on their board, only to have the posts ignored, and deleted. He apparently refuses to discuss it publically. Go figure.

Another interesting tidbit is, on their forum there was a debate about a popular scientist in the bigfoot fields opinion on the jacobs photos. Moneymaker got pretty upset by the fact that Jeff Meldrum (a well known name in the bigfoot community) Said quote:
Quote:
Very little speculation involved... the image is almost certainly a black bear, yet the photos continue to receive unwarranted attention.

Jeff Meldrum
This of course upset Mr Monkeymaker and he had to include with Meldrums opinion his own little rant about how Meldrum was wrong and insisted that the jacobs photos represent a juvenile sasquatch.

Was that like any sasquatch you've seen Mr Moneymaker? Interesting.

Not that I expect a reply, of course. Since he refuses to discuss his own sighting, or even say if its part of their public database, I guess he will probably avoid this thread also. But thats not shady at all for the president of an organization that publishes a large database on sasquatch sightings. Send us your sighting reports, but I'm not gonna discuss mine.... can we say LMAO? I find his emanors quite amusing though. He definitely seems to be quite the control freak. I bet its a joy to be involved with his organization. *gag*

kit, that post he made to you is hilarious! I'm pretty sure I've pissed him off a time or two also, but I havent had the honor of receiving a special email yet. awww. I did however spark that debate about Meldrums opinion which prompted one of the forum members over there to contact Meldrum directly, and have been a fairly vocal opponent to the jacobs photo representing anything other than a mangy bear. (which along with my anti-bfro position got me banned fairly quickly from the bfro forums!)


I find this statement on their website hilarious:

Quote:
The only scientific research organization exploring the bigfoot/sasquatch mystery
Wow, a "scientific research organization" that has no credible evidence after almost 15 years of research. Another nice little point, they did manage to sell quite a few camping trips to people. How scientific of them. You know... all the big scientific organizations involved in studying animals, they sell camping trips right? They also never have any conclusive evidence right?


Well, that is... if you're the BFRO. What a premier organization, that BFRO. I tell ya. If you decide to check out their website, be sure to take in all of that concise information about sasquatch. Just make sure you have the barf bag close.


BFRO = girl scouts of the bigfoot community. They'll be more than happy to take your money, but you wont get any cookies. Just the privilege of listening to whispering and "wait listen" repeat x10 + dramatic enthusiasm and maybe even some "suspected sasquatch vocals". But its worth 300 bucks right? Oh yeah, dont forget, all that includes is the privilege of being there. They dont provide any tents or lodging, food or facilities. You just get to be there. (many "expeditions" have been in public parks, and some on private land) Dont you feel special yet???

Wait!! Did you hear that??? Shhh

lol

Last edited by River; 14th December 2009 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 15th December 2009, 07:12 AM   #146
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Mod Warning A few posts moved to Abandon All Hope forum for being off topic.

Remember folks that if you think a member is a sockpuppet, the proper proceedure is to report it along with any evidence you have. Making sockpuppet allegations in the forum is considered off topic and may result in infractions or other moderation.

Also remember that while we do not prohibit talking about other forums, you may not bring over the text of discussions from other forums. This is considered a violation of rule 7, i.e. "...only the person registering an account may use it." If you wish to hold a discussion with a member of another forum, ask them to join here.

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Old 15th December 2009, 07:52 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
Mod Warning A few posts moved to Abandon All Hope forum for being off topic.

Remember folks that if you think a member is a sockpuppet, the proper proceedure is to report it along with any evidence you have. Making sockpuppet allegations in the forum is considered off topic and may result in infractions or other moderation.

Also remember that while we do not prohibit talking about other forums, you may not bring over the text of discussions from other forums. This is considered a violation of rule 7, i.e. "...only the person registering an account may use it." If you wish to hold a discussion with a member of another forum, ask them to join here.

Thank you
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Perhaps, any poster who is also a member/principal/proponent of another (competing) BF related "research" organisation should have the courtesy of identifying themselves as such.
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Old 15th December 2009, 08:46 AM   #148
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There are no more of the glorified camping trips because the potential and inevitable litigious risk inherent in that generally ~$3-10K/mo. is no longer justified in light of the sponsor's $25K/mo. generosity to one individual.

eta- ...according to what I've heard.

Last edited by 154; 15th December 2009 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 16th December 2009, 07:44 PM   #149
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River sums it all up quite 'nicely and concisely'. Excellent.

This sorta Omnipotent Ogre™ Matt Moneymaker seems to be really is a despicable character huh! I mean, he takes groups of people out on a so-called 'Bigfoot Hunts', guarantees their Bigfoot enlightenment, upon return erroneously claims everyone had some form of 'Bigfoot contact' and goes on about his way to the next such trip. YET, he not only not produces any type of 'corroborating evidence' of such contacts (which must number in the hundreds by now), but feebly attempts to 'intellectually' deny its necessity AND THEN verbally pounds on ANYONE who even alludes to the notion they might need a little bit more than just 'scary monster stories'. That's definitely not HONEST. And as such, it's certainly not moral, and it's just not right. IMO about the only thing he really deserve is relentless ridicule and derision (and hopefully public embarrassment) for being the pitiful liar and cheater that he is.

Now I'm not much familiar with who this Wally guy is, but I am interested in why he is. Apparently Moneymaker is now a very well 'kept' man by him; yet still can't contribute even one thing 'Bigfoot worthy' back to the rest of the world for it? Or am I way off and the $25k a month is just the organization's K-Y budget given to them by a suspiciously lonely-but-kindly old bachelor?

No, in the cosmic reality of it all, Moneymaker is, simply, a charlatan. An aggressive if not affable, and inevitably anti-social 'salesman'. He just can't help himself. He takes advantage of anyone and everyone willing to buy into his 'shtick'. I've no desire to read anymore 'stories' of how the 'so many' have done 'so much' for the ultimately ungrateful *******. And truly, I do feel bad for the 'countless many' that put forth so much righteous effort on his and the BFRO's behalf over the years, with probably 99% of them not having a clue (at the time) their 'work' was always intended to be solely for Matt Moneymaker's own enrichment. There's never been a Bigfoot Cause, it's always been the Moneymaker Cause. Bigfoot is but a device. In Moneymaker's world, F&B (Flesh & Blood) Bigfoot isn't so 'real', but P&L (Profit & Loss) Bigfoot surely is.
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Old 16th December 2009, 09:56 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by River View Post
kit, that post he made to you is hilarious! I'm pretty sure I've pissed him off a time or two also, but I havent had the honor of receiving a special email yet. awww. I did however spark that debate about Meldrums opinion which prompted one of the forum members over there to contact Meldrum directly, and have been a fairly vocal opponent to the jacobs photo representing anything other than a mangy bear. (which along with my anti-bfro position got me banned fairly quickly from the bfro forums!)
Let's play How well do you know your Bigfoot enthusiasts?

Did this guy right here...



... create a member profile at the JREF forums under the handle "Matthew Moneymake" because...

a) He was in such a fiery rush to unload his Tourettesgasm that he could not even finish the last letter of his name nor be bothered to check it.

b) He figured that by incorrectly entering his name, but by writing it in a fashion where anyone would think it was him, that he protected himself in the event that he might be punished for his behaviour or reprimanded for making baseless legal threats.

Matthew Moneymake? Who the heck is Matthew Moneymake? I am Moneymaker. With an "r", yes? That is somebody just pretending to be me. I'm innocent!

I would say it was mostly A with B being a convenient afterthought.
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Old 16th December 2009, 10:12 PM   #151
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c) Won't show up on a Google search when the correct spelling is used.
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Old 16th December 2009, 10:21 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
c) Won't show up on a Google search when the correct spelling is used.
Of course. I should have thought of that. Now I'm 50/50 A and C. Matt would definitely want us to know it's him but he certainly wouldn't want his spaz coming up on a google search of his name. His rage, though, was sufficient enough that I must allow for simply being in too much of a rush.
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 17th December 2009, 09:22 AM   #153
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Here is a guy who pulls in hundreds if not thousands of people to attend his Bigfoot Camp Outs for a fee and nothing is covered for the fee other than an experience. He has to be given credit for capitalism, regardless of character.

If his character is so distasteful, how is that he has so many return, pay another fee and want to become part of his organization?

Heck, he now has a sugar daddy and wow, if he's getting $25k a month, I'm sure the heck in the wrong business.

Personally, I'd never pay an individual to go into a National Forest or State Park to camp with up to 60+ people looking for an elusive animal.

If anyone would like to pay me $300 to take them into the forest and scare them, please PM me.
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Old 22nd August 2010, 11:20 AM   #154
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Quote:
I'd say anyone who doubts Moneymaker's sincerity and critical abilities is simply a fool, or misled.
Steven Streufert Bigfoot's Blog (that weirdo blogger).
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Old 22nd August 2010, 11:32 AM   #155
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Right before your quote..

Quote:
...he answered all my questions without taking offense, even the controversial ones. Asked about the notion some spread that the BFRO is some kind of a cult, and he is the leader, Matt said, "There is no cult or cult of personality. If there is a cult it is about Bigfoot [not the BFRO or me]."



Well, gee whiz, why would Matt lie ?
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Old 22nd August 2010, 02:01 PM   #156
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That was from almost a year ago. Looking over it, it brought me back to the BFF post by Jim Fey that first made me label him "Bobo the Chimp" and I reread these words of his...

Originally Posted by Bobo @ BFF
also, i don't think you would want to be the guy there who has openly dissed the 78 year old, chiricahua apache elder, boxing(155-0) champ and rodeo legend at a ranch with all of his friends and family present.
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.p...c=24400&st=198

Bob Gimlin. Chiricahua Apache elder. 155-0 boxing champion. Rodeo legend.

Does he drink Dos Equis?

And how much of that is hooey? I'm calling 3 for 3.
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Old 22nd August 2010, 08:09 PM   #157
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The cult pf personality that surrounds Gimlin and the way his worshippers glorify him in Kim Jong Il fashion is just creepy. They list these crazy accomplishments of the man as though somebody might not check. 155-0 boxing champion record? That's flawless! Absolutely perfect. I checked various boxing record websites - no Gimlin in them. And how does a white guy who is 1/4 native who used to be a bartender and used car salesman end up as a Chiricahua elder? Whaaa?? And I can't find any mention anywhere of major rodeo riding acheivements to justify calling him a "rodeo legend."

Are Gimlin fans being cultish weirdos making stuff up to lavish their icon, or is this from Gimlin's mouth?
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 22nd August 2010, 10:21 PM   #158
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I can't remember where I read it, but I am pretty sure that Gimlin was a boxer in the army and that was his record while in the military. I think it was feather lightweight, but I don't know why that sticks in my mind.

I do know, since my daughter in law is part native american, that a lot of tribes consider you Indian if you are 1/16th. So 1/4th is a quite a bit.
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Old 22nd August 2010, 10:30 PM   #159
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Manzer, you read that Patterson boxed in the Army, which he did while stationed in Germany. Also, it's not about whether Gimlin is considered native by natives. It's about him being a Chiricahua Apache elder - a position of significance and importance. How and when did Gimlin become an acknowledged elder?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 22nd August 2010, 11:49 PM   #160
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I have no clue about the Chiricahua Apache, you would have to ask them which seems pretty simple. They would know who their elders are or not. Email them?
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